Discussion Safe space for incel suicide

[betternever2havbeen]

What I'm saying is that a modicum of envy is to be expected, and there's nothing surprising about it. Back in fall when I had to go outside and see Ukrainian couples kissing in public, I almost got angry - and I can only imagine how terrible it must feel for people with less self-awareness (I for one am at least trying to be moral, and not blame people for their lottery wins because "we all suffer" is my cope).

But you never approach women, do you think the men in those couples had women just knock on their door? Or did they make the effort to actually talk to women and get to know them? I just don't know what you expect. I mean you talk about the lottery and it's the equivalent of getting mad you never win the lottery when you didn't even buy a ticket. This is why people don't understand the incel mindset. They seem to think women should be flocking to them, literally knocking on their door, that's not how it works. Like what do you actually want?

It's cool if you're not the woman-hating kind of incel but they're usually toxic people to be around and won't help you-I mean if you just wanna be able to wallow I guess that's up to you, as long as you don't project that outwards to being the fault of others.

 

[Adûnâi]

Argue or not is beside the point, this is a suicide forum, not a hate on women forum.

I'm sorry, but you're arguing with phantoms. I'm not hating on women.

But you never approach women, do you think the men in those couples had women just knock on their door?

This is much more constructive, thank you! If you're willing to help with ideas, here's my position. I have never talked to any of my peers in my life, have never established any social connections, relationships, circles. I have no idea where, when or with whom to do it. I go to school - I go home, and that's my entire life. I literally have no idea what normal people do in their spare time, where or how they socialise.

My ideas have been joining Jehovah's Witnesses, other people have suggested approaching/stalking people in parks/libraries (wtf), or joining a dancing club (eh, not sure whether they exist in my area and this time - again, where do I even look for? On Facebook?).

I mean you talk about the lottery and it's the equivalent of getting mad you never win the lottery when you didn't even buy a ticket.

Generic normie socialisation is what I have lost on. Of course, I drew the ticket - I was born.

This is why people don't understand the incel mindset.

Umm, I'm not a typical incel because I'm autistic, not physically deformed. Incels approach women, I don't know how even to do that. All I know is that I'm not supposed to shout in my uni corridor lmao.

It's cool if you're not the woman-hating kind of incel but they're usually toxic people to be around and won't help you-I mean if you just wanna be able to wallow I guess that's up to you, as long as you don't project that outwards to being the fault of others.

The only person I genuinely put the blame on is my mom for not doing an abortion - she had one job! And it's completely legal in the Ukraine thanks to Vladimir Lenin.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

Based af. Shout out to all the blackpilled bros suffering.

 

[_smile_]

...The same as this forum promoting suicide. Hypocrisy.

The forum does not "promote" suicide. The forum actually exists as a safe space to express one's own autonomy in relation to life and death. It is a community which supports free speech regarding the topic of suicide, mental health and all the challenges that surround these issues, in which society ignores and tries to cover up. It also supports the fostering of friendships and recovery.

I am personally grateful such a place like this exists, as no where else is there a community that understands the suicidal ideation i struggle with each and every day, and my own choice to continue existing or stop breathing. Regardless of its flaws, we are able to have this very discussion right now.

No place is perfect.

 

[ScubaCTB]

I know this world is a lot different since my 80s and 90s childhood. And I only kind of, sort of know what the word "incel" means. But geez, is it really that hard for young men and high school boys to get laid these days? I lost my virginity at age 12 and she was 11. The second one was a 22-year-old college woman when I was 13 (sadly that wasn't that big a deal back then as far as being a crime). Ugly dudes could f* ugly/fat chicks and vice versa whenever because we all were horny kids. Some shapely guys even like thick girls' and hot girls like nerds in some situations.

Just curious...what is a typical "ask her out" scenario like in 2023-24 for, let's say, a 17-18 year old guy? Prom and stuff still exist. Don't you guys get laid on prom night??

