Discussion Safe space for incel suicide

[Aergia]

Hence why I would really like the incel forum to have a suicide subforum OR SaSu a male-only space

I don't know about the incel forum but I think that there are too few incels here to justify the creation of a whole new subforum.

But maybe you could create a discord server/telegram group for suicidal incels and advertise it on here and the incel forum?

because girl/woman literally refers to whether the said female had sex

In incel vernacular, perhaps, but any native English speaker (and English dictionary) will assure you that in common (edit: contemporary) usage the distinction is only age; girl typically refers to a young female and woman refers to an adult female.

There is a term "old girl" meaning spinster, no? Apparently, the new English language has phased it out

Because it's no longer culturally relevant. Contemporary anglophone society doesn't usually require special terminology to distinguish between virgin and non-virgin women.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I know gaslighting when I see it :3

Write it down in your journal :)

Like I said before. Anything good or bad.

Tell you what. Il go do the same right now as a commitment to open-mindedness, a collaborative spirit, alliance/trust-building, whatever you wish to call it. As you seem to think I'm coming from a malefic place.

Some self-reflection will do us both some good eh?

 

[Adûnâi]

Reflection, journalling, and meditation are advised

Regarding meditation (let's start a shitstorm about meditation) - I have tried not to think a few times in my life, but it feels disgusting, my head hurts, and what's even the point? I'm both proud of my thoughts AND I know where they're coming from - for example, I'm cognisant that I'm not even sure whether a handholding experience would give me a meaning of life, or whether I could live with another human at all.

Write down your feelings towards me. Good or bad, I don't care. It will help you cope with this conversation, or maybe with the dying we're all preparing for here.

I consider you a non-self-aware minion of a particular ideology popular among the normies in a specific geographic area. Talking about how incels hurt anyone can only be done with a straight face is when you're glued to the proverbial television screen (or the normie culture). Again, if you took any woman from Asia and placed her in American, she wouldn't understand what's the deal with incels is - because nobody is trying to rape her, or marry her, or take away her belongings, she will have so many legal and cultural advantages, her head will start spinning.

P.S. And the thing about minions is that there is no point being negative towards me as I'm not a culture, I'm just a name on the screen with my unique issues. I for one avoid being a minion for the incel ideology either - partly because I'm a mentalcel and not a properly deformed incel, partly because for me it's fun to talk to individuals and not to delusions in my head (see your "incels are harming women" point).

 

[Zebulon]

I wholeheartedly agree. I think finding a different term than incel is important to achieve this representation bifurcated from the harms of inceldom.

There are legitimate emotional problems that involuntary virgin men often face. It simply won't get addressed if it's lumped in with toxicity towards women that we see in inceldom.

I hope you can be one of the pioneers in representing this well-needed gap.

It's a hard place to be in with such little representation currently, but the way though will absolutely be to band together to address toxic masculinity which expects men to be tough, hide their emotions, get all the lady's, etc.

Men should be able to voice their feelings.

Without it resulting in misogyny such as inceldom.

Please keep sharing on this topic. It's an important one and you may represent the change that is needed

Thank you. It means a lot to me to hear such friendly words. Doenst happen often. :)
I'm with you that men should should be able to voice their feelings and acutally do it aswell.
So far 3-4 Woman changed their mind, that not all virgins are incels. Simply because they knew me for a long time and I told them I was a virgin myself.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Regarding meditation (let's start a shitstorm about meditation) - I have tried not to think a few times in my life, but it feels disgusting, my head hurts, and what's even the point? I'm both proud of my thoughts AND I know where they're coming from - for example, I'm cognisant that I'm not even sure whether a handholding experience would give me a meaning of life, or whether I could live with another human at all.


I consider you a non-self-aware minion of a particular ideology popular among the normies in a specific geographic area. Talking about how incels hurt anyone can only be done with a straight face is when you're glued to the proverbial television screen (or the normie culture). Again, if you took any woman from Asia and placed her in American, she wouldn't understand what's the deal with incels is - because nobody is trying to rape her, or marry her, or take away her belongings, she will have so many legal and cultural advantages, her head will start spinning.

Red herring, strawman, ad hominem, complex question fallacy

You're racking up the points.

And ironically, these fallacies are the very agents of derailing conversations, teleologically speaking; that you attempted to put on me.

