Method Propane exit bag?

[SomewhatLoved]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people discussing propane as a method of CTB by gas inhalation. Basically everything on Google lists propane as an asphyxiant gas, as it displaces the oxygen in your lungs. This leads me to believe that it would asphyxiate you, but not cause the hypercapnic alarm to go off, allowing you to avoid the feeling of suffocation (you continue to breath out CO2, but inhale almost pure propane from an exit bag).

A big problem I see with Argon or Nitrogen gas is that those gases are very regulated and can usually only be bought for industrial purposes in many countries. However, propane is widely used as a gas for grilling and camping and can be bought almost anywhere in liquid form. Google tells me that a full 20lb tank of propane "contains about 18 litres of liquid propane. When propane converts to a gas it expands approximately 260 times, so 18 litres of liquid propane will become about 4680 litres of gaseous propane".

Propane is similar to argon in that it's slightly heavier than air and is an asphyxiant. This website, which seems trustworthy, states that "propane vapor is not toxic, but it is an asphyxiating gas. That means propane will displace the oxygen in your lungs, making it difficult or impossible to breathe if exposed to high concentrations". Since it is heavier than oxygen, it could possibly be useful to find a way to position yourself in a downward position, so that your head (and exit bag) are lower to the ground with the collar of the bag "facing upwards".

Obviously, there is also the risk of the gas igniting, and in multiple other threads propane asphyxiation has been discouraged because of this. However, if you were to make an exit bag and just go sit somewhere next to a propane tank in open air, you probably wouldn't be blowing anything up. If I do this method, I think I would go and sit in a field or some other calm remote place and just look at the stars and listen to music or something until I lose consciousness (which might be pretty quick, with a sufficient exit bag apparatus).

The main issue I see is making sure the gas doesn't run out. If you take the "tare" weight printed on the cylinder and subtract that from the current weight of the tank, it is possible to calculate the amount of liquid propane in the tank. Using that information, you could calculate the amount of gaseous propane the tank is able to output. However, the issue I have found is that there doesn't seem to be any LPM/liter per minute flow regulators which connect to propane tanks, making it hard to tell exactly how much propane you are using per second/minute/hour. I would probably want the flow to be consistent for the minimum of an hour. I'm sure there is some way to connect propane tubing to an LPM flow regulator, but I just haven't found out yet -- might need some handiwork lol.

Edit: I think one thing that might be bothersome with propane would be the smell of the odorants that are added to make it stink so a leak can be detected. I work in healthcare, and a lot of people have "Vick's vapoinhaler" sticks which are sort of like lip balm, but you put them on your upper lip to inhale the Vick's, and a lot of people use them not as a decongestant, but when dealing with something that has a rancid smell (infected catheters, gastrointestinal bleeding, necrosis, general poor patient hygeine). Suppose you might also be able to just simply use a nose plug or something, or both!

 

[Kapsyl]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people discussing propane as a method of CTB by gas inhalation. Basically everything on Google lists propane as an asphyxiant gas, as it displaces the oxygen in your lungs. This leads me to believe that it would asphyxiate you, but not cause the hypercapnic alarm to go off, allowing you to avoid the feeling of suffocation (you continue to breath out CO2, but inhale almost pure propane from an exit bag).

Interesting idea! Some have discouraged using propane for their obviously explosive properties, but that mostly assume using it inside the homes from a gas stove. Using a tank is more a stand alone solution when restricting it to a bag, but the danger is still there. As you said some tanks may have as much as 4000 liters of gas, even if you restrict it to a bag and successfully CTB the gas will still be released making it an explosive hazard. A well ventilated area or outside even would be more suited to minimize accidental damage to others or property.

The propane gas shares the important qualities of other inert gases as nitrogen, helium as it displaces oxygen in the lungs. Unlike the other gases propane appears to not suffer from lack of purity in the sense of air being present in the gas. Most propane gas appears to be HD-5 quality with it being 90% pure with the last remaining not being air but propylene, iso-butane, butane, methane. It can contain air but I haven't found anything that indicates that.



The hypercapnic alarm may not come on, but I believe something will still feel off when breathing propane making the experience unpleasant. Not to mention the smell of rotten eggs as is often described as. I don't have much experience of propane how strong the smell is if it's possible to overcome it. But it seems to work in theory.

One of the best indicators of a method working is looking at accidents which have been fatal. Most of the accidents are related to an explosive or serious burn and gas asphyxiation doesn't seems that common. But I found this case very similar to what you suggest, and it appears possible.

