Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[GasMonkey]

@rejected and @Archieozias got their cylinders at AirGas.

 

[shantyizlit]

seems like you guys are doing some very cool things in here, this shit is way too complicated for me as I am right now

 

[GasMonkey]

I have discovered the name of the quick couplers used in SCBA and some EEBD Hoods, they are called "Breathing air couplings". They are not compatible with the typical compressed air couplings and they're usually available for in 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" thread sizes.

This couplers enable the connection of EEBD hoods with such plugs directly to inert gas regulators (in EU most of them have G1/4" outlets).​

 

[Mare Imbrium]

It seems, that the standard O2 tubes used for exit bags have a maximimal flow of 15l/min, partly only 5l/min.
Do you have concerns about it?

 

[GasMonkey]

Nope.

 

[Readytogohome]

So I am still struggling with getting the right regulator in the US. The click-type one I ordered on Alibaba said Nitrogen, but the Chinese company sent one that said Oxygen. Their explanation was that they were out of the nitrogen ones so they just sent what they had available. Fortunately Alibaba agreed with me that this was not acceptable and refunded my money.

I found this argon/nitrogen regulator on amazon but the flowmeter is for argon SCFH. If my gas is nitrogen, what would I set the SCFH flow at, on this regulator?

 

[GasMonkey]

The best easily accesible regulator for CGA-580 regions is this $86 click-style cutie:



@rejected used it in her hood setup.

There are calculators in the interwebs to convert LPM to CFH.
15 LPM = 31,78 CFH.

In the case of this regulator the 30 CFH option of the selector looks perfect, that's equivalent to 14,15 LPM which will be higher with Nitrogen since it is calibrated for Argon. In an Argon calibrated flow meter the equivalent to 15 LPM while using Nitrogen is 12,7 LPM.​

Their explanation was that they were out of the nitrogen ones so they just sent what they had available.

So they took the body of an Oxygen (CGA-540) regulator and changed the connector to a Nitrogen (CGA-580) one?

 

[sanctions]

The best easily accesible regulator for CGA-580 regions is this $86 click-style cutie:

View attachment 116777

I have this regulator. I'm looking at buying an EEBD hood off ebay (picture below). But I don't know what adapter(s) to buy to connect the two together.

 

[berniesaka]

Hi I'm new here. Thank you for your help in advance. Is N2 90% good enough? I have found a machine, just plug in, with in-built pressure control, pressure meter and a out coming tube. It's for brewing beer. But it only produce 90% N2

 

[outrider567]

Hi I'm new here. Thank you for your help in advance. Is N2 90% good enough? I have found a machine, just plug in, with in-built pressure control, pressure meter and a out coming tube. It's for brewing beer. But it only produce 90% N2

No, its not enough, should be 99.0% or higher

 

[berniesaka]

No, its not enough, should be 99.0% or higher

What will happen if 90% is used?
I have a mask with these. But I don't know what there are and what else I need to get to connect this mask to gas.

 

[Das Nichts]

What will happen if 90% is used?

You simply won't die.

I have a mask with these. But I don't know what there are and what else I need to get to connect this mask to gas.

Did the mask come with a manual or is the model printed somewhere ? Is this a negative-pressure mask ?

Depending on your location you need the proper adapter from your gas cylinder to the g5/8 air intake.

 

[anonaon]

What will happen if 90% is used?

You will feel almost all symptoms of hypoxia but you won't lose consciousness & die

 

[GasMonkey]

@berniesaka are you from China?

 

[Readytogohome]

The best easily accesible regulator for CGA-580 regions is this $86 click-style cutie:

In the case of this regulator the 30 CFH option of the selector looks perfect, that's equivalent to 14,15 LPM which will be higher with Nitrogen since it is calibrated for Argon. In an Argon calibrated flow meter the equivalent to 15 LPM while using Nitrogen is 12,7 LPM.[/JUSTIFY]


So they took the body of an Oxygen (CGA-540) regulator and changed the connector to a Nitrogen (CGA-580) one?

