Dismantling the allegation that we're pro-suicide.

[Hollowillow]

You all helped me too. The psych ward threated me like such a inhuman problem that I did a suicide marathon 5 times in 2 weeks when I got out.

 

[voc_89]

most members i have interacted with have always been pro-choice. U do u. Not encouraging nor discouraging anything. We hear u. U do whats best. We respect your decision. What more can you want when u a person in a world with an ideology that everyone hates. So u toe the line. Its only here u can be yourself. This forum is so far from being pro-suicide. They only say this to try to cancel u guys. But, like others, i wouldn't be able to say Happy 2026 if I didn't join this forum. I can't remember the exact year (either 2022 or 2023) but I was 100% going to be another statistic. But the members on this forum saved me.

 

[tzon]

IDK if this has been pointed out already because I only read the first post, but the first article linked on here is broken.

The CTV News site seems to have modified the URL format of their articles. The original post in this thread still links to the old one, which tries to redirect you to the new, correct article link, but fails to do so in this case, as the very last dash in the link it directs you to ("u-k/") should not be there.

Tagging @RainAndSadness to try to bring it to their attention and also thank them for the post.

 

[whocaresnobodycares]

I've never talked about suicide to anybody, let alone ADVOCATED it, let alone ADVOCATED it FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

If someone enjoys life, I can't relate to them, I do not AT ALL FUNCTION cognitively like them, but awesome for them.

If somebody's so blind to reality to think that "life is always worth living for EVVVVERYONE," then that's THEIR ignorance-problem and I'd never waste my breath arguing with them, anymore than I would a religious or political zealot who doesn't UNDERSTAND ANYTHING in actual reality.

 

[k_eire818]

More promo in the name of "warning" people

 

[purpp37]

I'm pro suicide. I don't wish for things to get better and if people want to die I'm all for it because I want to as well

 

[TheTwelthRootOfTwo]

I've been perusing this site for years, before signing up; and I've never once seen anyone "encourage" or "entice" someone into suicide. There is a difference between encouraging something, and simply NOT discouraging it.

From my personal experience, only posting on here for 8 days, I have felt better, being able to express myself; and just have people say, "I get that". It's such a relief.

There is nothing more horrifying than being in a state where you've literally tried so much and then decide to try and take your own life, and then have someone say, "It gets better", or, "You just need to try XYZ". As if I haven't tried those things? As if I just decided one day to kill myself for kicks and giggles?

After all my years, having dealt with the psych system, I've come to realize that the entire industry is skewed to some degree or another. It's all based on observation, not experience. Not to mention the pure subjectivity behind most of it.

I guarantee, if EVERY psych professional on earth was to experience the level of pain/agony that it takes to bring someone low enough to want to bump themselves off; there would be a major overhaul to the entire mental health industrial complex over night!

As a side note: I don't believe they will ever solve the problem because the mind is a Spiritual thing and they are trying to solve it via physical means. That's just my humble opinion, though.

 

[sashaisalone]

This is pretty lengthy, so I started skimming and trying to pick up key ideas/concepts towards the end. I'll be responding to what I perceive the overall philosophy here to be, and how such a forum could justify its existence.

My therapist herself has expressed a somewhat libertarian outlook on suicide and personal autonomy. She ofc, is still obligated to report/break confidentiality if I express myself to be an imminent danger to myself. On the framing of "pro-life" vs "pro-choice" vs "pro-suicide" as vernacular on this website, I suppose I'm about as pro suicide as I am pro abortion since these are such apt analogies. I'm pro choice, but there's probably many instances where the death of a human being is immoral, but how much should the state have the power to intervene?

My most confident stance on abortion is that during the first couple trimesters, and thus prior to the advancing fetal stage, there should be no state restrictions whatsoever. However I do strongly question the moral legitimacy of someone electively aborting a viable fetus when there isn't a health concern to the prospective mother nor baby. What the state's involvement in such a decision is something I'm agnostic to. I'm both very fearful of laws governing late term abortions causing more harm than good, and I know that late stage/third trimester abortions are almost never done just for the hell of it without moral consideration. The mother has already bought a crib and either already decided, or is thinking about the name of the child they want. They'll mourn the loss of their child whom they're only removing because something has gone wrong, and she fears for her own life or thinks the life of her child is doomed.

Similarly, I think about the name of this forum "sanctioned-suicide". Ideally, I believe that's how suicide should be permitted in a liberal society, with state regulation and guard rails to make sure that this person is acting of sound mind, or is capable of informed consent to euthanasia if medical professionals actively assist. I think again about the "pro-life" vs "pro-choice" framing on the issue of suicide. As someone who is transsexual, I also think similarly about undergoing gender transition medically, and how serious of a decision that is, but I also want state regulation on doing so as minimal as possible, and this leads into my next point about when liberalism does not live up to its promise of maximizing our freedom and acting as a legitimate authority we consent to being governed by for our own self interest. Access to abortion is something too severely limited and/or under threat depending on the state you live in (I'm American), and there is also increasing government overreach on access to gender transition or a thread of government overreach on access to transition. Do most liberal countries overreach in terms of preventing voluntary informed suicides by consenting adults of sober mind? I believe so.

I guess that's where this forum comes in. If the state is overreaching in restricting human autonomy, I don't think it's immoral to seek out parallel structures and to act in gray or even extralegal manners to assert your autonomy. Previously, when Biden was president, and prior to the huge counter-wave against trans acceptance, I found myself being critical of DIY trans resources, especially minors having access to them in the US. Ideally if you're a minor and think you might be experiencing gender dysphoria, and are considering medical gender transition, there should be reliable institutions who can screen you for gender dysphoria and help you and your parent or responsible guardian make an informed decision on what is the best decision to move forward with. However, if the state forbids such a process, perhaps seeking out they DIY resources and self medicating with grey market hormones may be necessary. I feel the same about abortion. And that leads finally into the real focus of this forum: suicide.

Pro lifers when it comes to abortion seem to believe that abortion is NEVER a moral or permissible option. The overwhelming moral consensus of people seems to feel this way about suicide, and that seems to be enshrined into law in the US. If there's no medical instituions with appropriate state regulation that can allow sanctioned suicide or voluntary euthanasia, then perhaps it makes sense for people to seek out DIY resources if it seems like suicide is their best option and the state considers their choice illegitimate. I remember hearing a while back about a teenage girl who was mentally broken by a rape in Finland who was given euthanasia because she was unable to be healed of her trauma by peer or familial support and mental health resources. If someone who is age of majority and of sound mind finds themselves wanting the same thing under similiar pretexts, but the state would no sanction their death, but would instead imprison them against their will for wanting that, what should they do?

