Propanolol OD experience

[ThisUnrest]

My 25mg Amitriptyline tablets have a smooth, dark red coating. Presumably a thin coating. They are in jars, not in packets. Does that mean it's okay to crush them or not? Does it all congeal together in your stomach? Is it still effective for ctb? Thoughts?

 

[John Ryder]

Do you think film-coated tablets would work because it's just a thin film? Or is it also there to prevent CTB?

My 25mg Amitriptyline tablets have a smooth, dark red coating. Presumably a thin coating. They are in jars, not in packets. Does that mean it's okay to crush them or not? Does it all congeal together in your stomach? Is it still effective for ctb? Thoughts?

Sorry, yeah Kera and I discussed this a little earlier and there is apparent variation in amitriptyline by brand/territory. I have a small amount (not near enough for ctb) in basic tablet form no coating. Kera has thick coated dragees and yall have...whatever tf you have, haha. If you go by what Kera shared, no to both on crushing, thin film or hard coat. I'll try and look into the thing on taking whole alongside acidic liquid. It was here on an old thread I think but I'd have to dig it up

 

[Galaxie76]

Sorry, yeah Kera and I discussed this a little earlier and there is apparent variation in amitriptyline by brand/territory. I have a small amount (not near enough for ctb) in basic tablet form no coating. Kera has thick coated dragees and yall have...whatever tf you have, haha. If you go by what Kera shared, no to both on crushing, thin film or hard coat. I'll try and look into the thing on taking whole alongside acidic liquid. It was here on an old thread I think but I'd have to dig it up

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, I also have the amitriptyline as dragees. As film coated tablets I have propranolol - but I also have the normal tablets that dissolve in water and would therefore have to take a few, a little less than 100 not crushed film coated tablets. That's why I'm worried about bolus

 

[Kera]

Do you think film-coated tablets would work because it's just a thin film? Or is it also there to prevent CTB?

What is characteristic of dragee is the firm, very stable coating of sugar or sugar syrup. The active ingredients are hidden as a core under this shell and consist of pressed powder. The coating consists of one or more layers. The layer is usually colored or contains other additives that have a positive effect on the smell or taste of the drug. Pharmacological properties, such as the site of action, the time of action and the duration of the drug action can also be influenced by the dragee coating.
In addition, dragees are not divisible.

This is different with the film-coated tablet. They as well have a smooth protective coating. This is made in a similar way to coated tablets, but usually consists of only one thin film. In addition, most film-coated tablets have a notch in the middle through which they break apart.
Therefore, I think it is also possible to crush the film-coated tablet.
If the film-coated tablets do not have a notch, I would not crush them!

My 25mg Amitriptyline tablets have a smooth, dark red coating. Presumably a thin coating. They are in jars, not in packets. Does that mean it's okay to crush them or not? Does it all congeal together in your stomach? Is it still effective for ctb? Thoughts?

Hmm, I know Amitriptyline only in blisters (packaging/sticks - individually wrapped to squeeze out) in a box/packaging as seen in my post #23.

But, as you describe the tablet, it is a coated tablet.

 

[John Ryder]

Do you think film-coated tablets would work because it's just a thin film? Or is it also there to prevent CTB?

My 25mg Amitriptyline tablets have a smooth, dark red coating. Presumably a thin coating. They are in jars, not in packets. Does that mean it's okay to crush them or not? Does it all congeal together in your stomach? Is it still effective for ctb? Thoughts?

I'm revisiting this because it hasn't been sitting well with me and I should have touched on this before. Coatings are generally a time release/sustain release mechanism, which is fine and good in normal usage. But you're trying to ctb. Crushing overrides that mechanism which is essential for that. The source Kera kindly shared seems to weirdly discount that important facet in the context of what you are trying to accomplish. Coating permits the medication to bypass the stomach so it is gradually released as it makes its way through the intestine, yes. This does not necessarily mean the active ingredient would be "destroyed" in the stomach. It's just not ideal for normal usage/intended time release. You want it all at once. It's possible even that source has misinterpreted this, they're not infallible. So for that reason, unless it divulges detail about specific medications/key ingredients, e.g. the amitriptyline we're talking here, that are in fact compromised and destroyed by stomach acid before proper absorption, I'm going to say crush away, which eliminates bollus risk, is more efficient and less tedious than a big bowl of applesauce (wam and bam), and defeats time release for ctb purpose. Crush + water is still the play here, imho.

