Discussion (SN) We need to seriously question the 25g recommendation

[Klimpop]

If this happens then it means you've absorbed next to nothing of an amount significant to ctb with. Almost immediately would definitely call upon the need to take a 2nd glass otherwise you abort the attempt and get medical intervention, this is the only way it can be done

What if I vomit 2-3 minutes after ingestion?

That thread was done in mind with those who followed the regimen as closely as possible and the causes of failure across different experiences not limited to vomiting, not in the event of immediate vomiting. There was discussion that vomiting does cause failure since without the AEs, you're more likely to fail as a result which in the essence of how the regimen, made sense.

I think we need to take into account also how much is vomitted. A little vomit would mean at least 30% to 40% SN is still left in the stomach from what I read somewhere, and that would be enough in most cases to be fatal.

In this case, the choice is to simply follow the regimen as closely as possible, giving you the best chance to ctb without the need of medical intervention.

In the event of failure due to vomitting and inability to drink a second glass, what do you think about ingesting a few grams of SN in pre prepared rizla paper bombs?

 

[Goku Black]

What if I vomit 2-3 minutes after ingestion?

That could really come down how much you vomit and how consistent otherwise I can't say for sure since your reaction may be different after all.

I think we need to take into account also how much is vomitted. A little vomit would mean at least 30% to 40% SN is still left in the stomach from what I read somewhere.

Yes we do. The problem is how much does one know they vomited, a little vomit would be something small. I'd say you have a greater chance of ctb after you've not vomited for about 10 mins and after vomiting will depend on how much it is.

In the event of failure and inability to drink a second glass, what do you think about ingesting a few grams of SN in pre prepared rizla paper bombs?

That depends how well prepared you are to deal with that kind of improvise, such as if you've have the ability to be able to swallow something even after vomiting.

 

[FallingGrace]

I feel like we're having this discussion under a set of assumptions that we simply can't assume are all true:
1. All SN obtained by all attempting members is in fact SN, and of sufficient purity
2. Appropriate fasting and antiemetic protocols were followed
3. The SN was stored in the absence of humidity
4. A minimum lethal dose of SN was consumed and remained consumed
5. The attempting persons were not discovered

SN is not a perfect method. It unsettles me as to why it is generally touted as such. Some people think the mixture tastes disgusting, whereas others who drink electrolyte drinks don't mind the taste. Similarly, hanging is a method I would prefer due to previous BDSM proclivities. Many others find the sensation too unpleasant. I don't mind.

Suicide is a deeply personal and highly preferential experience. We can't force the SN method into a "one size fits all". It's just not going to work for some people. I don't think there's any such thing as "overkill" when it comes to the consumption of pills or poisons. If you have it to spare, take it. If your body is going to eject it, it would in any large quantity. There's no tricking your body by achieving a "Goldilocks" amount. Have you ever seen videos of people downing entire bottles of spirits? Some of those people throw it all up and generally recover whereas others don't, and die of alcohol poisoning. Human bodies are diverse and react to the same poison in different ways and this simply isn't something we could effectively apply the scientific method to, especially with such a small sample size.

 

[Goku Black]

SN is not a perfect method. It unsettles me as to why it is generally touted as such. Some people think the mixture tastes disgusting, whereas others who drink electrolyte drinks don't mind the taste. Similarly, hanging is a method I would prefer due to previous BDSM proclivities. Many others find the sensation too unpleasant. I don't mind.

Who says that it is generally touted as such?, whichever method appeals to someone may come down to personal preference and so what someone may consider their preferred method may be something that others totally avoid for several reasons. You prefer hanging because of your BDSM experience, others prefer SN because they have done enough research to be aware of the risks involved and the added reason being they have access to the meds they need, you also have to remember with the world that we live in, we aren't spoiled for choice due to circumstances that may limit us from obtaining the better methods so for many people, sn is all they can get and for other reasons, some will not choose hanging even if they don't have many choices left.

