SpecialK
Student
- Apr 15, 2019
- 155
@Stan do you think 300mg of Quietiapine will do the job as antiemetic? I've read that they act as antiemetics.
Stan
Factoid Hunter
- Aug 29, 2019
- 2,589
Malletboy
Member
- Nov 27, 2019
- 52
Would my Aripiprazole (Abilify) work as an atiemetic. I'm already taking it prescribed by my psychiatrist and have plenty of it. Apparently it's an atypical antipsychotic
BPD_LE
The Queen of Meme
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,576
No. You need a dopamine antagonist. Aripiprazole is a dopamine partial agonist.
NeCkDeEp
Experienced
- Nov 30, 2019
- 285
Does anyone know or the SN on Amazon will be reliable?
I have found SN with the following information: NaNo2 0.6% will this be less reliable or?
I ordered yesterday SN on eBay but it will arrive on Friday which feels like ages away, however if the one on Amazon is reliable then I'm willing to use that one Monday bc the SN from Amazon will be here tomorrow if I'd order it
I have found SN with the following information: NaNo2 0.6% will this be less reliable or?
I ordered yesterday SN on eBay but it will arrive on Friday which feels like ages away, however if the one on Amazon is reliable then I'm willing to use that one Monday bc the SN from Amazon will be here tomorrow if I'd order it
MeltingHeart
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2019
- 2,151
CyanideSoup
Memento mori
- Oct 1, 2019
- 463
NeCkDeEp
Experienced
- Nov 30, 2019
- 285
Ksab
Sorcerer
- Dec 4, 2019
- 74
NitriteAnatomy
Lost. Alone. Trapped. Need escape.
- Nov 21, 2019
- 450
nitrogen
Schrödinger's cat
- Nov 5, 2019
- 339
@Science Is Scary I was wondering about the same thing! I live in the U.S. and have Kaiser Permanente health insurance. It's my guess that the reason why PPH suggests ondansetron (Zofran) because it's probably the first line of treatment for nausea and vomiting in the US. PPH's contact address is listed in Washington state, US.
My entire family got moderate food poisoning last month, including my 2 y/o daughter. I called Kaiser - they have advisor nurses available on the phone 24/7, 365 days a year. After hearing my description of our symptoms, the advisor nurse got a physician to prescribe Zofran for the baby and myself. Mind you, the baby vomited eight times within a 2 hr timeframe. She projectile vomited EVERYTHING we fed her through both mouth and nose, couldn't even hold water down. Because she didn't vomit bile or blood, did not run a fever, the nurse didn't think it was serious enough to bring her into the ER. It's really easy to get an Rx for Zofran in the US.
I know Stan replied to this question of yours saying "Ondansetron, looking at this I could see no detail saying it dealt with the right type of the brain for this. If you can I would be happy to include it." I mean I read this 10 times and I don't understand what he meant.
Do you have this figured out yet? Does anybody know what excuse to use to get Rx for metoclopramide in the US? If it's easy to get Rx for meto, is meto still more ideal than Zofran?
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Science Is Scary
Evidence is the path to the truth. Maybe.
- Oct 17, 2019
- 87
I haven't really learned much more about antiemetics than what I posted, @nitrogen. I'm still very confused.
Using NICE Evidence Search, I found an article that outlines different mechanisms of persistent nausea and vomiting. Those various mechanisms may be what Stan was referring to. I haven't done enough research to say which mechanism seems appropriate for sodium nitrite poisoning. The mechanism might suggest which antiemetics are most appropriate.
You may be able to look up various evidence-based treatment guides on NICE Evidence Search and the FDA Labels for Metoclopramide to see when one antiemetic might be prescribed over another.
If you find anything interesting, I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks for your interest.
Using NICE Evidence Search, I found an article that outlines different mechanisms of persistent nausea and vomiting. Those various mechanisms may be what Stan was referring to. I haven't done enough research to say which mechanism seems appropriate for sodium nitrite poisoning. The mechanism might suggest which antiemetics are most appropriate.
You may be able to look up various evidence-based treatment guides on NICE Evidence Search and the FDA Labels for Metoclopramide to see when one antiemetic might be prescribed over another.
If you find anything interesting, I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks for your interest.
sleepy dog
Wizard
- Sep 13, 2019
- 624
I you go to this link and click on TARGETS, the page will scroll to that section. Nowhere in that section does it say "dopamine receptor". I think that's what it needs to target to be an anti-emetic. But I am not a doctor, biologist, or chemist.
https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00904
https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00904
I'm using ranittidine as antacid but I read that it reaches its highest blood concentration 1~3h after taken orally, so I'm kinda worried if it'll be able to do its thing if it's taken only 30 minutes before SN?
