RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,083
If you're a non-member and read the articles about this forum that were published in the past 3 years you would probably have to come to the conclusion that this forum has a severe impact on suicide statistics, in a negative way. The media portrayed this forum as a place that makes people commit suicide, a cult that encourages them to go through with their plans or a community that has a noticable impact on suicide statistics [1][2][3] - nothing could be further from the truth and we can prove that with empirical data.
Let's dissect the NYT article, the most pretentious hit piece so far, step by step.
They claim the suicide rate increased from 2009 to 2019 and correlate these numbers with the existence of this forum - which doesn't really make sense considering the forum was founded in 2018. So it's fair to say that the rising suicide rate (a trend that started in 2009) has nothing to do with the discussions in this forum and I can prove that. Let's take a look at the suicide rate in the US. According to the National Insititute of Mental Health the suicide rate decreased after 2018!
They say:
And here is a visual representation of the suicide rate. The red line marks the year SS was created.
The suicide rate decreases right when the forum was created, is that a coincidence? What's the narrative here, Megan Twohey?
Sadly the data cuts off at 2020 but this study from June 2022(!) confirms that the suicide rate didn't increase during the entire pandemic. If the forum had such a wide impact on people who aren't already suicidal, considering we have thousands of members, the suicide number would certainly have skyrocket during the pandemic, an event that's known to have a wide impact on mental health, right? It didn't happen. I think most members who visit this place for ressources and that includes guests by the way use the forum to secure their exit in case of an emergency. This can be an accident that sucks out any quality of your life or a sudden diagnosis of a terminal disease. That's why a vast majority of people purchase the Peaceful Pill Handbook, because they want to secure a peaceful way out once their life goes to shit and that's a very understandable notion. The media created the myth around emotional, vulnerable and impulsive masses that involuntarily stumble upon this forum in a state of emergency just to use the first method they discover to commit suicide. But that's not what happens and the numbers reflect that. There is no increase of suicide.
Most people who register in this forum stay to engage with the community because unlike most other spaces, people get to talk about their feelings and their struggles without censorship or intervention here. And that's what makes this forum so attractive to people who value their individual autonomy because, quite frankly, people are tired to of the condescending and invalidating treatment they experience out there. There is a strong stigma around suicide and if you break it, you get rewarded with an involuntary visit in the psych ward... lovely, right? And that's why this community has the capacity to prolong life, because the aspect of mutual and compassionate support, the ability to express your pain and suffering openly and honestly, makes people stay - and it obviously works, as seen in the suicide statistics.
Now, let's address another elephant in the forum. The NYT claims that this forum has 6 million views per month but why aren't these visitors reflected in the suicide statistics if people only use this forum to obtain a suicide method as it's claimed in that article? The entire article is about the narrative that this forum has only one purpose: suicide and nothing else. There is a reason why they didn't even mention the support aspect I just talked about - because it doesn't fit into their narrative. It would debunk their claim that this forum is pro-suicide because we're not. We're pro-choice and we recognise individual autonomy and human dignity and we consider the right to die a basic human right. But the goal of the article was to make this forum look as sinister and evil as possible, the entire article builds up to that by portraying us as some kind of cult that encourages suicide as the only option and that's why the alleged background of site admins played such a crucial role. But that's completely absurd considering we're a community of suffering people who simply want to have a choice in deeply personal matters that affects their welfare. The NYT pretends that these 6 million views represent unique visitors to create a strong need for immediate action when that's not the case, these numbers are highly inflated. I doubt the real number even comes close to the millions mentioned in the article.
Let's continue.
The NYT claimed in their article that they found 500 goodbye threads of members that never posted again. They claimed they were able to verify 45 suicides associated to this website - the forum was online for 3.5 years when that article was published. And that was their big reveal of that article, the "empirical evidence" that proves how harmful this place is. Let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument - 500 threads in 3.5 years. Now let's talk raw numbers for a second to put this into perspective. Approximately 800'000 people commit suicide each year, that means there is one suicide every 40 second, that's ~40'000 in the US alone. It's absolutely absurd and ridiculous how they sensationalised the numbers quoted in the article, blowing them way out of proportion when that's actually a fraction of the actual numbers - for what? A nice headline about that one ominous forum that's luring people into suicide? Oh, really? Then why do the suicide statistics demonstrate the opposite, mainly a decrease in suicide in the geograpic demographic that's most represented on the forum? Because even if that claim was true, the influence of this forum in actual suicide statistics is obviously tiny. There are so many members in the forum who claim that the forum prolonged their lives - me included by the way, this community has a real suicide prevention mechanism that's barely talked about. Again, the NYT article left this out on purpose, because they lied and constructed a false narrative that this forum lured people into suicide that didn't already make up their mind. And that's the point. This forum doesn't lure anyone into suicide. We're talking about autonomous adults that are capable to make their own decisions. People voluntarily create an account to participate in this community. It's a conscious decision that's ususally the result of years of suffering. The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of nuance that was intentionally left out by the journalists that created this piece of propaganda artwork.
