Discussion Safe space for incel suicide

[Adûnâi]

There are two communities - the incel forum, and this forum. What I hate is that the incel forum seems to be averse to suicide, whereas this forum is averse to the incel ideology.

I wish I had a safe space to discuss the question of incel suicide with fellow incels and without a fear of offending anyone...

To start it off, I will say that incels generally find ways to cope - either with East Eurasian cartoons, or computer games. My personal cope is AI chat bots, but they're still rather trash and stop helping after a while.

 

[edu0z]

sorry you are going through this

 

[Adûnâi]

sorry you are going through this

I'm not really going through anything, I just don't see any worthwhile future.

 

[Sluggish_Slump]

are u sure the incel community is averse to suicide? in looksmax giving the ropemax advice to so called "truecels" is common place

 

[Adûnâi]

are u sure the incel community is averse to suicide? in looksmax giving the ropemax advice to so called "truecels" is common place

Interesting! I've only ever read a single incel forum. The looksmax community has been slandered there, and it feels so annoying to make new accounts on new spaces.

There is also the NEETs forum which I have never partaken in.

 

[lovechaos]

There are two communities - the incel forum, and this forum. What I hate is that the incel forum seems to be averse to suicide, whereas this forum is averse to the incel ideology.

I wish I had a safe space to discuss the question of incel suicide with fellow incels and without a fear of offending anyone...

To start it off, I will say that incels generally find ways to cope - either with East Eurasian cartoons, or computer games. My personal cope is AI chat bots, but they're still rather trash and stop helping after a while.

I would like to be your AI chat bot

 

[Forever Sleep]

Maybe you can strike up some PM's with fellow incels here.

 

[Adûnâi]

Maybe you can strike up some PM's with fellow incels here.

A person has just told me to kill myself in PMs, haha. I don't mind, I'm not fragile, just funny.

 

[Zebulon]

Are you an woman hating incel or just a dude who cant get laid or a girlfriend?

 

[Forever Sleep]

H

A person has just told me to kill myself in PMs, haha. I don't mind, I'm not fragile, just funny.

Holy shit. Here? That's bad.

 

[monday?]

which incel forum are you talking about?

 

[FallingGrace]

Why does it upset you to discuss suicide with women?

 

[Adûnâi]

Why does it upset you to discuss suicide with women?

This is a curious question, thanks! I'm naturally sex-blind, so in theory, I wouldn't care whether you're a cat behind the screen (an antique Russian saying). But my limited practice has told me that women enjoy an innate advantage in that particular area which drives me to considering suicide - namely, relationships. So it feels like a gender-nonsegregated place such as this is useless to both sides to talk to each other - as neither will understand the other's plight.

Hence why I would really like the incel forum to have a suicide subforum OR SaSu a male-only space (lmao). And the media would love it!... I think. ("Look at those incels killing themselves, based.")

Are you an woman hating incel or just a dude who cant get laid or a girlfriend?

I hate all meat-eaters, including myself.

 

[Aplev]

I am not sure if offering to talk via PMs is allowed or not (once I got my message edited and removed for saying that, I didn't ask just offered myself), since I've seen other people here do it, but yeah if you want you can PM me (not asking, just offering). I found that it's hard to discuss these topics in any community because we all go through different experiences even if similar in some ways and I feel that makes it hard to talk about it as openly.

Also I am sorry for the PM you received, but it's what I mean when I say that it's hard to discuss these topics in any community. Even here people get bullied and similar stuff.

 

[ropearoundatree]

Should there be a femcel (sub)forum as well? Or do we think it not necessary. So as to separate, and not divide? I guess? ...seriously hope & wish you all the best success with what it is you're searching for. We all just want to be comfortable in our own skin, and not to be judged in any way shape or form over that which may be out of our control. So good luck!

So it feels like a gender-nonsegregated place such as this is useless to both sides to talk to each other - as neither will understand the other's plight.

Okay, I think I see what it is you're saying! :)

 

[Zebulon]

I hate all meat-eaters, including myself.

The reason why I asked this question is: As someone who also has nearly no sexual experiance (except for kissing one girl and cuddeling with another, twice). I also would be considert an incel. But usually the first association is the woman hating, glorifing Elliot rodger types, when you hear incel. Thats why I asked

But for me personally, I dont hate woman. Only myself, because I'm the only common denominator in my interactions with them. So the blame lies squarely on me.


