US Supreme Court is set to overturn Roe v. Wade

[CrossroadsCurious]

I am having a civil conversation. Chill.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

I don't always agree with neurotypical, sex-having, incel-haters, but I guess I do this time around. Still, I do really want people to stop having sex (and stop exercising together with their sexual partners in my gym, like fuck off for real, do push-ups at home, you're not even lifting weights)... but that change would come about from me writing a book or something.

 

[T90-Alpha]

I don't understand all of the seething about the overturning of this law. THE OVERTURNING OF THIS LAW DOES NOT OUTLAW ABORTION COUNTRYWIDE. with this overturning, abortion will become the states problem to deal with, and the states will decide if they want to keep abortion legal, or not. all of the blue states will still have abortion, because the democrats will enact pro abortion policies.

abortion will differ to state to state, just like smoking pot. for example, in some states smoking weed is legal, while in other states it can be a criminal charge. in red states, abortion might be illegal, while in blue states it will be perfectly legal. if you don't want to live in a state that illegalized abortion, just move to a different state, its that simple

 

[YourNeighbor]

I don't understand all of the seething about the overturning of this law. THE OVERTURNING OF THIS LAW DOES NOT OUTLAW ABORTION COUNTRYWIDE.

It's true, you clearly don't understand what this is all about.

There is no overturning of a law involved. Rather, the draft decision would erase the constitutional protection that women currently have to choose whether to carry a pregnancy to term. The decision would allow government to make that decision for women.

We don't subject our freedoms of speech or freedom of religion to unlimited regulation by the states because these are basic protected freedoms. So too, according to the pro-choice crowd, the government should not be able to control a woman's uterus merely because she is pregnant. That is a tremendous power to grant government, and should trouble anyone who favors limited government. There are other implications, see my prior post, for other rights protected by the right to privacy. This decision necessarily makes those rights more tenuous.

By sending this issue to state legislatures, this decision will also deepen polarization and divides between Americans. Every election will be about abortion, and we will all constantly be distracted from greater policy issues. This decision, if it comes out as drafted, will be a disaster in many, many ways.

 

[deleted]

remember that conservatives (and pro-birthers by extension) make up the majority of pedophilia cases.

Lol ok

 

[DynamicDepression]

I don't understand all of the seething about the overturning of this law. THE OVERTURNING OF THIS LAW DOES NOT OUTLAW ABORTION COUNTRYWIDE. with this overturning, abortion will become the states problem to deal with, and the states will decide if they want to keep abortion legal, or not. all of the blue states will still have abortion, because the democrats will enact pro abortion policies.

abortion will differ to state to state, just like smoking pot. for example, in some states smoking weed is legal, while in other states it can be a criminal charge. in red states, abortion might be illegal, while in blue states it will be perfectly legal. if you don't want to live in a state that illegalized abortion, just move to a different state, its that simple

Yeah, just pack up and move! What do you mean that means leaving all your friends and family behind? What do you mean you have to quit your job? What do you mean you have to find a place to live? What do you mean you can't afford any of the above? Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and move! It's that simple!

 

[lili]

I had an abortion when I was 21 and I thought it was one of the best decisions of my life. I would have been a horrible mother and the kid would have surely grown up to be depressed. I was also suicidal, doing a bunch of drugs during the pregnancy. Why would I give birth for it to suffer?

I was completely unfit, no family to help me. Barely any finances.

My own mother has told me a few times that her greatest regret in life is to not have had an abortion. I grew up always asking myself why am I alive. I didn't ask to be born and she didn't want me to be born. I guess I am born. But some people are just unfit to be parents.

When I had my abortion, at least I knew I was going to be an unfit parent, and I spared the kid the suffering and my own suffering of being a mother when I didn't want that. People should be more empathetic with this. Yes, maybe I should have had protected sex. But I didn't. So are we going to then because of that mistake prohibit a human right that would save a lot of suffering? Because I didn't have protected sex, would the kid deserve to live a bad life?

 

[Someone123]

Demand and supply, eh?!
You are seeing babies and their "producers" as a resource and completely disregarding the human sacrifice women have to make.

