RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,146
As you know I'm trying to debunk the hysteria surrounding SN and just recently I stumbled upon an interesting article again. So, according to this article, Colorado is trying to ban the sale of concentrated SN.

1706341572944

Okay. That state has a population of 5.8 million. What drastic numbers of people must have used SN as a method to exercise their right to die to justify such drastic legislation and ban the sale of concentrated SN entirely? Well, according to the article, it's... 31 successful suicides in 5 years.

1706341348497

31 suicides. In 5 years. Just to put that into perspective, Colorado had 690 firearm suicides in the year 2022 according to this website, the latest figure I could find. In one year. If we count all firearm suicides from the last 5 years, that would be 3384(!) suicides via firearm discharge.
Breaking it down by year:
2018: 658 firearm suicides
2019: 647 firearm suicides
2020: 649 firearm suicides
2021: 740 firearm suicides
2022: 690 firearm suicides

Let's visualize the scope of the scope of these suicides and put the methods right next to each other:

Colorado SN

Left, red bar: SN suicides. Right, black bar: firearm suicides. In Colorado. One pixel per person, stacked on top of each other. Interesting isn't it. Now, you would think if they really cared about suicide so much, reducing access to firearms (if you sincerely believe restricting access to suicide methods reduces the numbers) would be their first priority, right? Why focus on a method that has merely 31 suicides over a timespan of 5 years when there is a method that led to over 3'300 deaths in the same timespan? That's odd, don't you think? Like, doesn't this highlight a systemic issue in our society? And is it maybe the hysteria of the media that contributes to such absurd legislation where SN has a higher priority than firearms despite it being the main method of suicide in the country for decades? The point is, I don't think any of these people pushing for these laws care about suicide. SN is a relatively peaceful method, without a doubt and that's the problem. Society doesn't like that. That's why they're restricting access because suicide prevention has never been about improving your life and fixing your issues, it's always been about taking away your means to exercise your right to die peacefully, to infringe on your autonomy and to prolong your suffering. That's literally one of the fundamental dogmas of suicide prevention: the idea that taking away your means to exercise your individual autonomy is a good thing because it allegedly reduces the numbers of suicide - without of course acknowledging that having more miserable people on the planet who want to die isn't an improvement, at all. In fact, it's worse because you deny people the right to make their own choices. It's brainrot, that's why we're saying suicide prevention is pro-suffering because you only care about taking away the means of suicide. Suicide is a symptom. You don't fix anything by targeting the symptom. The problem is people are suffering and that's where your focus and attention should be. You don't want to change the amount of people on this planet who suffer. That's literally the problem and I don't know how often I need to say it but I've been saying this over and over and over again in all my threads responding to the media and they don't get it. I'm literally trying to point people into the right direction - without any success at all. But the graph above proves one thing: pro-lifers aren't okay. It's not us that is the problem, it's all the people out there who believe for ideological reasons that prevening relief from pain is a good thing. That's all I can say.

And look, firearm suicides aren't a new thing, right. According to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, 11'414 people have used firearms to end their life since the year 2000. 17'300 did since 1980. So what's happening? Why is the priority on a method like SN? Because it's relatively peaceful compared to other methods and as I've pointed out, that's the problem.

What's really gross in my opinion is how the victims of that suicide method are treated in the media. We regularly see articles about SN being plastered with the faces of those who decided to exercise their right to die with that method - of course without their consent, right. I doubt the people who decided to end their life wanted to become part of a shallow suicide prevention campaign with the only goal to restrict access to a method, completely ignoring that the cause of suicide lies elsewhere. But the consent to share their pictures in these articles is given by those who are left behind. And the narrative of victimization and infantilization of grown adults who made an automous decision to end their suffering as a final act of emanzipation has also been created by those who are left behind and they gave consent to share that narrative - without any regard for their right to privacy. And I find it gross, tbh, how these people are speaking on behalf of the person who committed suicide as if they knew their position on this issue and how the media exploits these deaths for a misguided suicde prevention camapaign. As if they would agree with the notion that reducing access to methods is in any way desirable or helpful to reduce anyone's struggles. It's not. People who are suffering from suicide ideation know that taking away access to methods isn't enough and that meaningful suicide prevention targets the causes of suicide. And yeah that's a multifaceted issue and it's complicated. But that's not my problem. This entire forum here is filled with stories of people who are suffering yet instead of listening to us and acknowledging what we need, why we want to die, you demonize this forum and turn us into a scapegoat. You don't want to listen and you're looking away, intentionally. So let me say it again, for those who are deaf and blind: banning SN isn't going to improve the life of one single suicidal person, okay. That's a hard pill to swallow but if you want to improve people's lives you will have to swallow it, otherwise all that's going to happen is the people who would have left with SN will pick a different method because they're still suicidal even if you take away that particular method. And as we see, in the US there is an equally accessable method to commit suicide and that's firearms. And people use it. 26'993 did so in 2022, it's an all-time high. Never before have so many people in the US committed suicide with that method in one year. Do I need to say anything else to make my point? Does that look like a healthy society to you...?

