Discussion (SN) We need to seriously question the 25g recommendation

[beforeistoolate]

Don't we deserve to intellectually challenge this 25g of SN number a bit more and gather more data since it's the most popular method and so many people are considering it as their N1 way to go?

After reading what I think is the most valuable post and source of information regarding SN:

Testing SN - How to get to hospital (fast)

I started considering the 25g quantity counterproductive. There are several cases of accidental poisoning and deaths from eating curated meats alone that had "high" levels of SN in it, always around the absolute minimum of 2g we discuss here or lower.

Since they are chemically similar I ingested 25g of salt as an experiment recently, vomiting started after 10 minutes. This might be totally irrelevant, but I think it proved the point for me that ingesting 25g of almost anything that's not food or water is highly likely to induce vomiting. Again, this is not the point I'm trying to make.

The main point here that needs more discussion is why don't we have more people willing to CBT (specially those concerned with failure by vomiting) trying smaller amounts of SN and report the experience just like the previous post in case it doesn't work and slowly work our way up. SN poisoning has 0 risk of permanent damage, correct me if I'm wrong.

I have had several CBT attempts and don't wanna start with max SN levels just to fail and feel like the method is torturous when starting with a lower dosage and up could've actually provided me with a peaceful death. I've read multiple (not very reliable but enough to make me doubt) accounts of people that have failed with the 25g guide because they just couldn't avoid throwing it up. I don't blame them since our bodies are not even able to handle 25g of simple table salt.

Anyways, I'm planning my CBT for the next few months and if I finally decide to go with SN I will post my experience if I survive my attempt starting with the lowest dose of 2grams. I might even start with food also and by using curated meats the alibi for accidental intoxication should work if I couldn't resist the urge to visit the hospital for not being able to handle the pain.

I want to clarify that I have the time and space to try to CBT several times and fail, I understand some people here don't so would rather choose the overkill amount of 25g to be sure. From personal experience when you fail with a particular method, you are very unlikely to try it again. So I believe treating SN as an experiment you can work your way up in grams until you finally find the right fit for, without feeling like you are failing as you keep adding grams. Also, it might help by taking the edge off of being absolutely sure you are trying the ultimate version of the method itself.

These people that die from SN intoxication in food not only died from small amounts, they ingested it with food, making it the process of absorption much slower, therefore I'm highly skeptical the 25g guide can't be improved in the future if we add research and personal experiences by those who are willing to use ourselves as an experiment for the benefit of others (and ourselves in my case since I've been reading and studying SN for more than a year now and the scientific basis for the 25g number is controversial to say the least).

I can't say enough about how incredible PPeH is and how lucky we are to have that source of information but we, as a community, have the access to much more data and options if we abide by the scientific method and we are responsible to write down and describe exactly our experiences with SN. That's why I give immense credit to the post quoted above and it might be the most informative and credible amount on the internet about Sodium Nitrite.

 

[Goku Black]

I'd like to respond to some points op made that I think warrant discussion but I think I'd like to see what anyone else has to say first.

 

[xxAbigailxx]

That would be so selfless of you to share your experiment with us! I of course would rather see you recover and be happy, but if you do this many people on here would be so grateful! Maybe tell us before you take your first dosage, so that we know, should you not respond again, that it worked? But please, before you do this, consider every other option first (like trying to get help and all that...).

 

[worstgirl7716]

Honestly I never thought of that. I think you make a good case here, if so many people are failing 25g and yet it should be so fatal, then it makes sense.

 

[Fulminare]

Commenting just so I can stay updated on this little experiment, but I also fully support the 25g dosage of SN. Or the standard protocol in general. I would not ingest only 2g. Neither do you want to eat right before it (or even eat it with something). Fasting is the key point here. It's a horrible experience without it.

 

[DreamEnd]

I'm sorry but saying sn failure had no permanent side effects is just wrong. I used to believe it too but several people came forward and articles showing that there can be lingering damage done to the body after a failed sn attempt probably influenced by the time it took for help to arrive.