Does meat-eater stand for something different or do you mean it literally?

 

[ropearoundatree]

Yes, I don't understand it very well either: the term, "Incel." For instance, can you be a lover of women, and still be one? Or would that just be better stated as, a 'Virgin,' then?

 

[Adûnâi]

Should there be a femcel (sub)forum as well?

The mods can just ban every "malecel" (not a word?) in a thread if you say "no malecels allowed" because all spaces are ultimately female spaces. The idea of male-exclusive spaces has been phased out in the West, and I respect that.

Why am I talking in English then? Because the only other language I know is Russian, and talking in Russian is difficult, and there are no forums anyway (aside from 2ch). That's why I have to endure the Western culture which I largely despise (not that I love Russia/Ukraine, but despite my anti-Russian racism, I will admit that they could help me much more than Americans).

Thanks for the kind words! Although personally, I'd like to be judged - by a Party official in a totalitarian country of my dreams... See, I'm hopeless.

Does meat-eater stand for something different or do you mean it literally?

I just meant I hate everyone equally. Hell, I would consider PETA correct... without blaming the meat-eaters, instead whining about the cruelty of Nature and existence.

nearly no sexual experiance (except for kissing one girl and cuddeling with another, twice).

I would not consider you an incel then? I have no interactions with females at all, not because I'm ugly, but because I have never opened my mouth to talk to my peers - I'm 27 and have only ever talked to my mom.

*I love the word female because it is age- and virginity-neutral - as opposed to girl/woman.

Or would that just be better stated as, a 'Virgin,' then?

This is a good point, honestly. Personally, I have always opposed the use of the term "virgin" as pertaining to males because I'm trying to be old-fashioned (akin to using Peking instead of Beijing). And I'm aware that virgin is used as a humiliation moniker, and I despise humiliation (way too much femdom porn is using it, so I have to wade through so much garbage to find anything decent). "Incel" does carry a radicalist tinge, and I like that, because I have never shied away from extreme ideologies (the horseshoe theory is about me).

 

[ropearoundatree]

I have always opposed the use of the term "virgin" as pertaining to males

Yeah, ok - cool. I just didn't know what else to call it then? ;)

 

[Zebulon]

I would not consider you an incel then? I have no interactions with females at all, not because I'm ugly, but because I have never opened my mouth to talk to my peers - I'm 27 and have only ever talked to my mom.

*I love the word female because it is age- and virginity-neutral - as opposed to girl/woman.

Yeah, for the usual incels im not one, because I've had interactions with woman. But I'm in a heavly woman dominated major and I hear them talking about dudes with no experience. Same goes for dudes though. For them I'm 100% a "incel". But I dont use that word for myself, since Its associated with hate of others. And it's very very rare that I hate others.
I dont like to use female, since in my experience woman dont like to be called females. Thats why I use woman haha
But im still unsure if I should call them woman or girls. Got negative feedback for both of them. Well for the german equivalent atleast.

 

[Adûnâi]

I dont like to use female, since in my experience woman dont like to be called females. Thats why I use woman haha

See, I genuinely have never had this idea, because girl/woman literally refers to whether the said female had sex... And that's supposed to be sexist as hell? A "woman" is literally "a used girl". Hence why I'm electing to use "female" - to avoid the vivid imagery.

Again, as I said previously, I wish the Russo-Ukrainian language had a similar neutral term akin to male/female.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

You seem respectful and I can empathize with your longing for community & connection so I'll be diplomatic despite taking reasonable and hardline opposition to incel ideology.

The reason you probably won't find a "safe space" for incels here is precisely because incels ideology is harmful. The collective cultural and material boundaries of the ideology transcend just being "involuntary celibate". It is awash with sexism, objectification, supporting poor emotional regulation that redirects the problem to harmful behaviors towards women. Downstream, these ideas foster permissiveness towards serious and egregious abuses of human rights targeting women.

