Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[outrider567]

Could I PM with a question?

Yes

 

[*AzRaEl*]

Some thoughts on recent posts, but may only be relevant for the UK. I feel it's way easier to source N2 in the US.

Note, this is my intended method. I'm not suggesting anyone do any of this or giving anyone advice on how to ctb. It's just my plan for my own ctb.

I can only get small disposable tanks delivered online, so I'm getting four. I found most online delivery companies sell the small 2.2 litre tanks without asking any questions. 2.2 litres = 220 lites gas. Four tanks = 880 litres. One for testing, three for ctb. The downside: I'll need three regulators and those things cost. I'll also need three tubes. Feed all three into the bag then divide PSI for one tank at 15 lpm by three for a flow from each tank of 5 lpm. Combined the trio of tanks provide 15 lpm and a total 660 litres which is about 44 minutes of gas time. Conversion charts for lpm to PSI can be googled.

The tricky part (I assume as I'm still waiting on delivery of my tanks) will be turning on all three valves to the right flow rate in quick succession but those extra 4 minutes beyond the recommended 40 should suffice for this fiddly bit and 40 minutes is the 'safe' estimate. In reality I'll pass out in 10 to 15 seconds and be dead within ten to twenty minutes depending on how much oxygen contaminates proceedings.

I'm going to check specs on N2 purity carefully though! Here in the UK 99% pure N2 is only available as laboratory grade and restricted to business purchase only but certain air con suppliers provide small, purer tanks. They seem to be more stringent on who they sell to and why though.

This method is pricey but I think it solves a lot of the accessibility issues involved with procuring industrial size tanks and either transporting them or getting them shipped, at least here in the UK.

Note: the test tank is to double check flow rate inflates the bag in 60 seconds as I'm not confident using the regulators. If settings need tweaking I don't want to waste the 660 cbm N2.

I'm not testing purity with the spare canister. Inhaling N2 is extremely dangerous if not done correctly. I already failed once with too small a tank/wrong technique, revived before ten minutes and now have brain damage. I've learned the hard way not to get this method wrong. It is technically the trickiest peaceful option but also the gentlest and fastest. The hard part is setting it all up then overcoming SI. Believe me when I tell you, pulling the inflated bag down and starting to breath was almost impossible because I was in no doubt (at the time) it was going to kill me. Still not sure how I managed to beat the SI. I just blanked my mind when I pulled down the bag then, as I breathed, kept focusing on my reasons for leaving the world. It was brutally hard. Breathing deep or regularly was very hard as I was anxious and shallow breathing with quick shaky breaths.

Preparation approaching ctb: I tried twice at night. First time I watched my favourite show: Breaking Bad, last episode to calm my nerves then resolved to go after the last episode. Had a final vape, set everything up then started but couldn't bring myself to pull down the bag.

Second time, also at night, drank heavily and took diazepam. Managed to pull down bag and breathe but yanked bag off when I started to feel tingling in extremities and tunnel vision (after about 7 seconds).

Third time, woke up at 6am in state of despair as I do most days and was utterly resolved to do it. This time went all the way but previous two attempts had depleted gas and I didn't have enough left (had only one 2.2 litre tank, though airflow was too low also so it took a long time to finally pass out and those were long minutes. A lot of fear and shallow breathing, shaking, but I was determined and SI didn't stand a chance). I will do my next attempt the same way. Wait until I'm so desperate to ctb I do it with conviction.

If anyone is wondering how it feels, it doesn't. At least, I have no memory of the transition from awake to unconscious but then I do have brain damage. I slur my words, struggle to talk in coherent sentences and feel dizzy. Also have weird burst blood vessels in my fingertips and toes that look like varicose veins. I don't know what that is.

As far as I recall I was breathing shallow and quick, feeling very mild sense of suffocation (like you get if you wear just the bag without gas) then oblivion and reviving to find I the bag clinging to mouth and the panic/asphyxiation effect of breathing CO2. Couldn't remove the bag for a while as my hands were clawed. I had numb lips, headache, nausea, disorientation, dizziness and felt very cold. Didn't notice the slurring and cognitive effects until I tried to talk to someone much later.

I think, based on what others have said, my N2 was contaminated with CO2 hence the mild sense of anxiety and shallow breathing but it didn't nullify the hypoxia and it wasn't unbearable like if you try to just suffocate yourself.

So your attempt failed because you ran out of gas? How long were you unconscious for?

