Method Gas mask with reservoir, inert gas

[Kapsyl]

I'm looking for advice for a variation of the inert gas method but using a military grade gas mask which is connected to a nitrogen filled environment instead. I haven't seen this variation of inert gas proposed so I figured it was worthy its own thread

I propose using this gas mask



Connecting it by a hose such as this with the correct tread



Which is connected to a vessel, about 6 liter big or bigger




This airtight 6 liter container for medical use i intend to create a nitrogen filled environment which i will be breathing from. Since I don't want the container to blow up I intend to use one way ventilation valves so the positive pressure from the nitrogen will push out the last remaining air after i prefilled it. Then after I'm sure the container is filled with nitrogen and the pressure is 15 liter/minute I put on the mask and it should be all nitrogen.

The mask itself is airtight, I've tried it myself with teargas numerous time, as long as you shave. It also have 6 straps to ensure it stays on the head and will not fall of or break the seal.The mask have an inner mask for the mouth which help to expel co2.

I though about this method for about 2 weeks now and can't seem to find any problems about the design, any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Tears in Rain]

I'm looking for advice for a variation of the inert gas method but using a military grade gas mask which is connected to a nitrogen filled environment instead. I haven't seen this variation of inert gas proposed so I figured it was worthy its own thread

I propose using this gas mask

View attachment 128726

Connecting it by a hose such as this with the correct tread


View attachment 128727
Which is connected to a vessel, about 6 liter big or bigger


View attachment 128728

This airtight 6 liter container for medical use i intend to create a nitrogen filled environment which i will be breathing from. Since I don't want the container to blow up I intend to use one way ventilation valves so the positive pressure from the nitrogen will push out the last remaining air after i prefilled it. Then after I'm sure the container is filled with nitrogen and the pressure is 15 liter/minute I put on the mask and it should be all nitrogen.

The mask itself is airtight, I've tried it myself with teargas numerous time, as long as you shave. It also have 6 straps to ensure it stays on the head and will not fall of or break the seal.The mask have an inner mask for the mouth which help to expel co2.

I though about this method for about 2 weeks now and can't seem to find any problems about the design, any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated.

Only a small minority of people go with the inert gas method, and the posters on the inert gas megathread who seemed to be fairly expert on SCBA/SCUBA masks etc(e.g. @GasMonkey, @ztem, @befree) are no longer on this site.


Why are you using a reservoir container as opposed to directly attaching to a gas regulator on a cylinder?

Like I mentioned elsewhere, a poster previously didn't think masks like that are suitable for a constant-flow setup; something about a difficulty in maybe keeping the inner mask supplied with enough gas. Though I came across one post of theirs that said if a large flowrate is used, or a reservoir bag is used between a gas regulator and the mask, it could work.

is there any alternative to using a plastic bag?

Yep, SCBA, SCUBA, EEBD Hoods, constant flow hoods.

I was thinking of a diving mask

A mask connected to a flow regulator is not viable unless you use a huge flow rate (to meet the demands of inhalation) or it has a reservoir bag in the middle like Non-ReBreather masks.

Is that the point of your reservoir container?

Your setup, a constant flow of nitrogen to a mask, is probably what they used for the Alabama nitrogen execution a few weeks back, though the mask was probably a little bit different. So, in theory, as long as the mask makes a tight seal, I guess it should work.

 

[Kapsyl]

Only a small minority of people go with the inert gas method, and the posters on the inert gas megathread who seemed to be fairly expert on SCBA/SCUBA masks etc(e.g. @GasMonkey, @ztem, @befree) are no longer on this site.


Why are you using a reservoir container as opposed to directly attaching to a gas regulator on a cylinder?

Like I mentioned elsewhere, a poster previously didn't think masks like that are suitable for a constant-flow setup; something about a difficulty in maybe keeping the inner mask supplied with enough gas. Though I came across one post of theirs that said if a large flowrate is used, or a reservoir bag is used between a gas regulator and the mask, it could work.

Is that the point of your reservoir container?

Your setup, a constant flow of nitrogen to a mask, is probably what they used for the Alabama nitrogen execution a few weeks back, though the mask was probably a little bit different. So, in theory, as long as the mask makes a tight seal, I guess it should work.

