Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[PlannedforPeru]

he said he researched and heard about people's lungs exploding because of this. does anyone know if that's true? i just really want a painless way out.

I think I know of the case he may have been talking about and I believe they did not use a regulator so they experienced the full brunt of the unregulated gas expulsion (assuming the blood was from the lungs popping).

 

[justwannadip]

See ShatteredSerenity's thread 'Just Finished Exit Bag with Nitrogen'

Thanks for your reply. I've seen that post and have talked to him directly. I'm just trying to get as many opinions as possible ig, since I've seen some accounts say they failed with this method when they seemed to do everything right

 

[outrider567]

Thanks for your reply. I've seen that post and have talked to him directly. I'm just trying to get as many opinions as possible ig, since I've seen some accounts say they failed with this method when they seemed to do everything right

I had difficulty with the exit bag also, so I got the EEBD Hood instead

 

[justwannadip]

I had difficulty with the exit bag also, so I got the EEBD Hood instead

@PlannedforPeru failed with their eebd hood and they don't really know why. Id be open to using an eebd hood if its more reliable.

 

[outrider567]

@PlannedforPeru failed with their eebd hood and they don't really know why. Id be open to using an eebd hood if its more reliable.

There's nothing more reliable than an EEBD Hood, there has never been a failure with EEBD Hood, Peru failed because he didn't test it or test it on himself using an oximeter, or had improper connections--I've tested the Hood on myself 5 times, last time after just 5 breaths, I saw my Oxygen Level plunge to 40!, (after taking off the Hood at 77, delayed reaction to the fingertips), so obviously its incredibly lethal, you pass out at 25, then its oblivion

 

[justwannadip]

There's nothing more reliable than an EEBD Hood, there has never been a failure with EEBD Hood, Peru failed because he didn't test it or test it on himself using an oximeter, or had improper connections--I've tested the Hood on myself 5 times, last time after just 5 breaths, I saw my Oxygen Level plunge to 40!, (after taking off the Hood at 77, delayed reaction to the fingertips), so obviously its incredibly lethal, you pass out at 25, then its oblivion

Well he still failed with the eebd hood, regardless of the reason. It's also not clear what that reason was, which is concerning, and it seems this method has many possible points of error. So I'd like to be able to test for everything but its pretty complex for me and I'm not sure how yet.

This is the flow regulator I'm thinking of buying. I asked shatteredserenity and they think it looks fine but I'm wondering what you think about it: https://a.co/d/7Rz8mYU

I'm also getting my cylinder from LindeCanada since I'm in Canada. There's a lot of options for nitrogen cylinders and they all seem to have high purity so I'm very confused at which one to get. I also don't understand the sizes—I don't see 40cuft anywhere. This is the site: https://www.lindecanada.ca/shop/en/ca/gases-dry-ice/nitrogen-en

 

[justwannadip]

Does anyone have a link to a video where they go step by step in how to construct the exit bag using the turkey oven bag? It seems all videos like that have been taken down from youtube and I can't find a good one elsewhere.

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

I need some help with my regulator, I bought a cheap one, ended up testing it - and it started to leak.

I live in Canada so I need a regulator available in Canada.

I'm wondering what regulators you guys suggest that you know won't leak?

 

[John8]

I got couple of questions
1. How loud is it?, i read that it depends on the regulator
2. How much time do you need before you are fully gone?, not just unconscious
3. Do you get the hose with the regulator purchase?
4.Do you insert the hose from under the drawcord?
5. Can you use something like this to make exit bag imgur
6.Does the right meter on this regulator here show liter per min, so i don't need a flowmeter? imgur

 

[*AzRaEl*]

Greetings to all. I've been researching the inert gas method extensively for a while and, on balance, it's my preferred method to CTB, as other options like firearms and even SN are very difficult to source in the UK. I've read some comments about suitable inert gases being difficult to source as a private customer and that's also true. That said, I have managed to obtain a 1300L cylinder of 99.998% argon. I'm working on getting a nitrogen cylinder, also. If I'm successful in obtaining nitrogen, I'll run my tests and try to CTB with that. If not, I'll go with the argon. My preference for nitrogen is based on:
a) it seems to be a "preferred" choice, now high purity helium is difficult to source
b) lower weight than argon.