 

[FuneralGrey]

There's a lot of things misstated in your post, so I'd like to jump in with a few comments.

As user mmikkee1 has mentioned above, SN failure is not without permanent consequences. Can you survive with no obvious damage? Yes. But you cannot go into an SN attempt thinking that the are absolutely no risks if you fail.

Next: 25g of salt will kill you if you keep it down. Table salt is mainly sodium chloride. I won't spell it out, but SN is sodium combined with something other than chloride (what the N stands for, although I don't want to cause confusion with what this site refers to as N). If you ingest enough table salt, the sodium will kill you. But for SN, it's not the sodium that kills you but the other component.

25g is overkill, yes. But that's the point. You held down the salt for 10 minutes. Taking 25g means that even if you vomit after 5, 10, 15 minutes, you will still have absorbed some. If 2g is the lethal dose, you still have hope of a successful attempt. Taking 25g is also more likely to lead to a quicker experience; if you take 5g, for example, you might ctb, but it will take longer. Most people here are looking for quick and painless.

Taking a smaller dose does not guarantee a lesser reaction either. For my personal method of choice, 30 mL can be fatal. In my experiments, I was able to keep down ~250 mL (ended up in a coma though) but threw up after taking 20 mL. Your body recognizes poison and can react just as violently no matter what the amount is.

Final thought: you don't need to take 25g. Taking 25g doesn't guarantee you'll ctb. By all means, we can experiment with other doses. But we need to be real about the risks.

(Also regarding your main point, I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find people willing to be guinea pigs. Even then, the narrative could be unreliable. The post you link to was written by someone well-versed in medicine who could understand and describe the events that occurred. Most people won't be able to do this or to document it to that extent.)

 

[beforeistoolate]

I'm sorry but saying sn failure had no permanent side effects is just wrong. I used to believe it too but several people came forward and articles showing that there can be lingering damage done to the body after a failed sn attempt probably influenced by the time it took for help to arrive.

Please share those articles because that's not consensus and seems irresponsible to state that as a matter of fact

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's difficult for me to reply properly because I don't have the factual evidence to back stuff up. It's more just vague recollections of reading failed SN attempts...

Quite often when someone fails the 25g attempt, it seems like something in the protocol was missed or ignored. They didn't fast, they didn't take antiemetics, they drank alcohol or milk or fruit juice. They sipped at the mixture. They got up and tried to walk about- maybe not resulting in failure but other accidents. They called for an ambulance or were found and stopped. They didn't actually measure it- so may not have consumed 25g or they mixed it with too much water. They weren't sent Sodium Nitrite to begin with. I'm not saying that all 25g failed atrempts have a reason they failed but- a lot do.

Conversely- I've seen a lot of threads where people have taken just a little bit as some sort of test and failed. It may well have been because they did it impulsively and didn't do all the preparation but it easily could be that they didn't take enough SN too.

Ultimately- it's up to you as to what you want to do. You may well be right. I'm no scientist. I presume there must be a reason they suggest 25g. Or- something around that figure- according to a person's weight. Presumably, it was a scientist/chemist who knew about the potential of this method to begin with. Personally, I feel like I've seen more (presumed) successful attempts from people following the protocol than not- so personally, I wouldn't risk messing with it. That said- I admire your courage and community spirit.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

SN degrades to nitrate. Ive seen shelf life from manufacturers ranging from 2 years to 5 years. however that I guess is from date of manufacture. So I would like to know the date or get a certificate of analysis.

You can't be sure what % unless rigorously tested .EC lab in spain would be the best if they test SN ( i don't see why they wouldn't) . then you have to test with sn testing strips otherwise taking huge risks.also if can get a certificite of analysis from a reputable company and date of manufacture. but testing still must be done imo

What if u take 10 and it's only 5g nitrite and the rest corrupted stuff like nitrate? .