I think forums like these are the only place where it can be even DISCUSSED what the answer to such questions would be without social or legal reprisal.

 

[Nothingness91827]

This is the 1st place I've been able to openly talk about my struggles without fear of judgment. The right to choose one's own path is paramount to me. People say they agree with the previous statement until the topic makes them uncomfortable on an issue they don't understand.

This site provides an outlet that is uniquely therapeutic. To be able to openly speak of suicide without censorship or judgment is non-existent. Well in minus convincing a suicide help volunteer and a few AI's that my future decision is based in logic. Adding the human element to the process of the decision is a beacon of light I only learned of due to the negative media attention. They of course did not list the site, but they left enough crumbs that it wasn't hard to find.

For me, I will end my life on my own terms at some point. I've known this for almost 30 years, but I've never had a place like to talk about it with others that understand.

For me this is not about being pro-suicide, it's about being pro-freedom of choice even if freewill like time is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

The negative press, it's a good thing because it will bring those that need it here. I'm still new here, but I hope to engage with other like minded individuals that understand an alternative path.

 

[Ima-username]

Where else on the internet can I openly talk about these things to find others hurting in the same way. Everyone else simply says ctb and sh is bad go talk to someone like that's a magic answer. It's refreshing to hear others in the same boat. Ss I used to recover by finding others in the same situation . Recovery for some is beating depression for others it can be to avoid impossible to change life events like health.

 

[Oblivion]

More promo in the name of "warning" people


View attachment 192011

what if he's pro ctb and he does this to guide people here? bless him.

More promo in the name of "warning" people


View attachment 192011

wheres this vid? i cant find it

 

[SoverignDreamer97]

All that needs to be said is this:

"I am a people-pleaser, but I cannot please everyone, and can only control the things I can control— which I cannot bullshit a bullshitter, for 'bullshit recognizes bullshit'. Therefore, if that makes me a liability, why should I live?

If I die, I die; though my father, mother, and even the whole world forsake me, the Lord will bring me up. (Esther 4:11, Psalm 27:10)"

For Suncha Ferriera from the Victus Group always said, "you can't please everyone; control the things you can control." (Matthew 13:12)

 

[RadiantNumber]

I am wondering if this witch-hunting ended for good (hope so) or it is just silence before storm (I hope not)

 

[Pluto]

 

[PoppyBlack]

Good evening SS.

Thanks for being here.

I was wanting to make a donation to SS in appreciation for keeping me alive longer and so far.

I haven't yet donated because SS's options are all rather bit-coiny and cryptoesque and that is very alien to me. I rummaged about to find a normal way to send you some money and came across Tony Smith and Angus Crawford's BBC article(s).

I would like to chat with them about why I wish to donate. It would be a small effort to advocate for brilliants in bleak blackness.

For me, my dabbles in deading me, cannot possibly be encouraged facilitated by a tickle around a method. Our minds are made up and only very familiars can care us down to gentlies.

Just me. Poppy.

 

[red24]

This site is not prosuicide because it is next to impossible to find reliable information about suicide here. Researching this topic here is is akin to being a 3rd grade pupil and attending the Differential Geometry class at the Faculty of Mathematics. You re better off reading The Financial Times for fun and just figuring out yourself how to kill yourself, if this be your will.
Ditto.

 

[princess_fairy]

Most members who have been active in this forum for a while know that the media has blatantly misrepresented the purpose and philosophy of this forum for years. For example, let's take a look at these articles here.

'This is horrifying': How a pro-suicide forum encourages sodium nitrite use in Canada, U.K.

Although Mississauga man Kenneth Law currently faces criminal charges for allegedly selling sodium nitrite and other lethal supplies for the purpose of self-harm, one issue that remains unresolved is the manner through which many of Law’s alleged customers appear to have found him and his...

toronto.ctvnews.ca

There is a pro-suicide website linked to deaths in Australia. Getting it shut down is not so simple

There's been a spike in deaths in Australia linked to a lethal substance frequently discussed on the offshore forum. Some of those who've died spent time on the site, which experts say has guided suicidal people toward death instead of away from it.

www.abc.net.au

The titles already give it away and contribute a lot to the public opinion that we are "pro-suicide".

We're more than just a "pro-suicide" forum as the media likes to smear us, very often implying we're some kind of cult. We're a very diverse community with thousands of members, with most of them struggling to the extent that they think about suicide, some more than others, and that results in a wide variety of content, from conversations about recovery and life to discussions around suicide and the right to die. And yes, I strictly reject the claim that we are "pro-suicide," people in our forum recover all the time and when they announce they're doing better, we cheer them on in this community. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] This is just a small selection of threads I've found by doing a 5 minute search on this forum and all of them are members announcing their departure because they found something to live for and in some cases, our community directly contributed to that change. For example, here are two specific threads where members of the forum specifically point out this community has contributed to their recovery, again - with nothing but positive feedback under these threads. Nobody is telling them to change their mind, nobody is encouraging suicide, nobody is frowing upon their decision. It's nothing but compassion and acceptance for someone's decision. This is not pro-suicide. This is pro-choice.

not suicidal anymore :( goodbye thread

I realised I actually got to the point where I don’t feel like I belong here anymore. I don’t feel the need to die as much as I did. It feels incredibly weird and wrong as I really thought this was what I actually wanted really bad and that there is no chance that it would ever change. And here...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I'm leaving this site

I think my recovery is going well so I'm going to leave this website for now. I found an amazing person who I love very much, she managed to heal me in ways i didn't think were possible. We spent Valentines Day together and i think i finally want to live. This recovery section really helped me a...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Okay. And there is not one single case that I'm aware of, where someone reported significant improvement of their situation, which then resulted in an overhelmingly negative response to that thread. It just doesn't happen. I gave the examples above. If you can prove me wrong, do it. There are so many threads of people basically announcing 'hey, I'm doing better, SaSu helped me through that journey and I'm going to leave this forum now to enjoy my life' and that's a good thing and these threads are always met with kindness and praise as I've demonstrated above. How does that match the accusation of us being "pro-suicide"? Doesn't this kind of behavior displayed in these threads demonstrate a pro-choice position of the overhelming majority of participating members in our forum? This is direct and irrefutable evidence that this community is not pro-suicide but passionately pro-choice. Furthermore, there is not one thing I've said in the last 5 years that would suggest I'm pro-death or pro-suicide. And I think that's quite significant given I'm the admin of this forum, right. I made very clear that I'm pro-choice and everything I've said so far in my position underlines that notion. I have also made clear towards bad actors who try to exploit this forum that suicide encouragement isn't okay. Sadly, trolls with no intuition and nuance sometimes mistake us for 4chan 2.0 and invade this forum with the intention to cause harm. But there is a difference between encouraging suicide and respecting someone's voluntary and well thought-out choice to exercise their right to die. One is pro-suicide and one is pro-choice. That tiny bit of nuance sadly goes unnoticed by the majority of journalists who report on this forum.

