Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Loaf of bread]

There was an old inert gas setup video, called "doing it with chi" or "doing it with betty" (I forgot). It was taken down at some point, I am not sure if any archives exist. If there are, please share

 

[parasite_eve]

There was an old inert gas setup video, called "doing it with chi" or "doing it with betty" (I forgot). It was taken down at some point, I am not sure if any archives exist. If there are, please share

Inert Gas Cylinder & Regulator, General Refresher Summary:

I've stopped posting on this forum for various reasons--including some personal moral and ethical concerns, and the frustration with so many posters who refuse to do the most basic level of research into methods, even so far as bothering to read the relevant mega-threads on this site from the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Inert Gas Setup 101

I got a lot of help and info from people on this site about inert gas setups. I just wanted to put together, in the simplest way, all what I've found to be very helpful to me, in the one thread. This following list of info relates to setups involving inert gas ( nitrogen/argon/helium), and...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Found these helpful with p1 on this for basics on this method, wishing us all peace <3

 

[Fire&Ash]

Can someone answer this? From my understanding, if I got a big plastic bag, those large turkey ones, and tapes the plastic tubing to the inside, is that the proper way? Also, trying to push oxygen out before putting bag on doesn't make sense to me? If I put the bag on my forehead, wait for the nitrogen to fill the bag up, and then pull down the bag on my head, is the oxygen gone and I did the method right? This is how I'm visualizing it but I don't this is right? I'm just stumped on removing the oxygen and then adding the nitrogen because I think if I just put the bag on and add nitrogen, I would start freaking out from the mix of both right?

 

[parasite_eve]

Can someone answer this? From my understanding, if I got a big plastic bag, those large turkey ones, and tapes the plastic tubing to the inside, is that the proper way? Also, trying to push oxygen out before putting bag on doesn't make sense to me? If I put the bag on my forehead, wait for the nitrogen to fill the bag up, and then pull down the bag on my head, is the oxygen gone and I did the method right? This is how I'm visualizing it but I don't this is right? I'm just stumped on removing the oxygen and then adding the nitrogen because I think if I just put the bag on and add nitrogen, I would start freaking out from the mix of both right?

The idea behind it is to create an oxygen free environment using the pressure from inflowing inert gas.

By using an elastic cord snug (but not sealed) and smushing out the air first, one can see the nitrogen filling up the bag and know it's ready to be pulled down; there may still be traces of o2 from pulling down over face to neck, but should be forced about quickly by the gas with any co2 exhaled until gas runs out.

I think this person spells it out clearly:

Inert Gas Cylinder & Regulator, General Refresher Summary:

I've stopped posting on this forum for various reasons--including some personal moral and ethical concerns, and the frustration with so many posters who refuse to do the most basic level of research into methods, even so far as bothering to read the relevant mega-threads on this site from the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Fire&Ash]

Hello everyone. I am having the worst time trying to find a regulator and flow meter. I know I can use argon/co regulator but it usually comes with 2 gauges. Which I'm not sure if I want that? And I can't find a proper flow meter. I have not found one flow meter that uses lpm on Amazon. I also don't know how I would combine these two things together to the cylinder. My original plan was to get a combined one but the units were not right. Help? Where did you get yours? Will you chat/conversation it with me?

 

[parasite_eve]

On regulators/ flow meters:

1. There should be two guages on a 2-in-1 regulator/ flowmeter: one showing pressure (how much you have left in the tank) and one showing flow rate (what we need to set to 15-19 LPM per PPH).

2. Many come with CFH instead of LPM but this can be converted using algebra or finding online converter site (DO NOT use GenAI).

3. I found options by searching (argon click style regulator) because I like how these can just be set easily to a certain flow rate 0-60 CFH for argon (0 to ~34 LPM for nitrogen). But also check out this for alt style and details on how to do the calculations:

Just finished putting together a nitrogen exit bag setup

I just thought I'd share a description of the gear I put together for inert gas asphyxiation with nitrogen and an exit bag. It's pretty basic since I felt it would be better to start with something simple and functional, then upgrade to SCBA/SCUBA or something else in the future if I have time...

sanctioned-suicide.net

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-inert-gas-materials-canada.194144/

 

[Fire&Ash]

On regulators/ flow meters:

1. There should be two guages on a 2-in-1 regulator/ flowmeter: one showing pressure (how much you have left in the tank) and one showing flow rate (what we need to set to 15-19 LPM per PPH).

2. Many come with CFH instead of LPM but this can be converted using algebra or finding online converter site (DO NOT use GenAI).

3. I found options by searching (argon click style regulator) because I like how these can just be set easily to a certain flow rate 0-60 CFH for argon (0 to ~34 LPM for nitrogen). But also check out this for alt style and details on how to do the calculations:

Just finished putting together a nitrogen exit bag setup

I just thought I'd share a description of the gear I put together for inert gas asphyxiation with nitrogen and an exit bag. It's pretty basic since I felt it would be better to start with something simple and functional, then upgrade to SCBA/SCUBA or something else in the future if I have time...

sanctioned-suicide.net

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-inert-gas-materials-canada.194144/

Ya I've been looking for one through Amazon and Airgas. Idk. I just see regulators with 2 pressure gauges (low-high) but no flow meter. I did find one with one pressure gauge with a glass tube flow meter but the flow meter is not right.