GasMonkey, thank you for the regulator suggestion, I just purchased it. :)
Really appreciate your guidance on the CFH settings as well.

The Chinese company said they make some of their Oxygen regs with 580 bullnose connectors. I'm such a novice at mechanical stuff so have been grateful for your help, and that of Tired Horse and Vizzy and others, and all the resources on this forum, and ppeh.

 

[ztem]

The best easily accesible regulator for CGA-580 regions is this $86 click-style cutie:


I have this regulator. I'm looking at buying an EEBD hood off ebay (picture below). But I don't know what adapter(s) to buy to connect the two together.

View attachment 116784

First of all,you need extension air hose for your hood,that hose is short.First,I suggest you cut the end of the hose with a hose cutter:

Tube Cutters

Wide range of Tube Cutters. 15.000 products in stock and same day shipment

tameson.com

You have 3 options for connecting your two hoses together.I assume that the hose size of your hood and your extension hose is 1/4 inch(6.3 mm ID and 13.5 mm OD),otherwise you should measure the inner and outside diameter size of the hose with a caliper.
(The size of the barbed side of the hose barb or hose barb plug/coupler depends on the inside diameter of the hose you want to use.)
Option 1:
1 double hose barb+2 hose clamps
https://tameson.com/products/f295e-6-mm-1-4inch-stainless-steel-1p4301-hose-connector-40-2-pieces

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

tameson.com

Option2 :
1 male and 1 female NPT or BSPP(G) or BSPT or UNF or... hose barb(the thread standard and size of the male and female threads of the two hose barbs must be the same)+teflon tape+2 hose clamps

G 1/4'' Male x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar

Buy a G 1/4'' Male x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar online from Tameson today. Same day shipment with global shipping options.

tameson.com

G 1/4'' x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar

Buy a G 1/4'' x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar online from Tameson today. Same day shipment with global shipping options.

tameson.com

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

tameson.com

Thread Sealing Tape Extremely High Density PTFE 4.6m

Buy a Thread Sealing Tape Extremely High Density PTFE 4.6m online from Tameson today. Same day shipment with global shipping options.

tameson.com

Option 3:
1 hose barb plug(nipple)+1 hose barb socket(coupler)+ 2 hose clamps
(The style of the plug and the socket must be the same)
https://www.akvalvesltd.com/products/cejn-342-breathing-air-coupling?variant=31755171201129

Cejn 342 Breathing Air Coupling - AK Valves Ltd

Description This is a Cejn Series 342 breathing air quick release coupling, couplings are - AK Valves Ltd

www.akvalvesltd.com

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

tameson.com

To connect the extension hose to the outlet of your regulator:
The outlet of your regulator is CGA-032 (5/8-18) female.
So you need "male CGA-032 (5/8-18) to 1/4 NPT(male or female (the following example is 1/4 NPT male))" adapter:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

and then you need these two:
"1/4 NPT female to 1/4(6mm) barb" hose barb + 1 hose clamp

https://www.terrauniversal.com/connector-hose-barb-stainless-steel-1603-13.html

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

tameson.com

No matter which option you choose to connect your hoses,you need 3 hose clamps,2 for your two hoses and 1 for other end of the extension hose and your hose barb and don't forget to use the teflon tape for all of your male threads,If you use the teflon tape correctly,It will guarantee a leak-free connection.
Remember that in the gas industry, teflon tape and hose clamps are your best friends.

You can also buy all of these from a local store or whatever website that you want,these links are just examples about what you must buy for your fittings.

 

[berniesaka]

@berniesaka are you from China?