The problem is that most people who cover this forum simply don't understand language. The media suggests we're "pro-suicide" - and that's a position that prefers suicide over all other options, right? That's at least how I understand that word. Being pro-suicide means you think suicide is the right answer to every problem, that you should commit suicide if you're thinking about it, without any second thoughts. And that's how we're framed. But that's just not true, we don't suggest to anyone what's the right decision, that in itself makes us pro-choice per definition. It's up to anyone in this forum to make their own decisions, we don't tell anyone what to do - that's explicitly drawn out in the rules. And what you do with your own life is by the way a deeply personal matter, what decision someone makes in regards to their own welfare is not the business of anyone here and anyone out there either. If you want to live is a question only you can answer. Okay, so it's factually inaccurate to report the entire community, thousands of active members with a diverse background and history, as generally "pro-suicide" - as if we're a homogenic hivemind that all have the same thoughts and ideas, it's simply dehumanizing and insulting. And the philosophy of this forum underlines the fact that we are pro-choice very clearly. So again, the constant reporting of this forum as a pro-suicide forum has no factual basis other than a extreme misunderstanding of what it means to be pro-choice in regards to suicide. And again, recognising and accepting someone's decision to exercise their right to die isn't "pro-suicide" the same way that accepting and recognising someone's decision to (not) have an abortion isn't "pro-(or anti-)abortion" either. It's a "pro-choice" stance in both cases because in both cases you're merely accepting someone's decision and action that are expressions of individual and bodily autonomy. You make the decision, nobody else - that's the philosophy of this forum. And giving you a choice to make your own decisions, even when "destructive" (and that's again a question of perspective), is pro-choice. That's the consequence of a liberal interpretation of individual autonomy. And that alone is the determining factor if a position is pro-choice or forced-anything, such as pro-life or pro-suicide. This forum doesn't make the case that there should be more suicides. In fact we say there should be less suicide but as I've pointed out in my response to the BBC, the methods which are applied to achieve that goal are wrong and cause more harm than good. I've also outlined this here in my most recent thread about SN regulation. But I don't think I have seen a representative amount of members make the case that more suicides are a preferrable outcome, we as a community hope that the lives of people who use this forum improve, of course. That's also the position of every single moderator, by the way. Me included. And I would never promote someone to the position of a moderator who doesn't have the best interest of every single member in mind. I have written countless posts and threads discussing suicide prevention and I have literally begged the media to use this forum as a resource to better understand suicidality. But instead they're demonizing us because that's just easier. Don't get it twisted, the current reporting is a mix of both ideological barriers which prevents people from understanding the purpose of this forum but also straight-up laziness, which prevents people from doing their own investigative research and instead they merely adapt the narrative of other journalists that's and why I'm writing this thread right now.

So again, we're pro-choice. And being pro-choice always comes with an accepting notion for the decision you make, right. When I accept and respect a decision you make, that doesn't mean I encourage that decision. These are differences between encouraging a decision or acknowledging and respecting it. So we're pro-whatever-decision-you-make-for-your-own-life as long as you don't harm anyone else. That's inherently pro-choice and until you demonstrate and explain to us why we're more pro-suicide than pro-choice, why it's logically correct to call an entire community of suicidal people collectively pro-suicide, I will reject any article that follows that narrative and this thread here is going to be the standard response to any future articles that calls us pro-suicide and in the future, any questions about this forum can be answered by reading this thread because it contains all the answers you need to know. I also don't take any journalist seriously who writes obviously biased articles and I have no desire to interact with them. I also hope that answers why knocking on my door is going to be a waste of time... right, Angus?

Next, now that I've outlined that we're pro-choice, I'm going to explain to you why it's the morally correct position. If you want to infringe on someone's individual and bodily autonomy, you need very good reasons - which hopefully is a statement that journalists out there covering this forum agree with. And that applies even more so to a fundamental human right like someone's right to die. Your subjective feeling that someone prolonging their suffering might be the better outcome long-term doesn't outweight the perceived emotional and mental distress of the person who wants to die, so their decision to end said pain is always more important than your demand that they should keep suffering. In other words: you do not override someone's lack of consent to stay alive. You have no right to say that they should have to endure their (physical or mental) pain for your own emotional peace, you have no right to force them. We use the same logic to justify abortion, the needs of someone who seeks out an abortion is more important than your subjective feeling as to why it's wrong to have one. And that's literally the concept of individual autonomy and it's the empathic approach to the question whetever someone has a right to die. Relief from pain is a good thing and we need to stop pretending it's not. Of course, if you don't have any empathy for suicidal people, you'll be unable to see that. And if you've never been suicidal, you have no idea how it feels like to be in that position, to sit on hot coals, to suffer so much that you just want to die. That's why suicidal people hate when non-suicidal people speak for and over us and sadly, that's what the media has been doing all along, constantly infantilizing suicidal people in the process and pretending to act in our best interest as if our input doesn't count, and they're showing us exactly everything that's wrong in our world. We have so many members in this forum, like we literally count 45k registered members at this point and it's concerning that the exchange between journalists who want to understand this forum and members of this forum who agree with the philosophy of this place hasn't happened in 5 years. And that's not our fault, I know that members have reached out to these journalists who call us pro-suicide. The problem is, that they're not interested in interviewing people who could humanize Sanctioned Suicide and justify the existence of this forum, as an alternative to the current oppressive approach that's the status quo when it comes to preventing suicide. On the other hand - the exchange between journalists and people who oppose this forum for very irrational reasons has happened very frequently, and that's the problem. There is an inbalance in the research that's done to understand this forum and represent both sides. In other words, there has been no attempt to understand us, that was never the intent - from the start.

