Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[RazorWing]

The EEBD is too risky, because you might not be able to remove it in time.
In the case of the plastic bag, it can be easily removed or even completely ripped off should something go wrong regardless.


You'd do the same procedure as if you were going to ctb with a few adjustments.
You don't adjust the elastic cord, and instead will hold the bag with both of your hands.

You hyperventilate during the time it takes to pre-fill the bag.
Once it's fully inflated, you stop the regulator flow and pull it down and hold the bag with both hands.

Breathe for about 15-30 seconds until you black out.
Your hands should let go of the bag after blacking out.


NOTE: I have not tried this myself yet, but will do so later.
I suggest waiting for my result before trying it yourself, in case my method doesn't work or proves to be dangerous.

Thank you for clarifying. Please let us know how you get on.

The SCBA blackout is good but you will lose some gas.

Just wondering why you would lose gas as I thought the SCBA had a demand valve and once the mask comes off after blackout, it will stop supply?

 

[sensenmann]

Thank you for clarifying. Please let us know how you get on.

Just wondering why you would lose gas as I thought the SCBA had a demand valve and once the mask comes off after blackout, it will stop supply?

I may have mixed up PP and non-PP, maybe someone can clarify.

 

[mcis5942]

My argon flowmeter for nitrogen setup has just arrived, it's different from what advertised though, it reads SCFH instead of LPM.

Should I just source for another flowmeter in LPM?

Or can I use below method to convert LPM to SCFH?
12.8 LPM = 27.12 CFH
I'm not sure if SCFH and CFH are the same? Most websites convert with CFH instead of SCFH.

There are calculators in the interwebs to convert LPM to CFH.
15 LPM = 31,78 CFH.

In the case of this regulator the 30 CFH option of the selector looks perfect, that's equivalent to 14,15 LPM which will be higher with Nitrogen since it is calibrated for Argon. In an Argon calibrated flow meter the equivalent to 15 LPM while using Nitrogen is 12,7 LPM.​

Unfortunately the blog mentioned here was taken down..

Your flow rate is set too high; it should be set around 12LPM. You can find the calculations on my blog; it is the August 28th entry. (You can find my blog under my photo, under my name.)

I'm getting a little panic here as I'm not familiar with these technical terms.. thank you all for the advice and help

 

[ClownWorld2023]

My argon flowmeter for nitrogen setup has just arrived, it's different from what advertised though, it reads SCFH instead of LPM.

Should I just source for another flowmeter in LPM?

Or can I use below method to convert LPM to SCFH?
12.8 LPM = 27.12 CFH
I'm not sure if SCFH and CFH are the same? Most websites convert with CFH instead of SCFH.



Unfortunately the blog mentioned here was taken down..



I'm getting a little panic here as I'm not familiar with these technical terms.. thank you all for the advice and help

For our case, it doesn't really matter.
You can just treat SCFH as CFH in this case.




I looked it up, and simplified: The actual flow rate varies depending on the actual temperature (ambient, room temperature) and atmospheric pressure.

https://learnmetrics.com/scfm-vs-cfm-and-scfm-to-cfm-conversion/

The website has a calculator, but it uses CFM, which is much higher than CFH.

A quick approximation showed me that the actual flow rate varies by 2 LPM at best, given two spaces where one has an ambient room temperature of 15C celcius and the other 37C celcius.

 

[Username1]

I'm from Russia. As far as I understand, I need a G3/4 - DIN300 adapter for the SCBA method. I tried to find him, but I couldn't. Can someone tell me if the adapter has the right name? If suddenly there is someone from Russia who goes with the SCBA method and he found this adapter, please write me a personal message. (In addition, I found that Drager products are not shipped to Russia, perhaps you can order from abroad, but I do not know how)

Someone has a saved Greenberg blog?

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I'm from Russia. As far as I understand, I need a G3/4 - DIN300 adapter for the SCBA method. I tried to find him, but I couldn't. Can someone tell me if the adapter has the right name? If suddenly there is someone from Russia who goes with the SCBA method and he found this adapter, please write me a personal message. (In addition, I found that Drager products are not shipped to Russia, perhaps you can order from abroad, but I do not know how)

Someone has a saved Greenberg blog?

Do you happen to know the cylinder connections in your region?
Or whether your region uses DIN type connections or something else?

 

[Username1]

Do you happen to know the cylinder connections in your region?
Or whether your region uses DIN type connections or something else?

