Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Hard decision]

Hello everyone

I have recently joined this forum although I have been reading this thread for a while. For CTB I have decided to use SCBA since I see it as a calm and reliable method, although a little confusing when it comes to acquiring the material. I have my 5l 200 bar nitrogen bottle and the g5/8 300 bar adapter to attach it to the bottle

I would like to purchase SCBA equipment. It is easy to see many for sale online but it gives me a certain distrust between those who sell second-hand equipment in who knows what condition and then those that you see at low prices and you do not know how reliable they will be, you can see a lot of difference in prices between one another. I prefer to buy a complete device instead of individual parts to avoid compatibility problems or a supplier failing. I would like to ask in general what problems or anecdotes those of you who have already purchased your equipment have had

Thank you so much

 

[MonsieurIsDead]

After seeing the video for the instructions for the helium method "Helium is better 6B" on www.veoh.com, and then after reading posts and replies to this thread, I've confused. The video, as the original information present in "The Final Exit" does not mention the need for a regulator with the helium method. It states to use to tanks of helium and to just open them and slide on the exit bag (yes there are more details to it but what I'm saying is this method seems to work fine without the regulator).

With the helium method, are we not supposed to lose consciousness within a few seconds and die within a few minutes? If so, then why would I need gas for 40 minutes? Why would my two helium tanks, properly set up, need a regulator to do the job in a few minutes.

I went online, looking for helium regulators... seriously, there are not as many options as with the other gases. Is it just that people have moved on from helium method and are trying to apply the information regarding the other gases to this helium? I certainly hope my 2 tanks of 100% helium are enough... 13.5 cubic feet each,

If I do need a regulator, please explain why. Please explain if it is true that I need a 40 minute supply. Please also help me know how to find a good regulator if I need one. I've read a lot of posts and replies and books and I am more confused than ever now.

 

[wanttosleep]

After seeing the video for the instructions for the helium method "Helium is better 6B" on www.veoh.com, and then after reading posts and replies to this thread, I've confused. The video, as the original information present in "The Final Exit" does not mention the need for a regulator with the helium method. It states to use to tanks of helium and to just open them and slide on the exit bag (yes there are more details to it but what I'm saying is this method seems to work fine without the regulator).

With the helium method, are we not supposed to lose consciousness within a few seconds and die within a few minutes? If so, then why would I need gas for 40 minutes? Why would my two helium tanks, properly set up, need a regulator to do the job in a few minutes.

I went online, looking for helium regulators... seriously, there are not as many options as with the other gases. Is it just that people have moved on from helium method and are trying to apply the information regarding the other gases to this helium? I certainly hope my 2 tanks of 100% helium are enough... 13.5 cubic feet each,

If I do need a regulator, please explain why. Please explain if it is true that I need a 40 minute supply. Please also help me know how to find a good regulator if I need one. I've read a lot of posts and replies and books and I am more confused than ever now.

In Australia easy helium tanks now contains 20% oxygen to prevent CTB. Not sure about the rest of the world I assume something similar. Most people are using nitrogen and argon because it is easier to make sure purity because the normal uses require purity.

The 40min is for safety buffer in case something isn't working correctly and to try ensure that you are deprived of oxygen for decent amount of to ensure CTB

 

[MonsieurIsDead]

In Australia easy helium tanks now contains 20% oxygen to prevent CTB. Not sure about the rest of the world I assume something similar. Most people are using nitrogen and argon because it is easier to make sure purity because the normal uses require purity.

The 40min is for safety buffer in case something isn't working correctly and to try ensure that you are deprived of oxygen for decent amount of to ensure CTB

I'm in Canada and my tanks say 100%. Am I to assume it is not 100%? Also... if it would only take a few minutes, I mean, you would not die more if it didn't work within a few minutes. You'd probably be brain dead, at least? Right? If, for example, the bag slips after you've been unconscious... either you are now in a coma and brain dead or getting there. I would hope? Even if you have more gas, if you miss, you miss. The extra gas would really finish the job?