And look. The US has approximately 40'000 suicides each year and around 20'000 of them are suicides with guns. You don't need a forum to kill yourself with a gun. You just need access to a weapon and the current legislation in the US enables this method. Give me a fucking break. Half of the people that commit suicide don't even know this forum exists because they don't need it. These journalists didn't fact-check their claims, they didn't research if the empirical data actually supports their narrative - they talked to 3 people that were in some way affected by the forum, putting anecdotal evidence over empirical data and put a dim black/white filter over every image they've uploaded to their article to manipiulate emotion. And that's it, that's the entire magic behind a poorly researched and dismissable article, written by people who exactly knew what the article would look like when they started "investigating" because there was no investigation. The journalists were spoon-feed the information by the people that were given a platform in their article. They didn't talk to one single active SS member - it's because that article was designed from the start to represent a clear anti-choice narrative and throw every single suicidal person under the bus - because we didn't get a voice. We didn't get to talk about the reasons why we are here. Because that article was never meant to be about suicide prevention or... investigative journalism. If you wrote an article about a community, wouldn't you at least want to know what they think?
There is scientific research that challenges or even debunks the notion that the forum has any significant negative impact on suicide.
Here is a German publication that researches the impact of "suicide forums" and they concludes that there are actual benefits of their existence.
Here is a very informative discussion around the NYT story between mental health experts and they highlight problems with the conclusions of that article.
Here is a detailed analysis of the effect of this forum on its members and I think they paint a fair picture of the community, pointing out significant positive impacts.
According to this study the release of Final Exit didn't(!) increase total suicides but possibly enabled more peaceful deaths by giving people a choice of options. I think it's fair to assume that this forum has a very similiar effect on those that decide to exercise their individual autonomy.
It seems that accessability to methods has an impact on the quality and not necessarily on the quantity of suicides. As far as I know, there is no empirical evidence that connects a disproportionate amount of suicides to this forum or "suicide forums" in general.
And look. I've talked to a reporter from Buzzfeed a few years ago for 40 minutes, I've tried to address the questions and concerns of the first article about this forum that was released back in 2019 but the interview didn't make it into a follow-up article because it was never written. Because once again, a headline that suggests malicious incels are luring people into suicide is way more interesting and click-baity than an article that explains why suicidal people voluntarily register in a forum to discuss ways to exercise their individual autonomy. And that's what people hate. This is nothing more than an ideological attack on autonomy and liberty. I'm sure we will have more articles in the future, repeating the sensationalising narrative that's been solified in the last 3 years just to increase the guest numbers of this forum for the sake of "suicide prevention".
Good fucking job.
Let's dissect the NYT article, the most pretentious hit piece so far, step by step.
They claim the suicide rate increased from 2009 to 2019 and correlate these numbers with the existence of this forum - which doesn't really make sense considering the forum was founded in 2018. So it's fair to say that the rising suicide rate (a trend that started in 2009) has nothing to do with the discussions in this forum and I can prove that. Let's take a look at the suicide rate in the US. According to the National Insititute of Mental Health the suicide rate decreased after 2018!
They say:
And here is a visual representation of the suicide rate. The red line marks the year SS was created.
The suicide rate decreases right when the forum was created, is that a coincidence? What's the narrative here, Megan Twohey?
Sadly the data cuts off at 2020 but this study from June 2022(!) confirms that the suicide rate didn't increase during the entire pandemic. If the forum had such a wide impact on people who aren't already suicidal, considering we have thousands of members, the suicide number would certainly have skyrocket during the pandemic, an event that's known to have a wide impact on mental health, right? It didn't happen. I think most members who visit this place for ressources and that includes guests by the way use the forum to secure their exit in case of an emergency. This can be an accident that sucks out any quality of your life or a sudden diagnosis of a terminal disease. That's why a vast majority of people purchase the Peaceful Pill Handbook, because they want to secure a peaceful way out once their life goes to shit and that's a very understandable notion. The media created the myth around emotional, vulnerable and impulsive masses that involuntarily stumble upon this forum in a state of emergency just to use the first method they discover to commit suicide. But that's not what happens and the numbers reflect that. There is no increase of suicide.
Most people who register in this forum stay to engage with the community because unlike most other spaces, people get to talk about their feelings and their struggles without censorship or intervention here. And that's what makes this forum so attractive to people who value their individual autonomy because, quite frankly, people are tired to of the condescending and invalidating treatment they experience out there. There is a strong stigma around suicide and if you break it, you get rewarded with an involuntary visit in the psych ward... lovely, right? And that's why this community has the capacity to prolong life, because the aspect of mutual and compassionate support, the ability to express your pain and suffering openly and honestly, makes people stay - and it obviously works, as seen in the suicide statistics.