We can't force the SN method into a "one size fits all". It's just not going to work for some people. I don't think there's any such thing as "overkill" when it comes to the consumption of pills or poisons. If you have it to spare, take it. If your body is going to eject it, it would in any large quantity. There's no tricking your body by achieving a "Goldilocks" amount

No we can't and this is why each individual has to engage and learn to come to the conclusion if this is the method for them or not. It isn't going to work for some people due to factors such as pre-existing health issues that may be disrupt the process as a whole. The problem is, why don't others vomit at all if the body can't be tricked by some goldilocks amount, I'm not saying it can be but there's clearly some difference in why some do and some do not. That recommended amount of 25g is more than likely to be the amount needed to ctb and that's the amount that one should consider when we look at past successes with this method.

 

[FallingGrace]

Who says that it is generally touted as such?, whichever method appeals to someone may come down to personal preference and so what someone may consider their preferred method may be something that others totally avoid for several reasons. You prefer hanging because of your BDSM experience, others prefer SN because they have done enough research to be aware of the risks involved and the added reason being they have access to the meds they need, you also have to remember with the world that we live in, we aren't spoiled for choice due to circumstances that may limit us from obtaining the better methods so for many people, sn is all they can get and for other reasons, some will not choose hanging even if they don't have many choices left.

The general markers of a good method are availability, painlessness and efficiency. I have observed it to fail in all three areas. However, the frequency at which it is recommended implies reliability and high success rates. People have also said it is painless, but I have observed gastrointestinal distress and vomiting in many. I don't believe that suicide is a difficult thing to achieve if you truly wish to die. I could step out in front of a train in the next ten minutes if I wished to do so as I live near train tracks. I could tie a noose to my staircase. I could snort my entire stash of cocaine in one go. I could take all of my sleeping tablets and benzos. I could stop eating and wither and die. I could go on the DW and order pretty much anything. I could take my father's shotgun and blow my brains out. I could steal my mother's fentanyl patches and drift off into nothingness. I could walk to my nearest motorway and step out in front of a truck. I could take pills and place a bag over my head. I could buy a helium or nitrogen tank. Hell, I can't take money with me, I could travel anywhere to any beautiful tall building, bridge or cliff and throw myself off. There are SO many ways to die. Dying is easy. Actually finding the will to die is what people find hard.

 

[Goku Black]

People have also said it is painless, but I have observed gastrointestinal distress and vomiting in many. I don't believe that suicide is a difficult thing to achieve if you truly wish to die.

This is the point I made earlier about underlying issues that may perhaps disrupt the process as a whole. Some users have noted such symptoms while others haven't, this demonstrates again that certain factors may deter this method from working, some of which are individual, nothing to do with the method itself. This would be something only the individual whose had a history of gastrointestinal issues like Ulcers has to worry about.

Actually finding the will to die is what people find hard.

Ultimately, this comes down to how bad the individual wants to go. I can't speak for anyone else from a personal standpoint but most people are still here because of several reasons such as Si, how much it would upset whomever they love and care about. So many ties that keep people here even if they have the desire to ctb. It's also easier to gather all the meds needed and the sn itself more than finding the will to take it. I think you're forgetting that people naturally fear failure, something of this magnitude is too great of a burden sometimes for others to think about what failure could mean after an attempt, even with all methods you've listed, some good while others not so much, there's still the significance of ending up disabled with your life worse off than it already. Some of those methods do not make dying easier.

However, the frequency at which it is recommended implies reliability and high success rates.

it does have a high success for what it does unless you consider a high success rate to be 90% and above? That much is clear in some of the information I've read. I mean, as your point is that there are so many ways to die, with this method being one of those ways, if it wasn't so effective then why would anyone even care about it( governments, news outlets, chemical companies and suppliers). We all know detergents can kill but with low efficacy and thats why almost nobody goes near them, SN isn't perfect but it is a method with a good success rate even if that's what people wouldn't expect. Also, i don't see how it's recommended either, I'd never encourage anyone to purposefully seek out this method first before looking at other options including recovery. Also, can you really expect the dead to come back and report on the success rate of this method in comparison to the others in order to determine a success rate whilst also ignoring that death from it is infrequently reported since it's still such a rare method.

