Discussion (SN) We need to seriously question the 25g recommendation

[Goku Black]

as I also think there needs to be more thought & documentation on the amount of SN people use in their ctb attempts. @depressedlover actually was originally going to go with 25g's. But in part thanks to my aforementioned thread & the fact she was 110lb I think she successfully ctb'ed with 17.5g's in the end as that was what was recommended in the table she posted in her post #98 here; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/goodbye-my-watch-has-ended.118396/page-4

My question is, how do we go about having more thought and documentation on the amount of sn people use for their sn attempt. Thing is things have changed from years ago when we had members observe the sn ctb attempt of members and now, it's nowhere near as it was back then for one reason or another. Even if we do have documentation about how smaller amounts effect the body compared to the recommended amount which a majority of users have ingested throughout the years, I don't think we can come to a conclusion as to what amount is ideal for everyone, it comes down to a few other factors as well like current health conditions and how could it affect the users experience as opposed to someone who doesn't.

That table was used for a while but for some reason, it ceased to be used as a way to measure the amount of sn per weight.

 

[Toobrokentofix]

I swallowed 2.6g of sn wrapped in a rizla. No other recommended meds. Gave me the most incredibly painful head for 24 hours and couldn't walk straight but wasn't sick and clearly did not die

 

[losing hope]

In terms of more thought & documentation, it would be good to see something like that SN success & failures thread here which documents the amount of SN used v the outcome. Or that list that @Vizzy did on SN results. Personally I am keeping an eye on what amouts people ctb with & def think the ideal amount for most people is not always 25g's

 

[Goku Black]

In terms of more thought & documentation, it would be good to see something like that SN success & failures thread here which documents the amount of SN used v the outcome. Or that list that @Vizzy did on SN results. Personally I am keeping an eye on what amouts people ctb with & def think the ideal amount for most people is not always 25g's

So what you're basically asking for is updated iteration of SN successes and failures which document the specific amount used for each user and the outcome. That still gets us no closer to the ideal amount but rather that each reaction will be different for the user and we can't ignore the fact that some users will access to meds that others will not, like having Benzos for example.

Most people still ctb with 20-25g, it's the highest amount that gives it the best chance to ctb, maybe less could still work in some cases but that's not enough to say 25g is not always the best amount.

I swallowed 2.6g of sn wrapped in a rizla. No other recommended meds. Gave me the most incredibly painful head for 24 hours and couldn't walk straight but wasn't sick and clearly did not die

Can I ask why you did this?

 

[Meditation guide]

Taking a small amount wrapped up so the outer part has to dissolve in stomach acid gives the body time to counteract it.

There have been cases when people took a pinch of it by mistake in a bowl of oatmeal and 9 hours later died, but it took time while a battle raged in the body which had to be pretty unpleasant. I am thinking of an old case where three men all ate bowls of oatmeal where the chef used SN by mistake instead of salt. Two survived, one died.

 

[Goku Black]

Taking a small amount wrapped up so the outer part has to dissolve in stomach acid gives the body time to counteract it.

There have been cases when people took a pinch of it by mistake in a bowl of oatmeal and 9 hours later died, but it took time while a battle raged in the body which had to be pretty unpleasant. I am thinking of an old case where three men all ate bowls of oatmeal where the chef used SN by mistake instead of salt. Two survived, one died.

it's still crazy how lethal sn can be where small pinches of salt can be really deadly even though it was excruciating process over 9 hours. This is why any amount above 6g still has the potential to cause nausea.

 

[losing hope]

So what you're basically asking for is updated iteration of SN successes and failures which document the specific amount used for each user and the outcome. That still gets us no closer to the ideal amount but rather that each reaction will be different for the user and we can't ignore the fact that some users will access to meds that others will not, like having Benzos for example.

Most people still ctb with 20-25g, it's the highest amount that gives it the best chance to ctb, maybe less could still work in some cases but that's not enough to say 25g is not always the best amount.

Yes I would like to see a table similar to that on the top of page 2 of the first attached doc. You'll see on that table case 3 only took 15g's of SN & despite hospital treatment & receiving Methylene blue (2 mg/kg) he still died. Which again proves 20-25g's might not always work for everyone. As Dot said everyone has to make their own mind up in how much to SN to take based on their weigh, age, health etc. But having more info here on the amounts successfully used to ctb, allows those same people to make a more INFORMED decision. Which is a good thing IMO.

Regarding the earlier discussion on the body naturally counteracting SN other than through vomiting. Read the second paragraph of the second attachment which I believe is from PPH. So the balance is taking enough SN to overwhelm the body's natural defences, but not enough to induce vomiting. Everyone has to decide for themselves what that balance may be, for instance it might not be good to go for 25g's of SN if you know you vomit easily.