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

Ya I've been looking for one through Amazon and Airgas. Idk. I just see regulators with 2 pressure gauges (low-high) but no flow meter. I did find one with one pressure gauge with a glass tube flow meter but the flow meter is not right.

Are you in the US? Regulators vary a bit in different parts of the world due to different units and standards for fittings.

When I search Amazon for argon regulators in the US I'm getting around 10 suitable results ranging from $20 to $150 in price. Thet all look similar to this:

Alternatively you could get a 2-gauge pressure regulator along with a separate nitrogen flow meter. You would have to connect the regulators together and set the pressure regulator to produce the output pressure needed by the flow regulator (50 psi I believe). The advantage is you could get a nitrogen flow meter instead of argon and eliminate the need for unit conversions.

 

[iwantpeacenopain]

Greetings to all. I've been researching the inert gas method extensively for a while and, on balance, it's my preferred method to CTB, as other options like firearms and even SN are very difficult to source in the UK. I've read some comments about suitable inert gases being difficult to source as a private customer and that's also true. That said, I have managed to obtain a 1300L cylinder of 99.998% argon. I'm working on getting a nitrogen cylinder, also. If I'm successful in obtaining nitrogen, I'll run my tests and try to CTB with that. If not, I'll go with the argon. My preference for nitrogen is based on:
a) it seems to be a "preferred" choice, now high purity helium is difficult to source
b) lower weight than argon.

I have a few questions that the knowledgeable among us may be able to answer:

1) With regards to the higher weight of argon versus nitrogen and the theory that argon will more readily flush out of an exit bag to be replaced by external air, do you think a higher flow rate and higher positive pressure (20 or 25L per minute?) will adequately compensate for any difference in gas weight? (Obviously, I'll need to factor in that the gas won't last as long but will still be in excess of 50 minutes).

2) Some people on this thread have questioned if their nitrogen is mixed with O2 and have recommended testing gas for O2. Given the normal uses of nitrogen, isn't CO2 a more likely additive/ deliberate contaminant? Could this account for some of the failures documented in this thread, where SI has kicked in (because of high CO2 levels)? Presumably, CO2 can also be tested for? (I still fully support testing your gas for O2, after all why would you leave anything to chance?)

3) how significant is the Supply Pressure Effect (where output pressure from the regulator increases as the cylinder pressure drops) when using a single-stage regulator? I appreciate that it will depend on variables such as the regulator, cylinder pressure and flow rate, but is this something that will significantly reduce total gas flow time, or should I not worry about this?

4) I'm particularly interested to hear any experiences people have using / testing both nitrogen and argon and any differences noted

1) Louder than you expect but then you do have your head in a bag
2) I recommend going to the start of this thread and reading about the Swiss bus-catchers whose efforts were timed and recorded. I could tell you but it's better for you to read it yourself and make up your own mind.
3) No, it's a separate purchase
4) Yes. Strongly recommend watching "doing it with Betty" and reading the PPH for this.
5) In theory, sure you can but I think the volume of the bag is too much. Also, that's a non-transparent bag and claustrophobia is a thing.
6) I can't read the measurement units but it looks like it's LPM on an argon / CO2 regulator. But always best to confirm with the retailer or manufacturer

Were you able to source a Nitrogen cylinder + regulator + cylinder?

 

[devils~advocate]

Exit Hood Method (using manufactured hood)

https://www.allegrosafety.com/product/tyvek-supplied-air-respirator-hood/

These items are readily available on Amazon & Ebay

 

[zardofan]

View attachment 159039
Exit Hood Method (using manufactured hood)

https://www.allegrosafety.com/product/tyvek-supplied-air-respirator-hood/

These items are readily available on Amazon & Ebay

I just put this hood in my cart and then balked realizing I didn't know how to connect it to the tubing. The PPEH doesn't show it, the video just shows it all connected and then shows the O2 going down and down. So THANK YOU for this diagram! I may end up going turkey bag/elastic/toggle clip anyway but at least I know what to do if I go this route. So grateful!

 

[zardofan]

Oh my goodness I just hung up with a vendor, picking up the N2 cylinder today! It's much larger than needed but they don't have 20 or 40 in stock so 60 it is! I feel so relieved. Next step regulator!

 

[human909]

It shouldn't be that complicated right?

 

[zardofan]

Right, it's just ticking things off the list. Really glad I switched to this instead of continuing to try to get meto and benzos. I got the SN easily but was stymied with the others. Plus for me this feels more peaceful.

 

[erski]

I am looking into leveraging on SCUBA setup with OceanReef full face diving mask - but based on the below comment I have some questions:

Yes, it can be multiple reasons. Different pressures or it wasn't full at the start. It's really annoying that this information is missing.

