Idea for nitrogen tank setup, feedback needed

[clearheadedclarity]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking for a while on the forum, and I'm grateful for all the advice and support that you guys offer. It feels like a lot of the posters here are able to truly empathize with the emotional / psychological / physical pain that some of us are experiencing. I was facing a stage iv cancer diagnosis, and I wanted to make a smooth exit instead of relying on hospice care for the next year or two. I didn't have a high budget, but I wanted to see what you guys think of this idea for a nitrogen setup.

I am located in the United States. I had planned on getting a 40 cu food grade nitrogen tank for a local gas supplier, that I recently created an account with. It has a standard CGA-580 connector.

I was on a budget, so I was trying to find a lower cost way of building a reliable mask setup. Here's the setup I was planning:

Amazon.com

This was the flow regulator I was planning on getting. I know that the forums recommend a 15 lpm flow meter, but this one measured in SCFH (standard cubic feet per hour).

I used this online converter:

Liters Per Minute to Cubic Feet Per Hour | Kyle's Converter

Instantly Convert Liters Per Minute (L/min) to Cubic Feet Per Hour (cu ft/h) and Many More Flow Conversions Online. Liters Per Minute Conversion Charts. Many Other Conversions.

www.kylesconverter.com

15 lpm converted to 31 scfh roughly, but I'm not completely confident I'm doing the math right. I've also heard that argon and nitrogen may have differences in densities / weight that would impact the reading on the flow meter, but I don't know a lot about this. If I'm doing something wrong, I would be very grateful for any feedback.

I had planned to connect this flow meter using a 1/4" barb connector to a 60 psi rated 1/4" hose.

Amazon.com

I was worried that the nitrogen gas coming out of the tank would be cold and would cause discomfort, so I was planning on using a 10 foot hose to help warm the gas up a bit to ambient temperatures.

The other end of the hose I planned to connect to this:

Amazon.com

This is a 1/4" barb to 1.5" connector.

Barbs on both ends would be secured with these:

Amazon.com

I planned to install the 1.5" connector into the 40 mm (1.57") filter port for a gas mask. It seems that most gas masks (either surplus military ones or civilian ones) use 40 mm filters.

I know this wouldn't be an exact fit, but I believe this connector should fit relatively snugly inside the 40 mm filter port. I planned on using a combination of Gorilla glue / gorilla tape / mini clamps to securely fix the connector inside the 40 mm port. I believe I can get an airtight seal that won't blow out, as long as it's placed correctly.

For the mask, I was planning on using any gas mask with a 40 mm filter port, like this one:

Amazon.com

I plan to place the mask on my head and use duct tape around all the edges to ensure that air can't leak in. I also plan to shave my head / beard so there isn't any hair that could increase the risk of air leaks. I planned to make the connection from the hose to the flow meter last, so I can have the mask on and breath regular air while I'm adding duct tape around the edges of the mask. I should be able to connect the hose to the barb and secure the clamp in about 5-10 seconds. I was also planning on taking at least 10 mg of bromazolam (a benzo) to reduce fear / anxiety as I was getting ready to exit.

In total, the cost of this setup would be less than $400, which was in my budget. If I had extra money, I would probably use a full face SCUBA or SCBA mask, but unfortunately I can't afford those at this time.

If you have recommendations for changes to this setup or ideas for a different mask / regulator / anything else, I'd be very grateful. I've done basic research into a lot of this, but this is one of those things that I definitely wouldn't want to mess up and leave myself in a coma / brain damaged. If you have any ideas about how to make this setup safer (ie a cleaner exit without the risk of serious disability), I'd be grateful.

Thanks for your help, and thank you to this community for all you do.

 

[Kapsyl]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking for a while on the forum, and I'm grateful for all the advice and support that you guys offer. It feels like a lot of the posters here are able to truly empathize with the emotional / psychological / physical pain that some of us are experiencing. I was facing a stage iv cancer diagnosis, and I wanted to make a smooth exit instead of relying on hospice care for the next year or two. I didn't have a high budget, but I wanted to see what you guys think of this idea for a nitrogen setup.

Welcome to the community, even if it sounds strange welcoming someone here since being here in the first place require some agony and torment to even considering joining. Either way welcome!

15 lpm converted to 31 scfh roughly, but I'm not completely confident I'm doing the math right. I've also heard that argon and nitrogen may have differences in densities / weight that would impact the reading on the flow meter, but I don't know a lot about this. If I'm doing something wrong, I would be very grateful for any feedback

Argon is a heavier gas then nitrogen and has slightly different properties, but nitrogen flows easier then argon

12.5LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~15litres LPM nitrogen flow
- 15LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 18LPM nitrogen flow
- 20 LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 24 LPM nitrogen flow

You method would probably require a much higher flow rate then 15/lpm, each breath you take would be limited to what's in the hose at that exact moment and you would probably feel suffocated. Try breathing from a garden hose which is cut of the end is probably a similar experience.

was worried that the nitrogen gas coming out of the tank would be cold and would cause discomfort, so I was planning on using a 10 foot hose to help warm the gas up a bit to ambient temperatures.

I've had no problems of it being cold, even trough I have a "cool nitrogen bottle". Use as long as hose you need but no need for extra long because it's not cold.

I planned to install the 1.5" connector into the 40 mm (1.57") filter port for a gas mask. It seems that most gas masks (either surplus military ones or civilian ones) use 40 mm filters.

40mm it's the nato standard tread used on many military gas mask and seems to be popular in the industry too.