Yes unfortunately the great minds has seemed to gone away but left huge amounts of information for us, hope they finally find peace.

This setup would more closely be related to the classic exit bag then the other methods (hood, scba, scuba). The exit bag creates a nitrogen filled environment with over pressure and pushes out any air trying to get in through the ventilation hole of the bag. My method achieve the same thing but using a reservoir connected with a hose.

The advantage I see with my method is clearing co2, which I have seen some Chinese hood having problem with. The other is as long as I am unconscious and somehow still alive when the gas runs out, I will still suffocate because of the one way valves.

The reason I don't connect directly to the mask is the pressure has to go somewhere, if I stop breathing it will build pressure and leak from the mask and may be uncomfortable breathing al that gas coming.

By using an external vessel which operates at overpressure and bleeding the excess gas, it should create an environment I could breathe with ease and not by force. With the co2 removed I could just wait until unconsciousness arrives.

I'm planning the build such a setup to se the airtightness, first step would be connecting the vessel to the mask and breathing until the air is out and seeing what effects that makes.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Yes unfortunately the great minds has seemed to gone away but left huge amounts of information for us, hope they finally find peace.

This setup would more closely be related to the classic exit bag then the other methods (hood, scba, scuba). The exit bag creates a nitrogen filled environment with over pressure and pushes out any air trying to get in through the ventilation hole of the bag. My method achieve the same thing but using a reservoir connected with a hose.

The advantage I see with my method is clearing co2, which I have seen some Chinese hood having problem with. The other is as long as I am unconscious and somehow still alive when the gas runs out, I will still suffocate because of the one way valves.

The reason I don't connect directly to the mask is the pressure has to go somewhere, if I stop breathing it will build pressure and leak from the mask and may be uncomfortable breathing al that gas coming.

By using an external vessel which operates at overpressure and bleeding the excess gas, it should create an environment I could breathe with ease and not by force. With the co2 removed I could just wait until unconsciousness arrives.

I'm planning the build such a setup to se the airtightness, first step would be connecting the vessel to the mask and breathing until the air is out and seeing what effects that makes.

Yeah, those SCBA/SCUBA mask setups that those people posted about use on-demand regulators. They are expensive setups.
As for the hoods, there seemed to be some issues with the lack of exhalation valves on a certain Draeger hood model, but others seemed to work fine, including some Chinese ones. But I presume your mask has a superior exhalation valve.

Makes sense about the potential build-up of gas pressure in the mask alright.

 

[Kapsyl]

Yeah, those SCBA/SCUBA mask setups that those people posted about use on-demand regulators. They are expensive setups.
As for the hoods, there seemed to be some issues with the lack of exhalation valves on a certain Draeger hood model, but others seemed to work fine, including some Chinese ones. But I presume your mask has a superior exhalation valve.

Makes sense about the potential build-up of gas pressure in the mask alright.

The main reason i choose to use that particular mask is that I already have it and have some training in it.

Training dictates that anytime putting on the mask you're supposed to perform an air tight test by blocking the filter and feel a vacuum forming around the face to ensure tight seal. The air runs out quickly in the mask and you start to feel suffocating very quick, so it works.

The biggest risk is making the reservoir not failing in anyway, either by rapturing by excess pressure or leaking in air.

An ordinary soda bottle will hold around 100 psi or 6.8 bar, my container is a bit thicker plastic so maybe little higher. The question is if a singel check valve will suffice bringing down the pressure below 6 bar when running 15-L/M, not sure what pressure is used for that flow rate.




I'm mostly thinking out loud here as it helps my think, so it's alright if you don't have any answers. But I appreciate the feedback so far!

 

[Kapsyl]

I'm so fucking angry!! The company who sold me the connecting hose just e-mail me and informed me that product sold out and doesn't exist anymore. That was the most crucial component fucking hell. Now I must find a replacement or go with a different strategy, just let me die already.

"Edit" found a replacement an Israeli extension hose which I believe will fit, cost a little more because of shipping but I'm on track again.

 

[Justnotme]

The biggest risk is making the reservoir not failing in anyway, either by rapturing by excess pressure or leaking in air.