Yes I am

You will feel almost all symptoms of hypoxia but you won't lose consciousness & die

Oh I understand now. thank you

 

[GasMonkey]

Yes I am

Then you need a G5/8" female to G5/8" female adapter to connect your SCBA regulator to a Nitrogen cylinder. DOGMA67 did that, he was from China too.​

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

It's an exchange system with multiple exchange points throughout The Netherlands. You pay a onetime fee to get into the system and some money for exchanging a cylinder to a full one. But I can't find much information about quality of the gas and how easy it is for a private person to get a cylinder there. But it would be good if it's possible to refill them after testing or when they are empty for other reasons. I'll send you a pm with the name.

So I picked up the cylinder and no questions were asked. It was almost like ordering a take away meal.
Next step testing the quality. It is supposed to be N4.8.
Do I need to the decide on SCUBA/SCBA before I can test the purity? I am looking at "Flow restrictor for gas purity testing" in the setup from @GasMonkey and it seems to be connected to the adapter which is different for SCUBA/SCBA. Or is there a way to connect directly to the cilinder and test the purity? I still didn't buy anything, except for the cilinder, so all options are still open. The cilinder seems to have a normal European connection.

 

[GasMonkey]

After precise measurements, I have finally found the exact coupler needed to connect EEBD hoods with plug-in nipples to Nitrogen regulators: it has to be a CEJN or Parker breathing air coupler with a Nominal flow diameter of 7.4mm with the proper thread for your regulator, which can be found with filters in the search. This type of plug-in nipple is the same used in SCBA demand valves.

Example for a Nitrogen regulator with a male G1/4" outlet:​

This enables the direct implementation of a full hood setup without modifying the hose.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

So I'm still struggling to decide om my setup. I'm considering SCUBA or SCBA.
I can find both adapters but only the 200 bar version is in stock. I also can find a lot of SCUBA gear, but positive pressure masks seem to be rare.
Is it possible to lay underwater with a normal SCUBA in the bathtub to prevent oxygen from flowing in?
I'm facing different problems with SCBA. It seems like most websites in The Netherlands don't sell to private persons, since they require a company name and the adapter is also out of stock as I mentioned before.
Can someone point me in the right direction (by sending a PM)?
I'm also still struggling to find a suitable flow restrictor for testing the purity.

 

[befree]

So I'm still struggling to decide om my setup. I'm considering SCUBA or SCBA.
I can find both adapters but only the 200 bar version is in stock. I also can find a lot of SCUBA gear, but positive pressure masks seem to be rare.
Is it possible to lay underwater with a normal SCUBA in the bathtub to prevent oxygen from flowing in?
I'm facing different problems with SCBA. It seems like most websites in The Netherlands don't sell to private persons, since they require a company name and the adapter is also out of stock as I mentioned before.
Can someone point me in the right direction (by sending a PM)?
I'm also still struggling to find a suitable flow restrictor for testing the purity.

This is what two members of this forum just used for the nitrogen SCUBA method:

Ocean Reef Neptune III, Ocean Reef regulator, 5 L nitrogen, adapter for nitrogen W24.8 internal thread x 1/14"internal thread

(UK members: you need a different adapter ! )

You can order an adapter from Germany and also nitrogen or helium (EU and Swiss members). I can send you addresses.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Ocean Reef Neptune III, Ocean Reef regulator

I read that that one doesn't com with positive pressure which is necessary according the earlier posts of @GasMonkey . I'm only wondering if it really has to be PP.
So I think my preferred method is SCBA, but that seems quite difficult to get here.

 

[k1w1]

After precise measurements, I have finally found the exact coupler needed to connect EEBD hoods with plug-in nipples to Nitrogen regulators: it has to be a CEJN or Parker breathing air coupler with a Nominal flow diameter of 7.4mm with the proper thread for your regulator, which can be found with filters in the search. This type of plug-in nipple is the same used in SCBA demand valves.

Example for a Nitrogen regulator with a male G1/4" outlet:​

View attachment 116923

This enables the direct implementation of a full hood setup without modifying the hose.