Now, let's address another elephant in the forum. The NYT claims that this forum has 6 million views per month but why aren't these visitors reflected in the suicide statistics if people only use this forum to obtain a suicide method as it's claimed in that article? The entire article is about the narrative that this forum has only one purpose: suicide and nothing else. There is a reason why they didn't even mention the support aspect I just talked about - because it doesn't fit into their narrative. It would debunk their claim that this forum is pro-suicide because we're not. We're pro-choice and we recognise individual autonomy and human dignity and we consider the right to die a basic human right. But the goal of the article was to make this forum look as sinister and evil as possible, the entire article builds up to that by portraying us as some kind of cult that encourages suicide as the only option and that's why the alleged background of site admins played such a crucial role. But that's completely absurd considering we're a community of suffering people who simply want to have a choice in deeply personal matters that affects their welfare. The NYT pretends that these 6 million views represent unique visitors to create a strong need for immediate action when that's not the case, these numbers are highly inflated. I doubt the real number even comes close to the millions mentioned in the article.
Let's continue.
The NYT claimed in their article that they found 500 goodbye threads of members that never posted again. They claimed they were able to verify 45 suicides associated to this website - the forum was online for 3.5 years when that article was published. And that was their big reveal of that article, the "empirical evidence" that proves how harmful this place is. Let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument - 500 threads in 3.5 years. Now let's talk raw numbers for a second to put this into perspective. Approximately 800'000 people commit suicide each year, that means there is one suicide every 40 second, that's ~40'000 in the US alone. It's absolutely absurd and ridiculous how they sensationalised the numbers quoted in the article, blowing them way out of proportion when that's actually a fraction of the actual numbers - for what? A nice headline about that one ominous forum that's luring people into suicide? Oh, really? Then why do the suicide statistics demonstrate the opposite, mainly a decrease in suicide in the geograpic demographic that's most represented on the forum? Because even if that claim was true, the influence of this forum in actual suicide statistics is obviously tiny. There are so many members in the forum who claim that the forum prolonged their lives - me included by the way, this community has a real suicide prevention mechanism that's barely talked about. Again, the NYT article left this out on purpose, because they lied and constructed a false narrative that this forum lured people into suicide that didn't already make up their mind. And that's the point. This forum doesn't lure anyone into suicide. We're talking about autonomous adults that are capable to make their own decisions. People voluntarily create an account to participate in this community. It's a conscious decision that's ususally the result of years of suffering. The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of nuance that was intentionally left out by the journalists that created this piece of propaganda artwork.
And look. The US has approximately 40'000 suicides each year and around 20'000 of them are suicides with guns. You don't need a forum to kill yourself with a gun. You just need access to a weapon and the current legislation in the US enables this method. Give me a fucking break. Half of the people that commit suicide don't even know this forum exists because they don't need it. These journalists didn't fact-check their claims, they didn't research if the empirical data actually supports their narrative - they talked to 3 people that were in some way affected by the forum, putting anecdotal evidence over empirical data and put a dim black/white filter over every image they've uploaded to their article to manipiulate emotion. And that's it, that's the entire magic behind a poorly researched and dismissable article, written by people who exactly knew what the article would look like when they started "investigating" because there was no investigation. The journalists were spoon-feed the information by the people that were given a platform in their article. They didn't talk to one single active SS member - it's because that article was designed from the start to represent a clear anti-choice narrative and throw every single suicidal person under the bus - because we didn't get a voice. We didn't get to talk about the reasons why we are here. Because that article was never meant to be about suicide prevention or... investigative journalism. If you wrote an article about a community, wouldn't you at least want to know what they think?
There is scientific research that challenges or even debunks the notion that the forum has any significant negative impact on suicide.
Here is a German publication that researches the impact of "suicide forums" and they concludes that there are actual benefits of their existence.
Here is a very informative discussion around the NYT story between mental health experts and they highlight problems with the conclusions of that article.
Here is a detailed analysis of the effect of this forum on its members and I think they paint a fair picture of the community, pointing out significant positive impacts.
According to this study the release of Final Exit didn't(!) increase total suicides but possibly enabled more peaceful deaths by giving people a choice of options. I think it's fair to assume that this forum has a very similiar effect on those that decide to exercise their individual autonomy.
It seems that accessability to methods has an impact on the quality and not necessarily on the quantity of suicides. As far as I know, there is no empirical evidence that connects a disproportionate amount of suicides to this forum or "suicide forums" in general.
And look. I've talked to a reporter from Buzzfeed a few years ago for 40 minutes, I've tried to address the questions and concerns of the first article about this forum that was released back in 2019 but the interview didn't make it into a follow-up article because it was never written. Because once again, a headline that suggests malicious incels are luring people into suicide is way more interesting and click-baity than an article that explains why suicidal people voluntarily register in a forum to discuss ways to exercise their individual autonomy. And that's what people hate. This is nothing more than an ideological attack on autonomy and liberty. I'm sure we will have more articles in the future, repeating the sensationalising narrative that's been solified in the last 3 years just to increase the guest numbers of this forum for the sake of "suicide prevention".
Good fucking job.
Last edited:
