Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Tears in Rain]

Oh man, thanks a ton. That really helped.
I feel kind of stupid not looking up pressure regulators on Youtube - that would have been such an obvious thing.

I've done some testing today and have run into a big/stupid problem:
the helium consumption rate is much too high.
If i set the flow-rate to 15l/min, the pressure sinks about 20 bar.
That would be 10 minutes for the whole cylinder (380 liters), which is about right because it's pretty much empty and 8-10 minutes may be what i got out of it.
I got another 10 liter cylinder now, but i don't dare touch it until i know what i do wrong.
My guess is that the flow-meter, which is made for Argon and CO2 doesn't translate to Helium - so the flow-rate i would have to set it to should be much, much lower?

No problem.

Yeah, those gases are of different weight. So helium is the lightest, then nitrogen, with argon the heaviest gas.
I've come across people talking about converting argon LPM to nitrogen, when using nitrogen with an argon regulator (15lpm on argon flowmeter=~18LPM nitrogen; ).
The conversion table people used was this one:


Helium is lighter again than nitrogen. Going by that conversion table(I could be corrected), 5LPM on an argon regulator gives 15LPM helium; 7LPM on argon regulator gives 21LPM helium.

If your regulator is both argon and CO2, then you should have argon readings.

 

[Elzar]

Do you have any idea what the approximate conversion rate from CO2 to Helium might be (if that is even the problem

No problem.

Yeah, those gases are of different weight. So helium is the lightest, then nitrogen, with argon the heaviest gas.
I've come across people talking about converting argon LPM to nitrogen, when using nitrogen with an argon regulator (15lpm on argon flowmeter=~18LPM nitrogen; ).
The conversion table people used was this one:
View attachment 129117

Helium is lighter again than nitrogen. Going by that conversion table(I could be corrected), 5LPM on an argon regulator gives 15LPM helium; 7LPM on argon regulator gives 21LPM helium.

If your regulator is both argon and CO2, then you should have argon readings.

Thank You!

That would be kind of difficult with that regulator/meter, because the scale from 0-6 is extremely small and only expands for flow-rates above that.
That's probably why the book resorts to the shut-off-valve as the way to manage the rate.
That would be really imprecise. Hmm.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Thank You!

That would be kind of difficult with that regulator/meter, because the scale from 0-6 is extremely small and only expands for flow-rates above that.
That's probably why the book resorts to the shut-off-valve as the way to manage the rate.
That would be really imprecise. Hmm.

Yeah, having looked at your regulator I see what you mean. 6lpm on argon regulator gives 19lpm helium. That's 20 mins worth of helium from a 380 litre cylinder. Given that death occurs after 5-10 mins, you'd have to make the call if that cylinder is large enough.

Using 2 cylinders with a t-joint connection and 2 regulators is an option, but obviously more expensive.

 

[Elzar]

Yeah, having looked at your regulator I see what you mean. 6lpm on argon regulator gives 19lpm helium. That's 20 mins worth of helium from a 380 litre cylinder. Given that death occurs after 5-10 mins, you'd have to make the call if that cylinder is large enough.

Using 2 cylinders with a t-joint connection and 2 regulators is an option, but obviously more expensive.

Yeah i got another 10 litre cylinder now, so having a slightly bigger flow-rate would be fine, i guess.
The most important part was understanding what was wrong with my setup.
Still, if possible, i'd like to get a better flow-meter. Not sure which and where. GD has an Argon regulator/flow-meter (for W21,8) that goes from 0-5l-min, which might be ideal? It's one of those with a "float meter". Also really expensive.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Yeah i got another 10 litre cylinder now, so having a slightly bigger flow-rate would be fine, i guess.
The most important part was understanding what was wrong with my setup.
Still, if possible, i'd like to get a better flow-meter. Not sure which and where. GD has an Argon regulator/flow-meter (for W21,8) that goes from 0-5l-min, which might be ideal? It's one of those with a "float meter". Also really expensive.

If you want 15lpm helium, then yeah, 0-5 LPM argon flowmeter would be fine. But if you think you might potentially use a higher flowrate, it might be worth getting something like a 0-10 LPM argon regulator with flowmieter.
But that's your call.

While helium party balloon cannisters were used a lot in the past to ctb, I've only seen one person in the inert gas set-ups gallery say they were using it, probably due to high purity helium being hard to get in some regions.

