Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[color_me_gone]

I bought a full EM SCBA kit (UK spec) that I'm not needing now (going by SN). But I don't know what to do with it. Can't get a refund from EM as I tested it and SaSu rules forbid me from offering it for sale/as a gift. Any ideas? Tried selling the mask on eBay but no takers yet.

What made you change your mind to switch to SN, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Sparx]

What made you change your mind to switch to SN, if you don't mind my asking?

N2 method wasn't peaceful for me with the SCBA mask, felt like I was suffocating when I was still a good 20/30 seconds away from unconciousness.

 

[color_me_gone]

N2 method wasn't peaceful for me with the SCBA mask, felt like I was suffocating when I was still a good 20/30 seconds away from unconciousness.

While I am currently not actively seeking to ctb, I too abandoned the inert gas method for the same reason.
Seems like SN is simpler, less costly, and seems to have a better success rate here on the forum.
If I were to change my mind again, I will use SN for sure.

 

[Sparx]

While I am currently not actively seeking to ctb, I too abandoned the inert gas method for the same reason.
Seems like SN is simpler, less costly, and seems to have a better success rate here on the forum.
If I were to change my mind again, I will use SN for sure.

Think I'll be just taking a shitload of benzos with AE and painkillers beforehand. I experienced tachycardia with the N2 method and it's completely painless.

 

[GasMonkey]

seems to have a better success rate here on the forum

What about the bunch of "SN failed" threads?

The inert gas method has been probably used by hundred of thousands of people (or even more) and I haven't seen a single medical report of somebody surviving (barring out the ones who were rescued by another person immediately obviously).

Meanwhile there is a bunch of medical reports of people surviving SN.

 

[outrider567]

N2 method wasn't peaceful for me with the SCBA mask, felt like I was suffocating when I was still a good 20/30 seconds away from unconciousness.

Try EEBD hood--I'm quite claustrophobic but hood doesn't bother me

While I am currently not actively seeking to ctb, I too abandoned the inert gas method for the same reason.
Seems like SN is simpler, less costly, and seems to have a better success rate here on the forum.
If I were to change my mind again, I will use SN for sure.

Don't know of any failures with EEBD hood, and its not claustrophobic

 

[tantheta]

@GasMonkey can the Americana Nitrogen Regulator I linked be used with a conventional Exit Bag? Might just have to go that route and forgo the SCBA since Im on a time crunch

 

[GasMonkey]

yep

 

[MelodyCymbal]

Please before you start anything - 1. read, 2. read and again read this very chapter: hypoxic death and the exit bag from here:
[link from our
[Resource] List of Resources

https://anonfile.com/Y6r094j3b2/oct_hand_zip

Clicked link and File no longer exists

 

[GasMonkey]

Did you expect a link from 5 years ago to work?

 

[MelodyCymbal]

Starved of oxygen, cells in your body begin to die, everywhere, including the brain.
Within a couple of minutes after you become unconscious, a significant amount of brain damage has already occurred.
However, the body does not die completely until 28 to 40 minutes after unconsciousness.
If, for some reason, the flow was interrupted, the bag disturbed, the hose kicked off, whatever, and the body were to start receiving oxygen again, you could live, but be anywhere from mildly to severely brain damaged, ie:

Starved of oxygen, cells in your body begin to die, everywhere, including the brain.
Within a couple of minutes after you become unconscious, a significant amount of brain damage has already occurred.
However, the body does not die completely until 28 to 40 minutes after unconsciousness.
If, for some reason, the flow was interrupted, the bag disturbed, the hose kicked off, whatever, and the body were to start receiving oxygen again, you could live, but be anywhere from mildly to severely brain damaged, ie: vegetable.

Will you be taking any precautions to prevent the bag being disturbed, etc.?

 

[color_me_gone]

Will you be taking any precautions to prevent the bag being disturbed, etc.?

Two things:

1. I am recovering, so not actively seeking to ctb.
2. After seeing the difficulties TiredHorse, Smilla and others had in trying to overcome their SI, if I were to again want to ctb, I would use SN.

a bunch of medical reports of people surviving SN

That is true, because of Methylene Blue, which is a powerful antidote for methemoglobinemia.

The scenario is usually the person is either discovered, or the person themself decided to seek emergency medical treatment.

The antidote allows for complete recovery except for the most severe cases of methemoglobinemia (too much time elapsed since taking SN.

 

[tantheta]

Does anyone have images or instructional guide to setting up the Exit Bag? I have all the supplies needed and just want to make sure I execute properly.

Am I just securing the hose into the Exit Bag from the neck, tightening the elastic just enough to leave a slight opening (can someone specify how big of an opening?) for CO2 to exit, and breathing? Please lmk

 

[GasMonkey]

Does anyone have images or instructional guide to setting up the Exit Bag?

Everything about the ExitBag is on the inert gas chapter of the PPeH and PPH Essentials. They also have an advanced design to craft it.

 

[jolongone]

Are there any instructional guides on how to connect the regulator to the cylinder? Thanks

 

[jolongone]

I have also read that a mirror is useful, can someone tell me what for?

 

[itsallpointless]

N2 method wasn't peaceful for me with the SCBA mask, felt like I was suffocating when I was still a good 20/30 seconds away from unconciousness.

I'm going to experiment in a few days' time when I get my adapter. My security mechanism will be the latch on the demand valve. I'll take a few breaths, unlatch the demand valve then see how it goes. How did you conduct your tests and with what equipment? I am using an scba full face mask

 

[GasMonkey]

Are there any instructional guides on how to connect the regulator to the cylinder? Thanks

That's on the PPeH, it's not rocket science, you just need to tighten the connection with a wrench. xd

I have also read that a mirror is useful, can someone tell me what for?