Unfortunately the method you describe has a fatal flaw, if you continuously let nitrogen flow into the mask, it has to go somewhere. The idea is that you breathe it but if you can't keep it up, overpressure will start to form and will find somewhere to escape at the weakest link. Probably around the contours of the face mask.


What happens after you loose consciousness, you breathe a lot less but the gas is continuously flowing at the same rate and even more will start to leak. I'm not saying this is impossible but the overpressure concern is a real failure point and duct taping the mask around the face might make it worse since it might leak somewhere worse.

Lucky for you I had the same idea you have but come to a different conclusion. Instead of directly connecting the nitrogen to the gas mask, use a reservoir between the nitrogen and the gas mask. This enables you to take a full breath from the reservoir without a problem and the flow meter keeps filling the reservoir with inert gas. The reservoir also enables you to bleed out excess pressure to keep the reservoir to build to much pressure, I use a one way ball valve to achieve this.

This solution makes it very easy to breathe from and it's not forcing inert gas in the mask, also when stop breathing the inert gas will just bleed out without creating pressure around the seal of the mask eliminating the risk of air leaking in. It also creates a failsafe if the gas stops working or runs out, you will suffocate the ordinary way since there is very little air getting in the system if built correctly. Hopefully you are already unconscious at this scenario.

I plan to place the mask on my head and use duct tape around all the edges to ensure that air can't leak in. I also plan to shave my head / beard so there isn't any hair that could increase the risk of air leaks. I planned to make the connection from the hose to the flow meter last, so I can have the mask on and breath regular air while I'm adding duct tape around the edges of the mask

Have you tried a gas mask before? They already are airtight since it depends on that to function in a CBNR environment, at least a military grade one. Shaving your face is a good idea trough, other than that shaving the hair is not necessary but it could make it easier to put it on correctly depending on how long your hair is. For extra measure you could use some moisturizer the make the skin around the face more "sticky" creating a better seal.

I would recommend reading more on the treads here, but my own would benefit you especially. Worth mention the Hood method is quite similar to this, already tested and the same price even cheaper probably.

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

Well that certainly sounds uncomfortable and stressful, I can sympathize you seek alternatives. I'm no expert with the hoods but since the nitrogen directly flow in the mouth area and have co2 valves it is a superior setup, comfort wise at least. The best setup is arguably still scuba/scba but...

sanctioned-suicide.net

And finally my tread

Gas mask with reservoir, inert gas

I'm looking for advice for a variation of the inert gas method but using a military grade gas mask which is connected to a nitrogen filled environment instead. I haven’t seen this variation of inert gas proposed so I figured it was worthy its own thread I propose using this gas mask...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[clearheadedclarity]

Thanks Kapsyl for the excellent advice! The gas masks do seem to have a one-way exhaust port which would prevent leaking, but it does seem like it could be difficult to draw deep breaths with a setup like this. I was concerned that trying to get a full lung of nitrogen through a 1/4" hose could be difficult, since I could only inhale at whatever speed the nitrogen is entering the mask. I might be overthinking / overengineering this a bit -- just a regular exit bag may be a better choice. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Kapsyl]

Thanks Kapsyl for the excellent advice! The gas masks do seem to have a one-way exhaust port which would prevent leaking, but it does seem like it could be difficult to draw deep breaths with a setup like this. I was concerned that trying to get a full lung of nitrogen through a 1/4" hose could be difficult, since I could only inhale at whatever speed the nitrous is entering the mask. I might be overthinking / overengineering this a bit -- just a regular exit bag may be a better choice. Thanks again for all your help.

A gas mask does have exhale valve so you probably right it would prevent the inert gas from leaking. But I'm still not sure how well built it is for this continuous gas flow. Either way it would be quite turbulent inside the mask every time you don't breathe in as the gas continues to rush in, would be pretty uncomfortable and maybe noisy.

A relaxed ordinary breath of air is approximately 0.5 liters of air each breath, with a big breath going up as high as 5-6 liters. If we set the flow meter at 30/lpm divided by 60 seconds we get 0,5 liters of air each seconds. Which is how long give or take it takes to inhale a breath. So being in a calm relaxed position it would be enough with 30/lpm but I doubt one is that calm before Ctb. In reality the flow would be more closer to 40/lpm maybe to not feel suffocated, which would form quite turbulent in the mask and be noisy.

This is not factoring the resistant of the mask filter which could complicate the flow.

I thought about this method for about two weeks before coming up my final design, even now I can list some enhancement for it. So nothing wrong with overthinking it.

If you don't want explore more of your original plan I would suggest looking at the Hood alternative, is similar to this but more researched with cases of successful ctb.

 

[clearheadedclarity]

I will check out the hood alternative! Back to the fascinating world of CTB research :)

 

[.ᴍᴀʏᴜ.]

I am also in the US. You mentioned using a SCUBA or SCBA mask. Just wanted to let you know you can frequently find complete SCBAs on Ebay with both the regulators and mask for around or just under 150 USD. I bought a Scott 4.5 Air Pak SCBA off there and it works flawlessly. You can also find all the needed adapters to convert CGA-580 to CGA 347 which is what the SCBA connection is. Feel free to message me if you have questions. Just thought id give a little extra information on that kind of setup.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Me thinks this would be a good time for @GasMonkey to chime in. He hasn't been seen since Aug of 2023, but hey,who knows? I don't think he cashed it in yet. I don't remember any goodbye threads from him, either.

 

[uzuf86]

The EEBD hood guide provided above in the links is a surefire and well described way for inert gas ctb.

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net