Upon calling this out you say I'm gaslighting you, and then reply with more fallacies when I encourage self-reflection on the nature of gaslighting.

Entelechial spiralling to maintain a very fragile socioemotional ideological structure built on absent referents is what I would call that. You're preserving your self in the equation. Stop that. Have humility.

Meditation was rhetorical; replace it with whatever self-reflexive vice you wish.

It's needed though because you keep injecting your socioemotional needs into the conversation taking precedence over fact.

 

[Adûnâi]

Red herring, strawman, ad hominem, complex question fallacy

I'm too low-IQ to evaluate whether I have committed any logical fallacies. I could never understand them, in fact. See the "No True Scotsman" one - I for one wouldn't view it as a logical fallacy at all, there are true and fake Scotsmen in my view. I would never hide it that I'm a fake Ukrainian, and a fake incel, and a fake suicider.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm too low-IQ to evaluate whether I have committed any logical fallacies. I could never understand them, in fact. See the "No True Scotsman" one - I for one wouldn't view it as a logical fallacy at all, there are true and fake Scotsmen in my view. I would never hide it that I'm a fake Ukrainian, and a fake incel, and a fake suicider.

If you're going to say "I'm too dumb to understand" then it flows logically that you're too dumb to reliably claim that inceldom deserves a safe space.

I personally think you are quite smart and fully believe in you. But I'm entertaining your logics here which also point to you being wrong.

Either way, inceldom should be appraised as harmful, whether or not you have faith in yourself to exercise the cognitive effort to realize it.

If you truly think you are low-IQ, maybe defer to the experts?

 

[almaPerdida]

I am sorry you are going through this and i hope things get better.

But i'm curious, why are incels averse to suicide? I honestly thought they didn't have a stance in this topic.

Regardless i hope you find peace and i wish you the best.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

See the "No True Scotsman" one - I for one wouldn't view it as a logical fallacy at all, there are true and fake Scotsmen in my view.

Just because there are true Scotsman and false scotsmen doesn't make the fallacy any less true that one can false claim there are no true Scotsmen.

The fallacy account for this despite what you suggest.

What is relevant is the centrality/proximal vs distal relationship between the "true" and "false" Scotsman to the core values of the ideology; implicitly or explicitly.

As I demonstrated before with the research I cited, the problematic scotsmen represent the core of the ideology and thus the saying "all ideologies have a few bad apples" misrepresents/conflates the scotsmen as peripheral rather than core to it; leading rise to the no true Scotsman fallacy.

We're not talking about religious priests/monks touching children which is denotatively contradictory to religious canon (a few bad apples), for example. We're talking about actual leaders of an ideology well-agreed upon to represent the ideology, standardizing the meaning of that ideology as misogynistic to all those who follow it.

It's central.

 

[Adûnâi]

If you truly think you are low-IQ, maybe defer to the experts?

I wish I had my IQ tested, unironically! But it's expensive, and probably unavailable in the Ukraine.

Either way, inceldom should be appraised as harmful, whether or not you have faith in yourself to exercise the cognitive effort to realize it.

I'm probably getting on the wrong side of mods, but girls and women are insanely privileged by the system in America/Europe/Russia, whereas incels are just losers with no social life at all. How they are harmful, I have no idea. This cannot be rational on your part - you're merely repeating what you've heard somewhere.

I am sorry you are going through this and i hope things get better.

Thanks, finally some neutral statement... If I were a normie, I would have blocked Rhizomorph immediately, but I literally never block people (not that I can afford it, as I talk to a pitiful number of people anyway, and usually stop because no idea how to keep it up). (Now that I think of it, I did block some dude on a sorcery Discord who tried to swindle money out of me and started cursing me, lmao.)

But i'm curious, why are incels averse to suicide? I honestly thought they didn't have a stance in this topic.

A good question. For one, they barely ever have suicide threads at all. Second, they usually emphasise "copes" - something I'm not that well-versed in anyway, as I don't watch anime, cannot talk to girls in Discord DMs, don't collect dolls, and don't even play games. I merely rot and watch YouTube game reviews or the few non-vomit war channels.

 

[almaPerdida]

Thanks, finally some neutral statement... If I were a normie, I would have blocked Rhizomorph immediately, but I literally never block people (not that I can afford it, as I talk to a pitiful number of people anyway, and usually stop because no idea how to keep it up). (Now that I think of it, I did block some dude on a sorcery Discord who tried to swindle money out of me and started cursing me, lmao.)