Solid research Gas Monkey. Timely too. Thanks

 

[_nohope_]

That's unexpected I was sure he was using SN. Also interesting that it was covered (with photos) in Thailand even though he was living in Canada. In Europe they wouldn't cover something like especially not with photos. Thanks for the information.
Sorry I tried to quote GasMonkeys post where he wrote of Vizzys ctb. Didn't work.
Sorry I tried to quote GasMonkeys post where he wrote of Vizzys ctb. Didn't work.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

You can order an adapter from Germany and also nitrogen or helium (EU and Swiss members). I can send you addresses.

That would be nice. (It seems that I can't PM you).

 

[GasMonkey]

So I'm still struggling to decide om my setup. I'm considering SCUBA or SCBA.

SCUBA works on Negative Pressure and SCBA on Positive Pressure.
SCUBA is viable but you have to be completely sure that the seal is immaculate, with a perfectly shaved, clean face, perfectly fitting and tigthened mask.

In real world applications on land (industrial/firefighting/rescue) the use of negative pressure systems is inexistent, the standards of occupational risks prevention makes the use of positive pressure systems mandatory. In fact negative pressure Lung Demand Valves are no longer manufactured, they only exist for underwater use in SCUBA.
​

I can find both adapters but only the 200 bar version is in stock.

I'd press that "Question about item" option to ask the seller when are they gonna restock it.
​

I also can find a lot of SCUBA gear, but positive pressure masks seem to be rare.

Yeah they are mostly used only in certain professional settings, like diving in contaminated water.​

Is it possible to lay underwater with a normal SCUBA in the bathtub to prevent oxygen from flowing in?

You shouldn't be in water at all, cold has a protective effect that can increase the time to death.​

I'm facing different problems with SCBA. It seems like most websites in The Netherlands don't sell to private persons, since they require a company name and the adapter is also out of stock as I mentioned before.

The equipment in my setup is available in many on-line shops. There is a lot of equipment from this manufacturer that is available to be bought directly. For the equipment of other manufacturers you usually have to ask for prices, quotations, etc. You can search it in shops from other EU countries, doesn't necessarily have to be in your country. There is a guy from Malta that bought the equipment in a spanish shop. You can also search for cheaper equipment on eBay, a lot of folks have done that.​

I'm also still struggling to find a suitable flow restrictor for testing the purity.

That's widely available in a lot of SCUBA shops, but it has to be the proper one for your air-to-nitrogen adapter (DIN200 or DIN300).​

Sorry I tried to quote GasMonkeys post where he wrote of Vizzys ctb. Didn't work.

That's unexpected I was sure he was using SN. Also interesting that it was covered (with photos) in Thailand even though he was living in Canada. In Europe they wouldn't cover something like especially not with photos. Thanks for the information.

@Vizzy CTB'd in Thailand using a Nitrogen EEBD hood, that's something 100% confirmed since it was covered by 3+ thai newspapers and there are photos of him death with the hood on his head. Maybe he vomited like it usually happens with SN and went to the Nitrogen.
​

This is what two members of this forum just used for the nitrogen SCUBA method:

Ocean Reef Neptune III, Ocean Reef regulator, 5 L nitrogen, adapter for nitrogen W24.8 internal thread x 1/14"internal thread

Who is the other member (apart from @ertn) that used the Neptune III?​

 

[befree]

SCUBA works on Negative Pressure and SCBA on Positive Pressure.

This is not correct and does not apply to all full face masks. But I don´t want to start the whole debate again and refer to my previous posts.

It´s a waste of time to debate with certain members who think they know everything better. But they don´t.

 

[GasMonkey]

Yeah there are a few models that work on positive pressure and I was the first one to talk about that in the forum, but most models operate on negative pressure.

I find it funny how you get triggered every time that I mention some details that could imply that SCBA is better than SCUBA. ​

 

[befree]

Yeah there are a few models that work on positive pressure and I was the first one to talk about that in the forum, but most models operate on negative pressure.

I find it funny how you get triggered every time that I mention some details that could imply that SCBA is better than SCUBA. ​

Dream on !