 

[FallingGrace]

I'm not overly interested in a back and forth discussion on what is the best recipe for pickling the troubled youth of today. I mentioned those methods because you seemed to imply SN was the only option for many. It is not. I could go out into my garden right now and pick several plants that could kill me. Same as I have no way of the dead coming back to report their success, I'm unsure of how you have any way of knowing about their pre-existing gastrointestinal conditions. Seems rather convenient when it confirms your biases.

The fear of failure is exactly why I do not advocate for this method. I find it more reassuring to determine a method you know you will succeed at, thus eliminating failure as a factor entirely. The act of suicide is preceded by getting all of your affairs in order. It's a bit of a downer when you've given all of your shit away and you wake up the next day surrounded by vomit in an empty apartment with the electricity cut off and the phone ringing because your timed emails were sent while you were passed out.

Finally, the media cares because not enough is done on this website to keep minors from accessing the information on it. There are also misogynistic incels, self-confessed pedophiles and people who evidently get off on watching others suffer and kill themselves. With all that being said, I still consider this forum an important resource for those who use it honestly and maturely, with sound minds.

 

[Goku Black]

I mentioned those methods because you seemed to imply SN was the only option for many. It is not. I could go out into my garden right now and pick several plants that could kill me. Same as I have no way of the dead coming back to report their success, I'm unsure of how you have any way of knowing about their pre-existing gastrointestinal conditions. Seems rather convenient when it confirms your biases.

I did not imply it, we are all limited in our circumstances to choose what methods we have at our disposal and those you listed do not make it any easier to get even if there are multiple ways to end yourself. Unsure? There are users who've said that they have gastrointestinal issues like ulcers when they've shared their failed sn experiences hence why some had symptoms that others did not. That is how I know, I didn't imply that I had some foreknowledge of it which would affect their ctb attempt.

The fear of failure is exactly why I do not advocate for this method. I find it more reassuring to determine a method you know you will succeed at, thus eliminating failure as a factor entirely. The act of suicide is preceded by getting all of your affairs in order. It's a bit of a downer when you've given all of your shit away and you wake up the next day surrounded by vomit in an empty apartment with the electricity cut off and the phone ringing because your timed emails were sent while you were passed out.

Nobody knows if they'll succeed at any given method regardless of its efficacy. SN, shotgun, N, Inert gas, hanging, SWB, jumping, exit bag, all of these have had failures even if the individual was well informed of the method and how to use it, even those with guns have not pulled the trigger despite the fact that it is a method they know they'll succeed at. You cannot eliminate that fear by simply not advocating for this method, if so then what alternatives do you propose in turn that anyone can access without much restriction, that they are comfortable with and is much more effective and what if people have already determined that is the method that they'll succeed at, others have already done that in the past.

You're making it sound way too dramatic by making the example that you just did by waking up in vomit, in an apartment without lights on after having given all your stuff away. I'll admit, the vomiting part is a reason to not use this method especially if you cannot get the Antiemetics on hand to help but again, that hasn't stopped people from using it since they are determined enough to use it because it's the best they have and the alternatives aren't that much better. That is a decision they made regardless of reassurance.

Finally, the media cares because not enough is done on this website to keep minors from accessing the information on it

I couldn't agree with you more there.

With all that being said, I still consider this forum an important resource for those who use it honestly and maturely, with sound minds

It is also a place of community that others can't find elsewhere.
Also, how can I imply that SN this the only method for many when I said this:

No we can't and this is why each individual has to engage and learn to come to the conclusion if this is the method for them or not.

 

[Meditation guide]

I'm not overly interested in a back and forth discussion on what is the best recipe for pickling the troubled youth of today. I mentioned those methods because you seemed to imply SN was the only option for many. It is not. I could go out into my garden right now and pick several plants that could kill me. Same as I have no way of the dead coming back to report their success, I'm unsure of how you have any way of knowing about their pre-existing gastrointestinal conditions. Seems rather convenient when it confirms your biases.