And yes, there are some people, for example staff members, who do not want to give an interview but that's because there has been no attempt so far to accurately portray this forum in good-faith and no sign that these reporters are ready to protect people's privacy. But there are enough people who would be open to given an interview to defend SaSu's existence, for example here and here - but as I said, interviewing people who use this forum and giving them space to talk about the necessacity of a website like this forum would contradict the narrative so it doesn't happen. Again, I reached out to a journalist a few years ago, before I was even a moderator, trying to defend this forum and we did actually talk for almost an hour but they never published that interview.

So yeah, the constant misrepresentation of this forum is annoying but it isn't surprising given the journalists covering this forum aren't interested in objective and factual reporting and instead have always emotionalized and dramatized the conversation around this forum by highlighting the apparent repulsive and outrageous nature of this forum or by posting the names and faces of members who have exercised their right to die, as if their implied opposition (none of them have spoken out against SaSu) to suicide has more value and legitimacy than the needs of those who want to die, while also pushing the reasons why they were suicidal in the first place into the background and focusing on their membership in this forum instead to make the forum look responsible for their decision to end their lives and not the real life problems that haunted them every day. And I think that's disrespectful to the people who have passed away. None of those articles are written with the intention to motivate systemic change and more awareness for things that make suicide an attractive option in the first place, it's all about writing bombastic headlines, shifting the blame to the forum. It's obvious. Why wouldn't these journalists want to talk about the systemic causes of suicide, which is certainly a dry topic and instead make a forum responsible which is merely a symptom of a dysfunctional society? We're not the reason why people want to die. According to the data I've seen, the increase in suicide numbers that so many journalists complain about has started before this forum even existed and most members who make an account here in this forum communicate in their registration that they've been suicidal before, sometimes for years - and that's why they want to join this forum. The forum clearly isn't the problem here. They come to this forum as suicidal people because this place has to offer something that's appealing to them... So wouldn't it be interesting for these journalists to look into the reasons why these members who make an account here were suicidal for years, instead of blaming us? It's quite easy, because it doesn't fit the narrative that we're the bad guys.

Another issue is that a big portion of the journalists who are covering this place get most of their information from people who oppose this forum and these are very often the protagonists of their coverage. These are people who oppose us for ideological reasons and push for legislative change to criminalize this forum because they have lost someone to suicide themselves. The problem is, they do not care about the systemic causes of suicide that drove their loved ones to take drastic measures to escape their pain. What they care about is deplatforming the forum because we're an easy scapegoat. And that makes sense, it's easier to cope with the idea that this forum pushed someone into suicide instead of reflecting and thinking about potential signs for someone's suicidality you might have missed or holding the people in charge (politicans and lawmakers) accountable who are blocking systemic change which would allow struggling people to live under better conditions. And shouldn't that be the goal, create a more compassionate and empathic society that makes people want to stay alive voluntarily instead of relying on coercision to prolong people's lives? There is so much you can do to improve people's lives that doesn't attack people's freedom, right. Not all but the majority of those journalists that have covered us and portrayed us in a very negative light in the past are directly in touch with people who are campaigning to shut us down and sadly they refuse to cover this forum with the same neutrality that's applied for the coverage of other, equally controversial, topics. They throw journalistic standards out the window. Journalists like Angus Crawford, Aisling Murphy and Thomas Daigle have never investigated this community properly because if they did, they would know we're anything but "pro-suicide" - as I've explained above - and they would also know that describing a community with 45'000 total members with one word ("pro-suicide") is the most dishonest thing you could possibly do. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. That's the result of listening to grieving people. What they're experiencing is without a doubt painful but they're not good picks for a level-headed and rational conversation on ethical issues like suicide (prevention) and the right to die. Journalists took the input of these people who want to see the forum gone as reliable information without fact-checking claims and taking into consideration that there might be a certain bias, influenced by emotional pain. And that's how you end up with very one-sided reporting, over and over again. Because again, these people have a very clear interest in framing this forum in the worst way possible and feeding those journalists false information, for example that we allow members to use this forum as a marketplace or that we encourage suicide when none of that is true. Their self-proclaimed goal is to make us disappear - that's obvious when you look their Twitter activity and who they blame for the death of their loves ones. And these opponents of our forum are motivated by very negative emotions and that's why they doxxed members of our forum in the past, something that's always brushed aside when these people are interviewed and portrayed as victims in these articles. For example, Kelli Wilson - who is one of the most vocal opponent of this forum has doxxed a member of our community, Catherine Adenekan has done the same and on top of that celebrated the suicide of a member who has taken their own life, mocking their goodbye thread and Lee Cooper has repeatedly threatened to murder the founders of this forum on Twitter yet they're still seen as credible sources and still featured in their coverage on our forum despite the very obvious fact that they have an agenda and they will do anything necessary - literally walking over corpses at this point - to achieve their goals. They also harassed a trans woman who they mistook for me relentlessly. They make very clear that doxxing suicidal people is part of their playbook. These repulsive actions aren't the topic of this thread but it's important to mention that these people are not credible sources for anything related to this forum. I might dive into their problematic online conduct in more detail in a seperate thread if people are interested in that. But they're vigilantes who take the law into their own hands because we're operating this forum 100% legally and none of their political efforts to deplatform us have paid out. That's why they're harassing and intimidating those who run this forum and those who participate as members. They have every incentive in the world to push a certain narrative and spreading lies and misinformation is part of their strategy.

But it gets even worse. Some of the journalists I've mentioned above are members of the anti-Sanctioned Suicide group on Facebook.

This group was founded by Kelli Wilson, the same person that created the website Fixthe26. The same person who also doxxed a member of our forum as I just mentioned before and the same person who said my predecessor needs to get publicly executed and claimed I'm not a human. Does anyone here think that it's a coincidence that journalists who who call us pro-suicide and mirror the "pro-suicide" narrative without wasting any time to fact-check anything are also members of a Facebook group founded by someone who wants to take down the forum and is on the record encouraging physical violence and doxxing someone who committed suicide one month later? I think that's a very questionable connection there for journalists who are supposed to remain some objectivity.

We also made a Twitter thread about this problematic alliance and Thomas Daigle has since left that group while Aisling Murphy still remains a member. I guess some journalists aren't even pretending to be neutral here. Kelli's Twitter account has been banned as a result of all the harassement towards our community and she is actively evading her ban right now with her new account.