I had difficulty with the exit bag also, so I got the EEBD Hood instead

Can you share what difficulties you had with the bag? TIA

 

[k1w1]

hey guys
my attempt last week got thwarted because someone i care about figured out what i was doing and i got my supplies taken away. i'm just glad i managed to avoid another psych ward visit. now that i'm home after the holidays i'm planning on trying this week. i have new things coming in tuesday so i'll be ctb either tuesday or wednesday. what i'm worried about is that the person who figured out what i was doing ended up talking to me about the risks of this method. he said he researched and heard about people's lungs exploding because of this. does anyone know if that's true? i just really want a painless way out.

Theyre talking rubbish. if you have a regulatot and follow this method which has been documented ad tedium here, it will do what its supposed to do. Talking about ones plans is unwise. This is a very human response as for many, CTB feels like we are holding into a huge secret. There is a phrase in latin which translated means "to know, to dare, to keep silent" which has much salience in these ventures.

I thought you pass out immediately after like 2 breaths.

Nope......go back through the thread and look at the Swiss trials....anywhere up to a couple of minutes to unconciousness. Good trial actually.

15 Cases of helium suicides - Herman The Shocker

Helium is one of inert gases causing physical asphyxiation, whose excess content in the breathing atmosphere reduces the partial pressure of oxygen and may be fatal after short-term exposure.

www.hermantheshocker.com

And that is why balloon time had to change to an 80 percent helium/oxygen mix. Great site!!! Hopefully it puts to bed any doubts that this works.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I'd like to use inert gas, but I live with others so I'm not sure it's really viable. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I could conceal it?

 

[parasite_eve]

I'd like to use inert gas, but I live with others so I'm not sure it's really viable. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I could conceal it?

There's a user in here whom was able to paint their n2 tank and put a lamp shade on it so that even when their room was searched it was messed- then need to hide the rest of equip for your method like scba, eebd, or eb

 

[k1w1]

There's a user in here whom was able to paint their n2 tank and put a lamp shade on it so that even when their room was searched it was messed- then need to hide the rest of equip for your method like scba, eebd, or eb

LOLOL....send me that link. I like their style and must see this lamp.

I'd like to use inert gas, but I live with others so I'm not sure it's really viable. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I could conceal it?

A wardrobe?

 

[Daria98765]

Is my EEBD hood exhale valve broken or am I missing something ?

It was mentioned that there wouldn't be any carbon dioxide panic because all CO2 would be exiting through "exhale valve"

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I tried breathing without the tank, and air goes in and out through both exists( hose and exhale valve).
I don't understand how this is supposed to filter CO2. In my opinion, it will just accumulate because air barely comes out through the "ventilation" exit.

 

[theshund]

Is my EEBD hood exhale valve broken or am I missing something ?

It was mentioned that there wouldn't be any carbon dioxide panic because all CO2 would be exiting through "exhale valve"

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I tried breathing without the tank, and air goes in and out through both exists( hose and exhale valve).
I don't understand how this is supposed to filter CO2. In my opinion, it will just accumulate because air barely comes out through the "ventilation" exit.

Why would you need to filter CO2 if you're breathing inert gas?

 

[parasite_eve]

Is my EEBD hood exhale valve broken or am I missing something ?

It was mentioned that there wouldn't be any carbon dioxide panic because all CO2 would be exiting through "exhale valve"

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I tried breathing without the tank, and air goes in and out through both exists( hose and exhale valve).
I don't understand how this is supposed to filter CO2. In my opinion, it will just accumulate because air barely comes out through the "ventilation" exit.

Curious if others know for eebd - thought the hoods work similar to eb in that gas pressure flow will also push out c02 but the ventilation exit is supposed to dramatically improve c02 outflow?

Why would you need to filter CO2 if you're breathing inert gas?

I believe they are referring to how eebd hood benefit is the co2 outflow to make potentially easier for some vs eb

 

[thot88]

Is a 10-liter nitrogen bottle with 200 bars enough to get out?

 

[NegevChina]

Is a 10-liter nitrogen bottle with 200 bars enough to get out?

10 Liter is a very large tank. At 200 Bar it contains about 1800 Liter of Nitrogen, that's over 4 times the amount needed to CTB according to the PPH.
Don't completely trust my calculations though, I'm not a chemist.

 

[oono]

10 Liter is a very large tank. At 200 Bar it contains about 1800 Liter of Nitrogen, that's over 4 times the amount needed to CTB according to the PPH.
Don't completely trust my calculations though, I'm not a chemist.

my source is an 8 liter bottle at 150 bars, suppose it is ok for the scuba method

 

[NegevChina]

my source is an 8 liter bottle at 150 bars, suppose it is ok for the scuba method

That should be roughly 1100 liter. The PPH states you need 400 Liter for constant 15 Liter/Minute flow. I suppose scuba would needs even less than that. Just make sure to make your own calculations as I am not a chemist.