And who is in the front and center of all these legislative efforts surounding accessability of SN? Carrie Goldberg, the white knight for everyone who hates SN.

1706345872329

1706345906145

I already talked about that lawyer in my thread discussing the outcome of the Amazon lawsuit. Good to see that she still cares about the real issues, huh? No, I guess pushing for more restrictive gun laws is too much work for her - which is what she should be doing if she really cared about suicide, right? And again, just for you, Carrie Goldberg, reducing access to a method doesn't do anything if you don't fix the underlying causes of suicide. If you ban SN, people will pick a different method. If you ban firearms, people will pick a different method. You don't improve society if you legislate away the symptoms. It doesn't work like that. But sure, keep wasting money and time to virtue signal to your Twitter crowd how you're fighting the good fight tackling a niche suicide method. What you're actually targeting though is the individual autonomy of mentally competent adults. Congratulations.

So yeah, what's the conclusion here? It's a new year and nothing has changed. Wonderful.
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
11,436
Firearms will never be banned in the US - it's the "wild west", still.
 
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R

rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,777
So true! This is never about suicide prevention but about taking away the more peaceful methods until people are left wtth a less reliable painful/uncomfortable methods that would trap them in this existence. I think the US would rather drink SN than ban firearms. 31 to 3384 is crazy! If that doesn't show them it's not about denying methods, I don't know what will.
 
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ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
5,100
Touché. Suicide prevention was never about caring for those who have struggled so much in life to be suicidal. Suicide prevention is all about trying to make people live via deterrence by restricting access to peaceful methods and hoping that people will magically enjoy living again whilst doing nothing to ensure that it actually happens. Because, if people are forced to live on, they have time to think about life and magically appreciate it again, right? That's their way of thinking and it's more poisonous than SN; hopefully there comes a time where access to a peaceful suicide method will be a right for people. Unfortunately, such a thing won't ever happen in our lifetime but maybe a different generation will be fortunate
 
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S

SVEN

Enlightened
Apr 3, 2023
1,714
Like a voice in the wilderness speaking truth, R & S.
 
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Seered Doom

Seered Doom

A nihilist going through an unrelinquished Hell
Sep 9, 2023
911
This is why the US is shit, R&S. I say it many a time before and I'll do it again; the hypocrisy with guns and other methods of death is astounding.
 
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trashhologram

trashhologram

⚰ Baby, let me decompose ⚰
Dec 15, 2023
359
That's 6,2 SN suicides a year. What a lousy excuse to ban SN. And banning something just doesn't work; if there's a demand for a banned substance there will be people who sell that. Like drugs. They're illegal yet many, many people use them. And while we're at it, why not ban all suicide methods? Let's ban guns, high places, cars, trains, ropes, knives, anything sharp... Let's ban everything that can kill a person 😂
 
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sanction

sanction

sanctioned
Mar 15, 2019
444
I do believe from a government's perspective, it makes sense to start banning SN early, even though death numbers are still low. Because SN does hold a powerful potential to grow into much bigger number of users, so the logical step is to put it under control before things get too wild

With the internet and smart phones today, there are endless amounts of forums, apps, private chat rooms, underground communities, etc. (very huge number, will only grow non-stop each day) where anyone worldwide can connect under the radar

So once SN becomes known its an easy, cheap, and convenient way to CTB, it may eventually spread quick like fire, reaching a point where its out of control, like other drugs (cocaine, etc.)

Teens and youths may start talking about it and spread this information on different chat groups & communities, which is a big concern for governments. Will also lead to many people jumping into this "business", and begin sourcing their own private suppliers (or even try making it themselves) to sell for profit. Corrupted individuals may even sell fake SN, just like how many street drugs are secretly laced with fentanyl, etc.