I have a few questions that the knowledgeable among us may be able to answer:

1) With regards to the higher weight of argon versus nitrogen and the theory that argon will more readily flush out of an exit bag to be replaced by external air, do you think a higher flow rate and higher positive pressure (20 or 25L per minute?) will adequately compensate for any difference in gas weight? (Obviously, I'll need to factor in that the gas won't last as long but will still be in excess of 50 minutes).

2) Some people on this thread have questioned if their nitrogen is mixed with O2 and have recommended testing gas for O2. Given the normal uses of nitrogen, isn't CO2 a more likely additive/ deliberate contaminant? Could this account for some of the failures documented in this thread, where SI has kicked in (because of high CO2 levels)? Presumably, CO2 can also be tested for? (I still fully support testing your gas for O2, after all why would you leave anything to chance?)

3) how significant is the Supply Pressure Effect (where output pressure from the regulator increases as the cylinder pressure drops) when using a single-stage regulator? I appreciate that it will depend on variables such as the regulator, cylinder pressure and flow rate, but is this something that will significantly reduce total gas flow time, or should I not worry about this?

4) I'm particularly interested to hear any experiences people have using / testing both nitrogen and argon and any differences noted

I got couple of questions
1. How loud is it?, i read that it depends on the regulator
2. How much time do you need before you are fully gone?, not just unconscious
3. Do you get the hose with the regulator purchase?
4.Do you insert the hose from under the drawcord?
5. Can you use something like this to make exit bag imgur
6.Does the right meter on this regulator here show liter per min, so i don't need a flowmeter? imgur

1) Louder than you expect but then you do have your head in a bag
2) I recommend going to the start of this thread and reading about the Swiss bus-catchers whose efforts were timed and recorded. I could tell you but it's better for you to read it yourself and make up your own mind.
3) No, it's a separate purchase
4) Yes. Strongly recommend watching "doing it with Betty" and reading the PPH for this.
5) In theory, sure you can but I think the volume of the bag is too much. Also, that's a non-transparent bag and claustrophobia is a thing.
6) I can't read the measurement units but it looks like it's LPM on an argon / CO2 regulator. But always best to confirm with the retailer or manufacturer

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

How could I test my nitrogen's purity without an oxygen meter (I can't afford one)? Could I breathe it through the bag and see how long it takes for me to feel like I'm losing consciousness?

 

[*AzRaEl*]

How could I test my nitrogen's purity without an oxygen meter (I can't afford one)? Could I breathe it through the bag and see how long it takes for me to feel like I'm losing consciousness?

Gas purity is not just about oxygen, you also need to consider carbon dioxide, which is sometimes added to nitrogen gas. Your proposed test carries the risk of CTB accidentally. Others on this thread have used a pulse oximeter, which can be purchased cheaply

 

[outrider567]

How could I test my nitrogen's purity without an oxygen meter (I can't afford one)? Could I breathe it through the bag and see how long it takes for me to feel like I'm losing consciousness?

A pulse oximeter is just 30 bucks

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

Gas purity is not just about oxygen, you also need to consider carbon dioxide, which is sometimes added to nitrogen gas. Your proposed test carries the risk of CTB accidentally. Others on this thread have used a pulse oximeter, which can be purchased cheaply

Okay thank you for letting me know, I appreciate it.

 

[Intoxicated]

Gas purity is not just about oxygen, you also need to consider carbon dioxide, which is sometimes added to nitrogen gas.

It's very unlikely that someone would add CO2 to N2 on purpose for selling the mixture as nitrogen. It's also very unlikely that the percent of CO2 would somehow exceed the percent of O2 among the impurities, considering how nitrogen is typically obtained and how CO2, O2, and N2 physically differ from each other.

Your proposed test carries the risk of CTB accidentally.

That risk should be minimal if you resume breathing with fresh air shortly after the onset of the hypoxia-induced symptoms which are well-perceivable. It also makes sense to inhale the gas through the mouth from a latex balloon, so you can control how much gas was consumed. Making a single maximal inhale of a high-purity inert gas after a maximal exhale and further breath holding for at least 25 - 30 seconds can be enough for producing unconsciousness or near-unconsciousness in 35 - 45 seconds.