 

[oono]

That should be roughly 1100 liter. The PPH states you need 400 Liter for constant 15 Liter/Minute flow. I suppose scuba would needs even less than that. Just make sure to make your own calculations as I am not a chemist.

Ok thanks, anyway with the regulator the pressure will be reduced automatically. So 8l 150bars will be more than enough for the scuba method, I hope.

 

[parasite_eve]

Ok thanks, anyway with the regulator the pressure will be reduced automatically. So 8l 150bars will be more than enough for the scuba method, I hope.

Only asking as someone who was thinking SCBA but now not sure, what about concerns over not having air tight seal when face relaxes? Thought that was a risk with SCUBA, someone else reminded me it is also with SCBA (eg PPH advised against masks), but seen others here appear to do the SCBA/SCBUA methods...

 

[emptyh]

I use a CPAP machine at night and am wondering about options to use that, since I'm so used to it and have years of good feedback that the seal of the mask is good. It seems like it would work well, since it is forcing air into your lungs under pressure and the mask has built in venting for exhaling.

I was thinking about using a smallish, airtight plastic container to hold the CPAP machine. Then, turn on the cylinder and let the plastic box fill with inert gas for a minute or two before putting on the CPAP mask. I would also leave the cylinder open to ensure a steady supply continues. That would ensure that the CPAP is only pushing the inert gas through the mask. I would obviously need to make holes in the container for the CPAP power cord, CPAP tube, and tube from the cylinder to fill it with inert gas. Or, given that nitrogen is lighter than air, I should theoretically be able to position the CPAP so that it is near the top of the container. Then, the holes could be on the bottom and being airtight wouldn't be as big of an issue. Given that the seal between box and lid isn't guaranteed to be airtight, I could even place the plastic box upside down and have all the holes be through the lid, which is now the bottom.

What could cause this method to be ineffective?

Thanks!

 

[parasite_eve]

I use a CPAP machine at night and am wondering about options to use that, since I'm so used to it and have years of good feedback that the seal of the mask is good. It seems like it would work well, since it is forcing air into your lungs under pressure and the mask has built in venting for exhaling.

I was thinking about using a smallish, airtight plastic container to hold the CPAP machine. Then, turn on the cylinder and let the plastic box fill with inert gas for a minute or two before putting on the CPAP mask. I would also leave the cylinder open to ensure a steady supply continues. That would ensure that the CPAP is only pushing the inert gas through the mask. I would obviously need to make holes in the container for the CPAP power cord, CPAP tube, and tube from the cylinder to fill it with inert gas. Or, given that nitrogen is lighter than air, I should theoretically be able to position the CPAP so that it is near the top of the container. Then, the holes could be on the bottom and being airtight wouldn't be as big of an issue. Given that the seal between box and lid isn't guaranteed to be airtight, I could even place the plastic box upside down and have all the holes be through the lid, which is now the bottom.

What could cause this method to be ineffective?

Thanks!

Earlier in this thread (you should have search ability soon with more posts - off topic games can help) peeps reported CPAP and rebreather devices as not successful

It's exit bag (eb), emergency escape breathing device (eebd) hood, or scba/scuba but PPH only recommends eb & eebd hood

 

[emptyh]

Earlier in this thread (you should have search ability soon with more posts - off topic games can help) peeps reported CPAP and rebreather devices as not successful

It's exit bag (eb), emergency escape breathing device (eebd) hood, or scba/scuba but PPH only recommends eb & eebd hood

Thanks for the tip about how to get search functionality. I read quite a bit of this thread, but it's too long to read everything.

 

[justwannadip]

What do you guys think is more effective? Eebd hood or regular exit bag?

 

[outrider567]

Hoo

What do you guys think is more effective? Eebd hood or regular exit bag?

Hood for sure

 

[oono]

Only asking as someone who was thinking SCBA but now not sure, what about concerns over not having air tight seal when face relaxes? Thought that was a risk with SCUBA, someone else reminded me it is also with SCBA (eg PPH advised against masks), but seen others here appear to do the SCBA/SCBUA methods...

The scuba method is with a full face diving mask. I find this method so much simpler and safer than with a bag.. But this is a personal criticism.