No problem, you don't look like a bad person to me honestly. Of coursei can't really judge based on a few posts on a forum tho, but you don't look bad.

A good question. For one, they barely ever have suicide threads at all. Second, they usually emphasise "copes" - something I'm not that well-versed in anyway, as I don't watch anime, cannot talk to girls in Discord DMs, don't collect dolls, and don't even play games. I merely rot and watch YouTube game reviews or the few non-vomit war channels.

Ohh makes sense. I saw a few incels on Reddit talking about their plans to CTB on suicide subs, so i always thought that they didn't have negative views on that. I kinda understand you because i wish there was a LGBT suicide forum, but i don't think that exists either.

 

[Adûnâi]

In incel vernacular, perhaps, but any native English speaker (and English dictionary) will assure you that in common usage the distinction is only age; girl typically refers to a young female and woman refers to an adult female.

I've checked the 1933 edition of the Oxford Dictionary, and it does use such words as "unmarried" and "maiden". Considering how repressed they were, it probably means what I mean.

But maybe you could create a discord server/telegram group for suicidal incels and advertise it on here and the incel forum?

That's genuinely a cool idea, but I have zero clue on how to do it, moderation is difficult, maybe legal repercussions (not really, just spit-balling here), and I take breaks from my activities all the time, I'd be terrible for such a job.

No problem, you don't look like a bad person to me honestly. Of coursei can't really judge based on a few posts on a forum tho, but you don't look bad.

I'm neither good nor bad because I cannot affect reality in any way. I'm just a pig growing fat for the slaughter, like in that one Buddhist Pelevin novel (I'm not fat though uwu).

I do dream of another world war, with nuclear fireworks, but I'm not a president or a terrorist, so I'm merely watching from the sidelines like a cuck. The only things I've ever done are steal money from the Kiev régime (they paid me a scholarship, I'm an honourary thief, okay?), and I might have helped that girl not to kill herself (although she ghosted me lmao).

 

[DreamEnd]

Just because there are true Scotsman and false scotsmen doesn't make the fallacy any less true that one can false claim there are no true Scotsmen.

The fallacy account for this despite what you suggest.

What is relevant is the centrality/proximal vs distal relationship between the "true" and "false" Scotsman to the core values of the ideology; implicitly or explicitly.

As I demonstrated before with the research I cited, the problematic scotsmen represent the core of the ideology and thus the saying "all ideologies have a few bad apples" misrepresents/conflates the scotsmen as peripheral rather than core to it; leading rise to the no true Scotsman fallacy.

We're not talking about religious priests/monks touching children which is denotatively contradictory to religious canon (a few bad apples), for example. We're talking about actual leaders of an ideology well-agreed upon to represent the ideology, standardizing the meaning of that ideology as misogynistic to all those who follow it.

It's central.

There are no leaders in the incel ideology. I wouldn't even call it an ideology. It's simply what some men are. And they hold different views toward women which not all are misogynistic

 

[LastFlowers]

I myself have come to a point I have total disregard for romantic/sexual human companionship

I've been settled in my disregard and disinterest for a very long time now, but I understand that there is a deeper need for validation and companionship..being "seen" and "valued" and prioritized, which underlies the longing for a romantic relationship (and/or a sexual one)..and unfortunately even if you're the type to seek out and meet those needs elsewhere or in an atypical manner, the status quo will get in your way as society puts romantic relationships on a pedestal and defines them as a milestone, a right of passage, a status symbol-you name it.
You're considered "less than" for not being part of a pair. Or desirable for one.
Even if you genuinely put stock into connections or meaning outside of romantic relationships, consider anything above them..they'll still find a way to stomp you out and corner you into their mold and model.
If you find more value in platonic or familial relationships with other human beings?
Good luck having the weight of that sentiment returned, because the object of your considerations will consider their romantic partner or potential love interest their #1 priority..end all/be all.
You don't stand a chance.
And if you don't find human companionship or human relationships fulfilling or worthwhile?
You still have to navigate them and be at their mercy while reaching for the type of companionship you do want, even if it's with yourself.