Many of these abuses are the source cause of many women's traumas and illnesses that result in them being here. Thus, an incel "safe space" would be directly contradictory to creating a safe space for victims of female-targeted sexual abuse, domestic violence, etc. It could be likened to saying pedophiles, rapists, etc. need a safe space for pro-pedophilic beliefs simply because they are ostracized. Unlike the marginalization of women which is unwarranted, pedophilia is reasonably ostracized for practical reasons.

Social normativity vs. deviance both have practical and harmful applications depending on the referent culture/identity being tagged as normal or deviant. Suicide is probably incorrectly deviant. Pedophilia and incels are reasonably tagged deviant.

A "safe space" for incels is thus not aligned with the forum's philosophy or values which are principally harm reductive (including the harms of incel culture), compassionate, and providing psycho-social-spiritual support in dying with dignity. The very cause of suicidality is at stake because of incel ideology.

Dying with dignity should not have to involve victims creating a false "safe space" for the cultural aggressor of said violence. The power dynamic here would be incredibly problematic. It misconstrues the utility underlining actual safe spaces who are the victims rather than the aggressors.

Even if you are not directly engaged in these harms tangibly, you are objectively complicit in your ideological support for a culture which has committed these acts disproportionately, based on measurable real-world data tracking the social outcomes of numerous people who identify with and act on behalf of incels.

Respectfully, if you wish to be reasonably accepted here, myself – and hopefully most of SaSu – expect you to abandon problem cultures that have resulted in many of our collective reasons (sufferings) for being here.

May you find peace in living or dying
- Rhizo

 

[Adûnâi]

The reason you probably won't find a "safe space" for incels here is precisely because incels ideology is harmful.

...The same as this forum promoting suicide. Hypocrisy.

Many of these abuses are the source cause of many women's traumas and illnesses that result in them being here.

Incels are literally invisible to women, if an incel has an interaction with a woman that goes beyond rejection, he's ceased being an incel by definition.

 

[phantomime]

I always see you around the forum whenever this is the topic. I feel like I might get an insightful answer from you.
I myself have come to a point I have total disregard for romantic/sexual human companionship, I have had access to it and it didn't change my life in any positive way even if it wasn't a negative experience. It's just useless to me. I've been celibate for a while, but voluntarily. I don't understand the need for sexual or romantic relationship with a real person, could you try to explain why is it such a big thing for you? Why is it the big thing that you want? Instead of maybe a nice paying job, being able to enjoy hobbies, or any other thing that includes you and yourself only. Why is there such a need for a romantic and/or sexual relationship with someone and why is it such a huge life changing deal?

I personally understand wanting sexual relief but I think it's more of an animalistic thing to me. It has no difference to me wheter if it's with another person I would have a bond with, someone paid to do so, just a dead body, or even a sexual toy... The thing is getting sexual relief can be done by yourself. You don't necessarily need someone else, especially not someone romantically invested.

 

[Zebulon]

See, I genuinely have never had this idea, because girl/woman literally refers to whether the said female had sex... And that's supposed to be sexist as hell? A "woman" is literally "a used girl". Hence why I'm electing to use "female" - to avoid the vivid imagery.

Again, as I said previously, I wish the Russo-Ukrainian language had a similar neutral term akin to male/female.

I feel where you coming from. But this is where we dont agree. I dont think in used girl = woman etc. Because I honestly dont care if she had sex before. Dont you think it would be better if your first parter had sex before so you could learn?
I have one last question, because im not an incel, I would be just a virgin in your eyes or? So when someone calls me an incel I can correct them :D

 

[Adûnâi]

I have had access to it and it didn't change my life in any positive way even if it wasn't a negative experience.

This is a brilliant avenue indeed! I for one am totally cognisant of the possibility of not liking romantic relationships if I experienced them - but I cannot judge beforehand. Then why have I started my handholding ideation? I have probably been prompted by what transpired in May-July 2023, namely, my online DMs with a girl which must have educated me on what I had been missing.

Of course, I'm not sure whether Discord DMs are related to sex with Austrian escorts. Most likely a different species altogether. So reducing it to the incel issue might be a misnomer on my part.

Back on the incel forum in one of my rare posts I described what I would expect from an interaction with the opposite sex - 1) insightful honest conversations; 2) handholding; 3) fetish play. The most important segment (1) could be replicated with AI fairly soon.