 

[Goku Black]

Everyone has to decide for themselves what that balance may be, for instance it might not be good to go for 25g's of SN if you know you vomit easily.

This has long been something I'd like to be considered more, if someone has the issue of getting nauseous and vomiting very easily then a smaller dose should be the solution.

You'll see on that table case 3 only took 15g's of SN & despite hospital treatment & receiving Methylene blue (2 mg/kg) he still died. Which again proves 20-25g's might not always work for everyone

Nice to see the document I've shared with forum is being put to good use as well in terms of discussion. Yes it might not always be a good idea to go for the 20-25g range. Case 3 died because the large dose of sn he took made it so that a normal dose of 2mg/kg wouldn't have been effective so essentially, a large dose of methelyne blue has to counteract the SN, that's why the methelyne blue did not save him despite it being administered.

Dot said everyone has to make their own mind up in how much to SN to take based on their age, health etc. But having more info here on the amounts successfully used to ctb, allows those same people to make a more INFORMED decision. Which is a good thing IMO.

I'd like to assume that everyone whose chosen sn as thier method have looked at such factors and determined if it is the method for them instead of going for sn just because it's the popular method and therefore should go for it just because everyone else has. The thing is though, some amounts may work in some cases but failure can still happen. The user Retarded username took 21g of SN, didn't vomit it at all and didn't reach unconscious either for about an hour until medical personnel arrived, is this to say an amount of 15g would've worked better, I don't know.

So the balance is taking enough SN to overwhelm the body's natural defences, but not enough to induce vomiting.

I suppose the idea of taking the 20-25g is to go all out and take as much as possible to leave as little of a chance of survival as possible. I've long thought about amending the amount of sn to around 18-20g for myself since I have a pre-existing heart issue which will exacerbate the toxicity of sn so a high dose may not be necessary but I wanted to take it anyway to make sure or at least get as close as possible to make sure.

 

[Chass]

I've tried taking lower doses, probably maybe 5g? And only got sick. I'm not sure if that matters but it could be our body's reaction and if we eat before

 

[losing hope]

The user Retarded username took 21g of SN, didn't vomit it at all and didn't reach unconscious either for about an hour until medical personnel arrived, is this to say an amount of 15g would've worked better, I don't know.

I firmly believe @Retarded username didn't have SN but instead had Sodium NitrAte instead. Here's the thread & it seems ALOT of other members agreed with me on that point; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...l-in-my-experience.143117/page-2#post-2258253

@Retarded username hadn't tested the product beforehand (either blood or aquarium test) & later said their SN tasted "bitter" & like "disgusing salt" which again suggests they didn't have pure SN in the package. As numerous people beforehand have described the taste of SN as like "seawater". i.e. very salty. I wouldn't describe seawater as "bitter" or "disgusting salt" as sea water is supposed to be fresh salt.

BTW thanks for bringing that doc to this forum. The more info/medical reports on SN the better IMO. Again as it helps members be more informed when they need to choose how much SN to take. Another factor possibly to consider is how old is your SN?

I assume SN over 3 years old might not have the purity it originally had? So does that mean a member has to take more of that old SN to ctb? Or will that induce an illness like @Retarded username experienced?

 

[Goku Black]

I've tried taking lower doses, probably maybe 5g? And only got sick. I'm not sure if that matters but it could be our body's reaction and if we eat before

Yea, why would amyone eat before taking sn no matter the amount and no 5g is just the minimum lethal amount.

I firmly believe @Retarded username didn't have SN but instead had Sodium NitrAte instead. Here's the thread & it seems ALOT of other members agreed with me on that point; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...l-in-my-experience.143117/page-2#post-2258253

@Retarded username hadn't tested the product beforehand (either blood or aquarium test) & later said their SN tasted "bitter" & like "disgusing salt" which again suggests they didn't have pure SN in the package. As numerous people beforehand have described the taste of SN as like "seawater". i.e. very salty. I wouldn't describe seawater as "bitter" or "disgusting salt" as sea water is supposed to be fresh salt

Hmmm, I had the same suspicion too. You even asked a few questions on that thread which I did have the same thoughts of asking myself. It is very salty, I've tasted only a little but my sn was salty and nothing more, it may also explain why didn't lose consiousness even after not vomiting what should've been a lethal amount of SN. Only the case that's similar to this is to LoopyLou.