 

[wanttosleep]

I'm in Canada and my tanks say 100%. Am I to assume it is not 100%? Also... if it would only take a few minutes, I mean, you would not die more if it didn't work within a few minutes. You'd probably be brain dead, at least? Right? If, for example, the bag slips after you've been unconscious... either you are now in a coma and brain dead or getting there. I would hope? Even if you have more gas, if you miss, you miss. The extra gas would really finish the job?

I would check if Canada has anything similar or test the purity of gas if uncertain.

Also time to CTB with gas seems to vary person to person but according to accounts seem to be 10+ mins. Also it less of one or the other but a spectrum of unconscious to brain damage to CTB. It depends of how long your brain has been deprived of oxygen. Hence why you want a buffer you don't want to not CTB because you didn't have enough gas and suffer severe brain damage. Also having extra gas to test purity, leak testing and trial runs to ensure everything is working correctly is useful and having more gas is better than having less

 

[Username1]

I want to bind my body for reliability. What can I write in a search engine to find what I need? I manage to find either belts for pants or ties for cargo

 

[Ammended]

I want to bind my body for reliability. What can I write in a search engine to find what I need? I manage to find either belts for pants or ties for cargo

Luggage straps.

 

[DyingToDie123]

So I finally got the guts to start doing it today, I turn on the gas and the regulator is leaking like mad, so much so that the little ball isn't even floating. It seems to be mostly or all from the point where the cylinder connects to the regulator. My best guess is that it's not screwing on tightly enough by hand (since there is some thread showing) so I've ordered a wrench that's coming in tomorrow morning to try that. My second best guess is that the regulator is crap so I've ordered a different one on Amazon just in case.

If anyone has other recommendations/solutions I should look into in the meantime, I would love to hear them. I know it's hard to diagnose without actually being able to feel/witness it though. I'm really frustrated, I really thought this was it, I'd finally figured it out, and yet another road block comes up.

 

[thewalkingdread]

My best guess is that it's not screwing on tightly enough by hand (since there is some thread showing) so I've ordered a wrench that's coming in tomorrow morning to try that

Probably it's this... You need a wrench to tight the Seal up... You could also try that white film they use on piping treads to help with the sealing too...

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I turn on the gas and the regulator is leaking like mad, so much so that the little ball isn't even floating. It seems to be mostly or all from the point where the cylinder connects to the regulator. My best guess is that it's not screwing on tightly enough by hand (since there is some thread showing) so I've ordered a wrench that's coming in tomorrow morning to try that.

Yes, you must tighten it using a wrench. It's a required step.

Did you order the correct size (and type) wrench?

My second best guess is that the regulator is crap so I've ordered a different one on Amazon just in case.

Regulator should be fine.

 

[bigfishlittlefish]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Thanks for all this.

PPH talks a little about someone removing the gear so it looks like you passed naturally.. I'm wondering how realistic this actually is though - won't a gas canister be found in the yeah, for instance? Plus, it means someone would have to be there to remove the hood...
I don't want to go alone, and may not have to. if I don't go alone I want to make damn sure I protect the person who is there immediately after...

 

[Mare Imbrium]

So I finally got the guts to start doing it today, I turn on the gas and the regulator is leaking like mad, so much so that the little ball isn't even floating. It seems to be mostly or all from the point where the cylinder connects to the regulator. My best guess is that it's not screwing on tightly enough by hand (since there is some thread showing) so I've ordered a wrench that's coming in tomorrow morning to try that. My second best guess is that the regulator is crap so I've ordered a different one on Amazon just in case.

If anyone has other recommendations/solutions I should look into in the meantime, I would love to hear them. I know it's hard to diagnose without actually being able to feel/witness it though. I'm really frustrated, I really thought this was it, I'd finally figured it out, and yet another road block comes up.

