Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[DyingToDie123]

You're using argon right? Welders often use an argon/CO2 mix, are you certain there's no CO2 in with the Argon?

The site says 100% argon so unless they're lying it should be.

It may be worthwhile upping the LPM flow to 25 LPM. One of the most expert people on this site, @GasMonkey (no longer around), had this to say about argon:

"Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA......
There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging."


Excerpt above from here.

This is helpful, thank you! I'm too burnt out to try again today I think but maybe I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

 

[Intoxicated]

"Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA......
There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging."

I don't understand that degree of attention to CO2. You're supposed to pass out because of low level of oxygen in the blood much faster than CO2 would cause hypercapnia and bad perceptions associated with it. Ar may be slightly worse than He or N2 because it's heavier than O2 that can make displacing oxygen from the bag downwards less efficient. But if you prefill an empty bag with Ar and the bag is large enough, then theoretically you can quickly pass out without purging small amounts of entered O2 inside the bag if its resulting concentration is below 6%.

 

[outrider567]

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

Get an oxygen meter for your finger, and test it, your oxygen level should drop rapidly after 10 seconds, but if it doesn't, something is wrong

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

Nitrogen is better than Argon

 

[DyingToDie123]

It may be worthwhile upping the LPM flow to 25 LPM.

I tried this today, felt MUCH much better, no panic response at all, actually felt like breathing normal air. I think I made it 15-20 seconds this time (I took 8 relatively slow breaths) and I know it was pure SI that got in the way. No effects though so I think I'm far from blackout. I don't think I'm in the right mindset for it today so just gotta save it for a day where I'm really feeling it.

 

[Yuna is My Waifu]

I tried this today, felt MUCH much better, no panic response at all, actually felt like breathing normal air. I think I made it 15-20 seconds this time (I took 8 relatively slow breaths) and I know it was pure SI that got in the way. No effects though so I think I'm far from blackout. I don't think I'm in the right mindset for it today so just gotta save it for a day where I'm really feeling it.

So do you just need a Nitrogen Tank, a pressure gauge and one of those new masks they made during Covid now? Could you DM me with your setup or any info thx.

 

[sanctions]

I think I need this adapter for my SCUBA setup. If anyone know where I can buy this adapter, please send me a private message! I found it in one place but it's out of stock :(

Nevermind. Apparently the site makes you add each item to your cart individually or it won't let you check out. Adapter successfully purchased!

 

[Intoxicated]

I tried this today, felt MUCH much better, no panic response at all, actually felt like breathing normal air. I think I made it 15-20 seconds this time

That's pure placebo effect. You shouldn't feel anything specific during 20 seconds even with zero LPM gas flow. This time is not enough for accumulating a noticeable amount of carbon dioxide.

 

[Intoxicated]

Ar may be slightly worse than He or N2 because it's heavier than O2 that can make displacing oxygen from the bag downwards less efficient.

Making a small hole at the top of the bag should solve this problem. And by the way, in a semi-sitting position, heavy gases should be more efficient than nitrogen at displacing residual oxygen from the lungs. The difference between nitrogen and argon probably wouldn't be noticeable, but xenon or sulfur hexafluoride theoretically can work considerably faster.

 

[asian.neet]

Has anyone been able to order Nitrogen online and ship it to your place?

I'm in the USA and I'm not allowed out of the house right now. Online orders are the only way to get what I need

 

[Username1]

It seems to me that SCBA is more reliable than EEBD, what do you think about that?

It seems to me that the SCBA mask is more securely fastened to the head, and if I fall, for example, there is less chance that it will fall off than the EEBD. And also if for some reason the regulator stops supplying gas to the mask there will be no oxygen there anyway, if the regulator in the EEBD method stops supplying gas I think the hood can be filled with ambient air, so we will have access to oxygen.

Also, SCBA just looks beautiful)

 

[DyingToDie123]

Has anyone been able to order Nitrogen online and ship it to your place?

I'm in the USA and I'm not allowed out of the house right now. Online orders are the only way to get what I need

This is why I got argon. No luck with nitrogen.

 

[jackrussell]

Nevermind. Apparently the site makes you add each item to your cart individually or it won't let you check out. Adapter successfully purchased!

i've been looking all over the internet for an adapter for the scuba setup. could you please send me a private message of the website that you bought yours from.

 

[Falling Slowly]

It seems to me that SCBA is more reliable than EEBD, what do you think about that?

It seems to me that the SCBA mask is more securely fastened to the head, and if I fall, for example, there is less chance that it will fall off than the EEBD. And also if for some reason the regulator stops supplying gas to the mask there will be no oxygen there anyway, if the regulator in the EEBD method stops supplying gas I think the hood can be filled with ambient air, so we will have access to oxygen.

Also, SCBA just looks beautiful)

Why would you fall? Why not strap your torso to an armchair (with tie-down straps/luggage straps)? Anyways, from what people have said here previously, you can do the SCBA method lying down.

SCBA method is probably more efficient and the masks probably have a superior exhalation valve. But it's a lot more expensive setup.
EEBD hoods and exit bags have worked for people when done properly.

 

[Username1]

Зачем тебе падать?

I mean, if it does happen. (I know I can tie myself down)

 

[ClownWorld2023]

It seems to me that SCBA is more reliable than EEBD, what do you think about that?

SCBA is better yes, but also (much) more expensive and a bit more complicated to setup as it has more components.

if the regulator in the EEBD method stops supplying gas I think the hood can be filled with ambient air, so we will have access to oxygen.