Yes, I guess so too. Maybe I will exchange it for a full one when my moment is there.
I think I learned a few things which I will do when I decide to ctb:

• Don't rush, take as much time as needed
• Do a pressure test and use a leak detector spray
• Put the mask on with the SAV (opening to the outside) open and wait until I'm relaxed and can breath normal (if not abort)
• Close the SAV and first exhale deeply as suggested in the dignitas study. I guess this will remove all the oxygen and carbondioxide which is still in the lungs.
• And breath pure nitrogen in, so this should have a faster effect then during my blackout test.

1) Does anyone has more less steps required for proper pressure test of the regulator and mask ?
2) Does anyone know how in this outline process the "pre-dive" configuration should be set ?

 

[martinso67]

I am searching for hours now for the 3M Scott ELSA hood.
Found only one seller that is though not active at the moment and will return back to operation mid 2025.

I think the reason seems to be, a warning and product recall of the 3M Scott due to a seam defect. This problem is in some batches of the product and causes a leakage in the hood. So I am not sure, if I buy the product and will get delivered the product from the affected production batch. It also makes me question the quality in general of the company 3M.

If I am already paying a 3 digits amount, then should I not get a really high quality and good product. Espcially for this endeavourthat cannot allow any failure.





Link to the product recall warning by 3M:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/2431239O/3m-psd-scba-elsa-notification-july-2024.pdf

 

[Kbeau]

I am searching for hours now for the 3M Scott ELSA hood.
Found only one seller that is though not active at the moment and will return back to operation mid 2025.

I think the reason seems to be, a warning and product recall of the 3M Scott due to a seam defect. This problem is in some batches of the product and causes a leakage in the hood. So I am not sure, if I buy the product and will get delivered the product from the affected production batch. It also makes me question the quality in general of the company 3M.

If I am already paying a 3 digits amount, then should I not get a really high quality and good product. Espcially for this endeavourthat cannot allow any failure.

View attachment 160706

View attachment 160707

Link to the product recall warning by 3M:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/2431239O/3m-psd-scba-elsa-notification-july-2024.pdf

Other good hoods you'd recommend or is that not an area of expertise?

 

[Athina_99]

View attachment 3848

The Final Exit book I have says construct Exit bag with large turkey bag and sweatband. I am having a hard time understanding how to attach the 6 inch sweatband properly to a 20" wide bag opening? When you roll it it bunches up. If anyone sees this can you let me know?

 

[restlesseyes]

Yes, you need to use elastic: the seal around your neck must be flexible to allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2.

If you don't allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2, the CO2 will trigger your hypercapnic alarm, your body will react beyond your conscious control and you will pull away the bag, and your attempt will fail.

You have been super useful to this community I hope if your still around of course not to sound selfish but if you ever get those thoughts like what am I here for , you can think of the hundreds of people you helped here :) i have another question for you if you wouldn't mind answering in the book the final exit they have alt method for exit bag they say you can just use a head band for the seal instead of making elastic draw string am I confusing this with the old way with out inert gases since the CO2 build up in that case would not matter or will something like a head band be able to release the C02
I was wondering if something like this could work instead of exit bag

 

[devils~advocate]

Exit Hood / Mask Combination

Here is a diagram of a hood / mask system combination.

Hood - either homemade or manufactured
Mask - this can be a non-rebreather type with the reservoir bag
Hose - vinyl type usually comes with the mask
Regulator - will need one that has cga-580 connection, since USA inert gas cylinders use this. Also will need one that has a barb end connection.

The only issue I can think of is the construction of the hood...which is highly variable. There are videos that go thru the steps to make one.

Then there is the hose from the mask...it is variable as well. One needs to coordinate with the barb connection of the regulator so the hose fits over it.
There are transition connectors that allow different size tubing to connect to one another. There are barb adapters.....push-in adapters...etc
Then use a hose clamp to tightly connect them together. Home centers & Amaz have all these items...hoses, connections, adapters, clamps, etc.

 

[restlesseyes]

Exit Hood / Mask Combination

Here is a diagram of a hood / mask system combination.

Hood - either homemade or manufactured
Mask - this can be a non-rebreather type with the reservoir bag
Hose - vinyl type usually comes with the mask
Regulator - will need one that has cga-580 connection, since USA inert gas cylinders use this. Also will need one that has a barb end connection.

The only issue I can think of is the construction of the hood...which is highly variable. There are videos that go thru the steps to make one.

Then there is the hose from the mask...it is variable as well. One needs to coordinate with the barb connection of the regulator so the hose fits over it.
There are transition connectors that allow different size tubing to connect to one another. There are barb adapters.....push-in adapters...etc
Then use a hose clamp to tightly connect them together. Home centers & Amaz have all these items...hoses, connections, adapters, clamps, etc.

Thank you for the information after a little more research I decided to go with EEBD since I was able to find one from the source A with a non expensive price seems like the only hard part is just making sure all the hoses fit properly so there are no leaks