As I understood, the nitrogen cylinder in my country has a G3/4 connection, I also looked at a specific cylinder on the website - the G3/4 connector was specified in the specifications

 

[ClownWorld2023]

As I understood, the nitrogen cylinder in my country has a G3/4 connection, I also looked at a specific cylinder on the website - the G3/4 connector was specified in the specifications

I saw W27.8 and W19.2 connectors mentioned for Russia.
I think your country has it's own standard, so it's difficult for me to find more information on it.

As for G 3/4 being mentioned on the forum, I only found this post so far:

300 bar female G 5/8( on the Air side) to 200 bar female G 3/4 on the Nitrogen side.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/post-1930734
That "300 bar" on the Air side is because SCBA Air regulator is DIN300 for DIN300 cylinders(DIN300 valves).
The difference between DIN300 and DIN200 valve:


Those who want to CTS( Catch The Submarine) with diving equipment(SCUBA) need 200 bar on both sides because the diving regulator is DIN200(for DIN200 valves).

For example @Wunderkind used 300 G 5/8 to 200 G 3/4(note that his adapter came without O-ring and he used a lot of teflon tape on his cylinder's male thread) but GasMonkey's "300 G 5/8 to 200 W24.32" adapter has O-ring(only on the Nitrogen side) and for the Air side,SCBA Air regulator itself has O-ring,so he can enjoy a leak-free connection without using teflon tape.

Oh, I didn't notice that,your G 3/4 valve is female?
@Wunderkind used "G 5/8 to G 3/4" adapter and by the looks of it,looks like his valve had male thread.
View attachment 118015
If your G 3/4 valve is female,then you need "300 bar female(internal) G 5/8( on the Air side) to 200 bar male(external) G 3/4 on the Nitrogen side.
You can't connect a female thread to a female thread or a male thread to a male thread.
If your valve is male,you need female(internal)adapter on the Nitrogen side. If your valve is female,you need male(external) adapter on the Nitrogen side.
The Air side of the "Air to N2" adapter always remains female because SCBA Air regulator has male thread.

 

[Username1]

I saw W27.8 and W19.2 connectors mentioned for Russia.
I think your country has it's own standard, so it's difficult for me to find more information on it.

As for G 3/4 being mentioned on the forum, I only found this post so far:

Here's another mention:

There is a very good dual-stage Nitrogen flow regulator for the AU/NZ connection. You can find it easily in the Australian eBay.


Checking that the cylinder doesn't loss pressure when the regulator is pressurized for 10+ mins, positive and negative pressure tests on the mask, checking that the demand valve maintains a positive pressure inside the mask.


You shouldn't do that, pure oxygen is toxic (and the SCBA reg isn't an oxygen reg). The equipment could be tested perfectly with any air cylinder with a DIN300 connection like an SCBA tank ( tho).
​

You must use oxygen tubing instead of the welding hose. Read inert gas chapter on the PPH Essentials.

The supplier recommened in the PPeH for EU is from Germany, top-notch supplier with cylinders of all sizes. I can't name it here coz is against the rules to post sources. The most balanced size is 5L 200bar.​

You can implement all types of setups in the UK: ExitBag, Hood, SCBA, SCUBA. Depends on how much money do you want to spend on it.


There are also adapters for the G3/4" Russian connection and the CGA-346 US SCBA connection (CGA-347 is also used for SCBAs there).

Bar (unit) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Here's another mention:

Yea if GasMonkey said they exist, then they probably do, but it might be difficult to find.

I saw "W24.32 x G 3/4" and "W21.8 x G 3/4" adapters on some site. Don't know if that's useful.


What is the connector name and the thread dimensions for the DIN300 connection, do you happen to know that?

 

[Username1]

Yea if GasMonkey said they exist, then they probably do, but it might be difficult to find.

I saw "W24.32 x G 3/4" and "W21.8 x G 3/4" adapters on some site. Don't know if that's useful.


What is the connector name and the thread dimensions for the DIN300 connection, do you happen to know that?

I thought that DIN300 is the name of the thread, it seems that this is the name of some other characteristic of the adapter (I saw how the SCBA regulator did not fit into DIN200). I tried to find the name of the connector at the outlet of the valve of the compressed air cylinder, but I couldn't. This is probably what you need to look for to understand which SCBA regulator connector is in my region? Or, probably, if I order a SCBA kit from another country, I need an adapter with a connector that is used in that country. Perhaps the connectors of SCBA regulators are standardized? And if Drager used to supply its products to my country, then their regulators had the same thread as in other countries?