@losing hope even this case described sn as bitter, turns that what they got wasn't SN whereas @PrisonBreak, a user I spoke to a while back about their sn told me that they were intubated only after ingesting 10g in an impulsive attempt. I'd see why you said Retarded usernames attempt may have been Nitrate.

failed SN - not sure why?

last night i attempted: 1 hour before - paracetamol 45 mins before - domperidone 3 x 10g and propranolol 30 min before - 3 valiums took a couple mg melatonin and smoked some weed about 5/10 mins before SN drink - 20gm in 50ml water i'm so confused, i woke up this morning a bit drowsy but...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[puella]

I'm planning to CTB on the 31st of this month. I'll most likely use 15g of SN rather than 25g, as I won't have a benzodiazepine recommended in the PPH to lessen the painful symptoms. I don't want to risk using something other than oxazepam or diazepam.

I will post a goodbye thread with my protocol and basic medical information before I attempt to CTB, and I promise to post again afterwards to confirm if there is a failure.

 

[losing hope]

@losing hope even this case described sn as bitter, turns that what they got wasn't SN whereas @PrisonBreak, a user I spoke to a while back about their sn told me that they were intubated only after ingesting 10g in an impulsive attempt. I'd see why you said Retarded usernames attempt may have been Nitrate.

failed SN - not sure why?

last night i attempted: 1 hour before - paracetamol 45 mins before - domperidone 3 x 10g and propranolol 30 min before - 3 valiums took a couple mg melatonin and smoked some weed about 5/10 mins before SN drink - 20gm in 50ml water i'm so confused, i woke up this morning a bit drowsy but...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I remember that case very well, as I purchased my IC SN around the same time as that user @idkanymore21. So was worried that I might also have Epsom salt in my packet like that user. Hence why I am trying to get more SN at the mom.

 

[Goku Black]

I remember that case very well, as I purchased my IC SN around the same time as that user @idkanymore21. So was worried that I might also have Epsom salt in my packet like that user. Hence why I am trying to get more SN at the mom.

So you bought your sn around the time @idkanymore21 did. It makes sense why you'd want to get more sn after hearing and reading about that, I'd have done the same because you just never know.

I think also this case took sn which turned out to be NitrAte.

I took my SN yesterday. Willing to answer questions

As title says, yesterday hit me hard. I essentially got confirmation that the one bit of hope that had been keeping me functioning, was a tremendous lie. And I suppose I’d been lying to myself as well. I mix the glass of sn. I gather a few mementos around me, of people I loved and some I still...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[losing hope]

So you bought your sn around the time @idkanymore21 did. It makes sense why you'd want to get more sn after hearing and reading about that, I'd have done the same because you just never know.

I think also this case took sn which turned out to be NitrAte.

I took my SN yesterday. Willing to answer questions

As title says, yesterday hit me hard. I essentially got confirmation that the one bit of hope that had been keeping me functioning, was a tremendous lie. And I suppose I’d been lying to myself as well. I mix the glass of sn. I gather a few mementos around me, of people I loved and some I still...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Here's another case of taking NitrAte which is almost identical to @Retarded username experience;

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-failure.31351/

With SN being impossible to buy in the UK now. Say if I take my IC SN in 3 years time, I am worried some of it may be SN (say 80% & some of it being converted to nitrAte). Hence why these cases & the bitter taste of nitrAte are of interest to me.

 

[Goku Black]

Here's another case of taking NitrAte which is almost identical to @Retarded username experience;

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-failure.31351/

With SN being impossible to buy in the UK now. Say if I take my IC SN in 3 years time, I am worried some of it may be SN (say 80% & some of it being converted to nitrAte). Hence why these cases & the bitter taste of nitrAte are of interest to me.

Exactly, it's really identical how it went.

Hmm I see, so you've had the IC sn for 3 years now but then haven't you tested it to see if it's changed to Nitrate because unless it was exposed to high humidity and moisture then I'd still think it's fine but it's best to test it either for the sake of not ending up like any of these cases.

 

[Meditation guide]

I'm putting in my two cents as someone who was here three years ago. I never saw anyone survive taking SN without going to the hospital. I recall one person who stated he weighed over 300 pounds continue to chat for an hour after taking SN, without even vomiting. Then he left and never came back.

What I'm seeing now with failure after failure, or people just sleeping it off like a night of partying, is an unsolved mystery. I also am seeing it begin after the New York Times article. Also the scarcity of obtaining SN may be a factor if people are getting sodium nitrate labeled as sodium nitrite.

The bottom line is pure sodium nitrite is a powerful fast acting poison that knocks people unconscious if taken in the amounts suggested, usually in under 15 minutes.

 

[Goku Black]

I never saw anyone survive taking SN without going to the hospital. I recall one person who stated he weighed over 300 pounds continue to chat for an hour after taking SN, without even vomiting. Then he left and never came back.

Hakku right? He even took coke with sn if I recall.

What I'm seeing now with failure after failure, or people just sleeping it off like a night of partying, is an unsolved mystery. I also am seeing it begin after the New York Times article. Also the scarcity of obtaining SN may be a factor if people are getting sodium nitrate labeled as sodium nitrite.