 

[*AzRaEl*]

It's very unlikely that someone would add CO2 to N2 on purpose for selling the mixture as nitrogen. It's also very unlikely that the percent of CO2 would somehow exceed the percent of O2 among the impurities, considering how nitrogen is typically obtained and how CO2, O2, and N2 physically differ from each other.

That risk should be minimal if you resume breathing with fresh air shortly after the onset of the hypoxia-induced symptoms which are well-perceivable. It also makes sense to inhale the gas through the mouth from a latex balloon, so you can control how much gas was consumed. Making a single maximal inhale of a high-purity inert gas after a maximal exhale and further breath holding for at least 25 - 30 seconds can be enough for producing unconsciousness or near-unconsciousness in 35 - 45 seconds.

In the UK, one of the market-leading gas suppliers sells industrial grade N2 of 95%, with the other 5% being CO2. It's important that people check the data sheets for what they propose to use. Agree with you that risk of accidental CTB is low but it's not zero. Good tip re: latex balloons

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

In the UK, one of the market-leading gas suppliers sells industrial grade N2 of 95%, with the other 5% being CO2. It's important that people check the data sheets for what they propose to use. Agree with you that risk of accidental CTB is low but it's not zero. Good tip re: latex balloons

How would I use the oximeter to test the nitrogen's purity? I know I would wear it and put the bag over my head, but if the oxygen drops to 0% on my oximeter then I'll pass out without removing the bag. Even if my oxygen quickly declines, and I take the bag off, that won't tell me if it's 0% oxygen.

 

[Intoxicated]

In the UK, one of the market-leading gas suppliers sells industrial grade N2 of 95%, with the other 5% being CO2.

Is it sold as just "nitrogen" or nitrogen/carbon dioxide mixture? All N2/CO2 mixtures I've seen on the market were titled as such, so high amounts of CO2 could be presumed without looking into data sheets. I'm not from UK though.

It's important that people check the data sheets for what they propose to use.

95% purity should be a red flag anyway. As long as you buy at least 98% pure nitrogen, even 2% CO2 won't cause any serious discomfort if you hyperventilate before inhalation of the N2/CO2 gas mixture (thus making abnormally low CO2 level in your blood) and pass out in 1 minute when breathing with N2/CO2. In experiments, people were exposed to 20'000 ppm of CO2 for hours without developing severe symptoms.

 

[*AzRaEl*]

How would I use the oximeter to test the nitrogen's purity? I know I would wear it and put the bag over my head, but if the oxygen drops to 0% on my oximeter then I'll pass out without removing the bag. Even if my oxygen quickly declines, and I take the bag off, that won't tell me if it's 0% oxygen.

A pulse oximeter will allow you to monitor your blood O2 saturation if you decide to test the gas and permits you to abort the test before you become unconscious. It won't directly tell you if there's O2 in your gas supply but it provides data about how quickly your O2 saturation drops when breathing inert gas inside your bag or hood and allows some insight regarding if you're likely to become unconscious if you continue to breathe that atmosphere. All data from tests is valuable when trying to CTB. However be aware if testing that you will be unconscious long before your %SpO2 reaches anywhere near zero; some people will pass out in the range 60-80%, for others it will be lower; there are multiple factors that determine each individual's time to unconsciousness in identical environments, so I can't tell you that you could definitely abort a test safely at 60% SpO2. Most people will suffer circulatory failure if %SpO2 remains below 40 for more than a couple of minutes. There is risk attached to all of this, even "tests".

Is it sold as just "nitrogen" or nitrogen/carbon dioxide mixture? All N2/CO2 mixtures I've seen on the market were titled as such, so high amounts of CO2 could be presumed without looking into data sheets. I'm not from UK though.

95% purity should be a red flag anyway. As long as you buy at least 98% pure nitrogen, even 2% CO2 won't cause any serious discomfort if you hyperventilate before inhalation of the N2/CO2 gas mixture (thus making abnormally low CO2 level in your blood) and pass out in 1 minute when breathing with N2/CO2. In experiments, people were exposed to 20'000 ppm of CO2 for hours without developing severe symptoms.

