US Supreme Court is set to overturn Roe v. Wade

[whatevs]

I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me, it's an interesting fact.

What I meant was that it's odd to me how people on a suicide forum could paradoxically be pro-birthers. The misogynist and incel aspects of it just come with every community, there's not a whole lot to be done there.

I think that more than pro-birthers some of us we just have conservative views, I think antinatalism is the norm in the forum. I personally don't really care about abortion, I came to the thread to stir shit up. But to me there's something weird going with the idea that abortion is healthy or a human right. Abortion is more like a last resort and the focus should be put on prevention.

 

[Julgran]

Healthcare is a human right.
Abortion is healthcare.
if you expect women to pay, so should men. After all it takes two.

What gives anyone the right to demand that anyone else - such as a doctor or a nurse - participate in an abortion?

I do agree that the man should also pay, if he abortion is a joint decision between the man and the woman.

 

[whatevs]

If that is supposed to be a counterargument to saying that abortion is healthcare, then that's a major strawman that ultimately has nothing to do with the argument.

Not really, it's just a funny pic that fits well in this thread. I think saying that abortion is healthcare is a dangerous blanket statement, sometimes it can be, sometimes it is detrimental. Just like maternity is sometimes harmful and sometimes gives people a purpose and belonging.

 

[DynamicDepression]

I think that more than pro-birthers some of us we just have conservative views, I think antinatalism is the norm in the forum. I personally don't really care about abortion, I came to the thread to stir shit up. But to me there's something weird going with the idea that abortion is healthy or a human right. Abortion is more like a last resort and the focus should be put on prevention.

That I definitely agree with. Preventing the need for abortion is undoubtedly a good thing, but we shouldn't prevent access to abortion because there will always be people who will still need that. As an analogy, we should try to prevent injury as much as possible, but we shouldn't deny people healthcare because they got injured.

Not really, it's just a funny pic that fits well in this thread. I think saying that abortion is healthcare is a dangerous blanket statement, sometimes it can be, sometimes it is detrimental. Just like maternity is sometimes harmful and sometimes gives people a purpose and belonging.

How is saying that abortion is healthcare a "dangerous blanket statement"?

 

[YourNeighbor]

There is much more to the draft opinion than merely whether the Constitution protects a woman's decision over whether she must carry every pregnancy to term.

The right to privacy also implicates freedom from government intrusion into: consensual sexual relations among adults; access to contraception; family relationships, such as how families define their family units and living arrangements (think laws only allowing nuclear, and not extended, families to live in a dwelling); and education decisions for children, among others.

Anti-choicers who rail against women's rights to control their bodies rarely consider the broader implications of eroding constitutional privacy protections. Alito's suggestion that those other rights are different from abortion "just because" is not a very convincing or meaningful legal distinction.

Users here might also be interested to know that Alito relied in part on a SCOTUS decision finding people to not have a protected constitutional privacy right to seek medical aid in dying when life becomes unbearable.

There are many other problems with this draft decision, including completely eroding the Court's legitimacy in its casual dismissal of precedent. A justice with integrity respects precedent even if it does not align with that justice's personal policy preference. The Court now is dominated by partisan hacks. We knew that already, and it doesn't bode well for American freedoms.

 

[noaccount]

@Al_stargate I ask you to think about how 'Third World' countries are defined not by particularly repressive laws, but by exploitation by the First World. American and European wealthy democracies are the product of impoverishing African, Asian, and Latin American colonies and banana republics.


Also the nuclear family is just an infernal engine for abuse and the exploitation of women and children.

 

[whatevs]

That I definitely agree with. Preventing the need for abortion is undoubtedly a good thing, but we shouldn't prevent access to abortion because there will always be people who will still need that. As an analogy, we should try to prevent injury as much as possible, but we shouldn't deny people healthcare because they got injured.


How is saying that abortion is healthcare a "dangerous blanket statement"?

Because abortion can be psychologically scarring and not always the right call. It's the definition of a blanket statement implying that is so good that it should be a human right.