I am not seeing it that way- I am explaining how many adopters of children are proven to view it- I believe that people who are looking to adopt should first adopt the children in foster care unhtil none are left, but in reality instead of doing this many adopters spend large amounts of money to adopt babies, sometimes from overseas. You are totally misinterpreting my intent.

1) A fetus is not a part of the womans body. It is a seperate entity (evidence by its own unique gentic code) that happens to be attached and inside the womans body.

2) Yes a fetus is a baby, albiet an unborn one. It's not like its going to magically turn into an animal or something else. It's a human being from conception to birth to old age to death.

3) It's disappointing to see so many people without any humanity or empathy casually talking about murdering a helpless human being. At least when this was first being debated abortion was being talked about as a necessary evil of last resort. Decades of brainwashing have turned it into just another medical procedure.

I agree completely.

 

[DynamicDepression]

I had an abortion when I was 21 and I thought it was one of the best decisions of my life. I would have been a horrible mother and the kid would have surely grown up to be depressed. I was also suicidal, doing a bunch of drugs during the pregnancy. Why would I give birth for it to suffer?

I was completely unfit, no family to help me. Barely any finances.

My own mother has told me a few times that her greatest regret in life is to not have had an abortion. I grew up always asking myself why am I alive. I didn't ask to be born and she didn't want me to be born. I guess I am born. But some people are just unfit to be parents.

When I had my abortion, at least I knew I was going to be an unfit parent, and I spared the kid the suffering and my own suffering of being a mother when I didn't want that. People should be more empathetic with this. Yes, maybe I should have had protected sex. But I didn't. So are we going to then because of that mistake prohibit a human right that would save a lot of suffering? Because I didn't have protected sex, would the kid deserve to live a bad life?

You did the right thing and I hope no pro-birthers will ever make you feel as if what you did was anything other than what was best for you and your potential child. Lots of love.

 

[Julgran]

To start with, I disagree with restricting the right of access to abortion in the first place. I disagree with prohibiting it and imposing childbirth, I disagree with slapping a price tag on it, and I disagree with the narrative that has emerged here which is essentially misogynistic shaming of any woman who has sex.

This line was particularly striking, the implication that rape victims are not as responsible, but still nonetheless somehow accountable for the utter violation that they have been subjected to by force. I can't believe this needs to be said, but rape victims are not responsible or to blame for the fact they have been raped at all.

You are implying statements that I didn't even write, and I have made my other statements clear in previous posts - you are free to read those posts to get a better understanding of my views on the issue.

 

[ThriveOrDie]

Murdering a baby and making the decision to end your own life are not the same thing!! I'm not surprised there are so many irrational people on a suicide forum though. Let the child make their own decision if their life ends up being horrible it should be their decision.

Yeah, just pack up and move! What do you mean that means leaving all your friends and family behind? What do you mean you have to quit your job? What do you mean you have to find a place to live? What do you mean you can't afford any of the above? Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and move! It's that simple!

Calm down. It is much easier to influence legislation on a state level. no one needs to move unless they want live in CA so they can kill their baby after it's born. And RVW is not law. SCOTUS does not make law.

 

[Someone123]

You did the right thing and I hope no pro-birthers will ever make you feel as if what you did was anything other than what was best for you and your potential child. Lots of love.

There was another option that would have been better for the baby, which was to give the baby up for adoption- some women do this and more women should. There are many good, stable homes who would love to have a baby, and if carried to term the baby could have gone to a home like this. Many mothers who hear their baby cry during the abortion process regret it deeply- if they don't hear the baby cry the fact is that the baby would have cried if it have the chance.

Let the child make their own decision if their life ends up being horrible it should be their decision.

Exactly.

 

[ThriveOrDie]

1. no, a fetus is 100% dependant on the body of the pregnant woman. You can compare it to a parasite that's growing and leeching in your body, especially if it's an unwanted fetus - you have every right to remove it, even more so if it's going to impact your life in a very negative way. As I said in my previous post, a fetus doesn't experience pain and isn't conscious when most abortions happen. The US doesn't even have proper childcare, maybe we should have a conversation about the well-being of already born children before we start going after humans who decide bringing a child into this life is the wrong decision. And as I've already pointed out in the past: anti-natalism brings forward many excellent arguments that support the decision to have an abortion.[1]

2. every definition of a baby refers to a born human.[1][2][3][4]

3. you can use emotionally charged language all you want, it remains a false talking point. Abortion isn't murder because murder describes the unlawful killing of another human without any justification or valid excuse.[1] There are plenty of very coherent reasons why a woman would want to abort a fetus. I don't know why you think it's a good idea to use anti-choice language in this forum. The pro-lifers call us murderers because we advocate for the right to die for consenting and autonomous adults and you're doing exactly the same thing to women who want to have a choice when it comes to questions concering their own bodily autonomy. If you're unable to have a civil conversation, maybe you shouldn't engage in this thread.