I thought that DIN300 is the name of the thread, it seems that this is the name of some other characteristic of the adapter (I saw how the SCBA regulator did not fit into DIN200). I tried to find the name of the connector at the outlet of the valve of the compressed air cylinder, but I couldn't. This is probably what you need to look for to understand which SCBA regulator connector is in my region? Or, probably, if I order a SCBA kit from another country, I need an adapter with a connector that is used in that country. Perhaps the connectors of SCBA regulators are standardized? And if Drager used to supply its products to my country, then their regulators had the same thread as in other countries?

According to some information, the G5/8 connector is used for SCBA in all countries except America, I hope this is true (maybe this information will be useful to someone, and maybe many people knew about it here, but not me)

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I thought that DIN300 is the name of the thread, it seems that this is the name of some other characteristic of the adapter (I saw how the SCBA regulator did not fit into DIN200). I tried to find the name of the connector at the outlet of the valve of the compressed air cylinder, but I couldn't. This is probably what you need to look for to understand which SCBA regulator connector is in my region? Or, probably, if I order a SCBA kit from another country, I need an adapter with a connector that is used in that country. Perhaps the connectors of SCBA regulators are standardized? And if Drager used to supply its products to my country, then their regulators had the same thread as in other countries?
They wrote me a private message saying that the G5/8 connector is used for SCBA in all countries except America, I hope this is true (maybe this information will be useful to someone, and maybe many people knew about it here, but not me)

Yea I myself don't know anything about the SCBA method apart from some of the bits I read here and there.

I do remember that finding the correct adapter for your region was one of the most important steps.
The correct adapter is required to be able to connect the gas cylinder to the SCBA setup.

 

[Username1]

In addition, I have an idea what DIN200/300 could mean, perhaps it means what pressure the adapter is designed for (DIN300 is longer than DIN200, which probably provides a stronger connection).

I thought that DIN300 is the name of the thread, it seems that this is the name of some other characteristic of the adapter (I saw how the SCBA regulator did not fit into DIN200). I tried to find the name of the connector at the outlet of the valve of the compressed air cylinder, but I couldn't. This is probably what you need to look for to understand which SCBA regulator connector is in my region? Or, probably, if I order a SCBA kit from another country, I need an adapter with a connector that is used in that country. Perhaps the connectors of SCBA regulators are standardized? And if Drager used to supply its products to my country, then their regulators had the same thread as in other countries?

According to some information, the G5/8 connector is used for SCBA in all countries except America, I hope this is true (maybe this information will be useful to someone, and maybe many people knew about it here, but not me)

 

[simplymiserable]

I have my all my equipment ready for my SCBA set-up and need to run a some tests. Have a couple of questions.

How do you safely deliver the nitrogen from the tank to the mask? do I simply connect them and switch the cylinder valve on?

Should the demand valve be off, on or does it not matter?

Should I strap the cylinder down while conducting the tests?

I am conducting my tests with a pulse oximeter, planning to take 1 or 2 inhales to look for changes in oxygen level. Is this a good method or is there a better way?

 

[Ammended]

Thoughts on this type of a mask? They come with or or without the bag attachment. It attaches to an oxygen tank regulator and can go up to 15LPM

Would the oxygen tank regulator also fit a nitrogen tank?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Thoughts on this type of a mask? They come with or or without the bag attachment. It attaches to an oxygen tank regulator and can go up to 15LPM

Would the oxygen tank regulator also fit a nitrogen tank?
View attachment 122546

It doesn't have a good seal to keep the oxygen out.

 

[Ammended]

It doesn't have a good seal to keep the oxygen out.

I should have been clearer. This under a bag.

 

[danvii]

I bought two canisters Argon gas will it work. I've seen some info that says it might as argon is heavier than air. Do I just need to fill the bag full with argon. Also how long will it take for me to pass out. Please someone help

 

[Weltall]

I bought two canisters Argon gas will it work. I've seen some info that says it might as argon is heavier than air. Do I just need to fill the bag full with argon. Also how long will it take for me to pass out. Please someone help

Usually the reports say that once all the CO2 is out of your system, unconsciousness should happen very swiftly.
They recommend to do a large exhale before placing the bag/mask on the head.
From what I've read, it could be just a few seconds, to a few minutes before you pass out.
If you're using a non-rebreather mask or bag, then yes, it's recommended to pre-fill it with the chosen gas.

Remember, you have a choice.
We'll support you with whichever decision you decide.

 

[wanttosleep]

I should have been clearer. This under a bag.

So a worse eebd with extra steps

 

[my_sundown]

I read somewhere Alabama is now using this instead of N.

 

[danvii]

Usually the reports say that once all the CO2 is out of your system, unconsciousness should happen very swiftly.
They recommend to do a large exhale before placing the bag/mask on the head.
From what I've read, it could be just a few seconds, to a few minutes before you pass out.
If you're using a non-rebreather mask or bag, then yes, it's recommended to pre-fill it with the chosen gas.