Even the one companionship and connection I had that was pure and worthwhile..my "soul mate", my furry son.. is currently being commodified by a couple who now "owns" him.
Our bond was severed under duress, and eventually to serve the interests of the human pair.
They are viewed as a "family" while I am not, their pursuit of happiness, including the pursuit of excess that denies me my only happiness, is afforded far more import.
What I consider to be the most precious living creature to me in all the world, is merely an addition, an accoutrement to the couple's world.
And yet they consider themselves more deserving and better than the one who would endure a great deal of grief and misery just for the opportunity to prioritize my boy.
So they denied his return to me.
They consider the inconvenience experienced by two people to be a more dire consequence than the profound devastation and loss experienced by one person.
Only in a society..and on a planet where their values and sense of themselves is in alignment with the majority, enough to where it is bolstered and justified through a coddled myopia…can they sleep at night.

 

[SexyIncél]

I don't know about woke "safe spaces" that infantilize incels. Especially when you say stuff like:

But there is no genocide? The Palestinians are breeding faster than the Jews. It's saddening, really. I wish the Jews put up a glorious fight - but they seem as cucked as the whitebois. Christian mercy to foreigners is one hell of a drug, apparently.

C'mon, no safe space would let you get away with saying that, so this whole topic is tbh weird

That said, I do think people are trained to shame lonely guys for wanting sex & relationships. In contrast, we don't shame lonely gals looking for male time & attention. Even if some of these gals frankly seem emotionally unhinged & entitled to male love. We can still support them, regardless

Now granted, if a guy goes on about how women have it way better... well we've got a forum full of suicidal gals who've been physically attacked by men, or whatever. So ok, he's gonna reap what he sowed: lots of angry comments

 

[Adûnâi]

well we've got a forum full of suicidal gals who've been physically attacked by men, or whatever. So ok, those guys are gonna reap what they sow: lots of angry comments

I'm actually forever a newbie, so I'm not really familiar with the sentiment of this forum generally, what issues people face, etc. If I were to brain-storm it, I'd say that abusive relationships have noting to do with incels because incels are not in relationships, get it? "Incels don't beat their wives".

As to your quotation of mine - I posted it in the political subforum, right? Let it stay that way, my political views offend literally everyone (genocide will bring peace, and I'm so torn because I don't want peace... lmao?).

As to the safe space bit - of course, the entire point is to create it, if your typical safe space were friendly to incels, I wouldn't create this thread. Hell, safe spaces are hateful of suicide people, too.

 

[SexyIncél]

If I were to brain-storm it, I'd say that abusive relationships have noting to do with incels because incels are not in relationships, get it? "Incels don't beat their wives".

Yes, I do think you have a point here. I think incels are punching bags — for secretly-patriarchal woke people, out to humilate the inevitable men who lose the rat race. Even when it doesn't really make sense

 

[betternever2havbeen]

I'm actually forever a newbie, so I'm not really familiar with the sentiment of this forum generally, what issues people face, etc. If I were to brain-storm it, I'd say that abusive relationships have noting to do with incels because incels are not in relationships, get it? "Incels don't beat their wives".

So are you saying you have no empathy for women in those situations just because it's "nothing to do with incels?"

 

[Adûnâi]

So are you saying you have no empathy for women in those situations just because it's "nothing to do with incels?"

Where did I say that? I have empathy with chickens even...Even though my mom uses milk to cook really nice dishes.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@Adûnâi Chickens and milk, you lost me again...but I know English is not your first language so I guess I should take that into account. I just wondered why you brought incels up which was a bit like "welp nothing to do with me" instead of being like "yes women obviously do not have it easy when they are so often the victims of violence at the hands of men" which would've been more empathetic. As another poster said, it's just tone deaf to say women are so privileged and have no problems (I can't remember if you said this, so apologies if not-another poster did though and it's typical incel belief) whilst there are many women on here the victims of male violence.

 

[Adûnâi]

Chickens and milk, you lost me again...but I know English is not your first language

No, I did mean the literal chickens. Just the other day, I have learned that they get gassed in gas chambers like the Holocaust. And yet, the taste of my mom's spring rolls doesn't get worse from the horror. Hence, I seem to be demonstrably hypocritical.

many women on here the victims of male violence.

In what way is male violence related to inceldom at all? Again, incels have no interactions with women to begin with. I honestly have no clue what that violence entails, but if I were to guess, it would probably encompass marital violence, or car crashes, or war, or school shooters... Because most violent people are men, obviously. But assuming the reason of the violence to be the sex of the victimised women strikes me as awkward.