Both N2 and Ar are being sold here mixed with other gases. In many cases it states clearly that it's a mix, but in some you have to check the data sheets to confirm the composition. Agree that 95% is a red flag. 5% CO2 would be uncomfortable to breathe. But reading through the comments on this thread demonstrates that some people will attempt to CTB with whatever they can get. I take the approach that more knowledge = higher chance of success

 

[Intoxicated]

A pulse oximeter will allow you to monitor your blood O2 saturation if you decide to test the gas and permits you to abort the test before you become unconscious.

I have an impression that loss of consciousness from gas asphyxiation never occurs immediately. There is always some period of drifting into unconsciousness which you clearly recognize, and this perception of impending fainting lets you do something prior to losing control over your body. This period can be as short as 5 - 10 seconds, so you have to react quickly.

I was using nitrous oxide instead of inert gases for my experiments with asphyxiation, but people who dealt with inert gases described similar experiences. Various videos showing passing out from helium also demonstrated gradual fainting. By the way, once I even avoided a shallow water blackout because of appeared sense of clouding of consciousness during a long breath-holding underwater.

It's also remarkable that resuming breathing with air doesn't immediately stop further drifting into unconsciousness. It may take about 15 - 25 seconds till the process of fading is completely suspended and then you feel how your consciousness and perceptions start returning back to normal.

 

[snailluvr]

this method doesn't make you bleed. The blood is from body bloating or another reason . Maybe they slit wrists prior

that article included the photo i was shown by my friend - it makes me feel better knowing that it def wasn't from his lungs exploding. thanks guys (:

I need some help with my regulator, I bought a cheap one, ended up testing it - and it started to leak.

I live in Canada so I need a regulator available in Canada.

I'm wondering what regulators you guys suggest that you know won't leak?

depending on how bad the leak is, i know teflon tape can be used to seal small leaks

 

[outrider567]

How would I use the oximeter to test the nitrogen's purity? I know I would wear it and put the bag over my head, but if the oxygen drops to 0% on my oximeter then I'll pass out without removing the bag. Even if my oxygen quickly declines, and I take the bag off, that won't tell me if it's 0% oxygen.

My tank is 99.0% Nitrogen, as the manufacturer said its against the law to sell it any less pure than that--I have done 5 tests on myself but with an EEBD Hood(tight fit, difficult to remove)--I first used 15 lpm, but 25 lpm is recommended for the Hood--My last test, using the oximeter on your finger, is a delayed reaction, so its dangerous--After about 5 or 6 breaths at 25 lpm, it dropped below 80, I then took the Hood off, but the Oximeter dropped all the way to 40 next 10 seconds--no ill effects were observed(aside from tachycardia), but the point is, with that sharp a drop, its obvious the tank is 99.0 % purity--At the lower 15 lpm, my O2 level dropped to 54

A pulse oximeter will allow you to monitor your blood O2 saturation if you decide to test the gas and permits you to abort the test before you become unconscious. It won't directly tell you if there's O2 in your gas supply but it provides data about how quickly your O2 saturation drops when breathing inert gas inside your bag or hood and allows some insight regarding if you're likely to become unconscious if you continue to breathe that atmosphere. All data from tests is valuable when trying to CTB. However be aware if testing that you will be unconscious long before your %SpO2 reaches anywhere near zero; some people will pass out in the range 60-80%, for others it will be lower; there are multiple factors that determine each individual's time to unconsciousness in identical environments, so I can't tell you that you could definitely abort a test safely at 60% SpO2. Most people will suffer circulatory failure if %SpO2 remains below 40 for more than a couple of minutes. There is risk attached to all of this, even "tests".