BPD_LE
The Queen of Meme
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,576
Zofran has a low affinity to dopamine. The effective antiemetics for SN are dopamine antagonists/blockers like meto.
Ranitidine is a H2 Blocker which prevents the stomach from producing acid. H2 Blockers can start working within 30mins but you are correct when you say the optimal effects can take up to 3 hours. You may want to look into taking a simple OTC antacid instead as it's faster acting.
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sleepy dog
Wizard
- Sep 13, 2019
- 624
Where did you get that information? I want to look up some other drugs for the same data.
I found the information on baidubaike which is kinda like a Chinese version of wikipedia.. it's easier for me to read since I'm Chinese
sleepy dog
Wizard
- Sep 13, 2019
- 624
It says the half-life time is 2~3h in the pharmacokinetics(药代动力学) part
雷尼替丁_百度百科
雷尼替丁，又名呋喃硝胺，为强效组胺H2受体拮抗剂。作用比西咪替丁强5～8倍，且作用时间更持久。能有效地抑制组胺、五肽胃泌素和氨甲酰胆碱刺激后引起的胃酸分泌，降低胃酸和胃酶活性，主要用于胃酸过多、烧心的治疗。...
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Victory
Member
- Dec 11, 2019
- 11
nitrogen
Schrödinger's cat
- Nov 5, 2019
- 339
Greetings mathafakas,
So I read this entire thread once, did some research and lied to my doctor (successfully, muahaha),
Here are some results:
Besides taking antacids, there's more you can do to minimize the amount of HCl present in your stomach when you ingest SN - looks like nobody has mentioned it on this thread:
Avoid an environment with exposure to the sight and smell of food; don't even think about food, don't chew gum. As much as 30-50% of the total postprandial gastric acid secretions produced is stimulated by anticipation of eating, the smell or taste of food, the acts of eating (chewing and swallowing) during the cephalic phase of gastric acid secretion [1]. Signaling of this process is involuntary, so you can't control it with your mind or will [1].
Fast and use only enough water that allows SN to completely dissolve. About 60% of the total acid for a meal is produced during the gastric phase [5]. The acid secretion is stimulated by distension of the stomach and amino acids present in food [2]. The remaining 10% of gastric acid is secreted when chyme (the semi-fluid mixture of partly digested food and gastric juice) enters the upper portion of the small intestines during the intestinal phase [5][2]. If your living situation doesn't allow you to fast, avoid foods rich in protein, caffeine, etc [3].
Here's a helpful diagram on what stimulates and what inhibits gastric juice secretion:
However, even if you're fasting and manage to stay away from the sight, smell, thought and the act of eating food, there's still a small continuous basal secretion of gastric acid [4].
If being found and interrupted isn't a concern, I actually think doing the stat dose first thing in the morning is better than taking it at midnight as Stan suggested. Fasting for 8 hours during your sleep is a piece of cake; whereas fasting during the day when you're awake is unpleasant and would make your stomach extra sensitive to the stimulation of the thoughts, smell, sight of food [16]. In addition, when people fast for an extended period of time, like during the two-day regimen or fast throughout the entire day, many people already feel nauseated from hunger, compounded with ingestion of SN will just make them even more nauseated due to HCl buildup in the stomach and chemical balancing act of the "hunger hormones" in the body gets thrown out of whack [15]. FYI, if the hunger signals aren't ignored for too long, the hunger hormones (leptin & ghrelin) stay in balance [15].
I wish Stan is still around to compare notes with me and let me pick his brain. May he rest in peace.
ONDANSETRON VS METOCLOPRAMIDE
Ondansetron and metoclopramide belong to different drug classes. Ondansetron is an anti-nausea medication and metoclopramide is a prokinetic medication, although both have antiemetic effects through different mechanisms [6].
Ondansetron, a serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonist that blocks the effects of serotonin in both the brain and gastrointestinal tract to reduce nausea and vomiting [7][10].
Metoproclamide as a prokinetic agent, interacts with acetylcholine and dopamine receptors on gastrointestinal muscles and nerves to improve the muscle action - strengthens the lower esophageal sphincter (prevent stomach content from flowing up thus antiemetic) and increase stomach muscle contraction (speeds up emptying stomach content into intestines thus prokinetic) [8][9]. Meto can considerably speed up intestinal absorption of certain orally administered drugs, perhaps can make SN work quickly and reduce the amount of SN being broken down by stomach acid [11][12].