A 22-year old male was found dead at his home as a result of asphyxia. An empty canister of propane gas and a used plastic bag were present in the deceased's room. The deceased was a university undergraduate student and a child of a well respected family. Both parents are of academic education. No psychological or medical problems were reported. The asphyxiation was apparently self-inflicted and was caused by inhalation of propane gas to get "high". During examination of the scene of death, the

Propane is similar to argon in that it's slightly heavier than air and is an asphyxiant. This website, which seems trustworthy, states that "propane vapor is not toxic, but it is an asphyxiating gas. That means propane will displace the oxygen in your lungs, making it difficult or impossible to breathe if exposed to high concentrations". Since it is heavier than oxygen, it could possibly be useful to find a way to position yourself in a downward position, so that your head (and exit bag) are lower to the ground with the collar of the bag "facing upwards".

This is also something I been thinking of, taking advantage of the property heavy gas as argon or propane. If one were to use some form of large tub of container with an open top, you would essentially fill the tub or container with gas from the bottom creating a barrier near the top from air to entering. One could use a smaller container but how would you position the head so you would only breathe from the bottom? Creating som sort of collar in a large open container maybe to stop the gas from going out the bottom but somehow getting your neck through. Creating something like that would be challenging and probably not the project for the average suicidal person.

My thoughts overall is that it could work but it's harder and more difficult to overcome SI than other inert gases. But with accessibility one may have to think outside the box, as you said it's getting harder to get pure nitrogen.

But there are still legitimately reasons for a private person to have pure nitrogen, welding for example. As long there are common needs for something nitrogen will be accessible, but it may be more difficult but not impossible.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

My thoughts overall is that it could work but it's harder and more difficult to overcome SI than other inert gases. But with accessibility one may have to think outside the box, as you said it's getting harder to get pure nitrogen.

That's one of my main concerns as well, the ethanethiol odorant would probably be unpleasant when breathing.

Most CTB guides for other inert gases seem to recommend breathing through the mouth, so I suspect it may be possible to plug your nose with something and avoid the smell, at least mostly. As your mouth and nostrils are internally connected, you might end up smelling something anyways, but I suspect it could help mostly relieve the issue.

A few possible solutions I have brainstormed are below:
1. plug the nostrils with earplugs, or possibly even small pieces of wet/damp fabric to reduce the affect of the smell
2. rub Vick's vaporub or other cold vaporizing rubs above your top lip, to hopefully "cover" the smell
3. chew gum for a few minutes before making the attempt to cover the mouth with a different scent, reducing the odor of gas which enters through the mouth. Spit it before pulling the bag over your head to avoid and possible complications, keep the method as simple as possible once it starts.

Most resources seem to say that if done correctly, it's possible to lose consciousness in mere seconds. SI may be hard at first, but if you take measures to make yourself comfortable, you maybe be able to reduce any discomfort associated with the method.

 

[Authentic13]

Thanks for offering propane as an alternative.

 

[ham and potatoes]

I think one thing that might be bothersome with propane would be the smell of the odorants that are added to make it stink so a leak can be detected.

wonder if there is anything you could use to remove the added smell? Perhaps an inline charcoal filter or something?

 

[mtoro998]

Ive had a full propane tank laying around for months. Good to know I can use this as an alternative to nitrogen. I think ill start looking into adaptars for it soon.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

wonder if there is anything you could use to remove the added smell? Perhaps an inline charcoal filter or something?

Brainstormed some possible solutions in my previous reply to another commentor.

1. Plug your nostrils with ear plugs and breath through the mouth. Most inert gas guides seem to recommend this anyways, but for propane asphyxiation it would reduce the amount of contact your olfactory receptors have with the odourant, as they would really only be able to enter your nose through your throat or small imperfections in the seal of the earplugs
2. Rub something strong smelling (like vapour rub, or perfume oil) under your nose to "cover" the smell
3. Chew/eat something fragrant (like gum) to cover the smell, similarly to in idea two
4. Combine! If you do multiple/all of these, there would probably be more coverage

 

[Kapsyl]

Brainstormed some possible solutions in my previous reply to another commentor.