My Exit Bag Kit ( With Photos)

The time is near you guys. After quite a few false starts. And 3 cancelled hotel bookings. I finally have come to the end. My CTB date is this Thursday. And as promised I wanted to share details about my method. I am using industiral helium. I did discover a neat trick to get all the air out the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Goodbye SS Family: My Bus Arrives Tonight

I have 6-8 hours left. I'm a little nervous. But I generally feel at peace. I am in a beautiful location. I will be on and off the thread for the following hours right up until it is time for me to board, then I will self ban. FINALLY, I made it to the departure platform. This is the right thing...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Elzar]

While helium party balloon cannisters were used a lot in the past to ctb, I've only seen one person in the inert gas set-ups gallery say they were using it, probably due to high purity helium being hard to get in some regions.

My Exit Bag Kit ( With Photos)

The time is near you guys. After quite a few false starts. And 3 cancelled hotel bookings. I finally have come to the end. My CTB date is this Thursday. And as promised I wanted to share details about my method. I am using industiral helium. I did discover a neat trick to get all the air out the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Goodbye SS Family: My Bus Arrives Tonight

I have 6-8 hours left. I'm a little nervous. But I generally feel at peace. I am in a beautiful location. I will be on and off the thread for the following hours right up until it is time for me to board, then I will self ban. FINALLY, I made it to the departure platform. This is the right thing...

sanctioned-suicide.net

For Germany it seems to be pretty simple through GD.
The purity is described as guaranteed Helium 4.6 = 99,996%.
Hope that is true.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Thoughts on this type of a mask? They come with or or without the bag attachment. It attaches to an oxygen tank regulator and can go up to 15LPM

Would the oxygen tank regulator also fit a nitrogen tank?
View attachment 122546

I'm considering using a oxygen mask like this for the blackout test.

I tried getting a blackout using an EEBD hood and holding breath after breathing in nitrogen, but this isn't going to work.
I noticed shortness of breath happened faster and I had to breathe more often. Also had vision going dark a bit and some lightheadedness, but no obvious signs that I was going to blackout.
So this is too risky.

I'm considering a setup with a mask, and holding the mask against my face while there is tension on the hose so the mask snaps back after I blackout.

 

[Tears in Rain]

I'm considering using a oxygen mask like this for the blackout test.

I tried getting a blackout using an EEBD hood and holding breath after breathing in nitrogen, but this isn't going to work.
I noticed shortness of breath happened faster and I had to breathe more often. Also had vision going dark a bit and some lightheadedness, but no obvious signs that I was going to blackout.
So this is too risky.

I'm considering a setup with a mask, and holding the mask against my face while there is tension on the hose so the mask snaps back after I blackout.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like a proper blackout test can be done with the hood. What kind of hood have you got?

The mask is probably fine for the blackout test alright.

 

[Elzar]

Exit Bag question:
"Doing it with Betty" says to use a large oven bag. As does the german book i used to make mine - here the size of the oven bag is suggested as 55x60.
The PPeH, on the other hand, gives measurements of 35x50.
I think that's probably better, because my bag is too crumpled around the neck when it's drawn closed - a smaller diameter would surely alleviate that problem.

Thing is: I can't find any 35x50 oven bags - the closest is 35x43.
That would likely not make too big of a difference?
I remember reading about other kinds of bags to use (which make less noise than oven bags), but can't remember what those were..

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like a proper blackout test can be done with the hood. What kind of hood have you got?

The mask is probably fine for the blackout test alright.

Similar to the yellow Chinese hoods, but it came as part of a kit.

 

[thegoldengirls]

I had a nerve-wracking experience earlier. I purchased a cylinder of Nitrogen online 7 days ago in the US.
I thought all was well until I noticed the status was never changing to "ship". So, I decided to call the company and got a woman representative.
I was just expecting her to give me ship date so I could be reassured.
Yet, I was instantly bombarded with questions on what I needed it for and most importantly, if I didn't give her a company name, they wouldn't be able to ship because the nitrogen is for a business address.
I lied and told her it was for my father, and that he's a welder. That wasn't enough for her because she wanted a business so I told her I would call back with that information.
I immediately felt discouraged because I've been looking forward to eternal peace and I've been putting all my effort and energies into this method, only to find out I may not get the Nitrogen.