For example, I would want the state to kill people again as a punishment or prevention. I'm European for context. Say for serial child rapists and murderers. But then, it would be a dangerous blanket statement to say that the power to kill people by the State is a good thing in all instances. For me, sometimes would be, sometimes would'nt.

 

[DynamicDepression]

Because abortion can be psychologically scarring and not always the right call. It's the definition of a blanket statement implying that is so good that it should be a human right.

For example, I would want the state to kill people again as a punishment or prevention. I'm European for context. Say for serial child rapists and murderers. But then, it would be a dangerous blanket statement to say that the power to kill people by the State is a good thing in all instances. For me, sometimes would be, sometimes would'nt.

I see your point, but I don't think it's perfectly sound. If you prevent people from having abortions, that does more harm than it does good. Just because people have access to it doesn't mean people have to go through with it. I'd say a better way to help people is to give the women who need abortions proper counseling to make sure it is what's right for them, but ultimately it is always their decision in the end.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

And hookup culture will finally die. Maybe meaningful, long term relationships will make a comeback. The family unit will be strong and society can rebuild.

Yeah, thats hilarious. Once people got a dopamine fix they enjoy they aren't going to stop getting it just because the laws changed.

I have zero sympathy for people who are crying about this but didn't complain about vaccines being mandated.

 

[YourNeighbor]

I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me, it's an interesting fact.

What I meant was that it's odd to me how people on a suicide forum could paradoxically be pro-birthers. The misogynist and incel aspects of it just come with every community, there's not a whole lot to be done there.

You're not going to have an insightful debate with SaSu incel members who think that women not lining up to give them blowjobs is equivalent suffering to those with debilitating physical and mental illness.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

You're not going to have an insightful debate with SaSu incel members who think that women not lining up to give them blowjobs is equivalent suffering to those with debilitating physical and mental illness.

Pure ad hominen. Completely unnecessary.

 

[noaccount]

On liberation and autonomy over one's reproductive labor:

https://azinelibrary.org/approved/PWSC-1-intro-read.pdf

 

[YourNeighbor]

No one should be forced to do anything - but going by your point of view, I agree that abortion should be legal, given that there is a doctor or nurse who can do the procedure safely, and that the woman can pay for it herself. This doesn't mean that abortion should be a "right".

The "right" in the US is used precisely in the scenario you would allow for abortions. No one forces any medical provider here to perform abortions--the issue is women's right to access abortions from willing providers.

 

[Julgran]

The "right" in the US is used precisely in the scenario you use it. No one forces any medical provider to perform abortions--the issue is women's right access abortions from willing providers.

I can agree with that

 

[YourNeighbor]

Pure ad hominen. Completely unnecessary.

Who dem cap fit, let them wear it.

 

[YourNeighbor]

Deal.

Let sluts who let men blow loads in them nonstop suffer.

Ah, the essence of the anti-choice argument.

Some of the women that will be affected by this decision will have been victims of rape and didn't "let" anyone do anything, not that it matters much to the anti-choice crowd.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Ah, the essence of the anti-choice argument.

Some of the women that will be affected by this decision will have been victims of rape and didn't "let" anyone do anything, not that it matters much to the anti-choice crowd.

First of all, let me explain that I'm not anti-choice, I'm just trying to show you how easy it is to dismiss any point you have by spouting ignorant shit like you did up there.

Second, boohoo. With any, ANY legislation, innocent people are hurt. Good luck to your cause, though. I hope you're able to keep RVW intact. Maybe your team has more of an impact with your protests than the RWNJs had with theirs.

 

[odradek]

Incel opposition to a woman's right to access an abortion is revealing. This is about bodily autonomy and privacy, your showing your cards by missing that with all this: woman are bad because they sleep with too many other guys, "killing" "children", "forcing" doctors and other nonsense opinions I have already forgotten. Speak to a woman, let alone a pregnant woman at any stage, in real life. Have conversations with people that are different than you, in real life. With no chance of sex even.

