Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[ClownWorld2023]

I tested breathing in/out of the EEBD hood.

The first time I exhaled out I could feel the air being pushed out of the exhale valve.
It's not being pushed out with much force though. It's a bit faint.

The subsequent in/out exhales, no air was being pushed out of the exhale valve.


I repeated the above two times, same result.


That makes me think it depends on the volume of air that's left inside the hood.



Will repeat it again later for placebo reasons.


EDIT: This was done while standing. Will also repeat it while lying down later.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Just tested it again two times, now lying down.

First time, exhaled air left both the exhale valve and the collar area (felt it with my hands).

Second time, exhaled air only left the exhale valve (did not feel anything around the collar area).





I tested it like this:

Take EEBD hood. expand the inside with your hands so it gets filled with air, similar to how you would expand the inside of a plastic bag.

Start stretching the collar area of the hood to allow for easy equipping.

Fully breathe in as much air as you can and hold breath.
(Belly breathing)

Equip the hood. Try not to let much air escape while doing this. So keep the collar stretched until your head is inside.
Put on the inner mask on your face and make sure the collar is properly sealed.

Fully exhale with all force.




Note: After the first time you exhale, this no longer works, because too much air has left the EEBD hood.
So to test it again, repeat above steps in the exact same manner.


I tried to explain it as best as I could above.

 

[Falling Slowly]

If you think those two holes are a flaw in the design of the hood, seal it.

Not a flaw; like I said it's probably designed to let air flow into the hood itself. These hoods are designed to keep people alive to get out of an emergency situation; some CO2 mixing in with the air over a few minutes isn't going to affect them staying alive.

But for our purposes, where as close to 100% nitrogen as possible is preferable, it's understandable if people are wondering how effective an exhalation valve is, or whether CO2 will be pushed out the bottom of the hood by the nitrogen, etc.

But like you said, it'll probably work fine when the nitrogen is flowing.

OK now I'm confused. So the the two holes matter in terms of co2 getting inside the hood? How would you seal them?

You probably don't need to seal them with tape or whatever, I was just wondering if it would ensure less CO2 would get into the hood itself, from the mask/mouthpiece.

Damn, I could almost just run a hose under that like an old school exit bag. You need another hose for air to get out though right?

If you're going doing the exit bag setup, you just need the hose from the regulator bringing the gas into the bag. Exhaled air will be pushed out the bottom of the exit bag by the nitrogen.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Not a flaw; like I said it's probably designed to let air flow into the hood itself. These hoods are designed to keep people alive to get out of an emergency situation; some CO2 mixing in with the air over a few minutes isn't going to affect them staying alive.

But for our purposes, where as close to 100% nitrogen as possible is preferable, it's understandable if people are wondering how effective an exhalation valve is, or whether CO2 will be pushed out the bottom of the hood by the nitrogen, etc.

But like you said, it'll probably work fine when the nitrogen is flowing.

I think it improves the CO2 purging by abit, but it's probably not that significant.
Like, I don't think it's as good as SCBA.


After wearing the EEBD hood, these are the two main advantages I found:

• Proper seal. No need to worry about whether it's too tight or too loose, which also means no ambiguity.
• Durable material. It's much better than a plastic bag.
  You don't need to worry about "ripping off" an EEBD hood because of SI.

In my case, it was difficult to get the hood on. I had to squeeze my head into it, almost choking myself in the process.
The same for taking it off.
It takes quite an effort and a bit of time to remove the hood.

 

[Falling Slowly]

After wearing the EEBD hood, these are the two main advantages I found:

• You don't need to worry about "ripping off" an EEBD hood because of SI.

You've obviously never experienced S.I.!
S.I. may not hinder everyone, and obviously many people overcome it, but for some people, having a tight hood on isn't gonna matter a damn if S.I. overpowers them.

In my case, it was difficult to get the hood on. I had to squeeze my head into it, almost choking myself in the process.
The same for taking it off.
It takes quite an effort and a bit of time to remove the hood.

While your hood seems to be too small for you, if the inner mask sits tightly against your mouth, it may work out better than if it was a bit loose. Is the hood neck not elasticated?

 

[ClownWorld2023]

While your hood seems to be too small for you, if the inner mask sits tightly against your mouth, it may work out better than if it was a bit loose. Is the hood neck not elasticated?

I don't know whether it's elasticated, but it's difficult to get it on and it's quite tight, but after wearing it, the sealing is pretty much perfect.

You've obviously never experienced S.I.!
S.I. may not hinder everyone, and obviously many people overcome it, but for some people, having a tight hood on isn't gonna matter a damn if S.I. overpowers them.

You should strap your dominant hand so you can't use it to "rip off" the EEBD hood.

With a plastic bag I can see it happening, maybe even with one hand, because it's just thin plastic that can readily tear if you want it to.
That just can't happen with an EEBD hood.
I had difficulties taking it off even with two hands.

How are you supposed to take it off if your low on oxygen, (nearing) unconscious and your dominant hand is strapped?

 

[puffnstuff]

I have seen a lot mentioned but can someone post manufactures / models of good EEBD Hoods?