I'm an overthinker, and was nervous that If I called her back I would stumble over my words and screw this all up.
So, I finally called her back, and gave a random company name that has welding in it.
Then, she began questioning me on the residential shipping address because I originally put my address along with an apartment number.
So, I thought quickly and told her that the address she sees is the business address, and to just omit the apartment number.
And gave her an old address as my billing address.
Ultimately, she said it will ship out in 3 to 5 business days.
So, I know we concentrate on a story when purchasing Nitrogen, but it seems like in this case they really wanted a business name.
I guess every company is different .
What's strange is that they initially processed my credit card info, but they would gave never shipped if I didn't call.

 

[SpaceAlien]

Does anyone know where I could purchase pure N in the UK? I've spent hours searching on google but it seems only very small quantities are available or it can only be shipped to registered businesses. Please let me know if you know of any legit sites, I would really appreciate it.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Does anyone know where I could purchase pure N in the UK? I've spent hours searching on google but it seems only very small quantities are available or it can only be shipped to registered businesses. Please let me know if you know of any legit sites, I would really appreciate it.

It seems like it's hard to get in the UK alright. A few people from the UK have posted in the last few months about having difficulty getting Nitrogen. Did you try the sources mentioned in the PPH?



Someone from UK tried them recently, but they didn't deliver to their area. You might have better luck.

Maybe try to source argon or industrial-grade helium cylinders as an alternative, if you can't get Nitrogen.

One or two UK posters mentioned a few months back that they found a UK source that delivers. I don't know if they are still active on this site.

 

[SpaceAlien]

It seems like it's hard to get in the UK alright. A few people from the UK have posted in the last few months about having difficulty getting Nitrogen. Did you try the sources mentioned in the PPH?

View attachment 129400

Someone from UK tried them recently, but they didn't deliver to their area. You might have better luck.

Maybe try to source argon or industrial-grade helium cylinders as an alternative, if you can't get Nitrogen.

One or two UK posters mentioned a few months back that they found a UK source that delivers. I don't know if they are still active on this site.

Thank you, I'll check those out. Do you have a link to the latest PPH please? I've been having trouble finding a link to the more recent copies.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Thank you, I'll check those out. Do you have a link to the latest PPH please? I've been having trouble finding a link to the more recent copies.

I think the latest one available on this site is the 2022 version. It's somewhere in the Suicide Resource page I think.

You can download it from here:

The Peaceful Pill Handbook 2022 (Free PDF Download) : Philip Nitschke : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Peaceful Pill Handbook book series provides research and information on voluntary euthanasia and assisted dying for the elderly, those who are seriously...

archive.org

For 2023/24 PPH updates, you have to get them through Exit International:

The Peaceful Pill Handbook - The Peaceful Pill Handbook series provides information on euthanasia and assisted suicide for Seniors, the elderly and the seriously ill.

The Peaceful Pill Handbook series provides information on euthanasia and assisted suicide for Seniors, the elderly and the seriously ill.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

 

[k1w1]

I had a nerve-wracking experience earlier. I purchased a cylinder of Nitrogen online 7 days ago in the US.
I thought all was well until I noticed the status was never changing to "ship". So, I decided to call the company and got a woman representative.
I was just expecting her to give me ship date so I could be reassured.
Yet, I was instantly bombarded with questions on what I needed it for and most importantly, if I didn't give her a company name, they wouldn't be able to ship because the nitrogen is for a business address.
I lied and told her it was for my father, and that he's a welder. That wasn't enough for her because she wanted a business so I told her I would call back with that information.
I immediately felt discouraged because I've been looking forward to eternal peace and I've been putting all my effort and energies into this method, only to find out I may not get the Nitrogen.

I'm an overthinker, and was nervous that If I called her back I would stumble over my words and screw this all up.
So, I finally called her back, and gave a random company name that has welding in it.
Then, she began questioning me on the residential shipping address because I originally put my address along with an apartment number.
So, I thought quickly and told her that the address she sees is the business address, and to just omit the apartment number.
And gave her an old address as my billing address.
Ultimately, she said it will ship out in 3 to 5 business days.
So, I know we concentrate on a story when purchasing Nitrogen, but it seems like in this case they really wanted a business name.
I guess every company is different .
What's strange is that they initially processed my credit card info, but they would gave never shipped if I didn't call.

