Resource Inert Gas: EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA

[ipmanwc0]

The exit bag was the first mask to be used for inert gas asphyxiation. However variations using different masks (EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA) have popped up. There is no comprehensive resource that I know of exploring the pros and cons of each so I will share what I know in this thread. Feel free to make suggestions and I will edit this post.

Why choose EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA over exit bag?
The exit bag is tried and true. However, there are things that can go wrong (being made out of tape, relatively thin plastic, and elastic). For instance, the bag may tear. Or the bag may fall off during your convulsions/seizure that may occur during hypoxia when you are unconscious. Or the hose may fall out. All of these are pretty unlikely if you have made the bag and attached the hose correctly.
However, if one of these goes wrong after you have become unconscious, you may become a vegetable. Considering this is the last money you may ever spend, it's only reasonable to want spend some more money to increase your chances of success and give you peace of mind. EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA all but eliminate the above concerns. They will all work in place of an exit bag. This guide will help you decide which one suits you best.

Inert Gas Megathread

What is an EEBD?
An EEBD is short for Emergency Escape Breathing Device. It typically comes in a single package containing a cylinder, an inflatable hood ending at the neck, and connecting hose. It is meant to be single use. Like exit bag, you use it with continuous flow at a rate you set using an external regulator attached to the cylinder.

EEBD Thread

What is a SCBA?
A SCBA is short for Self Contained Breathing Apparatus. It is typically airtight full face hard plastic attached with straps to the face with a hole for the regulator. It works very differently from EEBD and exit bag. It typically has 2 stages. The first one attached to the cylinder reduces it from hundreds of atmospheres (atm≈bar) to around 10, and the second stage attached to the face from ~10 atm to ~1 atm. Importantly, you do not set the flow rate. Positive pressure SCBA uses a demand valve that opens due to decreased pressure when inhaling, letting air from the tank in. There is another valve that opens when exhaling.
It is almost always used as a cylinder attached to a metal piece intended to be strapped to your body.

SCBA Thread

What is a SCUBA?
A SCUBA is short for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. There are differences between SCBA and SCUBA, but they both typically use 2 stage regulators and demand valves. This method is only really viable with a full face mask (2 piece used by divers doesn't really work).

SCUBA Thread

Which one should I get?
There are 2 main factors being cost and availability
EEBD should be the cheapest if you can manage to only buy the hood but it is almost always sold as a set with a cylinder.

I will update EEBD SCBA SCUBA availability as soon as I find out. SCBA is likely not easy to get. EEBD I think is available to individuals. SCUBA is probably the easiest to buy since recreational scuba diving is popular. I will also update which of them you can buy parts for without buying the whole set, since you don't want accessories. Please comment if you know about these.

These options are all similar in complexity of setup. SCBA and SCUBA trade an external gas regulator for an adapter to a built in regulator. See links for details.

What should I know if I choose SCBA?
Buy the positive pressure SCBA, NOT negative pressure. Negative pressure SCBA allows air to flow when the pressure of the mask drops below ambient air pressure. Since it has negative pressure, oxygen will enter.

 

[Falling Slowly]

What is an EEBD?
An EEBD is short for Emergency Escape Breathing Device. It typically comes in a single package containing a cylinder, an inflatable hood ending at the neck, and connecting hose. It is meant to be single use. Like exit bag, you use it with continuous flow at a rate you set using an external regulator attached to the cylinder.

You might want to clarify that while the EEBD setup normally can be sold in a single package with an included small cylinder, the included cylinder is air, used to keep people alive. You need to get a separate inert gas cylinder yourself.

You are obviously better off buying just the EEBD hood and hose (with a connector on its end), as opposed to the whole EEBD setup of hood, hose and small air cylinder with cylinder bag.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I know this is about SCUBA/SCBA/EEBD, but rescue/work hoods (which are also constant flow) could be a suitable alternative to an exit bag if someone is unable to procure/afford SCUBA/SCBA/EEBD equipment or would simply prefer a different implementation. I would also add the Inert Gas Setups Gallery to the list of linked threads since it could be useful for people to see the different setups laid out.