Yeah if you r sure it's pure and fresh then 10g might work.

what if you puke 50% of it and then that 10g even if pure fresh then is 5g. imo 5 g might not work even for average weight . however 25g would be 12g which imo is usually fatal.

I'm going 25 to 30g per cup, drink first cup. then drink 2nd cup if vomit
. what could happen to me I might die omg am I actually mortal? . i'm going to die anyway so nothing matters

 

[hellispink]

I wouldnt risk it. Most of us have limited chances probably just one chance with sn, i prefer to take the 25g. And make another cup in case i throw up. Risking taking less and then not dying and dealing with consequences is too much to bear. If one cup doesnt do it i will keep drinking until i murder myself, literally.

 

[beforeistoolate]

There's a lot of things misstated in your post, so I'd like to jump in with a few comments.

As user mmikkee1 has mentioned above, SN failure is not without permanent consequences. Can you survive with no obvious damage? Yes. But you cannot go into an SN attempt thinking that the are absolutely no risks if you fail.

Next: 25g of salt will kill you if you keep it down. Table salt is mainly sodium chloride. I won't spell it out, but SN is sodium combined with something other than chloride (what the N stands for, although I don't want to cause confusion with what this site refers to as N). If you ingest enough table salt, the sodium will kill you. But for SN, it's not the sodium that kills you but the other component.

25g is overkill, yes. But that's the point. You held down the salt for 10 minutes. Taking 25g means that even if you vomit after 5, 10, 15 minutes, you will still have absorbed some. If 2g is the lethal dose, you still have hope of a successful attempt. Taking 25g is also more likely to lead to a quicker experience; if you take 5g, for example, you might ctb, but it will take longer. Most people here are looking for quick and painless.

Taking a smaller dose does not guarantee a lesser reaction either. For my personal method of choice, 30 mL can be fatal. In my experiments, I was able to keep down ~250 mL (ended up in a coma though) but threw up after taking 20 mL. Your body recognizes poison and can react just as violently no matter what the amount is.

Final thought: you don't need to take 25g. Taking 25g doesn't guarantee you'll ctb. By all means, we can experiment with other doses. But we need to be real about the risks.

(Also regarding your main point, I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find people willing to be guinea pigs. Even then, the narrative could be unreliable. The post you link to was written by someone well-versed in medicine who could understand and describe the events that occurred. Most people won't be able to do this or to document it to that extent.)

Thank you for your response

The most important point to discuss is the overkill logic you mention which I've came across before: Taking a high dose so even if you expel most of it, minimum dosage will still be able to kill you. This I believe, is the most controversial logic behind the 25g dose. There's no scientific basis to justify 25g over 10g in being the ideal amount to guarantee that minimum absorption. And here lies my point, maybe lower doses have much better chances to bypass nausea/vomiting defense mechanisms and provide a better success rate.

We, as a community, need to understand, that 25g number was suggested in good faith by a professional, but he/she wasn't able to test it through the scientific method. There were never three groups, one taking a low 3g dose, one a 10g middle ground dose, and another the 25g overkill. So we are working only based on assumptions. I'm just trying to suggest there should be a online document where this community can start gathering different accounts and numbers to bring some science to the SN method.

Also, the same logic applies to quick and painless you and most people associate with higher doses. Speed might be the only point in favor for higher doses but if vomiting with higher doses is more common then it would be the opposite in regards to pain, I think this is everyones priority. There's just no information with lower doses, only assumptions, the only account we have in fact says is absolutely painless. And the accounts on medical papers from survivors of SN food intoxication only mention palpitations and other non painful symptoms.

Same with your point about "taking a smaller dose doesn't guarantee a lesser reaction", again, I posted the most detailed description we have of anyone trying lower dosages of SN and they prove exactly the opposite of that. Same if you would take 2g of table salt instead of 25g. Is not about a guarantee, is about likelihood, and by promoting the 25g number we are setting a number of people to fail in my opinion.

