Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[bythefire12]

You don't need to buy that separately if you get one of the "kits" of hood plus regulator right?

 

[GasMonkey]

No. Buying the regulator separately would be for regions with no EM regulator available, like Russia. In that case you would buy the EEBD hood only, a flow regulator for your region and an adapter to connect the hose to the output of the regulator.

 

[imcadt99]

Could anyone help me with LPM conversions? I've seen the chart for N2 gas -> Ar regulator but not the inverse.

For context I have an EM nitrogen flow regulator but I plan to use argon. At its max setting of 25 LPM of N2, what could I expect the Ar flow rate to be?

 

[GasMonkey]

There is a formula on Greenberg's blog to calculate that.

 

[imcadt99]

There is a formula on Greenberg's blog to calculate that.

That's the chart I've seen. I was confused whether the CFs were specific to N2 but rereading the article it seems fine.

Would it just be 25LPM (Ar) * [CF(Ar)/CF(N2)] which with the CFs would be 25LPM * [1.18/0.98] => 30.1 LPM?

I find it hard to believe that argon will have a higher LPM through a N2 regulator than N2 itself. Wouldn't I expect heavier gases to have a lower flow rate through regulators calibrated with lighter gases? Forgive my ignorance.

Edit:

---

Oh wait I think I may have this backwards. If I understand correctly, 30.1 LPM would be the required flow rate to achieve 25 LPM. So we actually want to solve for FR where FR*(1.18/0.98)=25 right? Where FR would be the real flow rate and 25 being the regulator setting?

Doing this yields FR=20.7 LPM. Does this sound correct @GasMonkey ?

 

[MelodyCymbal]

That study was done in rats, not sure how much of that extrapolates to humans.

Here's a case where doctors referenced the study in a case involving their patient. "Asphyxia due to accidental nitrogen inhalation: a case report". https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/102490791201900108

And here's a post about how nitrogen may cause convulsions more than helium. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-exit-bag-setup.45251/#post-821164

 

[outrider567]

Here's a case where doctors referenced the study in a case involving their patient. "Asphyxia due to accidental nitrogen inhalation: a case report". https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/102490791201900108

And here's a post about how nitrogen may cause convulsions more than helium. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-exit-bag-setup.45251/#post-821164

That was after they worked on him for three hours--Interesting that it says Oxygen levels below 25% will cause passing out in seconds(and death in minutes), nice to know for testing, lowest I got to was 45--In the second one, that was from an improper exit bag, which is not a worry with EEBD hood

 

[Adios Amigos]

EEBD hood

How does preparation with the EEDB hood differ from the bag? I.e from 15L/min with the bag as opposed to the hood.

 

[Sparx]

If anyone reading this is in the UK & considering the N2/SCBA method PM me.

 

[GasMonkey]

How does preparation with the EEDB hood differ from the bag? I.e from 15L/min with the bag as opposed to the hood.

With the EEBD you don't need to pre-exhale or hyperventilate since it has exhalation valves.
Flow rate is 15 LPM too, you can user a higher flow rate if you want (max is 25 LPM).

 

[groucho]

With EEBD hoods do you need to strap them down? Wondering if I slump over or convulse I'd knock the hood off enough for oxygen to get in.

 

[depressomartin.iis]

Hi, I wondered if anyone knew what regulator and flow metre I need to get for this helium canister?
Its contents is 0.42 cubic metres of helium.

I called company who explained that there is 420L contents so it should empty in about 45/50 minutes if set to 15L/minute But I dont know how to set the regulator/flow metre.

Not too sure if region affects this, I live in the UK

I'd appreciate any help! Thank you.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Hi, I wondered if anyone knew what regulator and flow metre I need to get for this helium canister?
Its contents is 0.42 cubic metres of helium.

I called company who explained that there is 420L contents so it should empty in about 45/50 minutes if set to 15L/minute But I dont know how to set the regulator/flow metre.

Not too sure if region affects this, I live in the UK

I'd appreciate any help! Thank you.

This 2 l bottle lasts 27 minutes with a flow of 15 l.

 

[GasMonkey]

With EEBD hoods do you need to strap them down?

Strap what? You body? Not really, if any movement happen it should be minor. I will strap me in my setup.

Wondering if I slump over or convulse I'd knock the hood off enough for oxygen to get in.

The hood always has a positive pressure inside so external air can't enter. The neck fit is tight.

what regulator and flow metre I need to get for this helium canister?

You need a Helium flow regulator capable of an output of 15 LPM.

But I dont know how to set the regulator/flow metre.

Flow regulators have a wheel to adjust flow.

 

[depressomartin.iis]

This 2 l bottle lasts 27 minutes with a flow of 15 l.

Its contents is 420L / 0.42m3 and the gas company I bought it from explained to me why its a 2L canister but its contents is 420L. Is 28minutes long enough?

Would 10LPM be effective?

Strap what? You body? Not really, if any movement happen it should be minor. I will strap me in my setup.


The hood always has a positive pressure inside so external air can't enter. The neck fit is tight.


You need a Helium flow regulator capable of an output of 15 LPM.


Flow regulators have a wheel to adjust flow.

Do you have any recommendations for a flow regulator capable of this?

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[GasMonkey]

Is 28minutes long enough?

Yep.

Would 10LPM be effective?

Nope.

Do you have any recommendations for a flow regulator capable of this?

Only for the standard of my region (EU), the UK is different. Every region has its own standard, even inside EU there are countries that use their own standard instead of the EU standard.

 

[depressomartin.iis]

Does anyone know any Helium flow regulators capable of an output of 15 LPM. In the UK standard?