What should I know if I choose SCBA?
Buy the positive pressure SCBA, NOT negative pressure. Negative pressure SCBA allows air to flow when the pressure of the mask drops below ambient air pressure. Since it has negative pressure, oxygen will enter.

SCUBA is usually NP, whereas SCBA is usually PP, so I would emphasize SCUBA in this warning. You need a stronger seal for NP masks.

 

[Falling Slowly]

I know this is about SCUBA/SCBA/EEBD, but rescue/work hoods (which are also constant flow) could be a suitable alternative to an exit bag if someone is unable to procure/afford SCUBA/SCBA/EEBD equipment or would simply prefer a different implementation. I would also add the Inert Gas Setups Gallery to the list of linked threads since it could be useful for people to see the different setups laid out.

SCUBA is usually NP, whereas SCBA is usually PP, so I would emphasize SCUBA in this warning. You need a stronger seal for NP masks.

I think rescue hoods would normally be considered a type of EEBD hood. Some websites that sell rescue hoods mention that they are a type of emergency escape device, some don't and just call them rescue hoods.
Some refer to their rescue hood as ELSA (emergency life support apparatus). It's just pretty much a type of EEBD.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I think rescue hoods would normally be considered a type of EEBD hood. Some websites that sell rescue hoods mention that they are a type of emergency escape device, some don't and just call them rescue hoods.
Some refer to their rescue hood as ELSA (emergency life support apparatus). It's just pretty much a type of EEBD.

The main rescue hood I'm thinking of is not an EEBD, but some of them, sure.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I don't see why you couldn't, for instance, use a flight helmet or a high-altitude full-face oxygen mask (although the former might be better depending on the altitude it's designed for, because I think for higher-altitude systems you're more likely to find PP designs) if you could connect the helmet or mask to an external regulator and find the right adapter to connect that to a cylinder.

My point is that there are other options.

 

[FreeSpirit1Love]

Is

a 103L cylinder of compressed N with a maximum capacity of 1000psi

sufficient to use with an EEBD hood?

 

[BrainDamageFromMob]

The exit bag was the first mask to be used for inert gas asphyxiation. However variations using different masks (EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA) have popped up. There is no comprehensive resource that I know of exploring the pros and cons of each so I will share what I know in this thread. Feel free to make suggestions and I will edit this post.

Why choose EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA over exit bag?
The exit bag is tried and true. However, there are things that can go wrong (being made out of tape, relatively thin plastic, and elastic). For instance, the bag may tear. Or the bag may fall off during your convulsions/seizure that may occur during hypoxia when you are unconscious. Or the hose may fall out. All of these are pretty unlikely if you have made the bag and attached the hose correctly.
However, if one of these goes wrong after you have become unconscious, you may become a vegetable. Considering this is the last money you may ever spend, it's only reasonable to want spend some more money to increase your chances of success and give you peace of mind. EEBD/SCBA/SCUBA all but eliminate the above concerns. They will all work in place of an exit bag. This guide will help you decide which one suits you best.

Inert Gas Megathread

What is an EEBD?
An EEBD is short for Emergency Escape Breathing Device. It typically comes in a single package containing a cylinder, an inflatable hood ending at the neck, and connecting hose. It is meant to be single use. Like exit bag, you use it with continuous flow at a rate you set using an external regulator attached to the cylinder.

EEBD Thread

What is a SCBA?
A SCBA is short for Self Contained Breathing Apparatus. It is typically airtight full face hard plastic attached with straps to the face with a hole for the regulator. It works very differently from EEBD and exit bag. It typically has 2 stages. The first one attached to the cylinder reduces it from hundreds of atmospheres (atm≈bar) to around 10, and the second stage attached to the face from ~10 atm to ~1 atm. Importantly, you do not set the flow rate. Positive pressure SCBA uses a demand valve that opens due to decreased pressure when inhaling, letting air from the tank in. There is another valve that opens when exhaling.
It is almost always used as a cylinder attached to a metal piece intended to be strapped to your body.