If you want more information, there is the guide and megathread of the user "befree" on the scuba method. It is well explained.

 

[parasite_eve]

The scuba method is with a full face diving mask. I find this method so much simpler and safer than with a bag.. But this is a personal criticism.

If you want more information, there is the guide and megathread of the user "befree" on the scuba method. It is well explained.

totally relate - I'm thinking scba is a bit easier even (1 fewer adapter piece) per GasMonkey Setup thread and the positive pressure seems to mitigate risk of mask setup warned by PPH (but scuba may be easier to source and less costly)

however not at expert - just spent too much time going thru all the diff threads T_T

 

[NitrogenAfternoon]

My first post, please excuse me if this is not the way to ask, but this is the method that has always spoke to me, and my preferred one. What would happen if there was no exit bag, just my 20L dewar with the N2 and my car. If i just simply opened the lock cover and removed the neck plug of the 20L dewar while in my car, would this end up doing anything at all?

 

[emptyh]

Earlier in this thread (you should have search ability soon with more posts - off topic games can help) peeps reported CPAP and rebreather devices as not successful

It's exit bag (eb), emergency escape breathing device (eebd) hood, or scba/scuba but PPH only recommends eb & eebd hood

After doing some more reading, I think I figured out the issues with what I described.

First, even assuming that the mask doesn't let anything in that isn't supplied by the CPAP, a lot of air being sent by the CPAP will leak through the exhale vent holes. This would require a lot more inert gas at a much higher rate, meaning you'd need a much bigger tank.

Second, you need to be concerned about the rate at which the CPAP sends air out of the container and match that rate coming in from the tank. If you aren't supplying enough inert gas, air from outside the container would be sucked into the container through any holes that aren't airtight. Or if the holes are all airtight, it would affect the ability of the CPAP to continue pushing air because you'd essentially be trying to create a vacuum within the container.

 

[parasite_eve]

After doing some more reading, I think I figured out the issues with what I described.

First, even assuming that the mask doesn't let anything in that isn't supplied by the CPAP, a lot of air being sent by the CPAP will leak through the exhale vent holes. This would require a lot more inert gas at a much higher rate, meaning you'd need a much bigger tank.

Second, you need to be concerned about the rate at which the CPAP sends air out of the container and match that rate coming in from the tank. If you aren't supplying enough inert gas, air from outside the container would be sucked into the container through any holes that aren't airtight. Or if the holes are all airtight, it would affect the ability of the CPAP to continue pushing air because you'd essentially be trying to create a vacuum within the container.

You might also find this thread interesting where someone is working on alternative mask setup
Thread '3M mask as exit bag' https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/3m-mask-as-exit-bag.192815/

 

[Loaf of bread]

The air we breathe is 70 something % nitrogen. Is it possible to do any chemistry to remove the 21% oxygen and use that as the nitrogen cylinder?

Probably a silly question but doesnt hurt to ask, eh?

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

The air we breathe is 70 something % nitrogen. Is it possible to do any chemistry to remove the 21% oxygen and use that as the nitrogen cylinder?

Probably a silly question but doesnt hurt to ask, eh?

Sure, you can purchase a nitrogen generator but they aren't cheap, they start at around $2,000.

Alternatively you can buy a rebreather that removes the CO2 from the air as you keep breathing the same air over and over again, leaving nitrogen. Someone was selling a rebreather here a while ago, but it didn't work well and they eventually disappeared.

 

[Fire&Ash]

Has no one put a video up from beginning of setting up the tank and regulators and also making the bags and connecting it? Also I don't understand removing the oxygen before releasing the nitrogen. If you remove the oxygen won't you suffocate? Am I misunderstanding that?

 

[Loaf of bread]

Also I don't understand removing the oxygen before releasing the nitrogen. If you remove the oxygen won't you suffocate? Am I misunderstanding that?

The pain response occurs from CO2, not from lack of oxygen. There should be no pain unless there is CO2, which is produced from respiring oxygen. Thats how inert gas works, an atmosphere without CO2 or oxygen.

Has no one put a video up from beginning of setting up the tank and regulators and also making the bags and connecting it?

Can anyone find the archive of the doing with chi video? If one still exists? Or whatever the video was called

 

[Fire&Ash]

The pain response occurs from CO2, not from lack of oxygen. There should be no pain unless there is CO2, which is produced from respiring oxygen. Thats how inert gas works, an atmosphere without CO2 or oxygen.

Can anyone find the archive of the doing with chi video? If one still exists? Or whatever the video was called

What archive? Where do I find it?