Well done, bullshit usually works with businesses, as the bottom line always comes first. I got the wierdest look when buying mine in person and rattling off nonsense about home-brew beer. I would say that once that execution went down in the US things could tighten up. The method has been round for 15 years, coroners event reports exist : but I can't shake the feeling that it would not hurt at all to buy a good size cylinder now.

Can I be brought on Amazon? The nitrogen tank is something like this sufficient

It can be purchased in person from a gas supplier in a town near you.

my understanding is: you have a hose coming in the mask (intended to supply air from a tank). the others are one-way valves to expel your breath out of the mask. As such, I don't think you'd want to cover those valves - If you did, you're not expelling anything from the mask.

thanks for the response. Two of them allow whatever is in the hood to enter the mask. The large one exits to the atmosphere. Im going to have to test the bloody thing. This job takes some fine tuning.

 

[SpaceAlien]

I think the latest one available on this site is the 2022 version. It's somewhere in the Suicide Resource page I think.

You can download it from here:

The Peaceful Pill Handbook 2022 (Free PDF Download) : Philip Nitschke : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Peaceful Pill Handbook book series provides research and information on voluntary euthanasia and assisted dying for the elderly, those who are seriously...

archive.org

For 2023/24 PPH updates, you have to get them through Exit International:

The Peaceful Pill Handbook - The Peaceful Pill Handbook series provides information on euthanasia and assisted suicide for Seniors, the elderly and the seriously ill.

The Peaceful Pill Handbook series provides information on euthanasia and assisted suicide for Seniors, the elderly and the seriously ill.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

Thank you!

 

[Kapsyl]

A thought that crossed my mind. Does a flow meter for example set at 15l/pm and regulator at maybe 3-4 bar. Will the pressure never exceed 3-4 bar? Will it stop the flow when the atmosphere which it is connected to is equal?

In my mind it should but I'm just checking, don't want to fail.

 

[Elzar]

Any ideas how I could check if the flow-meter works correctly?
At 15lpm, how long should it take to fill a 55x60 bag?

 

[thegoldengirls]

Well done, bullshit usually works with businesses, as the bottom line always comes first. I got the wierdest look when buying mine in person and rattling off nonsense about home-brew beer. I would say that once that execution went down in the US things could tighten up. The method has been round for 15 years, coroners event reports exist : but I can't shake the feeling that it would not hurt at all to buy a good size cylinder now.

It can be purchased in person from a gas supplier in a town near you.

thanks for the response. Two of them allow whatever is in the hood to enter the mask. The large one exits to the atmosphere. Im going to have to test the bloody thing. This job takes some fine tuning.

You're exactly right. People should really get their supply and stock up, and make up a business just in case they are asked. I actually kind of regret not getting two tanks, but when I think about it, I won't be here anymore to use the second tank anyway. Lol. Considering things work out in my favor.
I know the rep told me three days, but I will be on edge until I know it's been officialy shipped.
I feel like the interaction started off slightly awkward, but was smooth over when I mentioned gifting my imaginary father this cylinder for a project, for his business and insisted that it be shipped before his birthday next week. Lmao. I dunno. Maybe sounded silly in hindsight, but I imagine gruff welder type men who are into these type of things would actually be happy to be gifted tools and gases for projects. Just told her bs hoping to sound as lax and believable as possible.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

A thought that crossed my mind. Does a flow meter for example set at 15l/pm and regulator at maybe 3-4 bar. Will the pressure never exceed 3-4 bar? Will it stop the flow when the atmosphere which it is connected to is equal?

In my mind it should but I'm just checking, don't want to fail.

I don't know exactly how the flow rate and pressure interplay with eachother.
It's been a long time I looked it up, but it's quite complicated because of the physics laws themselves, and the other factors like the type of hose used (diameter, etc) and the way it's connected.
Someone actually posted a question about this on some forum, but he gave out too many wrong details. The thread got shady and the moderator there locked it up.

 

[Kapsyl]

I don't know exactly how the flow rate and pressure interplay with eachother.
It's been a long time I looked it up, but it's quite complicated because of the physics laws themselves, and the other factors like the type of hose used (diameter, etc) and the way it's connected.
Someone actually posted a question about this on some forum, but he gave out too many wrong details. The thread got shady and the moderator there locked it up.

On my setup the flow meter is connected after the regulator, the flow meter handles 50 psi maximum. So in my mind the flow meter would stop after the pressure is equal, whatever that would be 30, 40, 50 psi.