The fear of failure is exactly why I do not advocate for this method. I find it more reassuring to determine a method you know you will succeed at, thus eliminating failure as a factor entirely. The act of suicide is preceded by getting all of your affairs in order. It's a bit of a downer when you've given all of your shit away and you wake up the next day surrounded by vomit in an empty apartment with the electricity cut off and the phone ringing because your timed emails were sent while you were passed out.

Finally, the media cares because not enough is done on this website to keep minors from accessing the information on it. There are also misogynistic incels, self-confessed pedophiles and people who evidently get off on watching others suffer and kill themselves. With all that being said, I still consider this forum an important resource for those who use it honestly and maturely, with sound minds.

The main reason for failure is having time to change you mind and call for help, or being found while still alive and taken to the hospital. Some methods like guns or jumping will eliminate this time to change your mind. Other methods like poison or overdose attempts can leave time to be found or call for help.

With pure SN you pass out in about 12 minutes but stay alive for approximately another 30 minutes. Before death you can be found, rushed to a hospital and given the antidote. Other poisons and OD's are slower acting, leaving more time to be rescued.
Usually the only ones who don't vomit have taken a load of meto but in general people can expect to vomit SN but it's so powerful it doesn't stop it. It may delay it for five minutes.

 

[Meditation guide]

me too, i guess ill test if they dissolve or not.

Can you post a picture of the little balls? Do you mean clumps of it like rocks?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

The main reason for failure is having time to change you mind and call for help, or being found while still alive and taken to the hospital. Some methods like guns or jumping will eliminate this time to change your mind. Other methods like poison or overdose attempts can leave time to be found or call for help.

With pure SN you pass out in about 12 minutes but stay alive for approximately another 30 minutes. Before death you can be found, rushed to a hospital and given the antidote. Other poisons and OD's are slower acting, leaving more time to be rescued.
Usually the only ones who don't vomit have taken a load of meto but in general people can expect to vomit SN but it's so powerful it doesn't stop it. It may delay it for five minutes.

@Goku Black @Meditation guide @everyone
I don't know if you saw the study vizzy posted in the sn bible thread.

I made an analysis of the study which shows that everyone in that study that took sn and didn't go to the hosptital died. this also contradicts imo the recent 1-2 years many failed sn threads. i also didn't see many sn failed threads from 2019-2020-2021. I also think that the many recent failed sn threads were not pure enough sn. i think that is the most important factor to have pure enough sn. I think if take 25 grams of pure sn it's very close to 99% imo . i don't know why no one thought of testing SN like they did nembutal with the lab in spain EC.


it's post #24 tried to link it here:

SN Bible Sodium Nitrite Method (Comprehensive Guide SN Method)

Sodium Nitrite (SN) Method Introduction This document is a compilation of different sn information, members inputs, important posts related to sn, recorded suicide cases related to sn, different research on sn and so on. This document also give a full understanding of SN, what it is, how it...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Sodium Nitrite Intoxication and Death: Summarizing Evidence to Facilitate Diagnosis

Background: Over the years, forensic pathology has registered the spread of new methods of suicide, such as the ingestion of sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite causes increased methemoglobin, resulting in systemic hypoxia, metabolic acidosis, and cyanosis. Since sodium nitrite is a preservative, the...

www.mdpi.com

 

[Gonnerr]

I didn't read all the comments, maybe somebody said it but the source is important too , it was reported that some people survived taking 20.or 25g , maybe the purity was at 5 or 6%.

If you got IC's SN , you will pass out quickly with 20 or 25g. They are more than 100 deaths suspected around the world with his product.

 

[Goku Black]

also think that the many recent failed sn threads were not pure enough sn. i think that is the most important factor to have pure enough sn. I think if take 25 grams of pure sn it's very close to 99% imo . i don't know why no one thought of testing SN like they did nembutal with the lab in spain EC.