 

[Falling Slowly]

I have seen a lot mentioned but can someone post manufactures / models of good EEBD

People have either gone the cheap route, and bought a hood off the likes of Alibaba. Or bought the likes of Draeger or 3M Scott (e.g. Scott ELSA) hoods. Though some are advising against getting the Draeger PSS hood, due to issues with the exhalation valve. Just try and get one with a hose attached, and an exhalation valve.

 

[winterparty]

What about the the two holes on the inner mask of the 3m scott hood? To seal or not to seal? The picture is there if you scroll upwards.

I saw a previous post of yours saying you have the Scott ELSA hood, which I also have. While there's an exhalation valve on it, it's not great. There's also 2 small holes in the inner mask(see pic below), which I presume are to let the air go into the hood itself.
Are you worried about too much CO2 getting into the hood and not going out the exhalation valve?

View attachment 121336

 

[Falling Slowly]

What about the the two holes on the inner mask of the 3m scott hood? To seal or not to seal? The picture is there if you scroll upwards.

I honestly don't know, it's up to yourself. You are probably better off not sealing the holes, and letting the gas flow into the main hood through those holes. Some CO2 may also go out those holes, but the exhalation valve will probably work better when the gas is flowing.

It may not make too much of a difference if some CO2 gets into the hood. CO2 gets exhaled into an exit bag before it's pushed out the bottom, and that has worked for people. Plus you'll be mostly inhaling through the inner mask once it is snug up against your mouth.

 

[puffnstuff]

People have either gone the cheap route, and bought a hood off the likes of Alibaba. Or bought the likes of Draeger or 3M Scott (e.g. Scott ELSA) hoods. Though some are advising against getting the Draeger PSS hood, due to issues with the exhalation valve. Just try and get one with a hose attached, and an exhalation valve.

What about the EEBD hoods on Alibaba?

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I honestly don't know, it's up to yourself. You are probably better off not sealing the holes, and letting the gas flow into the main hood through those holes. Some CO2 may also go out those holes, but the exhalation valve will probably work better when the gas is flowing.

It should.

The valve should at least work if you test it the same manner as I did above.


Whether the valve will also work at the normal 15-25 LPM flow I don't know.
That's something I'm wondering about too.
I don't have access to breathing air / clean compressed air right now, or I'd test it myself.

 

[RazorWing]

Thank you ztem for your help. I will look at purchasing the side entry regulator you suggested.

There appears to be a few different variations and models of 3M Scott SCBD. There is the Vision 3 and ProMask model each with different variations. Is there any recommend model and variation?

Most of the SCBD masks don't come with the air supply valve so you either need to buy this separately or buy the 3M Scott RAS Positive Pressure Respiratory Airline Apparatus. Is this correct?

Example of 3M Scott RAS

With the RAS, it seems to have enough length to not require an extension hose. For connecting the RAS to the regulator, the RAS uses a male CEN type connector, would this still work with the 3/8 BSP Female to Rectus 95KS Female or would I need a 3/8 BSP Female to a quick release coupling?

3/8 BSP Female to Rectus 95KS Female

3/8 BSP Female to Quick Release Coupling


If a positive pressure demand valve is used like the one with the 3M Scott RAS, could one use a 2L (420L volume) instead or would a larger volume be recommended? The next size up in the UK is 9.4L (1200L volume).

 

[ztem]

I will look at purchasing the side entry regulator you suggested

If you want to go with the SCBA setup, there is no need to buy a normal regulator or coupler but the cost is high.

There appears to be a few different variations and models of 3M Scott SCBD. There is the Vision 3 and ProMask model each with different variations. Is there any recommend model and variation?

Most of the SCBD masks don't come with the air supply valve so you either need to buy this separately or buy the 3M Scott RAS Positive Pressure Respiratory Airline Apparatus. Is this correct?With the RAS, it seems to have enough length to not require an extension hose. For connecting the RAS to the regulator, the RAS uses a male CEN type connector, would this still work with the 3/8 BSP Female to Rectus 95KS Female or would I need a 3/8 BSP Female to a quick release coupling?

Increase the number of your posts.

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sanctioned-suicide.net

3/8 BSP Female to Rectus 95KS Female

Yes that coupler if you want to go with this hood.

could one use a 2L (420L volume) instead or would a larger volume be recommended? The next size up in the UK is 9.4L (1200L volume).

9.4L

 

[winterparty]

Is it quite rough to lose consciousness or is it more smooth, gentle and painless? I will CTB tomorrow if everything works out. Thank you for everyone helping me here on this forum.

 

[Das Nichts]

Not sure, I haven't seen anyone say for certain. Several people have presumed that @GasMonkey has ctb as it's unlikely he'd be off the site for this long.
I'm not sure about @Das Nichts, I haven't heard anything about him.

Don't worry about me, I'm still around. I just need a break to put things into perspective.

Is it quite rough to lose consciousness or is it more smooth, gentle and painless? I will CTB tomorrow if everything works out. Thank you for everyone helping me here on this forum.

Neither. It's instant, like flicking a light switch.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Don't worry about me, I'm still around. I just need a break to put things into perspective.