To conclude, I'm trying to bring attention specifically to what's the ideal dose to bypass the stomach and never trigger those aggressive defense mechanisms our body activates in order to expel a foreign substance. And then make this method as reliable as possible by making sure the minimum amount for cbting can enter the intestines. And for those who wanna risk vomiting or failing altogether in favor of a quicker outcome a higher dose can be suggested.

Lastly, no one has provided links or actual verifiable accounts of irreversible damage after SN intoxication, so please provide those if you have them otherwise we are just spreading rumors which again, don't favor neither the lower or higher dosage. Furthermore I think your comment on making guinea pigs of people is very inconsiderate, I just hope for this method to be more reliable by asking those who are willing to share their experiences to do it with as much detail as possible, specially if they are willing to test different doses because most people will still follow the 25g regimen just because it's written on PPeh.

 

[Goku Black]

I'm going 25 to 30
I might even go 50 as i heard some China websites reccommend e/acc . what could happen to me I might die omg am I actually mortal? . i'm going to die anyway so nothing matters

Not to sidetrack the thread but where did you get the info that Chinese websites recommend 50g of SN?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Not to sidetrack the thread but where did you get thr info that Chinese websites recommend 50g of SN?

I just saw a post here on this website saying that . I haven't seen one myself. i'm not in china. . I don't know if it's true . i was probably going to delete the post or i'll edit it.

 

[Goku Black]

To conclude, I'm trying to bring attention specifically to what's the ideal dose to bypass the stomach and never trigger those aggressive defense mechanisms our body activates in order to expel a foreign substance. And then make this method as reliable as possible by making sure the minimum amount for cbting can enter the intestines. And for those who wanna risk vomiting or failing altogether in favor of a quicker outcome a higher dose can be suggested.

So what you're saying is to find the ideal amount that's still enough to ctb but will not trigger any aggressive mechanisms to try to expel as much of the sn solution as possible. The thing is, even with a lower amount, there's still a chance of vomiting and on top of that, we don't know how much has been expelled and how much is still left to possibly be enough to ctb with.

I just saw a post here on this website saying that . I haven't seen one myself. i'm not in china. . I don't know if it's true . i was probably going to delete the post or i'll edit it.

You aren't the 1st to mention it so I thought you possibly know where this information was obtained.

 

[beforeistoolate]

I wouldnt risk it. Most of us have limited chances probably just one chance with sn, i prefer to take the 25g. And make another cup in case i throw up. Risking taking less and then not dying and dealing with consequences is too much to bear. If one cup doesnt do it i will keep drinking until i murder myself, literally.

Thank you I understand this point of view and I'm trying to be sensitive to it. I just think from an SN attempt I've read the other day and from personal experience after putting your body under extreme duress, your abilities to perform simple actions such as drinking a glass of something become compromised so I can't justify the multiple glasses regimen either.

This overkill method doesn't make any sense to me that's why I decided to write this post because I want to bring more science and more questions to make this method more reliable, that is all. And I won't even get to benefit from this at all, since I shouldn't be alive past February. I just think is the right thing to do as a community, we should all give our last efforts and energies to this website which has provided us with so much information and support.

So what you're saying is to find the ideal amount that's still enough to ctb but will not trigger any aggressive mechanisms to try to expel as much of the sn solution as possible. The thing is, even with a lower amount, there's still a chance of vomiting and on top of that, we don't know how much has been expelled and how much is still left to possibly be enough to ctb with.

You aren't the 1st to mention it so I thought you possibly know where this information was obtained.

I just wanted to use my experiment with table salt as an example, lower amounts of the substance ingested have definitely lower chances to trigger those mechanisms, our aim should be to ascertain what's that ideal amount, without considering that outrageous logic that even if you vomit, enough will stay down to kill you. That doesn't make any sense to me. Because following that logic, then let's begin with the lower dose to begin with and make this a safer/more reliable method.

 

[Meditation guide]

Don't we deserve to intellectually challenge this 25g of SN number a bit more and gather more data since it's the most popular method and so many people are considering it as their N1 way to go?