This will eventually cause huge headaches and millions of dollars, to have large numbers of police and customs to stress about it across the country (or globally), and affect hospitals too, as more people begin to consume SN in different creative ways

With the increasing amount of mental illness/ depression, SN will eventually get out of control if it becomes popular across the internet. So is a nightmare for governments and authorities. They want to prevent it while still early
 
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thetruetato

thetruetato

UwU~
Jan 1, 2024
139
As you know I'm trying to debunk the hysteria surrounding SN and just recently I stumbled upon an interesting article again. So, according to this article, Colorado is trying to ban the sale of concentrated SN.

View attachment 127516

Okay. That state has a population of 5.8 million. What drastic numbers of people must have used SN as a method to exercise their right to die to justify such drastic legislation and ban the sale of concentrated SN entirely? Well, according to the article, it's... 31 successful suicides in 5 years.

View attachment 127515

31 suicides. In 5 years. Just to put that into perspective, Colorado had 690 firearm suicides in the year 2022 according to this website, the latest figure I could find. In one year. If we count all firearm suicides from the last 5 years, that would be 3384(!) suicides via firearm discharge.
Breaking it down by year:
2018: 658 firearm suicides
2019: 647 firearm suicides
2020: 649 firearm suicides
2021: 740 firearm suicides
2022: 690 firearm suicides

Let's visualize the scope of the scope of these suicides and put the methods right next to each other:

View attachment 127524

Left, red bar: SN suicides. Right, black bar: firearm suicides. In Colorado. One pixel per person, stacked on top of each other. Interesting isn't it. Now, you would think if they really cared about suicide so much, reducing access to firearms (if you sincerely believe restricting access to suicide methods reduces the numbers) would be their first priority, right? Why focus on a method that has merely 31 suicides over a timespan of 5 years when there is a method that led to over 3'300 deaths in the same timespan? That's odd, don't you think? Like, doesn't this highlight a systemic issue in our society? And is it maybe the hysteria of the media that contributes to such absurd legislation where SN has a higher priority than firearms despite it being the main method of suicide in the country for decades? The point is, I don't think any of these people pushing for these laws care about suicide. SN is a relatively peaceful method, without a doubt and that's the problem. Society doesn't like that. That's why they're restricting access because suicide prevention has never been about improving your life and fixing your issues, it's always been about taking away your means to exercise your right to die peacefully, to infringe on your autonomy and to prolong your suffering. That's literally one of the fundamental dogmas of suicide prevention: the idea that taking away your means to exercise your individual autonomy is a good thing because it allegedly reduces the numbers of suicide - without of course acknowledging that having more miserable people on the planet who want to die isn't an improvement, at all. In fact, it's worse because you deny people the right to make their own choices. It's brainrot, that's why we're saying suicide prevention is pro-suffering because you only care about taking away the means of suicide. Suicide is a symptom. You don't fix anything by targeting the symptom. The problem is people are suffering and that's where your focus and attention should be. You don't want to change the amount of people on this planet who suffer. That's literally the problem and I don't know how often I need to say it but I've been saying this over and over and over again in all my threads responding to the media and they don't get it. I'm literally trying to point people into the right direction - without any success at all. But the graph above proves one thing: pro-lifers aren't okay. It's not us that is the problem, it's all the people out there who believe for ideological reasons that prevening relief from pain is a good thing. That's all I can say.

And look, firearm suicides aren't a new thing, right. According to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, 11'414 people have used firearms to end their life since the year 2000. 17'300 did since 1980. So what's happening? Why is the priority on a method like SN? Because it's relatively peaceful compared to other methods and as I've pointed out, that's the problem.

What's really gross in my opinion is how the victims of that suicide method are treated in the media. We regularly see articles about SN being plastered with the faces of those who decided to exercise their right to die with that method - of course without their consent, right. I doubt the people who decided to end their life wanted to become part of a shallow suicide prevention campaign with the only goal to restrict access to a method, completely ignoring that the cause of suicide lies elsewhere. But the consent to share their pictures in these articles is given by those who are left behind. And the narrative of victimization and infantilization of grown adults who made an automous decision to end their suffering as a final act of emanzipation has also been created by those who are left behind and they gave consent to share that narrative - without any regard for their right to privacy. And I find it gross, tbh, how these people are speaking on behalf of the person who committed suicide as if they knew their position on this issue and how the media exploits these deaths for a misguided suicde prevention camapaign. As if they would agree with the notion that reducing access to methods is in any way desirable or helpful to reduce anyone's struggles. It's not. People who are suffering from suicide ideation know that taking away access to methods isn't enough and that meaningful suicide prevention targets the causes of suicide. And yeah that's a multifaceted issue and it's complicated. But that's not my problem. This entire forum here is filled with stories of people who are suffering yet instead of listening to us and acknowledging what we need, why we want to die, you demonize this forum and turn us into a scapegoat. You don't want to listen and you're looking away, intentionally. So let me say it again, for those who are deaf and blind: banning SN isn't going to improve the life of one single suicidal person, okay. That's a hard pill to swallow but if you want to improve people's lives you will have to swallow it, otherwise all that's going to happen is the people who would have left with SN will pick a different method because they're still suicidal even if you take away that particular method. And as we see, in the US there is an equally accessable method to commit suicide and that's firearms. And people use it. 26'993 did so in 2022, it's an all-time high. Never before have so many people in the US committed suicide with that method in one year. Do I need to say anything else to make my point? Does that look like a healthy society to you...?