No, I suppose you'll continue in your echo chambers, creating your myopic fantasies of "how the world works". This seems more voluntarily than involuntary at this point... Good luck gents.

 

[Julgran]

Incel opposition to a woman's right to access an abortion is revealing. This is about bodily autonomy and privacy, your showing your cards by missing that with all this: woman are bad because they sleep with too many other guys, "killing" "children", "forcing" doctors and other nonsense opinions I have already forgotten. Speak to a woman, let alone a pregnant woman at any stage, in real life. Have conversations with people that are different than you, in real life. With no chance of sex even.

No, I suppose you'll continue in your echo chambers, creating your myopic fantasies of "how the world works". This seems more voluntarily than involuntary at this point... Good luck gents.

This particular post doesn't contribute to the discussion, for various reasons, but you are more than welcome to contribute to the discussion if you care to elaborate on your points.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Incel opposition to a woman's right to access an abortion is revealing. This is about bodily autonomy and privacy, your showing your cards by missing that with all this: woman are bad because they sleep with too many other guys, "killing" "children", "forcing" doctors and other nonsense opinions I have already forgotten. Speak to a woman, let alone a pregnant woman at any stage, in real life. Have conversations with people that are different than you, in real life. With no chance of sex even.

No, I suppose you'll continue in your echo chambers, creating your myopic fantasies of "how the world works". This seems more voluntarily than involuntary at this point... Good luck gents.

Cost hangers are coming back.

You won't be able to do anything to stop it.

Bwhahahahaa

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Incel opposition to a woman's right to access an abortion is revealing. This is about bodily autonomy and privacy, your showing your cards by missing that with all this: woman are bad because they sleep with too many other guys, "killing" "children", "forcing" doctors and other nonsense opinions I have already forgotten. Speak to a woman, let alone a pregnant woman at any stage, in real life. Have conversations with people that are different than you, in real life. With no chance of sex even.

No, I suppose you'll continue in your echo chambers, creating your myopic fantasies of "how the world works". This seems more voluntarily than involuntary at this point... Good luck gents.

You realize incels don't call the shots, right? The people who have fought against abortion for decades have been conservative midwestern families. If you're frustrated at the state of the country, I totally get that. My point is whether you realize it or not, every time posters like you and YourNeighbor start throwing that incel and touch grass nonsense, you're punching down. You're not even attacking the people who are actually oppressing you. Incels have no say in anything.

 

[Smart No More]

Bare in mind we're all here looking for ways to kill ourselves. (the genuine amongst anyway!). I know that's different to "killing" a baby, if that's what abortion is but if you're hoping for euthenasia in your natural lifetimes in the US then this issue clearly signifies the chances of that being much lower than even a couple of years ago.

I find it a bit odd that people looking to end their lives are so triggered over someone elses unborn fetus. Not that you shouldn't carem i just don't really know why. Honestly I think people just get triggered for kicks and argue for shits and giggles. That bothers me more than someone doing something that doesn't affect me in the slightest.

That is to say debates by those in the debate for the sake of it can be much more harmful than anything we're talking about here. Although I'm fully aware nobody takes SS members debates seriously it doesn't hurt to bring to light that we exist outside this forum and the point is valid for people unrelated to this thread or site. The issue exist with or without us. I'm just throwing a brief flash of light at it.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

You realize incels don't call the shots, right? The people who have fought against abortion for decades have been conservative midwestern families. If you're frustrated at the state of the country, I totally get that. My point is whether you realize it or not, every time posters like you and YourNeighbor start throwing that incel and touch grass nonsense, you're punching down. You're not even attacking the people who are actually oppressing you. Incels have no say in anything.