Again, unlike the journalists who write these articles I'm not here to tell you what to think. But I find it very suspicious that journalists who have described us as "pro-suicide" (repeatedly) are in a group of vigilantes trying to take down this forum - with questionable methods - and it looks a bit to me like some people are using their position as "reporters" to act as someone's mouth piece. I don't think it's a coincidence that these articles are written like that. Kelli also never made it a secret that she sends emails to journalists, politicians and authorities to influence the narrative - and she has admitted on Twitter that she doesn't care if the information is correct as long as it furthers their agenda.

That's how badly the coverage around our forum is compromissed, specific individuals were able to take advantage of naive journalists and influence the framing of this website. How could you question the framing of a grieving parent? You don't, you just look at the frontpage of this forum and you know all you need to know - if you're a lazy journalist. So again, journalists covering our forum never tried to understand us and why we exist, there was never any investigative research and an attempt to portray this community fairly. It's also odd that they also never even looked at my post history in this forum. I mean if they aren't interested in obtaining a representative view of our community on subjects like suicide and suicide prevention, something that would debunk the claim that we're pro-suicide, they could at least look at my posts - not that I'm representative in any way but I'm the admin after all, right - if you really wanted to know what's the intention behind a forum, what are the thoughts that went into it, how its existence is justified, you could look at my output and include some of my posts into these articles. There are countless threads and posts that explain my position on suicide. But they don't even do that because it directly contradicts their reporting because I've said plenty of things that highlight the importance of meaningful suicide prevention. And no, infringing on someone's autonomy isn't meaningful suicide prevention

And it's remarkable that journalists covering this forum until 2021 made a big deal out of the fact that the founders identified as incels, evidence that supposedly highlighted the sinister nature of this community [1][2][3][4]. You don't really need to do any investigative research into this community anymore when you can just brush this forum aside as some malicious incel trap and that was the framing on this forum back in the days. But for some reason, now that I'm running this community, backgrounds suddenly aren't important anymore. They've never mentioned my background - that I'm a trans woman. There were so many articles that made their coverage on this forum all about the founders' identification as incels but none of the articles that were released after they stepped down highlighted the fact that I'm suicidal myself and a trans woman, someone who supports left-wing policies. They never mentioned in any of the articles that I'm suffering from mental health issues myself and that this could maybe be the reason why I have a different approach to suicide. Wouldn't that be important context when you cover this forum? Wouldn't that give insight into the why I'm doing this? Yeah, maybe if you point out that the person running this forum is trans and has a long history of struggling with several mental health conditions themselves it would kinda ruin your well crafted narrative about evil incels who run this forum with malicious pro-suicide intentions, right. And that's certainly a reputation that haunts this forum to this day. I think we all know why they media has pretended that I don't exist, in the 2.5 years I've been running this forum, they have mentioned my username once... they're clearly trying to pretend that I don't exist while they still harass and annoy one of the founders, even going so far to camp three days in front of this house just a few months ago when he hasn't been involved in this forum for over 2 years. Because it serves the narrative that we're an evil pro-suicide forum and that's easier to sell when you can make an incel responsible for the existence of this forum because it allows you to just ignore the left-wing, anti-oppressive trans woman who has been suicidal for many years, who supports individual autonomy and meaningful suicide prevention via systemic change. In other words, talking about my background would humanize this community to a degree. It's all tied to their narrative.

And no, I'm not saying these journalists are conspiring together and working out the best way to smear this forum. It's all coming together naturally, lazy journalists talking to the same few dishonest people and other lazy journalists just copy-pasting the narratives of other articles. I mean, if the BBC calls us "pro-suicide", it has to be correct, right? And you can kinda guess their political viewpoints on certain topics when you read their articles and some of those who have reported on us have a very clear opinion on this forum, as you can see here and here and that contributes to their bias. Why else would they be a member of a anti-Sanctioned Suicide Facebook group? I wasn't aware that journalists should have an opinion on subjects they research but it explains why there isn't even an attempt to write nuanced articles. Tony Smith also complimented these vigilantes who harassed members for their 'hard work', again proving that there is a clear opinion on our forum... We're the bad guys, period.

And look, it was no problem for me to debunk the NYT when they wrote an article about our forum and just recently I updated my response to them with more empirical data because that's how I approach these subjects unlike these journalists. I don't just make claims, I try to back them up with data whenever possible. I have also addressed the SN hysteria in another thread. I don't fear to challenge the media and confront myself with their claims, it gives me great joy to dunk on these clowns who imply in their articles that we contribute to a rising suicide rate when they're unable to provide evidence for such claims. And there is also data that indicates easy informational access to resources regarding ways to exercise your right to die (in plain terms how to commit suicide) does not increase the overall suicide rate but it rather influences how people exercise their right to die. And it makes sense, this kind of information only affects those who already made a decision to end their life. People think reading peaceful ways to exercise your right to die somehow makes you magically suicidal and having open access to methods therefore increases the amount of people who end their lives but again, that's not how it works. The media always portrayed the forum as the single most important contributing factor to a member's suicidality but people are already suicidal when they make an account - as I explained above. And it's a voluntary process. Nobody has ever forced someone to sign up on this forum and we don't advertise this forum either. Every single member has a feature on their profile to deactive their account and leave whenever they desire. There is nothing that keeps anyone here who doesn't feel comfortable with the subjects discussed in this forum. And again, we see why people make an account here, there are so many people who describe their lifelong struggles with suicidality, their suffering that's been a part of their entire life and failed attempts to recover as reasons why they want to make an account here. All of this contradicts the idea that people are trapped in some kind of pro-suicide prison, where people are sucked in and unable to leave. The entire premise of the reporting about this forum is based on the misconception that people who stumble upon this forum, healthy people with no struggles at all, magically commit suicide because the content of this forum is literally brainwashing them and the data I've included in my response to the NYT or the BBC does not confirm that idea. In fact it debunks the idea that this forum has any meaningful impact on nationwide suicide numbers, both in the US and in the UK. We don't change the metrics, even if we tried we couldn't. That's the reality.

It's a blatant misrepresentation of how suicide works in its entirety. People make an account here by choice. They participate in this forum voluntarily. And any decision they make for their own life has little to do with this forum. They're conflating causation and correlation. We don't make people think about committing suicide. People who think about commiting suicide make an account here. That's an important difference. But that would again go against the narrative.

It's also weird that the recovery section is invisible to everyone who thinks we're pro-suicide. Maybe I'm hallucinating but pro-suicide communities aren't exactly known for their recovery resources...

