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- Jan 5, 2023
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Hi,
Rough draft โ please suggest information, links, changes. Aimed at 95% of target audience (FAQ shouldnt address exceptional cases/patients). Written for myself over 3 months , pasted with little proof-reading. Any harmful, inciting, or misleading info here should be removed. So let me know.
Q
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Disclaimer & Information
Is this a guide? NO. Goal โ clarify frequent questions , provide links to read
- Most had been addressed in the guide or thread.
- First read Stan's Guide and Stan's thread
- Almost nothing here is new
How to find MEDICATION X ?Can I use MEDICAION Y ? Can't answer that.
There are literally 100s of brands(!) of AE, antacids, benzo, painkillers. You must search brand and compare ingredients.Should I trust this FAQ? NO. Many things are common knowledge/practices.
This is not scientific, do research.
SUMMARY
Function Hard to get How often used with SN (very rough estimate) Better SN intakeAntiemetics (AE) Stomach emptying, anti-vomiting Yes 70% Antacid / Acid-Reducers May improve absorption No 80% Ease symptomsPainkillers (NSAID) Headache, pain No 90% Benzo / Sedatives Anxiety, pain, induce sleep Partially 70% Beta Blockers Strong/fast heartbeat Partially 40%
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Antiemetics (AE)What they do:
- Move SN quick to intestine โ fatal
Reduce vomitingDo I need it? No, but recommended.
Could go either way. No definitive answer.
- Many used SN fatally without AE
- Many vomited even with AE
Are they available? NO. Prescription only.
Notes โ
- Ask physician, example (original post)
- Search Internet
- Consult existing threads (others looking for it)
Acquiring or importing prescription-only medication without a prescription is illegal.
Antiemetics are not "restricted substance" but if caught may be fined (investigation unlikely).
Forging prescription is a serious crime.Warnings: CAUTION.
- Meto & Prochlorperazine may cause problems.
- Must check contraindication to existing meds.
- Test small dosage (5mg) well before your ctb:
- Mild effects โ try another small dose 8h later, or with painkillers (tolerance: less side effects)
- Severe effects โ avoid.
Will any antiemetic work? NO.
Antiemetics:
- Guide provides 6 AEs โ only use those.
- Must target dopamine (Domperidone, Prochlorperazine)
- Preferably serotonin as well (Metoclopramide)
Common antiemetics โ short review Domperidone is efficient as Metoclopramide for anti-vomiting (research)
- Prochlorperazine โ โstrongest dopamine blocker , no quick stomach emptying , high EPS risk
- Metoclopramide โ โstrong dopamine blocker , โ quick stomach emptying , moderate EPS risk
- Domperidone โ โgood dopamine blocker , โ quick stomach emptying , little EPS risk
Will X work as AE?If not in guide and you've searched threads, then NO.
Don't use as antiemetics โ
Serotonin or Histamine only are not as effective. They don't promote gastric emptying.
- Ondansetron/Zofran
- Diphenhydramine/Benadryl
- Dimenhydrinate/Dramamine
Read guide (AE by type โ need dopamine antagonist)What are "The 13 Antipsychotics"? Replace AE completely โ ONLY if part of your regular health treatment.
Do not take a single dose; Do not change prescribed dosage.
- Personally-tailored โ dosage varies greatly between individuals (explained here & here)
- If used regularly they replace AE โ use Stat directions (without meto).
- Stan listed meds with nM (receptor affinity). Higher numbers may indicate stronger effects.
- Example .
Antiemetics โ "Meto"Warnings: Many are fine with it; some aren't; for a few poses a risk.
- Contraindications โ SSRI, SNRI, TCAs, many anti-psychotics, and more.
- EPS effects โ muscle spasms, jerky movements, tremors.
- EPS effects relieved with Diphenhydramine/Benadryl
- Members reported other effects(non EPS):
- "extreme unease in body, driving me crazy"
- "made me feel very ill, my whole body"
- "after taking meto went to sleep 4 hour"
- "throbbing headache"
Note โ Prochlorperazine Not Meto, but same warnings apply.
- Prochlorperazine has higher EPS risk
Why Meto preferred? Only antiemetic that:
This means:
- Targets both dopamine and 5HT3, and
- Crosses into the brain
However read "Do I need it"; alternatives (5) are fine.
- Strong stomach emptying effect
- Strong anti-vomiting vomiting effect
Can strong effect achieved without Meto? Ondansetron and Domperidone target peripheral receptors, not the brain (less side effects):
Domperidone (Dopamine, less EPS)
+
Ondansetron (5HT3, less EPS)
=
Metoclopramide (Dopamine+5HT3 , Brain/EPS)Bad Meto reaction โ what to do? Take Diphenhydramine/Benadryl
'Failing Meto' is fine, may:
- Use any of the other 5 on the list, or
- Ctb without antiemetics (many have but follow guide)
Antiemetics - Stat/RegimenWhat is it? "Regimen/State" refers only to antiemetics.
Two ways to take antiemetics:
This may apply to N (consult guides).
- One single dose โ Stat
- or
- Over 24h-48h โ Regimen
Stat or Regimen?Both used with equal success.