After reading what I think is the most valuable post and source of information regarding SN:

Testing SN - How to get to hospital (fast)

I started considering the 25g quantity counterproductive. There are several cases of accidental poisoning and deaths from eating curated meats alone that had "high" levels of SN in it, always around the absolute minimum of 2g we discuss here or lower.

Since they are chemically similar I ingested 25g of salt as an experiment recently, vomiting started after 10 minutes. This might be totally irrelevant, but I think it proved the point for me that ingesting 25g of almost anything that's not food or water is highly likely to induce vomiting. Again, this is not the point I'm trying to make.

The main point here that needs more discussion is why don't we have more people willing to CBT (specially those concerned with failure by vomiting) trying smaller amounts of SN and report the experience just like the previous post in case it doesn't work and slowly work our way up. SN poisoning has 0 risk of permanent damage, correct me if I'm wrong.

I have had several CBT attempts and don't wanna start with max SN levels just to fail and feel like the method is torturous when starting with a lower dosage and up could've actually provided me with a peaceful death. I've read multiple (not very reliable but enough to make me doubt) accounts of people that have failed with the 25g guide because they just couldn't avoid throwing it up. I don't blame them since our bodies are not even able to handle 25g of simple table salt.

Anyways, I'm planning my CBT for the next few months and if I finally decide to go with SN I will post my experience if I survive my attempt starting with the lowest dose of 2grams. I might even start with food also and by using curated meats the alibi for accidental intoxication should work if I couldn't resist the urge to visit the hospital for not being able to handle the pain.

I want to clarify that I have the time and space to try to CBT several times and fail, I understand some people here don't so would rather choose the overkill amount of 25g to be sure. From personal experience when you fail with a particular method, you are very unlikely to try it again. So I believe treating SN as an experiment you can work your way up in grams until you finally find the right fit for, without feeling like you are failing as you keep adding grams. Also, it might help by taking the edge off of being absolutely sure you are trying the ultimate version of the method itself.

These people that die from SN intoxication in food not only died from small amounts, they ingested it with food, making it the process of absorption much slower, therefore I'm highly skeptical the 25g guide can't be improved in the future if we add research and personal experiences by those who are willing to use ourselves as an experiment for the benefit of others (and ourselves in my case since I've been reading and studying SN for more than a year now and the scientific basis for the 25g number is controversial to say the least).

I can't say enough about how incredible PPeH is and how lucky we are to have that source of information but we, as a community, have the access to much more data and options if we abide by the scientific method and we are responsible to write down and describe exactly our experiences with SN. That's why I give immense credit to the post quoted above and it might be the most informative and credible amount on the internet about Sodium Nitrite.

SN needs to be very quickly absorbed before the body can produce the necessary chemical to counteract it. It cannot be done slowly. It cannot be sipped, or with a lesser amount because that gives the body time to counteract it. Slow absorption means failure.

 

[beforeistoolate]

SN degrades to nitrate. Ive seen shelf life from manufacturers ranging from 2 years to 5 years. however that I guess is from date of manufacture. So I would like to know the date or get a certificate of analysis.

You can't be sure what % unless rigorously tested .EC lab in spain would be the best if they test SN ( i don't see why they wouldn't) . then you have to test with sn testing strips otherwise taking huge risks.also if can get a certificite of analysis from a reputable company and date of manufacture. but testing still must be done imo

What if u take 10 and it's only 5g nitrite and the rest corrupted stuff like nitrate? .

Yeah if you r sure it's pure and fresh then 10g might work.

what if you puke 50% of it and then that 10g even if pure fresh then is 5g. imo 5 g might not work even for average weight . however 25g would be 12g which imo is usually fatal.