Seems strange that things have changed from what was the norm back then. I've always wondered if the companies that are aware of people use to ctb sometimes purposefully send out Nitrate even if there's no way to know if the individual who has bought SN will use it for ctb although that's just pure speculation or that some people still confuse Nitrate for Nitrite because they don't double check the legitimacy of their source.

The bottom line is pure sodium nitrite is a powerful fast acting poison that knocks people unconscious if taken in the amounts suggested, usually in under 15 minutes

That is definitely true. After what we've seen on accounts of people who've taken SN, a lot of their experiences are much in the same with vision going blurry from hypotension and feeling weak just 12-15 mins or so after taking sn. Some never come back after that while others end up failing because they were found, called help themselves, etc...

 

[Meditation guide]

We can document and experiment for the next ten years but the fact remains each person's body handles SN in their own way. It varies.

One man went to the hospital after ingesting over 100g. and was still surviving.

The reason as I've stated is that some people have an innate ability to produce enzymes that counteract SN. So speed of absorption from taking a large amount is vital to avoid the reaction of counteracting it.

I've also noticed in the past that anyone who managed to drink a second glass did pass away.

 

[pochii]

I personally would like this to be my way out and I ordered SN but it came in little balls. Would that still dissolve in say, diet coke or something? or would i need to do something to it (or buy something new)

 

[Goku Black]

I personally would like this to be my way out and I ordered SN but it came in little balls. Would that still dissolve in say, diet coke or something? or would i need to do something to it (or buy something new)

Little balls?

 

[pochii]

Little balls?

Ya, not sure why.

Little balls?

To be clear they are little balls in a bottle. I just though it was going to be a powder.

 

[Goku Black]

Ya, not sure why.

To be clear they are little balls in a bottle. I just though it was going to be a powder.

That's a bit odd, I've never heard of sn packed into little balls inside a bottle.

 

[Klimpop]

I never saw anyone survive taking SN without going to the hospital.

Would you agree then that the key to success (provided that the SN is legit and pure)is to drink the full glass full dose, and even if you vomit quickly, somehow don't go unconscious or wake up a few hours later, just don't go to the hospital because eventully you will pass?

 

[Goku Black]

Would you agree then that the key to success is to drink the full glass full dose, and even if you vomit quickly, somehow don't go unconscious or wake up a few hours later, just don't go to the hospital because eventully you will pass?

The biggest key to success is not to be found, outside of following the regimen to a T, that is crucial as a step. No, if you wake up hrs later then you have to abort the attempt and go to the hospital because by then, it means there's very little sn left in your system to pass. It's important to have 2 and 3rd doses ready in case of this so that even if you do vomit, there's more to compensate for that.

 

[pochii]

me too, i guess ill test if they dissolve or not.

That's a bit odd, I've never heard of sn packed into little balls inside a bottle.

 

[Goku Black]

me too, i guess ill test if they dissolve or not.

How much sn is it anyway?

 

[notahappygirl]

Following

 

[Klimpop]

The biggest key to success is not to be found, outside of following the regimen to a T, that is crucial as a step. No, if you wake up hrs later then you have to abort the attempt and go to the hospital because by then, it means there's very little sn left in your system to pass. It's important to have 2 and 3rd doses ready in case of this so that even if you do vomit, there's more to compensate for that.

What if i vomit quickly or almost immediately upon drinking the SN, but I am not able or willing to drink a second glass. What do you do? Wait a few minutes until you become weaker and will pass away eventually (there is a thread somewhere "proof that vomiting is not a cause of failure") or do you abort and call to get to the hospital asap? In my case, I just don't want to have to resort to calling emergencies, I'd rather die then having to do this as I can't bear going to hospitals anymore.

 

[Goku Black]

What if i vomit quickly or almost immediately upon drinking the SN, but I am not able or willing to drink a second glass.

If this happens then it means you've absorbed next to nothing of an amount significant to ctb with. Almost immediately would definitely call upon the need to take a 2nd glass otherwise you abort the attempt and get medical intervention, this is the only way it can be done

Wait a few minutes until you become weaker and will pass away eventually (there is a thread somewhere "proof that vomiting is not a cause of failure")

That thread was done in mind with those who followed the regimen as closely as possible and the causes of failure across different experiences not limited to vomiting, not in the event of immediate vomiting. There was discussion that vomiting does cause failure since without the AEs, you're more likely to fail as a result which in the essence of how the regimen, made sense.

I just don't want to have to resort to calling emergencies, I'd rather die then having to do this as I can't bear going to hospitals anymore.

In this case, the choice is to simply follow the regimen as closely as possible, giving you the best chance to ctb without the need of medical intervention.