 

[GasMonkey]

You can build your setup with Nitrogen too, maybe you have more options with it.
The Canadian source sells kits for almost all standard connections (including the UK one) but they work with Nitrogen.

 

[depressomartin.iis]

You can build your setup with Nitrogen too, maybe you have more options with it.
The Canadian source sells kits for almost all standard connections (including the UK one) but they work with Nitrogen.

Ahh i should have done that tbh. I've already bought the helium tank. Dont think i can return it.

 

[GasMonkey]

Helium is fine, a lot of people have used it successfully with extremely simple setups.

But you need to ask the supplier the purity rating of the gas, it says "Balloon gas" and nowadays most Balloon gas cylinders are mixed with Air, making them unviable to CTB.

 

[Elan123]

I'm in Canada and having challenges finding a source of nitrogen gas. I'm reading posts from people in the US,Europe and Australia where apparently it's possible to order 20-40 cubic foot tanks online and have them delivered.

In Canada it appears that unless you are a commercial entity then transport Canada don't permit shipping of full tanks

So it seems that I would have to have to pick up a full tank in person or buy an empty tank and have it filled/replaced in person.

There are a couple of main industrial suppliers here .

Aside from them I am researching other companies such as welding equipment suppliers, brewing companies but I haven't had any luck yet finding any places near me.

I will be making a list of all companies and contacting them to get more information

I was just wondering if there is anyone else here from Canada who could describe how they obtained the gas and the logistics involved

I know that it's not permitted to post names of suppliers but some general information would be useful for example if it was an industrial supplier of a brewing or welding supplier and if they needed to buy an empty tank first and do an exchange .

 

[depressomartin.iis]

Helium is fine, a lot of people have used it successfully with extremely simple setups.

But you need to ask the supplier the purity rating of the gas, it says "Balloon gas" and nowadays most Balloon gas cylinders are mixed with Air, making them unviable to CTB.

Ahh thats another issue. Hope its pure, otherwise thats a load of money down the drain.

If I do go the nitrogen route what cylinder contents is enough?

 

[imcadt99]

For anyone who has managed to get a complete seal using the Stickstoff Pressure Flow Regulator, what wrench did you use? I can't seem to fit my wrenches between the regulator gauge and tank valve:

 

[GasMonkey]

buy an empty tank and have it filled/replaced in person.

That's what @Wunderkind did, in fact he refilled it several times during his tests.

For anyone who has managed to get a complete seal using the Stickstoff Pressure Flow Regulator, what wrench did you use?

@Bengal used that regulator, too bad you can't ask him.
Maybe you could ask KLaw that.

If I do go the nitrogen route what cylinder contents is enough?

In theory a small 2L 200bar cylinder should be enough. But it's better to get a bigger one to have spare gas for tests and bigger safety margin. 5L 200bar is a very balanced size, bunch of gas and still small and easily manageable.

 

[efilist]

For anyone who has managed to get a complete seal using the Stickstoff Pressure Flow Regulator, what wrench did you use? I can't seem to fit my wrenches between the regulator gauge and tank valve:

View attachment 106572

When I asked Klaw, he told me to just tighten by hand, with a glove. That's what I did when testing, and it was just fine, no leaks.

 

[imcadt99]

When I asked Klaw, he told me to just tighten by hand, with a glove. That's what I did when testing, and it was just fine, no leaks.

That's what I tried to do but I'm pretty sure I've given myself tendonitis lol. It wasn't a problem for the Americana Regulator since it has a grip but the Stickstoff is giving me a lot of trouble.

To clarify, it isn't constantly leaking but if I pressurize the regulator and leave it at 0 LPM I'll hear a blast of gas after <1 minute. I'm worried it will leak after I go unconscious.

@Bengal used that regulator, too bad you can't ask him.
Maybe you could ask KLaw that.

I reached out to him, hoping he'll recommend something. I really don't have a lot of space to work with, only 1/2 inch ideally and 3/4 of an inch as an absolute max between the regulator and the tank valve. I haven't seen a single monkey wrench under 1 inch in width that also has a max jaw width of ~3 inches.

 

[Babumax]

I use channel lock pliers.

That's what I tried to do but I'm pretty sure I've given myself tendonitis lol. It wasn't a problem for the Americana Regulator since it has a grip but the Stickstoff is giving me a lot of trouble.

To clarify, it isn't constantly leaking but if I pressurize the regulator and leave it at 0 LPM I'll hear a blast of gas after <1 minute. I'm worried it will leak after I go unconscious.


I reached out to him, hoping he'll recommend something. I really don't have a lot of space to work with, only 1/2 inch ideally and 3/4 of an inch as an absolute max between the regulator and the tank valve. I haven't seen a single monkey wrench under 1 inch in width that also has a max jaw width of ~3 inches.

I use channel lock pliers. Just to make it snug

 

[outrider567]

Whenever I do a test with the EEBD hood(to see how low my oxygen level goes after breathing in the Nitrogen), beforehand I always put out my suicide notes and books on a table, because there's always a chance I may take the test too far and CTB before I'm really ready

With EEBD hoods do you need to strap them down? Wondering if I slump over or convulse I'd knock the hood off enough for oxygen to get in.

The EEBD hood is too tightly fitting for it to be dislodged

 

[imcadt99]

Does anyone have advice on pre-filling the SCBA kit and how to operate the ON/OFF buttons on the demand valve?

Thanks

 

[GasMonkey]

Pressing the ON (front) button (which creates a constant flow) for a couple of seconds would be enough to pre-fill, displacing all the residual air inside the mask. It also engages the demand valve obviously.

The OFF (red) button stops the demand valve and it's obviously not needed when you are gonna CTB, just when you are testing stuff.​