SCBA Thread

What is a SCUBA?
A SCUBA is short for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. There are differences between SCBA and SCUBA, but they both typically use 2 stage regulators and demand valves. This method is only really viable with a full face mask (2 piece used by divers doesn't really work).

SCUBA Thread

Which one should I get?
There are 2 main factors being cost and availability
EEBD should be the cheapest if you can manage to only buy the hood but it is almost always sold as a set with a cylinder.

I will update EEBD SCBA SCUBA availability as soon as I find out. SCBA is likely not easy to get. EEBD I think is available to individuals. SCUBA is probably the easiest to buy since recreational scuba diving is popular. I will also update which of them you can buy parts for without buying the whole set, since you don't want accessories. Please comment if you know about these.

These options are all similar in complexity of setup. SCBA and SCUBA trade an external gas regulator for an adapter to a built in regulator. See links for details.

What should I know if I choose SCBA?
Buy the positive pressure SCBA, NOT negative pressure. Negative pressure SCBA allows air to flow when the pressure of the mask drops below ambient air pressure. Since it has negative pressure, oxygen will enter.

I live in the U.S and am trying to figure out which adapter I need if I am using a full face scuba mask. I plan on using the Nep III package with a DIN 1st stage and the integrated 2nd stage.

 

[Falling Slowly]

I live in the U.S and am trying to figure out which adapter I need if I am using a full face scuba mask. I plan on using the Nep III package with a DIN 1st stage and the integrated 2nd stage.

People were discussing that recently on the inert gas megathread, on this page here.
I'm sure those in the know can help you out there.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Is

a 103L cylinder of compressed N with a maximum capacity of 1000psi

sufficient to use with an EEBD hood?

I'm not familiar with those size nitrogen cylinders. Is that one of those smaller cylinders with no connection valve? If that's 103 litres of uncompressed N, it's probably not enough.

It's usually advised to get at least a 2 litre 200 bar cylinder (which gives 400 litres of uncompressed nitrogen) with the inert gas method. Preferably 5 litre or higher. That's the advice I've seen anyway.

Others may be more familiar with that cylinder size you posted, and have a better idea if it's enough.

 

[at_the_edge]

Hello,
I'm in Europe and have a cylinder and adapter. The thread of the cylinder is exposed when I screw it in fully, as per the picture.
I haven't ordered the SCB equipment yet because I wanted to see if the adapter and cylinder fit or not.
Can someone please tell me if the adapter being shorter than the cylinder is a problem?

 

[Shiva_Story]

Hello,
I'm in Europe and have a cylinder and adapter. The thread of the cylinder is exposed when I screw it in fully, as per the picture.
I haven't ordered the SCB equipment yet because I wanted to see if the adapter and cylinder fit or not.
Can someone please tell me if the adapter being shorter than the cylinder is a problem?

i think the only way to know for sure is to test it for leak when connected.. it's a problem only if the cylinder output doesn't sit tight with the inner rubber ring of the adapter though. If that's the case You may want to grind off a bit with a circular saw.

 

[bov]

my understanding is that scuba gear is designed to be used with oxygen--can you share with me what types of adapter and if applicable flowmeter i should order for a standard tank of nitrogen in the us?

 

[Tears in Rain]

my understanding is that scuba gear is designed to be used with oxygen--can you share with me what types of adapter and if applicable flowmeter i should order for a standard tank of nitrogen in the us?

No flowmeter is needed with SCUBA setup, a flowmeter is only needed for exit bag and EEBD hood setup. SCUBA uses a different type of regulator. Here's a post I posted before about the different types of regulator for the different setups:

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

So you mean that if we are rescued during suicide and before complete death, there is a possibility of brain damage due to oxygen reaching the brain. 1- What is the percentage of this happening 2- How much time is required to die with helium and nitrogen 3- Does helium or nitrogen gas have to be...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Info about the SCUBA adapter is on the SCUBA megathread:

SCUBA inert gas megathread

Can someone help me with this? I bought a tank and I'm pretty sure the ball head adapter on the left is what I need, so I went ahead and ordered it. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to buy to connect to the other end. What mask/tubing do I need to buy to fit the...

sanctioned-suicide.net