That was a total overreaction and disturbing to see such a reaction to someone else's opinion coming from a mod. What you wrote is an opinion just like the person you replied to. I think you believe what you wrote is factual. It does not matter how many citations you have. Humans don't control when life begins no matter how many definitions they make up.

 

[RainAndSadness]

That was a total overreaction and disturbing to see such a reaction to someone else's opinion coming from a mod. What you wrote is an opinion just like the person you replied to. I think you believe what you wrote is factual. It does not matter how many citations you have. Humans don't control when life begins no matter how many definitions they make up.

I mean... there is scientific research into this topic. There is a lot of it, okay. We know exactly when a fetus is about to become conscious and we know when it starts to feel pain. You don't feel pain without a central nervous system. And the idea that aborting a fetus in the first few weeks equals murder makes as much sense as telling a vegan they're murdering plants. It's beyond ridiculous. We're talking about a conglomeration of cells here, the early stages of pregnancy - because that's when most abortions take place. As I said, I'm surprised to see this argument in this forum. It's an attempt to win an argument with emotional punches, let's be honest. People who oppose assisted suicide call it murder. People who oppose abortion call it murder. It isn't murder in either of these cases - morally and legally speaking.

 

[Someone123]

As I said in my previous post, a fetus doesn't experience pain and isn't conscious when most abortions happen.

There are numerous accounts of women saying that the baby cried during the abortion process and that they deeply regretted the abortion once they heard their baby cry.

 

[lili]

Murdering a baby and making the decision to end your own life are not the same thing!! I'm not surprised there are so many irrational people on a suicide forum though. Let the child make their own decision if their life ends up being horrible it should be their decision.

I understand what you mean. But when I had my abortion, the thing didn't even have a heart. No brain. If it has no heart and no brain, is it even a baby? Is it even a human? It's nothing. How can I kill something that doesn't exist yet?

 

[deleted]

Except those two things are actually horrible. Gay Marriage, interracial marriage, women's rights, and abortion aren't even remotely comparable to that.

So hypocritical for some to come on here and try to advocate for the right to die and do what they want with lives and body, but have an issue with this.

There's no way to get pregnant by accident, you don't slip on the floor and end up falling on a dick, there are a thousand and one ways to prevent getting pregnant and even one that is 100% effective, which is not having sex

 

[Someone123]

I understand what you mean. But when I had my abortion, the thing didn't even have a heart. No brain. If it has no heart and no brain, is it even a baby? Is it even a human? It's nothing. How can I kill something that doesn't exist yet?

It was alive, though. If it wasn't alive then why have an abortion?

 

[lili]

It was alive, though. If it wasn't alive then why have an abortion?

It wasn't because it wasn't breathing nor did it have a heart beat. I did a sonogram before the abortion. It was a tiny dot. It's as if someone decides to kill themselves and you measure their pulse, there is no heart beat, and instead of saying the person died, you insist the person is still alive.

What is your definition of someone being alive then, if you consider someone without a heart beat or not breathing to be alive?

 

[Chinaski]

one that is 100% effective, which is not having sex

This is a good shout, I'm sure the menfolk will be very respectful towards all the women who recognise the consequences of their irresponsible actions and decide to withhold sex from men throughout their lives, men will recognise this as being for the greater societal good and will definitely not endlessly piss and moan about it.

 

[Someone123]

It wasn't because it wasn't breathing nor did it have a heart beat. I did a sonogram before the abortion. It was a tiny dot. It's as if someone decides to kill themselves and you measure their pulse, there is no heart beat, and instead of saying the person died, you insist the person is still alive.

What is your definition of someone being alive then, if you consider someone without a heart beat or not breathing to be alive?