Both N2 and Ar are being sold here mixed with other gases. In many cases it states clearly that it's a mix, but in some you have to check the data sheets to confirm the composition. Agree that 95% is a red flag. 5% CO2 would be uncomfortable to breathe. But reading through the comments on this thread demonstrates that some people will attempt to CTB with whatever they can get. I take the approach that more knowledge = higher chance of success

Mine dropped to 40 after removing the Hood, but it rapidly jumped back up to 98, I don't plan on doing any more tests, too risky

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

My tank is 99.0% Nitrogen, as the manufacturer said its against the law to sell it any less pure than that--I have done 5 tests on myself but with an EEBD Hood(tight fit, difficult to remove)--I first used 15 lpm, but 25 lpm is recommended for the Hood--My last test, using the oximeter on your finger, is a delayed reaction, so its dangerous--After about 5 or 6 breaths at 25 lpm, it dropped below 80, I then took the Hood off, but the Oximeter dropped all the way to 40 next 10 seconds--no ill effects were observed(aside from tachycardia), but the point is, with that sharp a drop, its obvious the tank is 99.0 % purity--At the lower 15 lpm, my O2 level dropped to 54

Mine dropped to 40 after removing the Hood, but it rapidly jumped back up to 98, I don't plan on doing any more tests, too risky

It sounds dangerous to do this test, and I don't want to risk anything testing it. I want to do the balloon test where you fill up a balloon and breathe it in. When I looked at the manufacturer's information it said it was 100% nitrogen. https://www.weldtechproducts.com/_files/ugd/ba2cd3_532d95a6f3334c72b2c299e73d3f378c.pdf
There may be no point in testing it, but I want a peace of mind.

that article included the photo i was shown by my friend - it makes me feel better knowing that it def wasn't from his lungs exploding. thanks guys (:

depending on how bad the leak is, i know teflon tape can be used to seal small leaks

They say to never put teflon tape on this part of the tank the CGA connection to the tank. I appreciate you letting me know though!

 

[NegevChina]

Can anyone say how to construct an exit bag? I've read about the turkey oven bags but it seems they are rather thin and might tear easily. Is there any other Idea for a bag? The garbage bags are to large and are not transparent and that may be to claustrophobic for me.

 

[parasite_eve]

What an amazing community and set of resources in this thread alone; working my way thru from beginning and finally to 2023 posts :) find myself now thinking SCBA vs bag but many more posts to go

 

[Depressive_Thoughts]

Thank you for the time you've spent writing in details

 

[parasite_eve]

I'm finding only really big filled ones of n2 on that one shopping site and not many options for delivery in US, wondering if anyone can speak to exp with that major US gas supplier since they say it takes a day to approve online account and looks like it might be harder to get n2 these days? Apologies don't have yet posts to search or pm yet.

 

[parasite_eve]

I had a nerve-wracking experience earlier. I purchased a cylinder of Nitrogen online 7 days ago in the US.
I thought all was well until I noticed the status was never changing to "ship". So, I decided to call the company and got a woman representative.
I was just expecting her to give me ship date so I could be reassured.
Yet, I was instantly bombarded with questions on what I needed it for and most importantly, if I didn't give her a company name, they wouldn't be able to ship because the nitrogen is for a business address.
I lied and told her it was for my father, and that he's a welder. That wasn't enough for her because she wanted a business so I told her I would call back with that information.
I immediately felt discouraged because I've been looking forward to eternal peace and I've been putting all my effort and energies into this method, only to find out I may not get the Nitrogen.

I'm an overthinker, and was nervous that If I called her back I would stumble over my words and screw this all up.
So, I finally called her back, and gave a random company name that has welding in it.
Then, she began questioning me on the residential shipping address because I originally put my address along with an apartment number.
So, I thought quickly and told her that the address she sees is the business address, and to just omit the apartment number.
And gave her an old address as my billing address.
Ultimately, she said it will ship out in 3 to 5 business days.
So, I know we concentrate on a story when purchasing Nitrogen, but it seems like in this case they really wanted a business name.
I guess every company is different .
What's strange is that they initially processed my credit card info, but they would gave never shipped if I didn't call.

Geez was thinking abt same place but maybe can make an s corp with UPS box address to register a biz quick and for a few hundred bucks?

 

[parasite_eve]

The Nitrogen Tank is never damaged by storing it in a closet--I've had mine in my utility room for 2.5 years and it still is in perfect shape, 125 cu ft, 3500 Liters, PSI still at 1600---The only think that hurts a Nitrogen Tank are temperatures over 125 degrees, then it will start spitting

Could I PM with a question?

 

[theshund]

Some thoughts on recent posts, but may only be relevant for the UK. I feel it's way easier to source N2 in the US.