 

[Galaxie76]

I'm revisiting this because it hasn't been sitting well with me and I should have touched on this before. Coatings are generally a time release/sustain release mechanism, which is fine and good in normal usage. But you're trying to ctb. Crushing overrides that mechanism which is essential for that. The source Kera kindly shared seems to weirdly discount that important facet in the context of what you are trying to accomplish. Coating permits the medication to bypass the stomach so it is gradually released as it makes its way through the intestine, yes. This does not necessarily mean the active ingredient would be "destroyed" in the stomach. It's just not ideal for normal usage/intended time release. You want it all at once. It's possible even that source has misinterpreted this, they're not infallible. So for that reason, unless it divulges detail about specific medications/key ingredients, e.g. the amitriptyline we're talking here, that are in fact compromised and destroyed by stomach acid before proper absorption, I'm going to say crush away, which eliminates bollus risk, is more efficient and less tedious than a big bowl of applesauce (wam and bam), and defeats time release for ctb purpose. Crush + water is still the play here, imho.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

I´m asking Google to trying to figure out if ami gets destroyed by stomach acid. What I found out was that Ami is actually available as a normal tablet.

That means the active substance is apparently NOT destroyed by the stomach acid. Normal tablets dissolve immediately in the stomach.
So we should also be able to crush the dragees and thus only cancel the time delay and not the effect. Or am I thinking wrong?

 

[John Ryder]

What I found out was that Ami is actually available as a normal tablet.

That means the active substance is apparently NOT destroyed by the stomach acid. Normal tablets dissolve immediately in the stomach.
So we should also be able to crush the dragees and thus only cancel the time delay and not the effect. Or am I thinking wrong?

They are, I mentioned having a small amount earlier in the thread. Your thinking is spot on to best of my knowledge. As you say the very availability of an uncoated tab points to this. There may be medications where this is the case but ami doesn't appear to be one.

 

[Galaxie76]

They are, I mentioned having a small amount earlier in the thread. Your thinking is spot on to best of my knowledge

Thank you so much for your help. So you can at least crush the coated tablets with the active ingredient amitriptyline, as well as the film-coated tablets of propranolol (there are also normal tablets) and dissolve them in water.
Then they also work together and without time delay

 

[John Ryder]

Thank you so much for your help. So you can at least crush the coated tablets with the active ingredient amitriptyline, as well as the film-coated tablets of propranolol (there are also normal tablets) and dissolve them in water.
Then they also work together and without time delay

It's the same idea as the ami. Anything available in uncoated form presumably does fine in the stomach. You said you already have the film tablets right? You should be good

 

[Galaxie76]

It's the same idea as the ami. Anything available in uncoated form presumably does fine in the stomach. You said you already have the film tablets right? You should be good

Yes, I have the Amitriptylin as coated tablets (200 pieces ). Propranolol as film-coated tablets (80 mg) and as normal tablets(40 mg)

 

[yasmine299]

So if I have propranolol as prolonged release capsules (which seems to have little balls inside them), does breaking the capsule and mixing whatever ball like things are there inside it in water would make it work as normal tablets?

 

[befree]

Yes, open the capsules, crush the balls and mix the powder with water.