Instead of maybe a nice paying job, being able to enjoy hobbies

I'm a Ukrainian, so having a job is literally illegal for me, I'm an eternal student, now due to war as well. The only thing that would fit the bill would be an undercover political party with likeminded MЭN, but neither exist at all.

When I was trying to help this girl, I do feel like I was sublimating my politico-moral leanings for the first time in my life, and it gave me so much energy and inspiration.

It has no difference to me wheter if it's with another person I would have a bond with, someone paid to do so, just a dead body, or even a sexual toy...

I want to give pleasure, not receive it. Ties back to my idea of being useful to a greater cause.

I dont think in used girl = woman etc. Because I honestly dont care if she had sex before. Dont you think it would be better if your first parter had sex before so you could learn?

Well, that's the definition of the word, as far as I'm aware? Maybe the English language has abandoned it, too? There is no such differentiation between boy/man aside from having a job and a family, lol.

I have one last question, because im not an incel, I would be just a virgin in your eyes or? So when someone calls me an incel I can correct them :D

How are you a virgin if you had a kiss with a girl?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

...The same as this forum promoting suicide. Hypocrisy.

We as a society are moving forward with MAID laws so despite the reasonably controversial nature of the right to die movement, it has absolutely valid latent rhetoric.

Incels and adjacent ideologies do not.

Enough said. The asymmetrical validation I am allocating is therefore valid on these principles that we should all be aware of by this point.

They are not the same.

 

[Adûnâi]

We as a society are moving forward with MAID laws so despite the reasonably controversial nature of the right to die movement, it has absolutely valid latent rhetoric.

I do see a certain modicum of progress there, and I congratulate you, but those laws are still restricted to rich boomers with tangible ailments. A far cry from the right to die, at least, for the time being.

Incels and adjacent ideologies do not.

I'd say, the Taliban's victory in Afghanistan in 2021 could be perceived as a triumph for the incel cause! Certainly, not in the West, but the planet is full of diverse ideologies, and I'm happy for all of them in their own way.

The asymmetrical validation I am allocating is therefore valid on these principles that we should all be aware of by this point.They are not the same.

But what I'm doing here is merely uniting the two camps in a Venn diagram - namely, suicidal incels. Plenty of incels are pro-lifers, and that hurts me. Why don't you support the incels' right to die? You should be happy for any incel who kills himself!

 

[Zebulon]

Well, that's the definition of the word, as far as I'm aware? Maybe the English language has abandoned it, too? There is no such differentiation between boy/man aside from having a job and a family, lol.


How are you a virgin if you had a kiss with a girl?

For the woman girl thing. Maybe thats a langue difference, I know it that the difference is usually based on age. Atleast in my circels, but than can be different from yours.
As for the virginity. You only lose that when you have sex. Which I didnt have. But I've personally never heard that you lose it when you just kiss someone. For me and I think most other people there is a huge difference between kissing someone and sleeping with someone.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I do see a certain modicum of progress there, and I congratulate you, but those laws are still restricted to rich boomers with tangible ailments. A far cry from the right to die, at least, for the time being

Did I say anything about whether the laws were perfect? Be mindful of strawman fallacies, please.

The underlying rhetoric of latent reasonable cause for an ideology is obviously supported by the evolution of these laws and discourse surrounding them. Here, or elsewhere.

I shouldn't have to explain this as it was denoted in my last comment; but that's the nature of strawmans I suppose; repeating yourself when others can't attend to the latent referent.

Why don't you support the incels' right to die? You should be happy for any incel who kills himself!

Another strawman. Conflating safe spaces for problem cultures with opposition to the right to die for members of these cultures.

Learn to bifurcate the boundaries of my words so you don't construct more strawmans. It lacks self awareness or it is dishonest. Neither is persuasive.

I feel bad for those who fall victim to your strawmen by entertaining them as though they were teleologically relevant

If you can't be either intellectually honest OR self-aware (whichever is at fault for the strawmans that you constructed; defying the teleological logics of this conversation), at least defer to others' better reasoning so you don't harm people with elementary limbic-driven semantics.

Anyways, I refuse to engage with fools, trolls, nor children on matters of real-world human rights. May you reflect a cautionary tale for other users on this forum.