Remember, you have a choice.
We'll support you with whichever decision you decide.

Thank you. This is the choice I've decided to make thank you for your support all of you

Thank you. This is the choice I've decided to make thank you for your support all of you

I'm just hoping that my attempt actually works this time, hopefully I won't be seeing any of you come Monday

 

[Username1]

I bought two canisters Argon gas will it work. I've seen some info that says it might as argon is heavier than air. Do I just need to fill the bag full with argon. Also how long will it take for me to pass out. Please someone help

The optimal flow rate was determined assuming a constant presence of CO₂, using a gas with a similar weight to Nitrogen (Air), so it should work without assuming a disappearance of CO₂.

Several members have reported "fails" (aborted attempts due to feeling suffocation/panic) using Argon, like the @jodes2 guy who was posting that Argon failed him in almost all new ExitBag/Argon threads, claiming that he did everything correctly. Whether we believe them or not is up to us. I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate.

None of this affects me, since I'm not gonna use the bag but top-notch SCBA gear.​

Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging), but there are people who have CTB'd with Argon+ExitBag like Deafsn0w and the PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing. imcadt99 also CTB'd with an Argon SCBA.

The best gas for the ExitBag is Helium (huge weight difference with CO₂) followed by Nitrogen. The most common CTB gas nowadays is Nitrogen, which has infinite supply (78.08% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen). Helium supply is dwindling since it cannot be manufactured, is more expensive and more difficult to find in pure form. The optimal flow rate of 15 LPM was determined by the EXIT International experiments using Air which has basically the same weight as Nitrogen.

There have been folks here reporting having to abort attempts due to feeling bad (suffocation/panic) with Argon+ExitBag (claiming that they did everything correctly). I tend to think that they did something wrong in the process, but the truth is that we only have strong evidence of 15 LPM working well for Nitrogen and Helium. The supposed issues of Argon should be solved by increasing the flow rate to have a faster CO₂ purging.​

I'm not sure, but I think I heard somewhere that the participants were going to use 20-25 LPM for argon

 

[danvii]

I'm not sure, but I think I heard somewhere that the participants were going to use 20-25 LPM for argon

Alright thanks. I'll give it a go. I've already invested a lot into getting the argon gas so I'm basically committed to that method and nowhere near me seems to have nitrogen. Honestly if this doesn't work I'm not sure what other peaceful method to try. Might just jump in front of a train. I really just need out of this life. But we will see come Sunday

Alright thanks. I'll give it a go. I've already invested a lot into getting the argon gas so I'm basically committed to that method and nowhere near me seems to have nitrogen. Honestly if this doesn't work I'm not sure what other peaceful method to try. Might just jump in front of a train. I really just need out of this life. But we will see come Sunday

Plus I really don't want to mess it up and be stuck here with a permanent disability

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Thoughts on this type of a mask? They come with or or without the bag attachment.

I don't think those types of masks were designed to provide a 100% seal, which is required to prevent oxygen from the outside flowing in.

 

[Ammended]

I don't think those types of masks were designed to provide a 100% seal, which is required to prevent oxygen from the outside flowing in.

My thoughts were this with an exit bag.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

My thoughts were this with an exit bag.

The plastic oven bags could work, but they seem fragile indeed.

A plastic bag that is made out of a thicker material and is also airtight would be better.

 

[DyingToDie123]

Help plz. The hose on my EEBD hood looks like a different material than those in other threads. Any idea how to get it connected to my regulator? There are not threads and there is a white filter near the top that I might need to cut off.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Help plz. The hose on my EEBD hood looks like a different material than those in other threads. Any idea how to get it connected to my regulator? There are not threads and there is a white filter near the top that I might need to cut off.

If there's no thread on the hose connection then it won't screw onto anything. It's probably best to cut the connector off and attach the hose directly to the regulator connection with a hose clamp.
Most regulators come with a barb connection like this:

 

[DyingToDie123]

It's probably best to cut the connector off and attach the hose directly to the regulator connection with a hose clamp.

On the EEBD hose or the regulator or both? EDIT: nevermind, re-reading it it seems like just the former.

Most regulators come with a barb connection like this:
View attachment 122784

thanks! I definitely have the narrow piece but I don't know if I lost the other or had to use it for something else? EDIT: I have both but they don't attach to the regulator.

If nothing fits immediately would it be a horrible idea to just use plumbers tape and/or duct tape? Surely that would be too easy but I'm desperate lol