 

[Kera]

I'm revisiting this because it hasn't been sitting well with me and I should have touched on this before. Coatings are generally a time release/sustain release mechanism, which is fine and good in normal usage. But you're trying to ctb. Crushing overrides that mechanism which is essential for that. The source Kera kindly shared seems to weirdly discount that important facet in the context of what you are trying to accomplish. Coating permits the medication to bypass the stomach so it is gradually released as it makes its way through the intestine, yes. This does not necessarily mean the active ingredient would be "destroyed" in the stomach. It's just not ideal for normal usage/intended time release. You want it all at once. It's possible even that source has misinterpreted this, they're not infallible. So for that reason, unless it divulges detail about specific medications/key ingredients, e.g. the amitriptyline we're talking here, that are in fact compromised and destroyed by stomach acid before proper absorption, I'm going to say crush away, which eliminates bollus risk, is more efficient and less tedious than a big bowl of applesauce (wam and bam), and defeats time release for ctb purpose. Crush + water is still the play here, imho.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

I´m asking Google to trying to figure out if ami gets destroyed by stomach acid. What I found out was that Ami is actually available as a normal tablet.

That means the active substance is apparently NOT destroyed by the stomach acid. Normal tablets dissolve immediately in the stomach.
So we should also be able to crush the dragees and thus only cancel the time delay and not the effect. Or am I thinking wrong?

John Ryder says "Coatings are generally a time-delayed/sustained release mechanism"

Yes, if it is a gastric-resistant dragee.
For a sustained release, there is the sustained-release tablet.

The very stable coating is primarily intended to protect against environmental influences such as water or oxygen. This protects active ingredients that are neither water nor oxygen stable.

Galaxie76 says: "Normal tablets dissolve immediately in the stomach."

Most tablets only work when the drug – i.e. the active ingredient in the tablet – is released in the intestine.

For example, you take a pill with plenty of water and it goes through your mouth through the esophagus into the stomach. From there it goes into the intestine. The intestine is the main absorption site for active ingredients. Your body then sends the substances through the body via the blood.

I have a small overview here:

As with the film-coated tablet, the coated tablet has several functions:

The taste of the drug is pleasant.
The medicine smells good.
The smooth surface makes it easy to swallow the tablet.
The coating protects the active pharmaceutical ingredient from external influences, such as reactions with atmospheric oxygen, water or wear and tear during storage.
The shell can also be constructed in such a way that the dragee is resistant to gastric juice . An active ingredient that is only supposed to develop its effect in the small intestine is thus protected from undesirable decomposition by gastric acid. The tablet coating then only dissolves in the intestine.
Coloring the medicine with food coloring makes it easier to distinguish it from other medicines and thus increases medicine safety.

Some active pharmaceutical ingredients processed in medicines are very sensitive to acids. When they come into contact with stomach acid, these substances begin to decompose. This is not desirable for all means. The coat of the dragee coating is z. B. from shellac and ensures that the drug passes through the stomach and only unfolds its effect in the intestine.


Extended-Release Tablets
Sustained-release tablets are intended to release their active ingredient with a time delay as they migrate through the intestine . They are appropriate when a constant level of active ingredient is desired. There are several possibilities for that. Among other things, the manufacturers use indigestible carriers from whose pores the active ingredient only gradually escapes. The carrier substance is then excreted apparently unchanged, which can confuse uninformed patients. "The carrier can also be very hard, so don't bite the prolonged-release tablets". Time and time again, patients would break a tooth when trying to chew

Conclusion: With film-coated tablets, I no longer see a problem in crushing them because of the thin film layer.
I have a bitter aftertaste when it comes to dragee.
It's a pity that you can't ask either Amor or emgrl. But I suspect that they had Ami as a pill.

 

[Orbitc]

I'm using "pills" interchangeably with tablets, the way most people do, just to distinguish between a solid pressed mass vs medication in a capsule. It may not be technically accurate but I think most would know what I meant. Things like applesauce, yogurt, custard can be ok, but sugar in those foods can affect gastric emptying and sometimes the sweetness combines with the bitterness of medication for an an even more odd and unpleasant taste than the medication alone. This is why I prefer and recommended water - it's quick and efficient and doesn't potentially affect the stomach.

water is best because some substances may have chemical reactions with the acid in juice or with the calcium in milk. I took metronidazole with milk several times and got a terrible headache until I realized that this should not be done.