And who is in the front and center of all these legislative efforts surounding accessability of SN? Carrie Goldberg, the white knight for everyone who hates SN.

View attachment 127518

View attachment 127519

I already talked about that lawyer in my thread discussing the outcome of the Amazon lawsuit. Good to see that she still cares about the real issues, huh? No, I guess pushing for more restrictive gun laws is too much work for her - which is what she should be doing if she really cared about suicide, right? And again, just for you, Carrie Goldberg, reducing access to a method doesn't do anything if you don't fix the underlying causes of suicide. If you ban SN, people will pick a different method. If you ban firearms, people will pick a different method. You don't improve society if you legislate away the symptoms. It doesn't work like that. But sure, keep wasting money and time to virtue signal to your Twitter crowd how you're fighting the good fight tackling a niche suicide method. What you're actually targeting though is the individual autonomy of mentally competent adults. Congratulations.

So yeah, what's the conclusion here? It's a new year and nothing has changed. Wonderful.
Taking away the ability to die peacefully will just result in people ending their pain slowly and painfully. It's so weird how people aren't able to see this and simply try to silence anybody who says otherwise.
 
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dinosavr

dinosavr

and if i’m turning blue, please, don’t save me 🌛
Dec 14, 2023
696
I never even looked at it that way… It's crazy how much it proofs that they just pretend to care about our lives. People can read an article about it being banned and think it's a great idea to ban it because why not. And they are immediately glad the authorities did it, they care about each citizen's life. Meanwhile, I assume that even if everyone knew about SN and knew how it works, most people would still rather ctb with a firearm than with SN. And that's still legal. SICK
 
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aslank98

aslank98

Member
Nov 12, 2021
48
I know this is an old thread.

I truly believe the people in charge of this world want us to die in the most grueling and violent way possible or just have a long life of suffering.

They want us to suffer. They don't like It when their slaves have a relatively peaceful way out.

That's why that made SN really difficult to acquire because they want us to do painful methods, like guns, knifes, hanging etc...
 
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falling_snow

falling_snow

Mage
Aug 9, 2023
516
if they really cared, why dont they increase funding for mental and social help? why dont they change the problems in society that produce suicide? apparently those are less important than these.
 
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D

Deleted member 65988

Guest
That's why that made SN really difficult to acquire because they want us to do painful methods, like guns, knifes, hanging etc...
Well it is easier to deter suicidal people from the act when you've got methods that offer a great amount of physical trauma to endure before death, it works because physiologically, it's already too much for anyone who wants to ctb to have to go through all of that.
 
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Relic

Relic

Astral Corpse
Mar 6, 2021
578
Is it about the SN really, or maybe it's going to be just a Trojan horse.
 
D

DreamEnd

Enlightened
Aug 4, 2022
1,892
Lmao those are probably the people who advocate for mental health reform instead of banning guns but at the same time advocate for the banning of SN. Hypocrites

I think it's also the fact that guns are used for self defense and banning them will anger a lot of people. SN is mainly used for meat curing and I doubt those people would care if it's banned
 
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dggtscccvfd

Mage
Jun 1, 2023
563
Lmao those are probably the people who advocate for mental health reform instead of banning guns but at the same time advocate for the banning of SN. Hypocrites

I think it's also the fact that guns are used for self defense and banning them will anger a lot of people. SN is mainly used for meat curing and I doubt those people would care if it's banned
It's not banned. It's regulated so only businesses and institutions can buy it.
 
Kta1994

Kta1994

Experienced
Apr 25, 2019
295
You are correct but the mentality that suicide is bad period in all cases and the reason doesnt matter is the marjority of society
 

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