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

I know this world is a lot different since my 80s and 90s childhood. And I only kind of, sort of know what the word "incel" means. But geez, is it really that hard for young men and high school boys to get laid these days? I lost my virginity at age 12 and she was 11. The second one was a 22-year-old college woman when I was 13 (sadly that wasn't that big a deal back then as far as being a crime). Ugly dudes could f* ugly/fat chicks and vice versa whenever because we all were horny kids. Some shapely guys even like thick girls' and hot girls like nerds in some situations.

Just curious...what is a typical "ask her out" scenario like in 2023-24 for, let's say, a 17-18 year old guy? Prom and stuff still exist. Don't you guys get laid on prom night??

Mogger.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@ScubaCTB most of the incels don't ask women out, that's the issue, but they don't really see it as their fault so they tend to blame women and society. They seem to think women should be pursuing them instead and they are usually incredibly entitled, thinking they deserve the hottest women-they would look down on the ones that weren't attractive-I believe everyone gets reduced to a number, and they only want 9s and 10s. Or they come up with crazy reasons women aren't interested in them like the shape of their jaw and other weird stuff. Most of them have such non-existent social skills they have absolutely no idea how to talk to the opposite sex. They're not getting out there and socialising, they're sitting in their room on the computer. That's fine if you don't WANT a relationship, but if you do? Well it's not likely to happen is it?

I do feel bad for the ones that do ask women out and are repeatedly rejected, but it happens to most men at some point I'm sure. Those that don't, or expect women to chase them, I have less sympathy for. And if they're fully gone into the whatever-pilled movement, and are misogynistic and hateful, absolutely no sympathy whatsoever.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

@ScubaCTB most of the incels don't ask women out, that's the issue, but they don't really see it as their fault so they tend to blame women and society. They seem to think women should be pursuing them instead and they are usually incredibly entitled, thinking they deserve the hottest women-they would look down on the ones that weren't attractive-I believe everyone gets reduced to a number, and they only want 9s and 10s. Or they come up with crazy reasons women aren't interested in them like the shape of their jaw and other weird stuff. Most of them have such non-existent social skills they have absolutely no idea how to talk to the opposite sex. They're not getting out there and socialising, they're sitting in their room on the computer. That's fine if you don't WANT a relationship, but if you do? Well it's not likely to happen is it?

I do feel bad for the ones that do ask women out and are repeatedly rejected, but it happens to most men at some point I'm sure. Those that don't, or expect women to chase them, I have less sympathy for. And if they're fully gone into the whatever-pilled movement, and are misogynistic and hateful, absolutely no sympathy whatsoever.

Just believe in every incel cliche theory.

 

[ManchildLoser]

Did I say anything about whether the laws were perfect? Be mindful of strawman fallacies, please.

The underlying rhetoric of latent reasonable cause for an ideology is obviously supported by the evolution of these laws and discourse surrounding them. Here, or elsewhere.

I shouldn't have to explain this as it was denoted in my last comment; but that's the nature of strawmans I suppose; repeating yourself when others can't attend to the latent referent.


Another strawman. Conflating safe spaces for problem cultures with opposition to the right to die for members of these cultures.

Learn to bifurcate the boundaries of my words so you don't construct more strawmans. It lacks self awareness or it is dishonest. Neither is persuasive.

I feel bad for those who fall victim to your strawmen by entertaining them as though they were teleologically relevant

If you can't be either intellectually honest OR self-aware (whichever is at fault for the strawmans that you constructed; defying the teleological logics of this conversation), at least defer to others' better reasoning so you don't harm people with elementary limbic-driven semantics.

Anyways, I refuse to engage with fools, trolls, nor children on matters of real-world human rights. May you reflect a cautionary tale for other users on this forum.

Dude chill wtf

 

[ScubaCTB]

Mogger.