I'm going 25 to 30g per cup, drink first cup. then drink 2nd cup if vomit
. what could happen to me I might die omg am I actually mortal? . i'm going to die anyway so nothing matters

The point is, data matters. I know we don't care personally about our own lives. I'm just trying to leave the smallest possible legacy by stating exactly what we are going to take before we CBT so people can gather that and use it for future reference to maybe save someone else a bit of pain and make this method, which is a great one, more reliable.

Since I believe this overkill take doesn't make much sense, I had to say something. Also I don't subscribe to that multiple glass theory since once you start violently vomiting there's almost zero chance you can down anything else you might wanna ingest, without mentioning you can be too weak or impaired to even grab a glass in the first place.

SN needs to be very quickly absorbed before the body can produce the necessary chemical to counteract it. I cannot be done slowly. It cannot be sipped, or with a lesser amount because that gives the body time to counteract it. Slow absorption means failure.

That's factually untrue for everyone that has been admitted to the hospital for accidental SN intoxication which are both trace amounts of the substance and eaten together with food. This is what I mean by spreading rumors without actual science behind it, please let's be more responsible.

 

[Goku Black]

This overkill method doesn't make any sense to me that's why I decided to write this post because I want to bring more science and more questions to make this method more reliable, that is all. And I won't even get to benefit from this at all, since I shouldn't be alive past February. I just think is the right thing to do as a community, we should all give our last efforts and energies to this website which has provided us with so much information and support.

Higher doses definitely do have different reactions on the body that could not necessarily cause ctb either, looking at what @Retarded Username went through, having taken a dose of 21g that should've more than enough to ctb, didn't vomit either and took it in less water but did not lose consiousness either. Perhaps the Overkill idea can do more harm than the intended purpose of making ctb more likely the end result. I do appreciate this kind of discussion for a change since most threads around sn only revolve around the same old topics with nothing new to take away.

lower amounts of the substance ingested have definitely lower chances to trigger those mechanisms, our aim should be to ascertain what's that ideal amount, without considering that outrageous logic that even if you vomit, enough will stay down to kill you. That doesn't make any sense to me. Because following that logic, then let's begin with the lower dose to begin with and make this a safer/more reliable method.

The thing is, we've seen the sn ctb amount amended over the years, from 15 to now 25g which is taken with the idea being to make ctb more obtainable plus higher doses of sn seem to be harder to reserve but again, I've seen an article of a 23 year who took sn accidentally, developed OHCA and could've died, although the amount ingested accidentally wasn't specified, it likely wasn't anywhere what the recommended ctb amount is right now. The logic isn't outrageous for me because it means that despite expelling sn, there's still enough to kill as we don't know how much will expelled anyway so it's best to take an initial higher lethal amount albeit at the sacrifice of some level of comfort even though we have to prepare to forsake that since this is ctb we're talking about. We've had @アホペンギン fail despite taking the high dose as well as backup drinks but the issue was the nausea problem he has, now we don't know if a lower dose would've been optimal in this case or any others who've detailed their failed experiences but the point is to take a high enough to give yourself the best chance at ctb because when we take such a risk, I dount anyone of us want to survive to see the aftermath.

 

[beforeistoolate]

SN needs to be very quickly absorbed before the body can produce the necessary chemical to counteract it. I cannot be done slowly. It cannot be sipped, or with a lesser amount because that gives the body time to counteract it. Slow absorption means failure.

This is very disappointing. Someone that has clearly a high score on this site for collaborating a lot tries to shut down my entire argument in two lines of text when clearly they haven't even spend the time researching SN accidental intoxication cases where everything she/he's saying can be proven wrong.

 

[Goku Black]

That's factually untrue for everyone that has been admitted to the hospital for accidental SN intoxication which are both trace amounts of the substance and eaten together with food.

I have to agree here but I think @Meditation guide was talking about in relation to ctb.

 

[Meditation guide]

Since I believe this overkill take doesn't make much sense, I had to say something.

Let me explain why we need the overkill:; YOUR BODY CAN COUNTERACT SN. You need the overkill for fast results before that can happen. A lessor amount may be handled so well by your body that you survive.