On the exit bag that would never happen since there is a ventilation hole, it just makes sense in my particular case.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Any ideas how I could check if the flow-meter works correctly?
At 15lpm, how long should it take to fill a 55x60 bag?

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.

On my setup the flow meter is connected after the regulator, the flow meter handles 50 psi maximum. So in my mind the flow meter would stop after the pressure is equal, whatever that would be 30, 40, 50 psi.

On the exit bag that would never happen since there is a ventilation hole, it just makes sense in my particular case.

Do you have a photo or screenshot of the regulator you're using?

 

[Kapsyl]

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.


Do you have a photo or screenshot of the regulator you're using?

The regulator is built in the tube itself, 0.5-50 bar. Another user have the exact setup I think, but I'm pretty sure he CTB since he said he would do it the same day he posted.

My flow meter


The similar setup

 

[Elzar]

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.

Yeah, I got this one now:


I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Yeah, I got this one now:
View attachment 129527

I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate. View attachment 129529

There are helium flowmeters available in U.S. and U.K.

One I came across has markings(standard cubic foot per hour(SCFH) for argon, helium, and CO2. The argon markings go from 5 at the bottom to 50 at the top. Helium goes from 20 at the bottom to 150 at the top.

So, even though the bottom markings may not be directly across from each other, the top helium marking (150) is 3 times the top argon marking(50).
So, like I said previously, 5lpm on argon flowmeter is probably 15lpm(3x argon) helium.

If you're worried, for peace of mind maybe you should get a helium one.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

The regulator is built in the tube itself, 0.5-50 bar. Another user have the exact setup I think, but I'm pretty sure he CTB since he said he would do it the same day he posted.

My flow meter
View attachment 129512

The similar setup

View attachment 129514

That cylinder has the pressure regulator built-in.
Does it only show the pressure?

Have you been able to connect the flowmeter?

What happens if you set the pressure to 1 bar? What does the flowmeter show?

Yeah, I got this one now:
View attachment 129527

I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate. View attachment 129529

I don't know of any way besides maybe connecting a standalone helium flowmeter to the regulator outlet.

 

[Elzar]

There are helium flowmeters available in U.S. and U.K.

One I came across has markings(standard cubic foot per hour(SCFH) for argon, helium, and CO2. The argon markings go from 5 at the bottom to 50 at the top. Helium goes from 20 at the bottom to 150 at the top.

So, even though the bottom markings may not be directly across from each other, the top helium marking (150) is 3 times the top argon marking(50).
So, like I said previously, 5lpm on argon flowmeter is probably 15lpm(3x argon) helium.

If you're worried, for peace of mind maybe you should get a helium one.

Thank you.
Those don't have the 21x8 connection I think.
But yeah, I'm relatively certain that x3 is about right.
Would be interesting to know If the conversion rate is completely linear.
That's something that could be a bit of a problem I guess.
Anyway, I just filled a 20 liter bag with a 5 lpm flowrate on the Argon scale (which, then, should be around 15 lpm for Helium) in about 50 seconds.
I don't know exactly what the liter measurement on a freezer bag refers to, of course - when you seal it by hand, you actually lose some surface area... Assuming that's the case and the effective filling volume is indeed slightly smaller as a result, then the 50 seconds might not be that far off?

Edit:
Nah, I think the filling volume refers to volume you can get into a bag and actually still seal it (at least that's what ChatGPT says).
So that would mean, that I filled 20 liters in 50 seconds time - which would be 24 lpm.
Maybe you're on to something here and at low lpm the conversion rate is closer to x4 (if my math above is correct,which it likely isn't, it would be close to x5).
Oh dear, the complications!^^

 

[Kapsyl]

I have a screenshot which mentions how fast it should fill up, not sure how accurate but maybe will help point you in right direction.

 

[Elzar]

I have a screenshot which mentions how fast it should fill up, not sure how accurate but maybe will help point you in right direction.

View attachment 129545

What balloon is this referring to?

Even the PPeH is confusing in that regard.
Both, the german and the english version speak of a 35x50 Exit Bag and 15 lpm of gas - but the german version says the bag should fill up in one minute, while the english one speaks of two.

I don't know of any way besides maybe connecting a standalone helium flowmeter to the regulator outlet

I haven't really found anything like that (for the german market at least) - even GD-shop told me to just use an Argon meter and convert. Didn't get into any details as to how...