Depends on your sensitivities, conditions, and preferences.Regimen โ
- Builds tolerance โ reduces side-effects
- Increased effectiveness โ accumulates (also) โ increased stomach tone over time
- Comfortable โ structured, feel prepared for ctb
Stat โ
- Efficacy appears similar with less hassle (no schedule)
- Less worry โ like side effects during 2 days
- Comfortable โ not demanding, no anxious wait, quick & simple
So, which should I choose? Really up to you.
Regimen came from PPH, for old/fragile/sick people. This may address you, could decrease discomfort.
Stat is effective, great, easy option for many people. Taking it with benzo & Antiemetics - Stat/Regimen GuidelinesWhat are the dosages/schedule? Read guide. Follow everything there.
โ This section intended only for details not in guide โ
.Domperidone - Stat Same as meto.
NotesProchlorperazine โ Stat Smaller dosage โ 10 to 20 mg
NotesMeto โ Regimen See guide.
Schedule however more flexiblethan commonly published โ
- Just take 3 a day over 24-48h
- morning lunch evening, 7-9h apart
Domperidone โ Regimen Same.
Best to stick with it. Member was fine after trying 48h regimen x 20mg (instead of 10mg)
Research concludes:
- Acummulation โ "2 to 3-fold accumulation observed with repeated 4 times daily every 5 hr for 4 days."
- But only 3+ a day โ "after two weeks of single 30mg per day peak plasma level almost same"
Prochlorperazine โ Regimen Same as Meto (10mg x 3 times a day) โ but final dose smaller , like Stat
Notes Fasting โ important?Yes, but flexible. Don't overdo it, follow your habits.
- 5h โ Empty stomach, partially small intestines โ Good enough.
- 8h โ Empty most small intestines โ Good.
- 12h โ Long fasting not required (may cause discomfort).
- According to your habits/feeling; if you eat just twice a day, 12h fine.
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Acid-stuffWhat they do: Stan detailed that process
- Stomach acidity
- May help SN absorption
Do I need those? No. But many use these.
Considered helpful, widely-available, cause little harm.Are they available? OTC / Internet
- Milk of Magnesia โ widely available, just as effective.
- For other brands โ search big sites
(1) Antacids What they do: Neutralizes acid on the spot Known antacids:
- Any antacid with magnesium hydroxide.
- Check any available OTC for ingredients with that.
- Milk of Magnesia.
Can I use other antacids? We don't know.
- PPH pervioiusly recommended sodium bicarbonate, this was changed to acid-regulator.
(2) Acid-regulators What they do: Unlike antacids they reduce acid creation beforehand Which should I use? H2-receptor antagonists only Which I should not use? Proton pump inhibitors (PPI) do not work. Don't use them .
- Check medication ingredients and google to check if it's PPI .
What if I'm already taking acid-regulators? If PPI used regularly, as part of health treatment โ
If PPI used occasionally โ
- Continue your PPI as normal (don't use antacids or acid-regulators) .
- you can try to replace it with acid-regulators listed below (test it).
Known acid-regulators: Cimetidine/Tagamet, Rantidine/Zantac, Famotidine Can I use other acid-regulators? No. May interfere with absorption. Other Questions Which should I use? Either is fine, whatever you want. Can I use antacids and acid-regulators together? We don't know. Probably not good to mix. Wiki says not to use acid-regulators Stan recommended plain antacid, and gave acid-regulators which should work as well.
The wiki reference was deemed incomprehensible (here, here, here)
Benzo / SedativesWhat they do:
- Reduce anxiety
- Reduce bad physical sensations
- Induce sleep
Do I need it? No, many didn't use these at all
But considered useful for anxiety and peaceful journeyAre they available? Kinda.
- Prescription only โ but very common
- In many places GPs prescribe benzo for many reasons.
Warnings: Yes, though not harmful:
- Benzos effects vary greatly:
- Potency, tolerance, onset (how quick), duration (how long) change.
- Some benzo affects within 10m, others take 1h, and this changes individually
- Taken too soon โ may fall asleep before SN.
- Test small dosage beforehand.
Which benzo to use?
Is benzo X good?Can't answer that. There are dozens.
- Anything that affects you more than 4h.
- Personally check this.
- Benzo "half-life" does not indicate long/short effects.
Other SedativesCan I use opioids? YES. But:
- Check contraindications
- Note anything of the opioid family significantly reduces:
May take twice the time.
- metabolism
- gastric emptying
- intestinal absorption
Beta BlockersWhat they do: These meds reduce blood pressure.
- Reduce fast strong heartbeat after SN
- May reduce possible headache
Do I need it? No.
- Most people dont use it ; considered somewhat of luxury
- Some already use these, or find it easy to get due to prior conditions.
- Benzo/painkillers should help with sensations.
Are they available? Prescription only. You should consult physician. Which should I use? Propanolol Can I use others? We don't know
PainkillersWhat they do: Many experience moderate headache or general pain (rated 4/10):
- Helps headaches or pain
Do I need it? No. But almost everyone use these. Considered helpful, widely-available, cause little harm. Are they available? OTCWhich should I use? Ibuprofen, or
Paracetamol/acetaminophenCan I use others? Yes
- General NSAIDs that works for you
- Specific pain medication that works for you
Wondering about this too, can anyone help us? I don't wannaHey sorry to bump an old thread but this my AE too. I was planning 30mg stat dose. This guide says 40 max but I saw a FAQ guide that to take a smaller dose of Prochlorperazine 10-20mg. Anyone have input?
Not an old thread lol sorry. Cheers whoops