 

[DreamEnd]

Please share those articles because that's not consensus and seems irresponsible to state that as a matter of fact

Delayed Post-Hypoxic Leukoencephalopathy Following Nitrite Poisoning: A Case Report and Review of the Literature

Delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy (DPHL) is a demyelinating syndrome that occurs days to weeks after the brain has recovered from a coma. It is caused by the period of hypoxia and is characterized by mental disorders, extrapyramidal system symptoms, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Meditation guide]

This is very disappointing. Someone that has clearly a high score on this site for collaborating a lot tries to shut down my entire argument in two lines of text when clearly they haven't even spend the time researching SN accidental intoxication cases where everything she/he's saying can be proven wrong.

I've been reading constantly about SN every article I can find since I signed up for this site over three years ago.

 

[beforeistoolate]

Higher doses definitely do have different reactions on the body that could not necessarily cause ctb either, looking at what @Retarded Username went through, having taken a dose of 21g that should've more than enough to ctb, didn't vomit either and took it in less water but did not lose consiousness either. Perhaps the Overkill idea can do more harm than the intended purpose of making ctb more likely the end result. I do appreciate this kind of discussion for a change since most threads around sn only revolve around the same old topics with nothing new to take away.


The thing is, we've seen the sn ctb amount amended over the years, from 15 to now 25g which is taken with the idea being to make ctb more obtainable plus higher doses of sn seem to be harder to reserve but again, I've seen an article of a 23 year who took sn accidentally, developed OHCA and could've died, although the amount ingested accidentally wasn't specified, it likely wasn't anywhere what the recommended ctb amount is right now. The logic isn't outrageous for me because it means that despite expelling sn, there's still enough to kill as we don't know how much will expelled anyway so it's best to take an initial higher lethal amount albeit at the sacrifice of some level of comfort even though we have to prepare to forsake that since this is ctb we're talking about. We've had @アホペンギン fail despite taking the high dose as well as backup drinks but the issue was the nausea problem he has, now we don't know if a lower dose would've been optimal in this case or any others who've detailed their failed experiences but the point is to take a high enough to give yourself the best chance at ctb because when we take such a risk, I dount anyone of us want to survive to see the aftermath.

Thank you for respecting the discussion enough to take the time to write this. I think that amendment means very little in the context and reassessment I'm trying to make of this method. Both 15g and 25g sound like quantities that would trigger the defense mechanisms in many cases, they are far off the minimum lethal dose. And yes with 25g you would have a higher success rate the same way you would, maybe, with 40g over 25 to some extent.

I just wanna make the point we are not even close to having enough data to go with either number or 40g, 25g, or 3g. If we have dozens of people trying this method on this site eventually someone could gather some type of relevant scientific basis to justify one number or the other. I understand most people will follow the argument of authority and take whatever PPeH suggests. Personally I think it's a gamble either way until there's more data, and since there's no data of people taking lower doses except the one I quoted and those accidental SN intoxication cases online, I can't agree and keep justifying a number that might be the wrong one and cause people unnecessary pain.

I've been reading constantly about SN every article I can find since I signed up for this site over three years ago.

Have you read any scientific articles of people dying from accidental SN intoxication that contradicts everything you stated?

Please share the links of people taking small doses of SN and failing because I only care about information and making this method more reliable.

 

[Meditation guide]

No YOU are the one who doesn't have enough data, we have plenty on this site.

SS – Fatal Sodium Nitrite (SN / NaNO2) Attempts: Member Methods & Experiences

docs.google.com

SS – Non-Fatal Sodium Nitrite (SN / NaNO2) Attempts: Member Methods & Experiences

docs.google.com

Sodium Nitrite - SN success and failure rates

Hi everyone There are a lot of people still wondering about SN and how often people succeed or fail with it. The information of success rates of SN seem to be all over the forum between so many different threads. So reading the different pages i can conclude that it is highly successful...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Goku Black]

No YOU are the one who doesn't have enough data, we have plenty on this site.