Damn, I'm also very afraid that my nitrogen cylinder may suddenly burst due to the fact that the nitrogen in it is under very high pressure..

That's why I've never opened the cylinder valve or even attached a regulator to it.

The biggest risk is making the reservoir not failing in anyway, either by rapturing by excess pressure or leaking in air.

Damn, I'm also very afraid that my nitrogen cylinder may suddenly burst due to the fact that the nitrogen in it is under very high pressure..

That's why I've never opened the cylinder valve or even attached a regulator to it.

 

[Kapsyl]

Damn, I'm also very afraid that my nitrogen cylinder may suddenly burst due to the fact that the nitrogen in it is under very high pressure..

That's why I've never opened the cylinder valve or even attached a regulator to it.


Damn, I'm also very afraid that my nitrogen cylinder may suddenly burst due to the fact that the nitrogen in it is under very high pressure..

That's why I've never opened the cylinder valve or even attached a regulator to it.

I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking about the low pressure reservoir which I will be breathing from. The high pressure gas will probably never exceed 4-6 bar from the regulator which is very low.

The tank probably will hold 300 bar during pressure test so if it hasn't exploded yet I will not spontaneously explode.

 

[Justnotme]

I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking about the low pressure reservoir which I will be breathing from. The high pressure gas will probably never exceed 4-6 bar from the regulator which is very low.

The tank probably will hold 300 bar during pressure test so if it hasn't exploded yet I will not spontaneously explode.

I just use a translator, but even with it it is difficult to understand some of the messages :(

 

[Kapsyl]

After weeks of delays and distractions, I can now finally present a working reservoir tank using the parts I listed in the tread. It consists of 3 main components, first an inlet were the nitrogen will continuously flow adjusted to around 20/lpm.

Second the pressure relief valve which keeps the overpressure down to a normal level and stops the nitrogen to become forced into the mask. It also serves to bleed out the oxygen inside the reservoir in the beginning of the operation.

Third and final component is the filter and hose, a 40mm dust filter is screwed into the base of the container and connected on the other side with the hose. This ensures a tight seal to prevent oxygen leaking in, for the other components I used gaskets to achieve the same result. A simple test of blocking the relief valve and blowing confirms it's indeed working. Either way a small leak would be prevented by the overpressure anyway.





As the picture shows I have mounted it beside the chair, the hose is not particular long but this position ensures I have no restrictions of moving my head in the seated position. It also is a convenient place to protect it from damage, it's rather durable nonetheless.

A fault i didn't anticipate is the relief valve doesn't work correctly in this position and is constantly open. It relies on gravity to keep it shut and thus doesn't work upside down. I have fixed the issue with a rubber band and a spacer to put pressure keeping it shut during atmospheric pressure. A more appropriate position for the relief valve would be up on the reservoir but I failed to take that into account.

The valve is mostly there to ensure ctb even when the nitrogen runs out, since it closes when the pressure returns to normal inside the reservoir, it is possible to skip this and just have a relief hole. But I like the extra security it provides.

I will post additional photos of the final setup when I'm at my apartment where I have my other equipment.

 

[Kapsyl]

The creation is almost complete! I mounted to hose from the flowmeter into the reservoir and tried to pressurize it. It never fails to surprise me how little 15/lpm feels like and when mounted into the reservoir it was really quiet.

I was curious how the system would feel like and decided on test it. Keep in mind during the test the pressure relief valve was open so oxygen could be sucked in and I had a beard which doesn't provide a particular good seal to the mask.

Nonetheless I would conclude the test a success! It was really easy breathing in the mask with emphasis on easy, the slight overpressure made it blow ever so slightly into the mask and it felt just like ordinary air.
I experienced no claustrophobia and felt very comfortable, maybe because it was so easy to breath absolutely no sensation of suffocation of any kind!

I tested it for 40 seconds maybe and I felt my heart rate significantly increased. It was only a small test and I need to either change the position on the pressure relief valve or put faith on my rubber band, probably going to change position. I left my apartment extremely happy and it felt like a huge weight had been lifted of my shoulders. There are some work to be done and some straps to the chair but I can see the beginning of the end.