The moral panic against incels is probably similar to the satanic child abuse hysteria of the 1990s, or the "violent video games". Did you know that some mass shooters played WoW? Hence, WoW is evil... lmao.

I could even say that some of the people considering suicide have a list of people they hate, and whom they would wish to kill for their suffering - how would that make you feel?

I should just keep silent instead, but I can never keep silent overall, and I don't think I have said anything inflammatory in this particular response.

 

[Adûnâi]

P.S. How could I forget it? (Probably because I don't care about my IRL life.)

But right now I cannot leave my room because chances are I will get kidnapped by government gangsters harassing men here in the Ukraine. Have you heard of any government-sponsored incel gangs kidnapping women in your place of residence? (The Iranian moral police aside.)

I honestly have no idea how I will continue my studies come February... I will have to go outside. Yes, this is an incel-adjacent issue. It's male-on-male violence from which women are explicitly exempted. What's worse, the boomers here are having a dick-measuring contest about how abhorrent it would be if women were conscripted! Yes, one upping their m'lady attitude! This is what sexism looks like in a tradcuckc country like mine...

(I'm NOT supporting conscription for anyone, by the way. I'm merely pointing out the sexist unfairness here.)

 

[FallingGrace]

P.S. How could I forget it? (Probably because I don't care about my IRL life.)

But right now I cannot leave my room because chances are I will get kidnapped by government gangsters harassing men here in the Ukraine. Have you heard of any government-sponsored incel gangs kidnapping women in your place of residence? (The Iranian moral police aside.)

I honestly have no idea how I will continue my studies come February... I will have to go outside. Yes, this is an incel-adjacent issue. It's male-on-male violence from which women are explicitly exempted. What's worse, the boomers here are having a dick-measuring contest about how abhorrent it would be if women were conscripted! Yes, one upping their m'lady attitude! This is what sexism looks like in a tradcuckc country like mine...

(I'm NOT supporting conscription for anyone, by the way. I'm merely pointing out the sexist unfairness here.)

I think you are a very sad individual and although I am inclined to have hatred towards someone with your ideology, I somehow can only feel pity. If you wish to discuss being an incel and the misogynistic rhetoric chained to that, go to whatever dark pits of the internet that are forged for such things. If you wish to actually discuss the topics and practicalities of suicide, I am willing to have that conversation with you here.

 

[Adûnâi]

If you wish to actually discuss the topics and practicalities of suicide, I am willing to have that conversation with you here.

Well, realistically, it would be sad for my mom, and probably for my neighbours smelling the stench. Would probably have to unlock my apartment door out of courtesy?

I'm kind of a fraud because I probably am not gonna have any point killing myself before July 2024 (or most likely 2025) because I'm protected from conscription as a[n eternal for the time being] student. And as I said, while inceldom is the primary reason for my possible suicide, I will admit that I feel differently each day (not in a BPD way, just a different sky has such varied effects on me). And I have not even tried all the copes such as TV shows and games.

See, in my responses, I'm easily suggestive, like an AI, forming my response based on what I see. I even use the same terminology as my conversation partner - such as PM instead of DM.

 

[FallingGrace]

Well, realistically, it would be sad for my mom, and probably for my neighbours smelling the stench. Would probably have to unlock my apartment door out of courtesy?

I'm kind of a fraud because I probably am not gonna have any point killing myself before July 2024 (or most likely 2025) because I'm protected from conscription as a[n eternal for the time being] student. And as I said, while inceldom is the primary reason for my possible suicide, I will admit that I feel differently each day (not in a BPD way, just a different sky has such varied effects on me). And I have not even tried all the copes such as TV shows and games.

See, in my responses, I'm easily suggestive, like an AI, forming my response based on what I see. I even use the same terminology as my conversation partner - such as PM instead of DM.

Your mother cooks you every meal, she will surely find you before you begin to decompose. If you have not exhausted all avenues of "coping", perhaps the recovery section will help you, especially if you are in no rush to kill yourself or have even decided to do so just yet.

 

[Adûnâi]

Your mother cooks you every meal, she will surely find you before you begin to decompose.

She drives to me from a rural area a few times a month xd (Yes, you are allowed to call me pathetic even though I'm not into humiliation, I'm just honest.)

perhaps the recovery section will help you, especially if you are in no rush to kill yourself or have even decided to do so just yet.