I think that's a fair point, having pure sn is pretty important and perhaps the recent sn failed cases did not have pure sn after all. Cases that come to mind like @ghostbird and Retarded username more than likely had SN, these outside of the usual reasons for failure like being discovered in time or an impulsive attempt.

i also didn't see many sn failed threads from 2019-2020-2021

If there's been a noticeable difference from those years compared to now in terms of the frequency of failed sn threads, could that be solely down to people buying sn that isn't pure anymore or even mistakenly buying Nitrate instead of Nitrite.

If you got IC's SN , you will pass out quickly with 20 or 25g.

Well we know that since IC Sn isn't a source anymore but does this call into question the purity of sn from chemical manufacturers when their sn has to be up to a certain standard in order to be applicable for analytical lab work and research and thus, SN especially of the higher grades has to have as few impurities as possible.

it was reported that some people survived taking 20.or 25g , maybe the purity was at 5 or 6%.

Wasn't one source named TIG found to be not as pure as stated or was that just one instance of a user who tested it?

 

[Meditation guide]

@Goku Black @Meditation guide @everyone
I don't know if you saw the study vizzy posted in the sn bible thread.

I made an analysis of the study which shows that everyone in that study that took sn and didn't go to the hosptital died. this also contradicts imo the recent 1-2 years many failed sn threads. i also didn't see many sn failed threads from 2019-2020-2021. I also think that the many recent failed sn threads were not pure enough sn. i think that is the most important factor to have pure enough sn. I think if take 25 grams of pure sn it's very close to 99% imo . i don't know why no one thought of testing SN like they did nembutal with the lab in spain EC.


it's post #24 tried to link it here:

SN Bible Sodium Nitrite Method (Comprehensive Guide SN Method)

Sodium Nitrite (SN) Method Introduction This document is a compilation of different sn information, members inputs, important posts related to sn, recorded suicide cases related to sn, different research on sn and so on. This document also give a full understanding of SN, what it is, how it...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Sodium Nitrite Intoxication and Death: Summarizing Evidence to Facilitate Diagnosis

Background: Over the years, forensic pathology has registered the spread of new methods of suicide, such as the ingestion of sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite causes increased methemoglobin, resulting in systemic hypoxia, metabolic acidosis, and cyanosis. Since sodium nitrite is a preservative, the...

www.mdpi.com

Thank you for confirming my thoughts and suspicions. Purity is important. It was hard to miss the fact that everyone who got LW SN all passed away and did it quickly.

 

[DreamEnd]

Thank you for confirming my thoughts and suspicions. Purity is important. It was hard to miss the fact that everyone who got LW SN all passed away and did it quickly.

Out of the total number of cases (95) death occurred in 55 of the subjects (41.67%)
That's from the study linked
I don't know what to think about that. That doesn't sound like a reliable number lol

 

[Meditation guide]

Out of the total number of cases (95) death occurred in 55 of the subjects (41.67%)
That's from the study linked
I don't know what to think about that. That doesn't sound like a reliable number lol

Those 95 cases were ones in the hospital right?

 

[DreamEnd]

Those 95 cases were ones in the hospital right?

Sorry not 95 it's 132

The present systematic review included a total of 35 papers, divided into 15 case reports and 20 case series (Table 1); 11 studies were carried out in America, as well as 11 in Asia, nine in Europe, three in Australia, and one in Africa. Overall, a total of 132 subjects were included (75 males, 34 females, and 23 of undefined gender); ages were available for 97 cases and ranged from 2 to 76 years, with an average of 35.6 years (Figure 2). In 53 of the 132 cases, the ingestion of sodium nitrite occurred for suicidal purposes, while in the remaining 79 cases, it occurred accidentally. A total of 21 of the 53 suicides were hospitalized, but 12 of these died anyway. However, 73 of the 79 individuals with accidental ingestions accessed the emergency room, and of these, only six died during hospitalization.

It makes it seem like all 53 died except for those hospitalized or am I reading it wrong ?