1. Plug your nostrils with ear plugs and breath through the mouth. Most inert gas guides seem to recommend this anyways, but for propane asphyxiation it would reduce the amount of contact your olfactory receptors have with the odourant, as they would really only be able to enter your nose through your throat or small imperfections in the seal of the earplugs
2. Rub something strong smelling (like vapour rub, or perfume oil) under your nose to "cover" the smell
3. Chew/eat something fragrant (like gum) to cover the smell, similarly to in idea two
4. Combine! If you do multiple/all of these, there would probably be more coverage

All trough not designed initially, my method features a charcoal filter which could filter out the rotten egg smell produced by the methanethiol. The propane itself is odorless so if the filter is effective it should remove most of the smell. I tried looking at specs at some filters but I couldn't conclude if it's successful to filter out methanethiol, its moll mass is quite small compared to other gases. But it would probably help combat the smell, the question is how much.

The bad smelling agent they add is less then 5% of the mixture of propane.

Thanks for offering propane as an alternative.

Ive had a full propane tank laying around for months. Good to know I can use this as an alternative to nitrogen. I think ill start looking into adaptars for it soon.

Please review the safety aspects of this method, letting a whole tank of highly flammable gas in a small area like an apartment could have disastrous effect. A light switch turned on could be enough to set of an explosion, potentially hurting the one finding the body or other residents in the apartment complex. I would highly advise not doing this method inside an apartment and instead choose a more ventilated location, maybe a private garage with open windows and no nearby structures or residents.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

All trough not designed initially, my method features a charcoal filter which could filter out the rotten egg smell produced by the methanethiol. The propane itself is odorless so if the filter is effective it should remove most of the smell.

Are you planning on using propane for inert gas asphyxiation? Or what's the point of the charcoal filter, if you're using a different gas?

Please review the safety aspects of this method, letting a whole tank of highly flammable gas in a small area like an apartment could have disastrous effect.

Agreed. As mentioned in my original post, a full 20lb propane tank has over 4000 liters of gaseous propane, which is more than enough to cause a disastrous explosion once released. It's more accessible than some other pure inert gases, but it is also more dangerous. Only do this if you have a well ventilated space (honestly you should opt for something completely outside, and away from any buildings or busy areas).

 

[Kapsyl]

Are you planning on using propane for inert gas asphyxiation? Or what's the point of the charcoal filter, if you're using a different gas?

I'm using nitrogen. The purpose of the filter is that it's a convenient way to mount the extension hose to the reservoir, it's only the housing of the filter which is technically required but I haven't experienced any downsides to warrant its removal.

This setup would be most ideal for propane, even if that wasn't my intention.

 

[mtoro998]

All trough not designed initially, my method features a charcoal filter which could filter out the rotten egg smell produced by the methanethiol. The propane itself is odorless so if the filter is effective it should remove most of the smell. I tried looking at specs at some filters but I couldn't conclude if it's successful to filter out methanethiol, its moll mass is quite small compared to other gases. But it would probably help combat the smell, the question is how much.

The bad smelling agent they add is less then 5% of the mixture of propane.


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Please review the safety aspects of this method, letting a whole tank of highly flammable gas in a small area like an apartment could have disastrous effect. A light switch turned on could be enough to set of an explosion, potentially hurting the one finding the body or other residents in the apartment complex. I would highly advise not doing this method inside an apartment and instead choose a more ventilated location, maybe a private garage with open windows and no nearby structures or residents.

I will look into it more. I will probably still try to get nitrogen. If I do use propane I might go camping so im not around anyone.

 

[Anon2190]

There doesn't seem to be much info regarding using propane exit bag solution. There are lots of articles online but no details on effects and time, I'm curious how long would propane take to knock you out before you start heading to eternal slumber if you used and exit bag with this solution?

 

[SomewhatLoved]

There doesn't seem to be much info regarding using propane exit bag solution. There are lots of articles online but no details on effects and time, I'm curious how long would propane take to knock you out before you start heading to eternal slumber if you used and exit bag with this solution?

I think a timeline depends on how effective your kit is.

If you can get 100% propane in your exit bag/hood/mask, you would probably pass out near instantly similarly to reports of suicide with nitrogen or argon, since propane is also an asphyxiant gas.

Any method is only as effective as the person employing it.

 

[creamofsumyungai]

I saw this thread and decided to create an account because I believe I have some important information regarding propane. Apparently propane has been used for this inert gas method, so maybe I'm wrong or I'm missing something, but I worked a job that involved refilling propane tanks, and one thing I can tell you is that propane comes out very cold. Thats how it's stored as a liquid, because it's a gas at room temperature. It's so cold that I've personally witnessed it frost over anything it comes in contact with. So I don't understand how it could possibly be inhaled without literally freezing your lungs, which I imagine would be extremely painful. Again, maybe I'm missing something, but it wouldn't hurt to test the propane before using it this way. Like, hold something in front of the valve (not your hand!) and see if it frosts over.