We all became alive from the moment of conception, but it is true that for you to do this when you did was a more ethical choice than later on when there is known to be more suffering. Still if the baby was carried to term and adopted this would be the best outcome.

 

[YourNeighbor]

We all became alive from the moment of conception...

This is not exactly true. Conception is not when life begins. Life on Earth began billions of years ago and hasn't stopped since. Our lives come from life. Sperm cells and egg cells are alive. The moral question more accurately is when does a fertilized egg become a human. It makes no sense to pin this moment at conception. A fertilized egg has no traits of what we call human, other than a full set of chromosomes. So do the skin cells you shed every day.

It also probably makes no sense to suggest that a fetus is not a human until natural birth. Nevertheless, even then, in no situation does the law compel a person to let another (even a dependent child) feed off them to survive, even if there is no other way for that dependent to survive.

 

[Someone123]

Conception is not when life begins.

Of course this is when life begins. From the moment of conception this living person is growing rapidly- we all began this way. Your shed skin cells are not similar because they are not living and growing with all the details of a person inside them in some form. We all began our lives this way.

 

[_Seeking]

I find it hypocritical for people here to want laws allowing for assisted suicide yet be for laws banning abortions. Anyone who thinks they are going to overturn Roe v Wade and then go on to allow assisted suicide for any mental and physical afflictions in the U.S. is not doing the math. But I guess, let's let women suffer and to hell with the rest.

This will only affect poor women, anyone with means can travel and have their abortions. It is the poor women that will be forced to provide more chattel for the corporations to make their cheap material goods. They are also the ones least likely to be able to afford birth control.

Some of these babies will be put up for adoption as the Evangelicals need more bodies to indoctrinate. This is how they keep the whole farce going. It's all quite sick to me.

 

[odradek]

There are numerous accounts of women saying that the baby cried during the abortion process and that they deeply regretted the abortion once they heard their baby cry.

What...? Get a grip man.

It was alive, though. If it wasn't alive then why have an abortion?

We all became alive from the moment of conception, but it is true that for you to do this when you did was a more ethical choice than later on when there is known to be more suffering. Still if the baby was carried to term and adopted this would be the best outcome.

Of course this is when life begins. From the moment of conception this living person is growing rapidly- we all began this way. Your shed skin cells are not similar because they are not living and growing with all the details of a person inside them in some form. We all began our lives this way.

Citations needed. This is the epitome of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

 

[TheBroken]

Abortion ...... always a hot button issue and the democrats are certainly going to try and leverage it to improve midterm election results. One thing has always puzzled me about the most extreme right's (versus middle or left's) position regarding life/spirit/soul beginning at conception ..... they never protest outside fertility clinics where thousands of fertilized embryos are thrown out, shipped off for scientific purposes, and meet other fates. Some claim to have data showing the numbers dwarf abortion clinics ...... so, where are the protesters at fertility clinics? Not poking the bear, I really honestly don't get it ...... regardless, this debate will never end and I do very much feel for women and their very personal decisions regarding pregnancies.

 

[motel rooms]

I don't understand why you guys just don't have Civil War 2 already. You know you wanna kill each other so bad you can taste it & the rest of us really, really wanna watch it.

 

[TheBroken]

I don't understand why you guys just don't have Civil War 2 already. You know you wanna kill each other so bad you can taste it & the rest of us really, really wanna watch it.

Pretty much - ingredients are all there. I think it's delayed because everyone is too busy ordering takeout whilst sitting on their 300 kilo asses watching daytime television because welfare is much easier than working.

 

[LongtimeLoser]

I'm moving to Canada if RVW is overturned. Who's with me?

There are numerous accounts of women saying that the baby cried during the abortion process and that they deeply regretted the abortion once they heard their baby cry.

A seasoned doctor will slit the baby's throat right before tearing it apart and extracting the pieces from the mother. I place all the blame on the newb dr.

 

[TheBroken]

I'm moving to Canada if RVW is overturned. Who's with me?

I'll move to Canada even if it isn't overturned. Speaking of the US's two border friends .... many people don't know that there are actually more illegal Canadians in the US versus illegal Mexicans. Of course now that every other country's illegals have decided to flow through the southern border the Canadians numbers could be taking the back seat.