 

[Meditation guide]

Sorry not 95 it's 132

The present systematic review included a total of 35 papers, divided into 15 case reports and 20 case series (Table 1); 11 studies were carried out in America, as well as 11 in Asia, nine in Europe, three in Australia, and one in Africa. Overall, a total of 132 subjects were included (75 males, 34 females, and 23 of undefined gender); ages were available for 97 cases and ranged from 2 to 76 years, with an average of 35.6 years (Figure 2). In 53 of the 132 cases, the ingestion of sodium nitrite occurred for suicidal purposes, while in the remaining 79 cases, it occurred accidentally. A total of 21 of the 53 suicides were hospitalized, but 12 of these died anyway. However, 73 of the 79 individuals with accidental ingestions accessed the emergency room, and of these, only six died during hospitalization.

It makes it seem like all 53 died except for those hospitalized or am I reading it wrong ?

I confused reading that. I will study it further later.

There were 53 suicides.
21 of those were hospitalized.
They could save all of them who were hospitalized but 12.

I assume all that were NOT hospitalized died but it doesn't say that, although it did call them suicides, not suicide attempts.

And it was less likely they could save the ones who attempted suicide than the accidental ones.

 

[pochii]

Can you post a picture of the little balls? Do you mean clumps of it like rocks?

I think you are right. When looking closer they all are a little different in size.

How much sn is it anyway?

30g

 

[Meditation guide]

I think you are right. When looking closer they all are a little different in size.

30g

That's unheard of. It's supposed to be a fine sand like texture or possibly hard clumps. Maybe in other countries it's like that but it's a food additive, you would be biting into those balls in the food unless they expect people to grind those up. What country did it come from?

 

[Goku Black]

That's definitely something I've never seen sn look like before. It's usually granular or a powder.

 

[DreamEnd]

Yeah I never seen it like that either

 

[gbi2]

That's unheard of. It's supposed to be a fine sand like texture or possibly hard clumps. Maybe in other countries it's like that but it's a food additive, you would be biting into those balls in the food unless they expect people to grind those up. What country did it come from?

That's 'prilled' which means made into spherical balls. It is not any direct indication of it being genuine or not.

 

[pochii]

That's 'prilled' which means made into spherical balls. It is not any direct indication of it being genuine or not.

View attachment 124704Ohhhhh ya that's exactly it!

That's unheard of. It's supposed to be a fine sand like texture or possibly hard clumps. Maybe in other countries it's like that but it's a food additive, you would be biting into those balls in the food unless they expect people to grind those up. What country did it come from?

I live in California, though I ordered it online. I put one of the clumps/balls in my little dish and poured diet coke over it and it did dissolve in around 3 minutes.

 

[Meditation guide]

I live in California, though I ordered it online. I put one of the clumps/balls in my little dish and poured diet coke over it and it did dissolve in around 3 minutes.

I mean do you know what country it originally came from? I can't believe a western country would sell it that way.

 

[pochii]

I mean do you know what country it originally came from? I can't believe a western country would sell it that way.

It's originally from the US, in Montana. (sorry for the late reply)

 

[sjoper1980]

25g is enough. I know someone about my weight/size - decidedly average - and they got hold of it a few months and were successful. That was a British one though so who knows what it's like in different countries.

That's 'prilled' which means made into spherical balls. It is not any direct indication of it being genuine or not.

View attachment 124704

That's too white for SN. SN is yellow-ish.

 

[Goku Black]

25g is enough. I know someone about my weight/size - decidedly average - and they got hold of it a few months and were successful. That was a British one though so who knows what it's like in different countries.

That's too white for SN. SN is yellow-ish.

I was about to say that what op is not the typical color of SN, it's usually white with an ever so slight yellow tint to it. Also @sjoper1980 did the person you knew ctb with sn have meds to help?

 

[sjoper1980]

I was about to say that what op is not the typical color of SN, it's usually white with an ever so slight yellow tint to it.

Same, mine is yellow tinted

 

[Meditation guide]

It's originally from the US, in Montana. (sorry for the late reply)

I think if you found a real source in the US it's surprising. And it does look too white.