And none of those articles covering our forum with sensationalist headlines seem to remember that pro-choice communities have existed as long as the internet, as these articles from 2011 and 2015 prove. It's safe to say that the philosophy of this community will not disappear but re-emerge under a different name if this forum is taken down successfully and no amount of oppression and censorship will change that, as long as fundamental flaws in the treatment of suicidal people aren't addressed. And calling us pro-suicide at this point is merely an admission that you don't want to talk about the real problems.

Last but not least, what's "pro-suicide" seems to be highly subjective. The BBC covered the topic of assisted suicide a few years ago and they were even accused of a pro-suicide bias. It's almost as if people who disagree with the right to die will attack anything that's remotely pro-choice, hm? Utterly ironic though that the BBC was attacked with the exact same slander that we have to endure right now.

We're almost done with my thread but I also want to shed some light on some academic research to further back up my position. For example, this academic paper here, which dives into the ethical dilemma of pro-choice forums, looking at both pro-life and pro-choice viewpoints and at possible solutions for the ideological conflicts that's at play here between both parties.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/13634593211046843

And, would you look at that, very early in that paper it acknowledges that the media very often describes pro-choice forums as "pro-suicide", combined with calls to shut them down. And that's exactly what's happening here and that's exactly the reason why I'm writing this thread. So again, maybe journalists aren't really doing much research here as pointed out earlier and maybe they're just dismissing this forum as pro-suicide without knowing what they're talking about or what this forum stands for. I can only recommend to read this paper, it's very interesting and it also explores the ethical conflict in communities like ours when it comes to more controversial methods like train rails due to the fact that bystanders and third parties are involved in that method. Very interesting paper and obviously approaching the issue from an open mind - unlike those journalists.
Here are some snippets.​

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That paper cites a professor and researcher who is located in Canada, who has written some work about suicide, see here.

Making sure you're not a bot!

And it's by far one of the best academic papers on the subject of suicide from an anti-oppressive perspective. Here is a snippet of their proposals. And it's honestly the best thing I've read in a long time. Like that's exactly what I've been talking about all these years. That's how real suicide prevention could look like without throwing people under the bus who sincerely want to die. But yeah... journalist who have no idea what goes through the mind of a suicidal person will never understand that. Here is a snippet.​

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So maybe some of those Canada-based journalists who have called us a pro-suicide forum want to reach out to actual experts on this issue before they just slander an entire community as pro-suicide? Like again, why do I have to read and link these academic papers? Why is it obvious that none of the journalists covering this forum did their research, not even basic research, looking into the ethical considerations around spaces like ours? Like, the academic discourse on suicide forums has been going for a while and there are answers that already tell you why this forume exists and why people use it. Why there is a demand. And the answers aren't as sinister as you'd like.

On top of that, there is also another academic paper that looked into this forum back in 2021 and they didn't find any suicide incitement. They said idea reinforcemenet might be present that's a very different claim than us "encouraging" suicide. They also call us a pro-choice suicide forum in that study, which I think is a more accurate depiction and it makes sense given researchers care about the truth and not about exciting headlines.

https://thesis.unipd.it/retrieve/3f2c4551-edf3-494f-9fc6-ff39821ac254/Sartori_Elisa.pdf

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So how is that for scientific evidence?
This entire thread is me going out of my way to address allegations which have been thrown around for years without ever being substantiated by anyone. None of those journalists have ever been able to back up up their questionable accusation that we're pro-suicide, that we encourage suicide or similiar claims. And that's concerning. As a journalist you have a duty to report the truth. It's not your job to make up your reader's minds but that's what you've been doing by making the decision for them if the forum you're reporting about is pro-choice or not. You have violated basic principles of good journalism and you clearly don't care to uphold any journalistic objectivity in any of your articles covering this forum. In other words: you're bad reporters.

And again, I didn't have to write this thread yet I did it anyway - because I wanted to. I don't have a problem responding to these journalists and taking them apart. I've done it for years. And it goes without saying that I don't take any journalist or reporter seriously who calls us pro-suicide and in my humble opinion, neither should you. They just expose their own ideological bias when they do that. Scientific articles to this day describe us as pro-choice, such as this one that just came out a few days ago. Odd, isn't it? And I also linked to an academic paper that doesn't use charged language, that take nuance into consideration and recognises there might be no incitement but reinforcement instead which blows the entire pro-suicide construct apart. That's my conclusion after reading it but you're free to make up your own mind. I spent quite a lot of time writing this thread and I tried to include research backing up my position, something that people who call us pro-suicide never do.

That was the first and last time that I've addressed these allegations. And I hope I explained why it's problematic to call us pro-suicide, why it's problematic that the journalists obviously don't care about truthful coverage, why it's problematic to ally with vigilantes and why it's problematic to neglect the academic discourse. Obviously, this thread isn't going to change the narrative because they don't care. Reporters covering this forum ususally ignore threads like this one where I directly respond to their claims, correcting misinformation. But I hope at least my community gets something out of it and I'm at least on the record now responding to these allegations. Thanks for reading.​

Yeah, I don't see this forum as pro-suicide at all. People should be able to make an informed choice. My opinion is that people who want to take away people's right to suicide should be called pro-torture. I am saying this as someone who has barely had suicidal thoughts in months

 

[forgivemegod]

Hey, nobody is making anyone use this website

 

[hegelone]

Maybe it's "society" that's pro-suicide, just doesn't have the courage to admit it. SaSu is empathetic.

 

[PnCinSyzygy]

Sometimes, just being given permission to expand one's thought process is enough to persuade oneself of the error of one's thinking.

Sometimes, just being gently encouraged to just wait a little longer is enough time to bring the change one desperately hopes for.

Someone who has made up their mind and is determined to execute a plan isn't hanging out here looking for encouragement in either direction.

 

[andysoongone]

I Think every human should make this decission on their own , and the decission should be respected and Not try to force people into " no Thats Bad u dont want to do this or that "

 

[Estrella87]

I really don't see this forum as pro suicide at all, but rather as pro choice.

Some people even register here because they want to ctb and after reading stuff here and exchanging with other people they end to not ctb at all... While others will ctb, sometimes even sharing their last feelings or experience.

I never saw any thread in this forum where someone is "pushed" to ctb, it's quite the opposite imo.

 

[DriftingToOblivion]

Given the short time I have been here I'm a little blown away by the supportive threads and comments I have seen. Definitely people that want to see us better.

I've gotten drawn into the discussion threads and away from the "how to…" threads so I think there is much more to explore there.