My research suggests that Ondansetron (Zofran) causes fewer and milder side effects (mostly just headache, fatigue, constipation and diarrhea) than meto. Metoproclamide, on the other hand, can cause serious neurological symptoms although one time use or short term use will unlikely trigger them [6]. Ondansetron is indicated for the pediatric population but metoproclamide is not - another indicator that ondansetron is safer in terms of side effects [14].
I just got my hands on the Peaceful Pill eHandbook March 2019 version through this thread:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-peaceful-pill-ehandbook-march-24-2019-revision.14416/
Big thanks to @HelensNepenthe for sharing the PPH. Also, this is her 3rd post of her thread, about PPH's last several revisions on SN.
The earlier versions say vomiting is unlikely, then the latest March 2019 version says it's possible. I suppose that means vomiting isn't a huge concern for most ppl who choose this method.
@Science Is Scary Where did you see the PPH suggests ondansetron? I only see it suggests meto (I haven't read through the entire book, only the SN section from page 149-157).
A NOTE ON PAIN KILLER
When it comes to choosing a pain killer, avoid the opioids category, such as oxycodone - looks like nobody has mentioned it on this thread - opioids dramatically slow down gastric emptying, which means SN sits in the stomach longer, more SN gets broken down by gastric acid, absorption of SN through small intestine is delayed and takes longer to die [13].
STORIES USED TO SUCCESSFUL OBTAIN METO RX IN THE USA
I lied to my doc today and she prescribed me metoclopramide, here's a screenshot of the correspondence for your reference. PS, neither my husband nor myself took meto before - it's a lie:
So yeah, meto is super easy to get in the US. Just shoot an email or call your doc. No office or ER visit required, no lab tests required.
STORIES USED TO SUCCESSFUL OBTAIN ONDANSETRON RX IN THE USA
Food poisoning - say you're vomiting and can't keep food down; but alert, no fever, not vomiting blood or bile. Again, Rx is super easy to get. Just email or call your doc. No need for office or ER visits. I know if you Google ondansetron (Zofran) online and the internet will only say it's indicated for nausea and vomiting caused by chemotherapy (cancer drug treatment) and after surgery, but it's definitely the first line of treatment for food poisoning without serious alarming symptoms - I can tell you that from personal experience.
@passenger27 Your avatar makes me nauseated and gives me a headache. I bet it can trigger photosensitive epilepsy in some people.
@Ineedtobedead 中国现在好像很流行喝百草枯， 没几个人知道SN哎。
References:
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/cephalic-phase
[2] https://opentextbc.ca/anatomyandphysiology/chapter/23-4-the-stomach/
[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5544304/
[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC424132/
[5] https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/the-role-of-hcl-in-gastric-function-and-health/
[6]https://www.medicinenet.com/ondanse...ide_effects_of_ondansetron_and_metoclopramide
[7] https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00023210-199708050-00005
[8] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699728/
[9] https://www.medicinenet.com/metoclopramide/article.htm
[10]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2426995/
[11] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958284
[12] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7882635
[13] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gastroparesis/symptoms-causes/syc-20355787
[14] https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=3cc8ca5b-8b71-4c77-a181-9ce154597b9a
[15] https://www.livescience.com/why-nauseous-when-hungry.html
[16] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2297467/
So I read this entire thread once, did some research and lied to my doctor (successfully, muahaha),
Here are some results:
Besides taking antacids, there's more you can do to minimize the amount of HCl present in your stomach when you ingest SN - looks like nobody has mentioned it on this thread:
Avoid an environment with exposure to the sight and smell of food; don't even think about food, don't chew gum. As much as 30-50% of the total postprandial gastric acid secretions produced is stimulated by anticipation of eating, the smell or taste of food, the acts of eating (chewing and swallowing) during the cephalic phase of gastric acid secretion [1]. Signaling of this process is involuntary, so you can't control it with your mind or will [1].
Fast and use only enough water that allows SN to completely dissolve. About 60% of the total acid for a meal is produced during the gastric phase [5]. The acid secretion is stimulated by distension of the stomach and amino acids present in food [2]. The remaining 10% of gastric acid is secreted when chyme (the semi-fluid mixture of partly digested food and gastric juice) enters the upper portion of the small intestines during the intestinal phase [5][2]. If your living situation doesn't allow you to fast, avoid foods rich in protein, caffeine, etc [3].