Mg, please I get you are frustrated but I don't want to see another thread locked up.

 

[beforeistoolate]

Since I believe this overkill take doesn't make much sense, I had to say something.

Let me explain why we need the overkill:; YOUR BODY CAN COUNTERACT SN. You need the overkill for fast results before that can happen. A lessor amount may be handled so well by your body that you survive.

It's incredible how little respect you have and how condescending you are trying to be by stating something everyone knows in caps. That's not the point at all of this discussion and it's assumed everyone knows that. You are very intellectually dishonest by grabbing one line of what I wrote without context to try to win an argument I'm not even trying to make.

It's really sad people here with your score not trying to be constructive and not even addressing the point I'm making. It's a demerit to this site and for everyone watching and reading our posts.

 

[Meditation guide]

Mg, please I get you are frustrated but I don't want to see another thread locked up.

Why, this isn't helpful.

OP if you want to take 10 g. or less that's your choice. People have died with less. I'm only posting some links from data collected from past members, as well as the reason for taking a higher amount.

I don't like the idea of experimenting but if the OP wants to no one can stop him.

 

[Goku Black]

Personally I think it's a gamble either way until there's more data, and since there's no data of people taking lower doses except the one I quoted and those accidental SN intoxication cases online, I can't agree and keep justifying a number that might be the wrong one and cause people unnecessary pain.

So what you're saying is until a scientific basis has been established as to whether or not, the higher lethal doses will work then you would rather take a lower dose instead of justifying taking a number that could be the wrong one and will cause unnecessary pain to people.

Both 15g and 25g sound like quantities that would trigger the defense mechanisms in many cases, they are far off the minimum lethal dose. And yes with 25g you would have a higher success rate the same way you would, maybe, with 40g over 25 to some extent.

True, they would and in many cases they have. This is why some people have deviated from taking Antiemetics since you'll vomit anyway after ingesting such a high amount.

I just wanna make the point we are not even close to having enough data to go with either number or 40g, 25g, or 3g.

I have to respectfully disagree here, we know that out of any of these amounts that people will either not ctb since there have been cases of people who've taken just over what is the minimum dose and not ctb, there was quite an issue of this year's back when users would take a small amount of sn to give them an idea of what they are in store for. Now, some reacted in a way where the taste was strong and couldn't fathom taking the full amount of 20g-25g while others were encouraged because the symptoms weren't so bad to deal with, these are individuals responses after all.

When it comes the 25g amount, we know that intentional sn ingestion is taken with the intent to ctb and that means leaving as very little chance as possible to survive which is why it has such a high mortality rate contrary to what people believe about sn being easier to fail which isnt an exclusive issue of SN. Not sure to what extent you've seen medical articles discussing the state of individuals found after calling for medical help but their medical status deteriorates quite sharply even after being placed under intensive care with severe cases developing cardiac arrest, these are more than likely to be higher doses that leave a very small window for medical intervention to save anyone. No one wants to leave anything to chance especially when it comes to OD, this is not a gamble but trying to be precise as possible down to the amount ingested in order to ctb.

Why, this isn't helpful.

OP if you want to take 10 g. or less that's your choice. People have died with less. I'm only posting some links from data collected from past members, as well as the reason for taking a higher amount.

It may be if we just consider what OP is trying to say. They may be onto something that has been a concern for others when it comes to sn. I mean @DT2007 took 10g to try to take nor anywhere the recommended but still not vomit and even though they did, I see what he was trying to do.

Also I don't subscribe to that multiple glass theory since once you start violently vomiting there's almost zero chance you can down anything else you might wanna ingest, without mentioning you can be too weak or impaired to even grab a glass in the first place.

This is true especially if the user vomits almost immediately which has happened either due to the taste itself or some other cause, so when this happens, it becomes rather uncomfortable for anyone to ingest more no matter how much they want to see it through even though some like @Jellyfish42 have been able to do it.