Thank you to each of you offering sincere encouragement.

 

[ctb_warrior]

Thanks SaSu for existing!!!
Whenever I feel suicidal, I return to this community and guess what, instead of CTB, I stop feeling suicidal because this community is so caring and supporting in every way possible.
It's always fun to talk to friends on here. Sharing each other's pain and lending each other's shoulder.
This is a beautiful community. I wish people in real life were this supportive.
SaSu was there when I was lost and had nowhere to go to. If SaSu was not there, I don't know how would have I managed

 

[notthatclever]

I don't encourage either way.. I just tell everybody I hope they're at peace with whatever they decide.. it's their life.. it's nice to have a place to take the taboo mask off and be just really real about how I feel.. everybody gets so up in arms and scared when you talk this way in the real world.. you can't even talk to a therapist about how you feel.. not without them calling a hospital.. and I get a lot of it is because of the law but I feel like the laws were created that way because they really can't handle how somebody feels when it gets to this level.. I mean where is assisted suicide by a doctor like legit assisted suicide when somebody is MDD for a decade or more and nothing is working.. and it's not like I can take doctors with me to work and have them tell everybody how insane they are.. I wish.. or the same towards my family and my ex husband and shit.. cause yeah sure if a doctor saw a lot of behavior towards me.. they'd be telling others.. that's alllll the no.. cops never did anything.. nobody does nothing.. they're not even giving a shit about me being the one paying for somebody else hitting me with their car.. it's insane.. but they all want to bitch about how society needs to come back.. and it's like.. at what point does that start with you.. I can't keep making first steps.. other people have to be bigger people along with me.. otherwise what is the point exactly.. there is none.. and anymore.. I'm not letting them play the crying game and we never saw it coming and we don't know why.. yeah you did.. yeah you do know why.. deep down you know.. you know you're a piece of fucking human shit.. and it's like either accept that about yourself and move on with life and away from me.. or change.. those are your options.. people are just mad because they have to see the thoughts of people they likely hurt or they're reminded of those they hurt and they have to look it down the barrel.. it's not just our death.. we take quite a few egos down with us.. anyways I don't encourage either way.. I get people have bad days or weeks or months.. and they need to feel it out and they feel better.. people have change of heart.. their life improves somehow.. etc.. but if they decide it's all too much for them in the end and that's what they really want.. I get it.. the world is a horribly cruel place that shouldn't and isn't to be trusted.. it's an awful place.. and a lot of people want to pretend that kindness and being hopeful is an answer but it just isn't anymore.. even when somebody is kind.. usually an agenda.. it's to be seen as kind by everybody else.. they want to be seen as kind nice loving people.. and maybe in some level they are but ultimately everybody is out for themselves.. it is a dog eat dog world.. the world is awful.. truly.. and I never judge anybody for not wanting to be in it.. it's usually some pretty perfect republican prince or princess Christian weirdo coming in that's never been bitch smacked by life for real.. and seeing people be openly suicidal and seeing photos of failed attempts and blood and gore and the reality.. is their first real smack down.. and see that's just another Friday night for me baby.. that's chump change to what I've dealt with in life.. this is the easy part.. people don't being made aware of how naive they really are.. naive to themselves and to life.. I'd say quite a few psych docs have found this place.. and they'll be unlike the religious ones or the "savers".. they'll sit back and watch.. they'll study it all.. they'd just analyze.. because they know there isn't shit they can do here.. they'd hard part is just seeing human pain over and over again in its rawest form.. that's hard to stomach for mentally "healthy" people.. even doctors.. because it takes a lot of pain to get to this place.. and if you get help.. well it's not like a broken leg and you can patch the pain up quick and fast.. that's what's wrong with "savers".. they think there is some epiphany to be had by somebody that's suicidal.. and that's not how it works at all.. that's just expecting too much from somebody that's clearly already well way past mentally taxed.. nobody wants to deal with the long hard slow road.. everybody is about instant gratification.. and at some point it's like if that's what you want I'll instantly gratify myself and end all this and poof it's done baby.. why would I prioritize their instant gratification over my own.. when we're getting down to that level of brass tacks.. and see.. then it's a long hard painful road for them.. with a million questions in their head as to why..that's the problem.. they're not asking why beforehand.. not really.. and they always want to focus on the positive and never just the fuckin feeling you're having.. they want to focus on beyond the feeling.. even the doctors.. let's think about happy things and positive things.. yeah I forgot how happy and positive people are the second I walk out of this hospital.. and it calls into question.. why is my feeling this way about my own life.. not anybody else's.. bother you so fuckin bad.. why can't you just sit with the feeling that this is how I really feel.. and accept that.. because it's not like in the outside world anybody came to my defense or backed me up on any of the crazy people put me through.. so I know it's all fake.. they just don't want to deal with deep real harsh negative feelings.. and what's worse is most people in the outside world have no idea I am this way.. because it's taboo.. it's to be swept under the rug.. so you get really good at hiding it.. they have no idea that I've been in the hospital countless times for suicide attempts or hard core ideation.. bad attempts where they drugged me so bad I could barely walk for two days and weighed 100 pounds type shit.. because nobody wants to be around for that.. nobody actually cares.. they all want to be around when it's all good.. and people only wanting to be around when it's all good can't be trusted.. my major failed attempt I was almost dead and a cop found me right before I died.. and when my family and other people found out. Nobody was around.. nobody cared.. it was crickets.. and that's a choice they have to live with.. but they can't say they never saw it coming.. they don't get to cry and ask why and why did she do this and blah blah blah.. and I think a good lot of people are that way.. deep down their family and the rest know why on some level..

Sometimes it comes out of left field but usually people know why on some level..

But my family is far from naive about my MDD and my suicidal situation..

It would just be the public at large.. they would be the surprised ones..

And talk about acting your ass off to hide it..

I'll make the occasional causal joke alluding to it.. but they think it's just that.. a joke..

Oh it's a joke alright..

They have no idea just how nasty and deep dark of a joke it really is coming from me..

Any psych doc reading my work is probably in five alarm fire mode..


I'm a nasty hell of a beast to take on.. my failed attempt they found me half dead.. and I was so hell bent.. they gave me 10 mg shot of geodone and it still took them hours to get me down.. when I get really bad about it.. I'm hard to deal with..

That's why they give me grandfather time of a psychiatrist.. because I eat the young hot shot doctors alive..

And the doctors can't say it's all just my head why I'm depressed.. they know why.. they know all I do is take uppercuts to the chin by life..