You cannot tighten a regulator by hand.

 

[DyingToDie123]

Probably it's this... You need a wrench to tight the Seal up... You could also try that white film they use on piping treads to help with the sealing too...

Yes, you must tighten it using a wrench. It's a required step.

Did you order the correct size (and type) wrench?



Regulator should be fine.

You cannot tighten a regulator by hand.

Thanks! Wrench came in (10" adjustable open-ended). It seems to fit but I can't get it screwed on any further than before. Can I attribute this to anything other than my lack of upper body strength?

Update: I think I figured it out somehow, air is coming through the hose now. The little ball blasts to the top whenever I turn it on the slightest, I'm not sure how to get it in the correct range, so that's my next mission.

Update #2: I figured out how to adjust the airflow! You all are wonderful tysm <333

 

[RazorWing]

Thanks for all this.

PPH talks a little about someone removing the gear so it looks like you passed naturally.. I'm wondering how realistic this actually is though - won't a gas canister be found in the yeah, for instance? Plus, it means someone would have to be there to remove the hood...
I don't want to go alone, and may not have to. if I don't go alone I want to make damn sure I protect the person who is there immediately after...

This is really difficult to do. Someone would have to be willing to remove the hood/mask and cylinder from the scene. Typically this action alone in most countries is unlawful as they will be tampering with evidence and so whoever you get to do it could end up going to prison if caught. In the absence of a reason for death, a postmortem would take place to determine cause of death. It's extremely difficult (not impossible) to detect that an insert gas was the cause of death. I would suggest if you strongly want to go down this road that the person you get to do it understands the consequences if caught.

 

[thewalkingdread]

@DyingToDie123 @reallysleepy

I've just stumbled, by chance, at an YouTube vídeo that gives us some basic information about gas cylinders and pressure... Not much, but it's worth to check It out.

It starts at 6:20



It's also fun to watch solely for the Elon Musk debunk.... God... I hate that duchebag

 

[thewalkingdread]

A decade ago, back in 2013, when i had my first major episode of active suicidal ideation, I started to research on topics like right-to-die and euthanasia... and I soon discovered the Final Exit book, and DVD, by Derek Humphry... That kind — empathetic! — man changed my life forever because he gave me all the reassurance that I craved, i. e, that I could end my torment, peacefully, at any point of my choosing, in a very simple way...

I have always wanted to CTB via Exit Bag and Helium ever since... It just stucked with me, in my mind, through all these years... this is the most accessible and peaceful method to euthanize myself.

I wouldn't need any fancy prescription drugs, lying to doctors, nor any other complicated stuff. At that time, you could just go to a "toy R us", get a couple of party hellium gas tanks, some PVC tubing, craft a plastic Exit Bag, and done!

Unfortunately, Helium party ballon tanks are not reliable anymore, only industrial Nitrogen tanks are... Which is a bummer, since I never really got the chance to play with Helium,as a kid, in order to make the notorious squeaky voice... and I was hoping to do it as one of the last things I would do before leaving this piece of shit world/reality...

Ironically, I always got some confort in the idea that dying with a last squeaky laughter would be a good last goodbye joke...

 

[Naitachal11]

People, it's not so complicated

Read the PPH

I tried to click the link for the pph and it said website not available. Do you have a current link? I'm not technically inclined so I don't have a VPN or use tor. Would love to learn how but not sure if that's possible.

 

[Yaffle]

I tried to click the link for the pph and it said website not available. Do you have a current link? I'm not technically inclined so I don't have a VPN or use tor. Would love to learn how but not sure if that's possible.

This sticky has a working download link in the original post, I used the Bunkrr link.

PPH Essentials 2022

https://bunkrr.su/d/STZOEANPJhEjC [link has no preview] https://gofile.io/d/W0Zwnc [link has preview] Edit: August 2023, fixed the links.

sanctioned-suicide.net

Just click the link then click to download 12MB file to your device.