Hey Das Nichts. Yeah, @Mare Imbrium thought you had maybe ctb'd, along with Gasmonkey. He'll be glad to still have your expertise around!

Is it quite rough to lose consciousness or is it more smooth, gentle and painless? I will CTB tomorrow if everything works out. Thank you for everyone helping me here on this forum.

Best of luck if you go through with that tomorrow!

 

[antilife]

I must say, I'm very glad this thread and you people exist. Thank you for helping each other out, it's not something I take for granted.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Does anyone know the correct technical term for this?
The hole in the middle of the male connector.

 

[oono]

Hello, in a few months I will probably do it with the SCUBA method (rubber scuba diving mask). Do you have any advice to give me ?
I would like to do it in a hotel room, I think I need to bring a large suitcase to put the gas bottle surrounded by some clothes so it doesn't look suspicious.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Yes, I am so glad, that Das Nichts is back again! He helps us all with his knowledge.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Hello, in a few months I will probably do it with the SCUBA method (rubber scuba diving mask). Do you have any advice to give me ?
I would like to do it in a hotel room, I think I need to bring a large suitcase to put the gas bottle surrounded by some clothes so it doesn't look suspicious.

The search bar is working again... SCUBA megathread here.

Does anyone know the correct technical term for this?
The hole in the middle of the male connector.


View attachment 121562

What's that connector for? I thought you were connecting the hood hose directly to the regulator barb?

 

[ClownWorld2023]

What's that connector for? I thought you were connecting the hood hose directly to the regulator barb?

That image is just for illustrative purpose.

I'm trying to determine the exact type of male connector that was used for my EEBD hose.

I think I may have found the thread size, but I will need to wait for the adapters to arrive to confirm it.


The only problem: The hole in the male connector is really small as seen here.
On that photo it's not visible because of the lighting, but the actual hole through which the breathing air passes, is not even a millimeter wide.


I'm wondering whether that will cause issues.


And I wish I knew the correct technical term for it already.
I skimmed countless of websites and articles online for hours but was still not able to find anything.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Why are you leaving that connector on the hose? Does it fit onto a coupling/coupler?

Why not just cut the connector off and attach the hose directly to the regulator hose barb, like k1w1 and others did?
Did your regulator come with a hose barb like this? :

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Why are you leaving that connector on the hose? Does it fit onto a coupling/coupler?

I managed to remove the hose from the regulator, something which apparently isn't possible on all EEBD sets.
I was really happy when I did, so I want to try to connect it using an adapter first.

Adapter should arrive this week.

Why not just cut the connector off and attach the hose directly to the regulator hose barb, like k1w1 and others did?
Did your regulator come with a hose barb like this? :

View attachment 121573

I'm just afraid of modifying the hose because I'm all thumbs.

If the adapter doesn't work at all, or I run into some other issue, I will modify the hose.




Anyway I should probably stop posting for the time being.
I think I gave @ztem and everyone else enough of a headache.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Is it quite rough to lose consciousness or is it more smooth, gentle and painless? I will CTB tomorrow if everything works out. Thank you for everyone helping me here on this forum.

I did a blackout test with my SCUBA setup and it wasn't rough at all. It felt more like falling asleep, maybe a little bit more strange. It also goes really fast and no suffocating feeling. I also guess SI isn't a big issue here, because you don't have the feeling that you're dying.

 

[oono]

The search bar is working again... SCUBA megathread here.

Thank you, this method seems easy to implement and effective, I will definitely go like that

 

[Glandular]

I did a blackout test with my SCUBA setup and it wasn't rough at all. It felt more like falling asleep, maybe a little bit more strange. It also goes really fast and no suffocating feeling. I also guess SI isn't a big issue here, because you don't have the feeling that you're dying.

Sounds good. Out of curiosity: Did you notice any smell? Did the gas feel cold? Basically, was there any difference between breathing air and pure nitrogen?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Sounds good. Out of curiosity: Did you notice any smell? Did the gas feel cold? Basically, was there any difference between breathing air and pure nitrogen?

I was, as you can read in my previous post in this thread, nervous. I was really focused on blacking out. So my judgement might be a little bit clouded on this aspect, but I didn't smell anything and it also didn't feel cold. I stored my cylinder at normal room temperature so that might have helped. If you look from a theoretical perspective it also makes sense. Normal air contains 80% nitrogen and doesn't smell neither. Divers basically have the same setup only without O2 and CO2 and their air is also not cold I guess.

 

[Glandular]

So my judgement might be a little bit clouded on this aspect, but I didn't smell anything and it also didn't feel cold. I stored my cylinder at normal room temperature so that might have helped. If you look from a theoretical perspective it also makes sense. Normal air contains 80% nitrogen and doesn't smell neither.

Thank you. I know the theoretical details - inert gas: colorless, odorless, and tasteless, non-flammable and so on. I've also seen videos of people passing out on inert gas more or less instantly and without knowing what's going on. But, well, better be sure about it. I guess if there were a smell the cylinder might be compromised.
Keeping the gas at room temperature is a good idea. Remove anything that could trigger SI.