I don't know man.I don't understand why you guys just don't have Civil War 2 already. You know you wanna kill each other so bad you can taste it & the rest of us really, really wanna watch it.
Allowing assisted suicide is letting a person decide for themselves when they want to end thier life, which makes sense to me. Allowing abortion means letting a person decide when to end another person's life- in this case an innocent, defenseless baby who has had no chance at life outside the womb.
Zygotes divide into multiple cells that then differentiate. There is no question that zygotes are alive.
Louder for the people in the back. Seriously, there's a difference between being alive and being sentient. Anti-abortionists, how do you explain that murder is wrong when the living thing is not sentient?
I am not making anything like that argument. See my posts above. But the whole "when does life begin" argument is a red herring and nonsensical.
I also support the mission to improve conditions of raising children, but how is this incompatible with abortion being legal? Does legal abortion really undermine this mission, or are you simply morally opposed to abortion?
Why should we consider living fetuses to be "people" if they are not sentient? I would think sentience is required for personhood.
There is no way to know what a zygote feels, but we do know that id this life is not stopped that it will grow into a full grown person unless there is some medical issue during the process.
There is every reason to believe that plants are sentient, that they do experience pain and pleasure as part of their lives. I do believe that being vegan reduces suffering by other living things quite a but, based on conditions in factory farms, etc. But vegans often believe that plants don't experience pain and pleasure just because they want to believe it, and because plants can't communicate in the way that animals do. There is every reason to believe that plants feel pleasure and pain like all living things.
Except we do know what a zygote feels. It has no nervous system, so it certainly feels nothing. And why is it murder if it isn't a person yet?
Plants, along with human fetuses, don't have capacity for self-consciousness. The truth is that pain and pleasure are not "felt" without consciousness. Plants only "feel" things in the sense that they can respond to stimuli. Your scientific claim is only backed up by sensational journalism that misrepresents the science.
You are stopping something that will grow into a person. Plus it is proven that a central nervous system isn't the only way that living thines feel sensations- besides it's common sense that just because an organism is designed differently and doesn't have a "central" nervous system doesn't mean it can't feel.
There is no way anybody can know this for certain, but since all living things appear to feel it certainly makes sense that plants do as well. What could a plant do to convince you that it feels sensation? You just believe this because you want to, not because it can be proven.
Right, so you're doing it before it's immoral because it isn't conscious yet.
Like what? And which of those things does a zygote have? (I'll wait)
As long as we define what it means to "feel," we can scientifically determine which organisms can feel or not. Fetuses don't "feel" in any meaningful definition of the word that would influence abortion rights, because they don't have consciousness.
it's immoral because it is living and growing and this is the first stage of being human- a stage we have all gone through.
Much of the details of science is unknown, and this may be unknown, but we doi know this is a living entity that is growing into a fully develoiped person, and stopping this is killing this- it is killing a person in the first stage of being a person.
Nobody has a perfect understanding of what it is to "feel" ot to have consciousness, but we do know that this zygote is in the first stage of being a person, and that it is living and growing at an exponential rate.
A fetus is not the first stage of "being" a person, it is in the stages of "becoming" a person. You in your own writing say it is not yet a person:
If it is not yet a person, then it is not in a stage of personhood. You contradict yourself.
Words are imprecise and I am writing this quickly, so you can nitpick on the words, but the fact is that from the moment of conception this is a person- the zygote is the first stage of being a person. If you stop a life you are killing this being, this is murder.
I believe that is unknown, but that there are different types on consciousness, and that this is a question we may never know the answer to- I certainly believe it is possible.
If you had to choose between saving a 22 year old woman from torturous death or
They are sentient. Abortion does not prevent child abuse or poverty. Actually it worsens these things. Believe it or not we are actually underpopulated not overpopulated. The people who rule over us want to reduce the population to like 500 million worldwide as suggested by the Georgia Guidestones. If u take too many pple out there will no longer be a high standard of living. The thing is abortion does not exist in nature. Aside from the occasional mother abandoning a baby or the rare case of infanticide. Usually most women will produce some surviving children although abortion is more likely to cause women to avoid pregnancy entirely because it's more convenient not to have to be pregnant and not all women immediately desire to be mothers even though we are given the equipment to produce a child. Many women don't immediately want a child until it is physically there outside the womb and then it becomes real that u are now a mother.
That's like asking- would you rather lose your eyesight or your hearing- neither option is great. It's not worth it to worry about an unrealistic scenario that has no good choices. On this issue especially I think it is best to focus mental energy on practical, real-world choices.
So you believe that aborting fetus is morally same ( or somewhat equivalent ) as letting a person die brutal death?
1. This is not unrealistic scenario there definitely were many similar cases in history
Some of the fetuses are chopped apart in the womb and cry during this process, so this is a brutal death- I think they are both terrible deaths- of living people.
If u think it's normal to abort babies why did I experience trauma from aborting all my 5 children? If this is so normal and without causing harm? It was destructive for me to lose my children and I understand that I'm responsible for making bad decisions but abortion of all my kids was a bit extreme. I was not unscathed from having my children terminated. I live with the remorse and pain everyday
I made the choice to terminate in haste and under stress not like I felt that it was going to be ok.An experienced doctor knows to slit the throat of the baby before beginning the procedure of chopping it apart inside the mom. Allowing the woman to hear the screams of her dying child is a rookie mistake. The cries can sometimes cause an immediate bound between mother and child.
They're not sentient. Do you think sentience is supernatural, or biological? Abortion does reduce poverty, because a majority of abortions are performed to reduce impoverishment of families. "Abortion does not exist in nature" is a terrible moral argument. Morality doesn't depend on what is natural. And your last sentence is very anti-choice, so many problems with it, but I'll pick one: even if it was true that most women would change their mind and want their child if it was forced to be born, that is not enough to say abortion is not any woman's right.
I'm really sorry, that sounds like a painful experience. Ideally there are no unwanted pregnancies, but abortion should still be a right.If u think it's normal to abort babies why did I experience trauma from aborting all my 5 children? If this is so normal and without causing harm? It was destructive for me to lose my children and I understand that I'm responsible for making bad decisions but abortion of all my kids was a bit extreme. I was not unscathed from having my children terminated. I live with the remorse and pain everyday
Well slitting the throat of a baby who is capable of crying is also extremely cruel, this is in no way humane- this does not eliminate severe suffering on the part of the baby, this just hides it.
If there really are, then there are numerous FALSE accounts. Also the vast majority of women who have abortions do NOT regret it.
No. No one credible has ever described this as happening, and you really ought to quit repeating this lie. There was one abortionist who was doing ILLEGAL stuff--maybe he is one who would "abort" a full term fetus, as in a baby getting ready to be born. That's illegal already, and the guy (Gosnell) is in jail for murder. The fact that you are repeating lies over and over again tells me you don't have an actual good argument other than your personal feelings.