Here's a helpful diagram on what stimulates and what inhibits gastric juice secretion:
However, even if you're fasting and manage to stay away from the sight, smell, thought and the act of eating food, there's still a small continuous basal secretion of gastric acid [4].
If being found and interrupted isn't a concern, I actually think doing the stat dose first thing in the morning is better than taking it at midnight as Stan suggested. Fasting for 8 hours during your sleep is a piece of cake; whereas fasting during the day when you're awake is unpleasant and would make your stomach extra sensitive to the stimulation of the thoughts, smell, sight of food [16]. In addition, when people fast for an extended period of time, like during the two-day regimen or fast throughout the entire day, many people already feel nauseated from hunger, compounded with ingestion of SN will just make them even more nauseated due to HCl buildup in the stomach and chemical balancing act of the "hunger hormones" in the body gets thrown out of whack [15]. FYI, if the hunger signals aren't ignored for too long, the hunger hormones (leptin & ghrelin) stay in balance [15].
I wish Stan is still around to compare notes with me and let me pick his brain. May he rest in peace.
ONDANSETRON VS METOCLOPRAMIDE
Ondansetron and metoclopramide belong to different drug classes. Ondansetron is an anti-nausea medication and metoclopramide is a prokinetic medication, although both have antiemetic effects through different mechanisms [6].
Ondansetron, a serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonist that blocks the effects of serotonin in both the brain and gastrointestinal tract to reduce nausea and vomiting [7][10].
Metoproclamide as a prokinetic agent, interacts with acetylcholine and dopamine receptors on gastrointestinal muscles and nerves to improve the muscle action - strengthens the lower esophageal sphincter (prevent stomach content from flowing up thus antiemetic) and increase stomach muscle contraction (speeds up emptying stomach content into intestines thus prokinetic) [8][9]. Meto can considerably speed up intestinal absorption of certain orally administered drugs, perhaps can make SN work quickly and reduce the amount of SN being broken down by stomach acid [11][12].
My research suggests that Ondansetron (Zofran) causes fewer and milder side effects (mostly just headache, fatigue, constipation and diarrhea) than meto. Metoproclamide, on the other hand, can cause serious neurological symptoms although one time use or short term use will unlikely trigger them [6]. Ondansetron is indicated for the pediatric population but metoproclamide is not - another indicator that ondansetron is safer in terms of side effects [14].
I just got my hands on the Peaceful Pill eHandbook March 2019 version through this thread:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-peaceful-pill-ehandbook-march-24-2019-revision.14416/
Big thanks to @HelensNepenthe for sharing the PPH. Also, this is her 3rd post of her thread, about PPH's last several revisions on SN.
The earlier versions say vomiting is unlikely, then the latest March 2019 version says it's possible. I suppose that means vomiting isn't a huge concern for most ppl who choose this method.
@Science Is Scary Where did you see the PPH suggests ondansetron? I only see it suggests meto (I haven't read through the entire book, only the SN section from page 149-157).
A NOTE ON PAIN KILLER
When it comes to choosing a pain killer, avoid the opioids category, such as oxycodone - looks like nobody has mentioned it on this thread - opioids dramatically slow down gastric emptying, which means SN sits in the stomach longer, more SN gets broken down by gastric acid, absorption of SN through small intestine is delayed and takes longer to die [13].
STORIES USED TO SUCCESSFUL OBTAIN METO RX IN THE USA
I lied to my doc today and she prescribed me metoclopramide, here's a screenshot of the correspondence for your reference. PS, neither my husband nor myself took meto before - it's a lie:
So yeah, meto is super easy to get in the US. Just shoot an email or call your doc. No office or ER visit required, no lab tests required.
STORIES USED TO SUCCESSFUL OBTAIN ONDANSETRON RX IN THE USA
Food poisoning - say you're vomiting and can't keep food down; but alert, no fever, not vomiting blood or bile. Again, Rx is super easy to get. Just email or call your doc. No need for office or ER visits. I know if you Google ondansetron (Zofran) online and the internet will only say it's indicated for nausea and vomiting caused by chemotherapy (cancer drug treatment) and after surgery, but it's definitely the first line of treatment for food poisoning without serious alarming symptoms - I can tell you that from personal experience.
@passenger27 Your avatar makes me nauseated and gives me a headache. I bet it can trigger photosensitive epilepsy in some people.