That's on the PPeH too, to check the position of the bag.

 

[Sparx]

I'm going to experiment in a few days' time when I get my adapter. My security mechanism will be the latch on the demand valve. I'll take a few breaths, unlatch the demand valve then see how it goes. How did you conduct your tests and with what equipment? I am using an scba full face mask

I had a full face SCBA mask. I just held it tight against my face without fastening the straps so it could fall off if unconciousness was reached.

 

[itsallpointless]

I had a full face SCBA mask. I just held it tight against my face without fastening the straps so it could fall off if unconciousness was reached.

Did you prefill the mask with the on button on the demand valve?

 

[GasMonkey]

An adverse reaction to the gas could be due to some kind of contamination, maybe they gave you a N₂/CO₂ mixed cylinder.
@steve_s5 bought Nitrogen and when he went to the headquarters to pick it up they gave him an Oxygen cylinder LOL.

 

[itsallpointless]

An adverse reaction to the gas could be due to some kind of contamination, maybe they gave you a N₂/CO₂ mixed cylinder.
@steve_s5 bought Nitrogen and when he went to the headquarters to pick it up they gave him an Oxygen cylinder

He could buy a gas analyzer to ensure that didn't happen to him, but it also doesn't hurt to check if he didn't make any mistakes. Maybe he didn't prefill the mask which caused a co2 buildup, or there are exhalation valves on his mask he didn't open?

 

[GasMonkey]

Nah, not pre-filling doesn't cause any CO₂ buildup.

 

[Sparx]

Did you prefill the mask with the on button on the demand valve?

Yes tried that. It was a feeling of the regulator not delivering enough gas rather than a CO2 buildup.

 

[MelodyCymbal]

That escape hood has a respirator filter which is not the most appropriate. you might wish to compare that to what is being offered at escmode. best!

Does the EM EEBD hood obviate these instructions about expelling CO2 for the Drager hood? "Even if it is no longer supplied with oxygen, the body converts a large amount of existing 0 into CO2. When you exhale, an N + CO2 mixture can initially form in the mask. At the beginning, as much CO2 as possible should be exhaled to the outside.
You do this with a small hose, approx. 30 cm long, which you cut from the garden hose reel you bought and split lengthways with a kitchen knife so that only 2 of the three veins remain. Make the two-core piece nice and smooth too. You want to slide it under the mask, which brings a certain amount of leakage with it.
So you put the tube in your mouth before you put on the mask. And then: nose in - breathe out forcefully through the tube in your mouth. Even when the mask is on, you breathe out vigorously through the tube about three times while nitrogen is already flowing in. No fear! There is still quite a bit of oxygen in your body to begin with.
Then you slowly pull the tube out of your mouth and mask again and, if it still works, check that the mask fits properly again. The rubber lips of the inner mask will nestle against your face without any problems."

 

[GasMonkey]

The EEBD hood doesn't need any of that, you just exhale the CO₂ thru its one-way valve.

 

[MelodyCymbal]

It was reliable, cheap, and easy to get.
That is why it was so popular, and why they took action against it. :(

Final Exit recommends 40 minutes of gas for absolute guarantee of death.
Various body factors cause the time to death to vary from person to person.
40 minutes was determined to be unsurvivable in all cases, with some margin of error.
Final Exit recommends a flow rate of 15 liters / minute.
15 l/m x 40 m = 600 liters = 22 cubic feet.

8.9 x 2 = 17.8 cubic feet.
Sounds questionable according to Final Exit standards.

Is the 40 mins unsurvivable even if somehow the oxygen level in the bag is somehow above 10%? Or Would it just take longer to die? What's you ur opinion on non-rebreather mask as an alternative?

 

[GasMonkey]

The 40mins thing comes from the Dignitas study (where they studied subjects CTBing with Non-ReBreather masks) coz 1 subject took 40mins to die due to issues with the mask's fit/placement in the face (she had Air leaking into the mask). NRB masks, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, they are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air and can cause issues.

Needless to say that would NEVER happen with EEBD or SCBA (or a proper ExitBag). SCBA/EEBD would be completely useless in their real world applications (firefighting and emergency escape) if they let ANY external gas to be breathed by the user.​

 

[MelodyCymbal]

Exactly. As a firefighter/EMT we had it with our SCBAs. PPV: positive pressure

Are you familiar with EM's SCBA? I saw your earlier post above about fails with masks, but I was hoping EM's SCBA would be an improvement and more fail-proof than the traditional exit bag. For one thing, CO2 is supposed to get expelled through a one-way valve, so that solves the problem of how much room to leave in the elastic collar. Snug? Two fingers perpendicular to the neck?
On the other hand, Im not a techie & so Im a little intimidated about SCBA. What are your thoughts on it? Heard of successes and/or failures? Same goes for EM's EEBD hood.

 

[GasMonkey]

What are your thoughts on it?

@TiredHorse hasn't posted in 4 years, he's not gonna reply you, he's no longer around.

I saw your earlier post above about fails with masks

What post? I guess it's about NRB masks.

I was hoping EM's SCBA would be an improvement and more fail-proof than the traditional exit bag.

It is.

Heard of successes and/or failures?

I know 4 cases of people who have CTB'd with SCBA/SCUBA (and I suspect from another 3 cases from users that vanished after finishing their setups). There are many more obviously, that's just what I know directly. Both the EM EEBD Hood and SCBA have gone out of stock several times, so go imagine.​

Same goes for EM's EEBD hood.

The EEBD hood is really good, I have tried it, it's like an hybrid between the ExitBag and a NRB mask with the best of both.