Yeh I do find it odd that people say it's incels against it. The typical anti abortion demographic is a very fertile midwestern mom

If anything id guess incels are more likely to be pro abortion for a number of reasons but I haven't seen polling in the subject . Too hard of a demographic to poll

 

[Smart No More]

I don't think incels are a factor in it. No more than anyone else. Incels are seemingly varied in opinions and outlooks. The only defining common factor being their celibacy. I'm aware of the negative connotations to the term incel and am abhorrent of those that fit that particular mold but there are seemingly some that don't. I think it's true to say the incel community is divided on that particular matter. That's another story though.

FWIW I'm not an incel in any form.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

I personally don't really care about abortion, I came to the thread to stir shit up.

I love this.

Yeh I do find it odd that people say it's incels against it. The typical anti abortion demographic is a very fertile midwestern mom

If anything id guess incels are more likely to be pro abortion for a number of reasons but I haven't seen polling in the subject . Too hard of a demographic to poll

Because its safe to point at anyone who disagrees with you on a forum full of suicidal people and claim that they're an incel. It would actually take some guts to, oh, I don't know, take some of the action to politicians and people who pass bills and whatnot.

But only incels do crazy antisocial things like that, so I guess its checkmate, ironically.

 

[Chinaski]

And that the woman can pay for it herself. This doesn't mean that abortion should be a "right".

An abortion should be free, at the point of need and request, and the only reasons to refuse an abortion are when the woman has been coerced into it or there are potentially severe impacts on the health of the individual.

It's weird how this forum seems to consider anyone not wittering on about how euthanasia should be free and on demand to all are pro-life fascists yet so many people here think people should be priced out of practically everything else.

 

[odradek]

This particular post doesn't contribute to the discussion, for various reasons, but you are more than welcome to contribute to the discussion if you care to elaborate on your points.

Agree to disagree on the first point. An example of why I try not to engage with bad faith arguments, your forcing doctors point. First, that will never happen and second, there's something called the Hippocratic Oath. I don't feel like elaborating further because your point is either ignorance or bad faith and I only have so much energy dude. I am baked RN.

Cost hangers are coming back.

You won't be able to do anything to stop it.

Bwhahahahaa

Charming.

You realize incels don't call the shots, right? The people who have fought against abortion for decades have been conservative midwestern families. If you're frustrated at the state of the country, I totally get that. My point is whether you realize it or not, every time posters like you and YourNeighbor start throwing that incel and touch grass nonsense, you're punching down. You're not even attacking the people who are actually oppressing you. Incels have no say in anything.

I was just making an observation of this forum and opinions on it, not the the systems we live in. There is nuance everywhere in life. Also I was only talking about people's opinions and how they are formed, no punches were thrown.

But this is clearly a digression. My apologies, I shall derail no further. But get better opinions my guys.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I love this.

Because its safe to point at anyone who disagrees with you on a forum full of suicidal people and claim that they're an incel. It would actually take some guts to, oh, I don't know, take some of the action to politicians and people who pass bills and whatnot.

But only incels do crazy antisocial things like that, so I guess its checkmate, ironically.

Yeh for the guy who doesn't care about abortion I'm really sort of in the same boat

On one level I'm really against it because I just find it disgusting and always felt like it was murder

On the other hand it will help with overpopulation and culling crack babies

If the title of this thread was "UN to invade every county and make abortion legal worldwide" I probably would still be here trolling

 

[Julgran]

An abortion should be free, at the point of need and request, and the only reasons to refuse an abortion are when the woman has been coerced into it or there are potentially severe impacts on the health of the individual.

I definitely agree with this - so far as the woman is willing to pay the full cost - in case the man isn't part of the decision to abort their baby - and also if there is a willing doctor or nuse who's willing to carry out the abortion - and the woman and/or man is willing to pay the full cost for the abortion.

It's weird how this forum seems to consider anyone not wittering on about how euthanasia should be free and on demand to all are pro-life fascists yet so many people here think people should be priced out of practically everything else.

I'm not sure what you mean, but you are free to elaborate on thits point, if you wish.

 

[Chinaski]

I'm not sure what you mean, but you are free to elaborate on thits point, if you wish.

I mean access to abortion should not be determined by the financial status of the person who wants it.