And that presents a problem for them because then they can't cop out and say it's psychosis..

I don't do drugs and rarely drink.. I have other health problems that would prevent much alcohol anyways.. so they can't cop out there..

Somebody like me coming in.. it's like winning the cage fight but it was a hell if a fight and still got severely injured..

I'm not saying there isn't any ego in some of it for me.. I want certain people to hurt badly by it if I do it..

I want them to suffer..

And that's a bit of ego.. and I get that.. but I'm at peace with that as well..


Suffering is part of life and mine would come to an end and I'm not saying they never suffered before but where I'm concerned.. theirs can begin..

And they have no idea the level of suffering that would hit them..

They only have an idea of the level of suffering they'd feel..

And for some people they'd catch a lot of the blame.. as for me.. it's not necessarily caused by any one specific thing.. but each person sure a fuck makes it a lot easier..


Anyways not many people have seen my full shadow.. one time.. for real.. an HR lady betrayed me and used my emotions against me because I was being bullied by another coworker and she turned it around on me.. and one day I was in her office really upset about it all and a coupes days later I was in there and she made her clear betrayal known but did it just so.. and I'm sure she saw the look in my eyes.. not a tear.. and just saw me go stone cold..

And see it's the shit like that that makes me all the more sure that this world isn't worth it..

The world only has space for blonde hair and blue eyes to cry..

And I saw the fear in her eyes when I went cold.. and that's how I knew they aren't prepared for a real person and definitely
Can't handle my level of shadow..

Maybe time to stick to their day job and stop pretending they're barred and doctors and the rest..

See.. I was looking at the manipulative evil little psychopathic trait shit.. and that brings something deep out in me..

I'm just as dark and nasty..

I'm not claiming she's a psychopath.. but what she did would easily qualify for a major trait of it..

I digress.. the world is full of them.. and most of them go unseen or unknown..

They charm their way around life just so to get around it..

And then everybody despite all my warnings and the rest otherwise about certain people.. wonder why I'm left hanging..

It's baffling isn't it.. a culture so deeply desensitized to violence.. and it is.. but this particular breed of it and it hurts nobody but the person towards themselves.. has everybody up in arms..

What is it about this particular breed of violence that upsets somebody so much.. they don't care if people hurt or hit other people.. they don't care about wars.. they don't care about any of it.. they don't care hearing how 20 kids get shot in school.. they do but they don't. And all that happens so much they're just immune to it and hope it doesn't happen to them..

And then their complacency only fuels the violent people.. those violent assholes know nobody gives half a shit and everybody just praying it's not their school or their kid..

They know it's just a news story for a few days until the next one happens..

Society doesn't truly hold them accountable or we would have stricter laws about weapons and the rest..

And they cling to their second amendment because they cling to to their violence.. acting like the founding fathers could have ever predicted a machine gun..

And it's always some Christian crazy that's clinging to that very 2nd.. usually.. and they're the same ones that come in here and quote the Bible because they can handle shooting somebody in their property they just can't handle somebody shooting themselves on their property..

Don't you see.. they want to pull the trigger.. deep down..

Society is sick.. and twisted.. and stupid.. cruel inhumane.. psychotic..

And most of all violent..

And they really can't figure out why somebody might have enough and be done with all the stupidity..

Trust me I've done the leg work to see if society snaps out of itself and changes.. at all.. even by a small percentage.. no.. sometimes it even doubles down on their stupid evil cruel shit..

Human beings are truly a waste of life in the universe.. truly..

I regret ever procreating and adding the problem..

And people can't handle were honest about it..

Everybody wants to be important or feel that way feel like they matter.. and they just don't..

Even if you're famous.. your death is reported on for a few days.. and then it's over.. it's done.. rarely thought of again..

All that work.. all that hype.. all that money and it still can't buy you more than a few days..

And then it's on to the next..

But being suicidal kinda feels like being a book in Fahrenheit 451..

Even the mental health doctors try to shun you and how you really feel.. numb you.. focus on only the positive.. that happy.. and there just isn't any..

Most people on here aren't truly happy til they're ready to end it..

Probably the first time they felt happy in years if not ever..

And the doctors are just as bad as society.. focus on your looks.. do this and do that and work on this and work on that.. do superficial things to numb you from thinking about real feelings..

Get a new haircut and work out and whiten your teeth.. and feel pretty.. it's like being in a hyper misogynistic issue of cosmopolitan magazine..

Always work on yourself.. self care self care self care.. always be beautiful.. always be presentable.,

And it's like I brushed my teeth and showered what the fuck else am I supposed to give a fuck about here..

What's the point in giving a fuck.. exactly.. because you lose 20-30 pounds ok.. you whiten your teeth and get that haircut.. and get so over clothes and the rest..

And then they raise the bar and you have to push further.. and be even prettier and prettier and better and better and it's like.. this is all just stupid bullshit that doesn't matter..

I'd rather eat two hamburgers and be happy and die of a heart attack than be some fake happy miserable asshole like you..

You know at least my misery ain't for nothing.. I come from a background of insane level neglect and abuse and it's at times beyond levels of psychotic..

But you see these people do this shit to themselves.. and they're still never satisfied.. and it's like what the fuck is wrong with you..

Like when do they shut the fuck up..

And se these celebrities damn near ozempicing themselves to death.. they all walk the carpet looking like fuckng Skeletor..

They look like shit.. and it's like you're so fake miserable that you would do that to yourself.. trust me.. the heart attack is preferable..

It's takes a lot of crazy for a bitch to make Heroin 90s chic to look healthy.. I mean wow..


Whatever I'm pissed off..

Anyways do what you want.. it's your own body and life.. and if you want to end it.. end it..

If you don't then dont.. but if you're serious be serious..

Either way.. be serious about it..

After everything they only reason why I half way give a fuck about my life is my cats..

Not any fucking human.. not a single
Person comes to mind why I should care about them enough to not end it..

Nobody in my life matters to me like that anymore.. and after how everybody was.. why would I want anybody to.. that would be dying in vain..

In the end it's really is just yourself and maybe a cat..

Or dog.. whatever your flavor is..

But it makes me very happy that all my doctors have to cling to is my cat..

So go figure..


Sometimes it's always nice to even the playing field.. you know..

Don't let them fool you.. they're in a vast darkness with nothing but a keychain flashlight..


As for with me their flashlight just got much smaller.. I thought I'd accommodate my size to theirs here lately..