Note, this is my intended method. I'm not suggesting anyone do any of this or giving anyone advice on how to ctb. It's just my plan for my own ctb.

I can only get small disposable tanks delivered online, so I'm getting four. I found most online delivery companies sell the small 2.2 litre tanks without asking any questions. 2.2 litres = 220 lites gas. Four tanks = 880 litres. One for testing, three for ctb. The downside: I'll need three regulators and those things cost. I'll also need three tubes. Feed all three into the bag then divide PSI for one tank at 15 lpm by three for a flow from each tank of 5 lpm. Combined the trio of tanks provide 15 lpm and a total 660 litres which is about 44 minutes of gas time. Conversion charts for lpm to PSI can be googled.

The tricky part (I assume as I'm still waiting on delivery of my tanks) will be turning on all three valves to the right flow rate in quick succession but those extra 4 minutes beyond the recommended 40 should suffice for this fiddly bit and 40 minutes is the 'safe' estimate. In reality I'll pass out in 10 to 15 seconds and be dead within ten to twenty minutes depending on how much oxygen contaminates proceedings.

I'm going to check specs on N2 purity carefully though! Here in the UK 99% pure N2 is only available as laboratory grade and restricted to business purchase only but certain air con suppliers provide small, purer tanks. They seem to be more stringent on who they sell to and why though.

This method is pricey but I think it solves a lot of the accessibility issues involved with procuring industrial size tanks and either transporting them or getting them shipped, at least here in the UK.

Note: the test tank is to double check flow rate inflates the bag in 60 seconds as I'm not confident using the regulators. If settings need tweaking I don't want to waste the 660 cbm N2.

I'm not testing purity with the spare canister. Inhaling N2 is extremely dangerous if not done correctly. I already failed once with too small a tank/wrong technique, revived before ten minutes and now have brain damage. I've learned the hard way not to get this method wrong. It is technically the trickiest peaceful option but also the gentlest and fastest. The hard part is setting it all up then overcoming SI. Believe me when I tell you, pulling the inflated bag down and starting to breath was almost impossible because I was in no doubt (at the time) it was going to kill me. Still not sure how I managed to beat the SI. I just blanked my mind when I pulled down the bag then, as I breathed, kept focusing on my reasons for leaving the world. It was brutally hard. Breathing deep or regularly was very hard as I was anxious and shallow breathing with quick shaky breaths.

Preparation approaching ctb: I tried twice at night. First time I watched my favourite show: Breaking Bad, last episode to calm my nerves then resolved to go after the last episode. Had a final vape, set everything up then started but couldn't bring myself to pull down the bag.

Second time, also at night, drank heavily and took diazepam. Managed to pull down bag and breathe but yanked bag off when I started to feel tingling in extremities and tunnel vision (after about 7 seconds).

Third time, woke up at 6am in state of despair as I do most days and was utterly resolved to do it. This time went all the way but previous two attempts had depleted gas and I didn't have enough left (had only one 2.2 litre tank, though airflow was too low also so it took a long time to finally pass out and those were long minutes. A lot of fear and shallow breathing, shaking, but I was determined and SI didn't stand a chance). I will do my next attempt the same way. Wait until I'm so desperate to ctb I do it with conviction.

If anyone is wondering how it feels, it doesn't. At least, I have no memory of the transition from awake to unconscious but then I do have brain damage. I slur my words, struggle to talk in coherent sentences and feel dizzy. Also have weird burst blood vessels in my fingertips and toes that look like varicose veins. I don't know what that is.

As far as I recall I was breathing shallow and quick, feeling very mild sense of suffocation (like you get if you wear just the bag without gas) then oblivion and reviving to find I the bag clinging to mouth and the panic/asphyxiation effect of breathing CO2. Couldn't remove the bag for a while as my hands were clawed. I had numb lips, headache, nausea, disorientation, dizziness and felt very cold. Didn't notice the slurring and cognitive effects until I tried to talk to someone much later.

I think, based on what others have said, my N2 was contaminated with CO2 hence the mild sense of anxiety and shallow breathing but it didn't nullify the hypoxia and it wasn't unbearable like if you try to just suffocate yourself.