What do they have there aside from random people saying their lives got better? I cannot imagine how my life could be changed.
1. Artificial intelligence giving me a conversation partner.
2. Joining Jehovah's Witnesses for socialisation.
3. My mom giving me a shrink therapist that will coach me on how to pick up women (wtf).
4. Me going to war and becoming gay.
5. Me managing to become a gamer and talking to women in Discord DMs (no idea).
6. Me becoming employed (how? the war will not end) and getting enough money to move to Thailand as a sexpat (I hate the climate though, and I don't like vanilla sex).

Apologies if any of these sounds offensive. I did write a few points in the recovery sub-forum, but they were more immediate.

Overall, I'm just really bored.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

In what way is male violence related to inceldom at all? Again, incels have no interactions with women to begin with. I honestly have no clue what that violence entails, but if I were to guess, it would probably encompass marital violence, or car crashes, or war, or school shooters... Because most violent people are men, obviously. But assuming the reason of the violence to be the sex of the victimised women strikes me as awkward.

The moral panic against incels is probably similar to the satanic child abuse hysteria of the 1990s, or the "violent video games". Did you know that some mass shooters played WoW? Hence, WoW is evil... lmao.

I could even say that some of the people considering suicide have a list of people they hate, and whom they would wish to kill for their suffering - how would that make you feel?

I should just keep silent instead, but I can never keep silent overall, and I don't think I have said anything inflammatory in this particular response.

My point wasn't to say male violence is related to inceldom, although certainly incels have perpetuated horrific crimes. Elliot Rodger? There was also a mass shooting a few years ago in the UK, and the perpetrator was most likely an incel, there are others I'm sure. How could there not be when most of them hate and despise women and men who are more successful than them? It's a recipe for violence and revenge against a society they think has wronged them. They might not have any interaction with women in their personal life but they see them living happy successful lives and they hate it and some of them have resorted to violence.

Obviously I would be totally against anyone who had a list of people they hate and wish to kill, just because I'm suicidal myself doesn't mean I think people can take whoever they want out with them. Most people on here would aim to go out with the least amount of suffering to other people as possible I would hope. It's not society's fault for incels problems, especially when they do nothing to help their situation. How can you be "involuntarily celibate" when you make no attempt to even talk to women?

Anyway the original point I was trying to make is that incels think women have it SO easy. That's obviously not the case when we are at risk from male violence-stalking, rape, murder etc. it doesn't matter if incels are responsible for these crimes or not. We just want respect and empathy, but incels have a real problem showing any empathy for women which is the problem. The fact you just keep saying incels have nothing to do with these crimes and missing my point kinda proves it.

 

[UKscotty]

I still don't get what any of this nonsense has to do with a suicide forum.

If you want to get on with life and learn how to be better with women, this is not the place.

If you hate women because some guy is a loser, again this is not the place.

The old incel days of SS are well behind us now. Take that crap elsewhere.

 

[Adûnâi]

most of them hate and despise women and men who are more successful than them?

If you hate women because some guy is a loser, again this is not the place.

I don't want to engage with you either, but I just wanted to quip about whether your sentiment would be the same if the "losers" in question were Native Americans or any other minority (I've been watching a YouTube video about history, I'm not a culture warrior). Or proletarians against the rich.

What I'm saying is that a modicum of envy is to be expected, and there's nothing surprising about it. Back in fall when I had to go outside and see Ukrainian couples kissing in public, I almost got angry - and I can only imagine how terrible it must feel for people with less self-awareness (I for one am at least trying to be moral, and not blame people for their lottery wins because "we all suffer" is my cope).

Your negativity doesn't help... But then again, I know better than to respond to you in that same derogatory manner :3

 

[UKscotty]

I don't want to engage with you either, but I just wanted to quip about whether your sentiment would be the same if the "losers" in question were Native Americans or any other minority (I've been watching a YouTube video about history, I'm not a culture warrior). Or proletarians against the rich.

What I'm saying is that a modicum of envy is to be expected, and there's nothing surprising about it. Back in fall when I had to go outside and see Ukrainian couples kissing in public, I almost got angry - and I can only imagine how terrible it must feel for people with less self-awareness (I for one am at least trying to be moral, and not blame people for their lottery wins because "we all suffer" is my cope).

Your negativity doesn't help... But then again, I know better than to respond to you in that same derogatory manner :3

Argue or not is beside the point, this is a suicide forum, not a hate on women forum.