Edited to link to Sticky rather than include direct link to file.

 

[DyingToDie123]

UGH I just tried this and SI got in the way. I probably had the hood on my head for 5-10 seconds before I started feeling... maybe not quite suffocation/air hunger but my body knew something was up. I'm not sure how close I got to blacking out but I'd guess I still had a fair bit of time.

I'm really discouraged, I don't want to fail again because I don't want to waste gas but I don't think I have it in me to succeed this way.

 

[Falling Slowly]

UGH I just tried this and SI got in the way. I probably had the hood on my head for 5-10 seconds before I started feeling... maybe not quite suffocation/air hunger but my body knew something was up. I'm not sure how close I got to blacking out but I'd guess I still had a fair bit of time.

I'm really discouraged, I don't want to fail again because I don't want to waste gas but I don't think I have it in me to succeed this way.

The same thing happened me in my one attempt with the hood. S.I. is a bitch alright.
Maybe you're not ready/not desperate enough right now.

Someone who did a blackout test with SCBA setup before said it took about 30 seconds to blackout. They didn't hyperventilate beforehand.
If you decide to give it another go, hyperventilate beforehand for about a minute to speed up the loss of consciousness, if you didn't previously.

 

[piddincir]

A decade ago, back in 2013, when i had my first major episode of active suicidal ideation, I started to research on topics like right-to-die and euthanasia... and I soon discovered the Final Exit book, and DVD, by Derek Humphry... That kind — empathetic! — man changed my life forever because he gave me all the reassurance that I craved, i. e, that I could end my torment, peacefully, at any point of my choosing, in a very simple way...

I have always wanted to CTB via Exit Bag and Helium ever since... It just stucked with me, in my mind, through all these years... this is the most accessible and peaceful method to euthanize myself.

I wouldn't need any fancy prescription drugs, lying to doctors, nor any other complicated stuff. At that time, you could just go to a "toy R us", get a couple of party hellium gas tanks, some PVC tubing, craft a plastic Exit Bag, and done!

Unfortunately, Helium party ballon tanks are not reliable anymore, only industrial Nitrogen tanks are... Which is a bummer, since I never really got the chance to play with Helium,as a kid, in order to make the notorious squeaky voice... and I was hoping to do it as one of the last things I would do before leaving this piece of shit world/reality...

Ironically, I always got some confort in the idea that dying with a last squeaky laughter would be a good last goodbye joke...

haha well I tried with helium last night, I fucked it up, got too drunk and in a state of half consciousness pulled the hose out the bag, I had a playlist to go out to on random and was basically out when the song my wife died to came in and some unconscious desire pulled it out, I dont remember doing it.

Anyways I was listening to one of our songs when I started and I remember just inhaling but listening and crying, but my cry sounded so fucking hilarious it made me laugh which was even funnier and high pitched. Was quite pleasant all in all - I would do nitrogen next time for sure

 

[DyingToDie123]

I've tried this five times now, twice yesterday and three times today. I can't make it past the ten-second mark. Thoughts go out the window and everything is just automatic after that point. I don't even remember what it feels like, I guess I worry that it's not working because I feel fine and then I'm like "why am I doing this?" Ugh. I tried alcohol and chilling with the hood on and no flow, neither helps.

Maybe some tests would make me feel better? wrt oxygen and the like? I don't want to spend more money on stuff if it's not going to help though. I've been digging myself into debt assuming I wouldn't live to have to pay it off but here we are.

Am I doing something wrong if I'm not feeling anything after 10 seconds?

 

[DyingToDie123]

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

 

[Falling Slowly]

I've tried this five times now, twice yesterday and three times today. I can't make it past the ten-second mark. Thoughts go out the window and everything is just automatic after that point. I don't even remember what it feels like, I guess I worry that it's not working because I feel fine and then I'm like "why am I doing this?" Ugh. I tried alcohol and chilling with the hood on and no flow, neither helps.