@Ineedtobedead 中国现在好像很流行喝百草枯， 没几个人知道SN哎。
References:
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/cephalic-phase
[2] https://opentextbc.ca/anatomyandphysiology/chapter/23-4-the-stomach/
[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5544304/
[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC424132/
[5] https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/the-role-of-hcl-in-gastric-function-and-health/
[6]https://www.medicinenet.com/ondanse...ide_effects_of_ondansetron_and_metoclopramide
[7] https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00023210-199708050-00005
[8] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699728/
[9] https://www.medicinenet.com/metoclopramide/article.htm
[10]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2426995/
[11] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958284
[12] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7882635
[13] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gastroparesis/symptoms-causes/syc-20355787
[14] https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=3cc8ca5b-8b71-4c77-a181-9ce154597b9a
[15] https://www.livescience.com/why-nauseous-when-hungry.html
[16] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2297467/
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Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
passenger27
In my beginning is my end.
- Aug 25, 2019
- 642
nitrogen
Schrödinger's cat
- Nov 5, 2019
- 339
There's more you can do to increase SN success rate - nobody has mentioned on this thread:
Start to take phytic acid supplement or eat a copious amount of almonds one week before you take your SN drink. Basically, phytic acid prevents methemoglobin from being converted back into hemoglobin - you want methemoglobin for SN method to work.
@deathbyginger did a marvelous job at explaining this in detail, so I won't be redundant here. This is the link to her thread if you want to learn more https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/1-week-dietary-supplement-regimen-sn.25744/
Phytic acid is mentioned in one of Dr. Nitschke's Vimeo videos. You can find the video on post #99 of the SN mega thread posted by one amazing SS member @mattwitt . Here's the link https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-megathread.1156/page-4
I picked up my meto from the pharmacy yesterday. My doc prescribed 60 10mg tablets, no refills. That's enough for 20 attempts with the stat dose regimen, lol. Here're the pics:
@Ark I just want to say you're a virtuous human being and I'm very fond of you. When my psychopathic tendencies take over me, your posts fill my heart with warmth. I go from this:
To this:
So thank you and I truly enjoy reading your posts.
Start to take phytic acid supplement or eat a copious amount of almonds one week before you take your SN drink. Basically, phytic acid prevents methemoglobin from being converted back into hemoglobin - you want methemoglobin for SN method to work.
@deathbyginger did a marvelous job at explaining this in detail, so I won't be redundant here. This is the link to her thread if you want to learn more https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/1-week-dietary-supplement-regimen-sn.25744/
Phytic acid is mentioned in one of Dr. Nitschke's Vimeo videos. You can find the video on post #99 of the SN mega thread posted by one amazing SS member @mattwitt . Here's the link https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-megathread.1156/page-4
I picked up my meto from the pharmacy yesterday. My doc prescribed 60 10mg tablets, no refills. That's enough for 20 attempts with the stat dose regimen, lol. Here're the pics:
@Ark I just want to say you're a virtuous human being and I'm very fond of you. When my psychopathic tendencies take over me, your posts fill my heart with warmth. I go from this:
To this:
So thank you and I truly enjoy reading your posts.
@nitrogen
Thank you for the kind words. I do my best to try to help everyone I can, however I can in their situation. I am afraid my honesty will upset people sometimes but, I try my best.
Also, nice post. Very informative and your research was obviously extensive. I also greatly enjoy reading your posts.
Thank you for the kind words. I do my best to try to help everyone I can, however I can in their situation. I am afraid my honesty will upset people sometimes but, I try my best.
Also, nice post. Very informative and your research was obviously extensive. I also greatly enjoy reading your posts.
Skyview
Going Blue
- Dec 9, 2019
- 473
Today my SN arrived , naNo2 (Anhydrous) 99.6% (8oz, 227grams x2) Now I just need to source the other components and have been reading the resource thread by Stan .
Science Is Scary
Evidence is the path to the truth. Maybe.
- Oct 17, 2019
- 87
I really appreciate you sharing your research, @nitrogen! You did great work.
Ondansetron is mentioned as an alternative in the Drugs and Vomiting section starting around page 180 of the March 2019 Peaceful Pill Handbook. That section talks about drugs and vomiting in general and not specifically sodium nitrite. It may or may not be relevant.
Ondansetron is mentioned as an alternative in the Drugs and Vomiting section starting around page 180 of the March 2019 Peaceful Pill Handbook. That section talks about drugs and vomiting in general and not specifically sodium nitrite. It may or may not be relevant.
Solo
Member
- Mar 28, 2019
- 57
where do i buy sn since the ones on amazon and ebay only ship to us