If the gas supply to the EEBD hood stops, the oxygen concentration will slowly start to increase.
From my measurement, the oxygen concentration increased from 0.8% to 2% after 10 minutes.
So, assuming the hood is fitted properly around the collar area, there's still enough time before the oxygen concentration gets too high.

 

[ItsJoever]

Hi, the PPH seems to mention a specific 3M mask/hood that could be used for this method. Do we know if it works? If so, what materials would I need to use to get it connected to the cylinder/regulator/inert gas hose?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Hi, the PPH seems to mention a specific 3M mask/hood that could be used for this method. Do we know if it works? If so, what materials would I need to use to get it connected to the cylinder/regulator/inert gas hose?

Some hoods have worked for people, I'm not sure what hood is mentioned in the PPH.

The cheapest method to hook a hood up is to cut off the hood hose connector and connect the hose directly to a regulator hose barb that comes with most regulators, using hose clamps.

For some Scott hoods, like the ELSA hood, the hood hose connector can be plugged into a female Rectus 95 ks coupling, which can be attached directly to regulators from some regions (e.g. British standard regulators, like in the last setup on this page thread )

In some regions, like in the U.S., another adapter is needed to go between the coupling and the regulator.

 

[Username1]

Если подача газа в капот EEBD прекратится, концентрация кислорода начнет медленно увеличиваться.
Из моего измерения концентрация кислорода увеличилась с 0,8% до 2% через 10 минут.
Таким образом, при условии, что капюшон правильно установлен вокруг области воротника, еще достаточно времени, прежде чем концентрация кислорода станет слишком высокой.

If that's true, that's great.

It would be possible to repeat the experiment only this time to stir the hood a little or to make small sharp pulls (to imitate cramps), you can see what will happen if the air will not be standing, making the room ventilated or from afar to direct on the area of the collar of the hood air flow with a hair dryer.

 

[x0nSS]

EEBD hood like vizzie with 25 LPM Nitrogen tried two times what felt like a minute each. did not blackout. heart beat sped up a lot and felt the need to take off. Any thoughts?

Ultimately, it's you're S.I. that's stopping you, and the only way to get over that is if your desperation to ctb is powerful enough.
A different method, with a more instant way out, might suit you better. But S.I. will still probably hit you beforehand.

Can I ask what different method more instant there is? I can only think gun.

 

[Falling Slowly]

EEBD hood like vizzie with 25 LPM Nitrogen tried two times what felt like a minute each. did not blackout. heart beat sped up a lot and felt the need to take off. Any thoughts?

Can I ask what different method more instant there is? I can only think gun.

I would have thought you should have lost consciousness before the 60 second mark, going by what others have said here previously, if it was set up properly.
Did you do an oxygen test using an oxygen meter on your finger? Or test for leaks (putting soapy water on the connections, to check for air bubbles)?

Did you feel any suffocation- type symptoms, or was it s.i. that caused you to take off the hood?
The hood method has worked for people before, e.g. this person.

As regards more instant methods, hanging (relatively quick) and jumping from a height would be in that category, as well as using a gun.

 

[bored2death]

do you know if benzos/alcohol can help with anxiety before employing the SCBA method?

 

[outrider567]

It seems to me that SCBA is more reliable than EEBD, what do you think about that?

It seems to me that the SCBA mask is more securely fastened to the head, and if I fall, for example, there is less chance that it will fall off than the EEBD. And also if for some reason the regulator stops supplying gas to the mask there will be no oxygen there anyway, if the regulator in the EEBD method stops supplying gas I think the hood can be filled with ambient air, so we will have access to oxygen.

Also, SCBA just looks beautiful)

The EEBD Hood is extremely tight around the neck, it will never come off

 

[asian.neet]

This is why I got argon. No luck with nitrogen.

I just found argon I'll order it this coming week

 

[vanilladust]

Can someone explain the physical differences in the gases? Initially I was going with Helium but nowI'm hearing nitrogen is also not painful.

 

[Yuna is My Waifu]

Can someone explain the physical differences in the gases? Initially I was going with Helium but nowI'm hearing nitrogen is also not painful.

I heard Nitrogen was the popular one everybody was going for, both will work though, i think even Argon might work. I'd just go with whichever one is easier for you to buy tbh as long as it is high purity and not diluted.

 

[asian.neet]

Is this argon good enough as a source?

 

[IsThisEverything]

If I order a tank of oxygen-free nitrogen and a regulator in the UK, from a source named in the PPH, am I likely to run into any issues or will it be delivered without question? This might have been asked before but I wondered what the current status is on ordering such things, as I know there has been a crackdown on ordering SN recently. It's going to cost me the best part of £200 so I don't want to waste money I don't have. I've already lost money ordering SN that got intercepted. Thanks.

 

[asian.neet]

Is this argon good enough as a source?View attachment 123716

Please someone answer me I need to start preparing this week

 

[Username1]

Please someone answer me I need to start preparing this week

As far as I know, the recommended purity is 2.8 (99.8%). A higher degree of purification can be used, but a lower degree should not be used

 

[Falling Slowly]

Is this argon good enough as a source?View attachment 123716

40 cu ft = ~ 1133 litres of compressed gas.
At a flowrate of 25 litres per minute (LPM), that gives ~45 mins of gas.
The PPH says that death occurs in 5-10 mins.