Maybe some tests would make me feel better? wrt oxygen and the like? I don't want to spend more money on stuff if it's not going to help though. I've been digging myself into debt assuming I wouldn't live to have to pay it off but here we are.

Am I doing something wrong if I'm not feeling anything after 10 seconds?

You're not doing anything wrong, it's just 10 seconds isn't long enough. According to those who did a blackout test, you don't feel anything, unconsciousness just hits you instantly. If you're feeling any suffocation feelings, it's due to CO2. A small bit of CO2 in the hood is normal, especially if there's no exhalation valve on it. But you shouldn't be feeling any suffocation feelings.

Ultimately, it's you're S.I. that's stopping you, and the only way to get over that is if your desperation to ctb is powerful enough.
A different method, with a more instant way out, might suit you better. But S.I. will still probably hit you beforehand.

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

You're using argon right? Welders often use an argon/CO2 mix, are you certain there's no CO2 in with the Argon?

It may be worthwhile upping the LPM flow to 25 LPM. One of the most expert people on this site, @GasMonkey (no longer around), had this to say about argon:

"Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA......
There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging."


Excerpt above from here.

 

[sanctions]

So if you have no problem with that adapter, that adapter will be the next solution for the SCBA setup.
There's also a DIN300 G5/8 to CGA-580 adapter in the US.
View attachment 120206

I think I need this adapter for my SCUBA setup. If anyone know where I can buy this adapter, please send me a private message! I found it in one place but it's out of stock :(

 

[DyingToDie123]

You're using argon right? Welders often use an argon/CO2 mix, are you certain there's no CO2 in with the Argon?

The site says 100% argon so unless they're lying it should be.

It may be worthwhile upping the LPM flow to 25 LPM. One of the most expert people on this site, @GasMonkey (no longer around), had this to say about argon:

"Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA......
There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging."


Excerpt above from here.

This is helpful, thank you! I'm too burnt out to try again today I think but maybe I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

 

[Intoxicated]

"Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA......
There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging."

I don't understand that degree of attention to CO2. You're supposed to pass out because of low level of oxygen in the blood much faster than CO2 would cause hypercapnia and bad perceptions associated with it. Ar may be slightly worse than He or N2 because it's heavier than O2 that can make displacing oxygen from the bag downwards less efficient. But if you prefill an empty bag with Ar and the bag is large enough, then theoretically you can quickly pass out without purging small amounts of entered O2 inside the bag if its resulting concentration is below 6%.

 

[outrider567]

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

Get an oxygen meter for your finger, and test it, your oxygen level should drop rapidly after 10 seconds, but if it doesn't, something is wrong

Update: I think I am feeling some suffocation/panic from CO2. It is so slight but enough to make it intolerable for me. This isn't supposed to happen with an EEBD hood -- what can I do to troubleshoot this? It is the MSA brand if that helps.

Nitrogen is better than Argon

 

[DyingToDie123]

It may be worthwhile upping the LPM flow to 25 LPM.

I tried this today, felt MUCH much better, no panic response at all, actually felt like breathing normal air. I think I made it 15-20 seconds this time (I took 8 relatively slow breaths) and I know it was pure SI that got in the way. No effects though so I think I'm far from blackout. I don't think I'm in the right mindset for it today so just gotta save it for a day where I'm really feeling it.

 

[Yuna is My Waifu]

I tried this today, felt MUCH much better, no panic response at all, actually felt like breathing normal air. I think I made it 15-20 seconds this time (I took 8 relatively slow breaths) and I know it was pure SI that got in the way. No effects though so I think I'm far from blackout. I don't think I'm in the right mindset for it today so just gotta save it for a day where I'm really feeling it.

So do you just need a Nitrogen Tank, a pressure gauge and one of those new masks they made during Covid now? Could you DM me with your setup or any info thx.