LOL! Thank you for the response. I had to look up the word "mogger." I don't think I'm that. I am in shape even in my 40s. But I have facial features that make me weird and different. Been very self-conscious my whole life. My problem is that I decided to f* whores and not keep one of the many real women, real wives throwing themselves at me, in those years. The "incels" in 2024 need to re-evaluate. Women have rough social dynamics too in 2023-24. if you want a family, a wife, support, etc....it is there. But it is and will be harder to cut through. Just be cheesy sweet. Regardless of feminism, women love a sweet guy with a hard story.

To young men: if you make 10 calls and are rejected 9 times, that's normal. The ONE is likely your wife for the rest of your life. Try it.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Just believe in every incel cliche theory.

I'm completely open to being proved wrong, what did you disagree with?

 

[ManchildLoser]

I'm following the teleological logics that you have constructed via your responses. My OP was relevant and every response also relevant to what you have responded with.

Any derailing was thus your own doing. It's your decision as to whether or not to take accountability.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch ;)

I can feel the discomfort through the screen. But remember, "The facts are always friendly" - Carl Rogers.

If they feel unfriendly, what can you change within yourself to make them friendly? Reflection, journalling, and meditation are advised

Write down your feelings towards me. Good or bad, I don't care. It will help you cope with this conversation, or maybe with the dying we're all preparing for here.

With love in living or dying
May you find peace.

The way you write your comments makes you seem very passive/agressive and condescending. Please be respectful.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

I'm completely open to being proved wrong, what did you disagree with?

Well, just for instance, your quote, 'They seem to think women should be pursuing them instead and they are usually incredibly entitled, thinking they deserve the hottest women-they would look down on the ones that weren't attractive-I believe everyone gets reduced to a number, and they only want 9s and 10s', is contrary to findings in a 2023 study published in The Journal of Sex Research:

'...contrary to mainstream media narratives, incels have lower standards for partners compared to non-incels'

https://www.swansea.ac.uk/press-off...y-reveals-the-dating-psychology-of-incels.php

 

[SexyIncél]

I'm completely open to being proved wrong, what did you disagree with?

Hoo boy, this is a big topic, with different useful perspectives. To avoid boring everyone with a wall of text, I'll write this under a spoiler. I'm also partly replying to @ScubaCTB

I mean, it's like telling SaSu members to just try harder. But it's not easy to fix root causes of suffering — tons of work, sometimes virtually impossible. Sure, sometimes it's "just psychological" — as if THAT'S easy!

Spoiler: Top redpillers & bell hooks

Top redpillers

Even if you somehow manage to pull gals reliably, congrats: now you have a new set of problems! In a society of propagandized consumerist assholes, you got a gal who's at least somewhat of a kneejerk emotional monster who could fuck you up

And you too are a consumerist asshole who'll probably fuck it all up. You need the right mindsets & skills

The essence of the red pill: provide value. The more value you provide (appropriate to the market segment), the more these consumers will give you what you want. They don't give a fuck about you otherwise

Top redpill advisors — Orion Taraban, Fresh&Fit, Alexander Grace — guide you through the many traps


bell hooks

Many men will always be losers under patriarchy. And they'll be angry af, because anger's the ONLY emotion that patriarchy values when men express it. (And just like Andrew Tate, many women are disgusted & contemptuous of men expressing their feelings)

bell hooks says "In an anti-patriarchal culture, males do not have to prove their value and worth. They know from birth that simply being gives them value, the right to be cherished and loved."

So it's right for men & women to feel entitled to love. And if that happens, she claims: "Only a revolution of values in our nation will end male violence, and that revolution will necessarily be based on a love ethic. To create loving men, we must love males. Loving maleness is different from praising and rewarding males for living up to sexist-defined notions of male identity. Caring about men because of what they do for us is not the same as loving males for simply being."

And she thinks part of that is feminists finally doing the hard work of convincing men that they can offer something better: "While visionary thinkers have called attention to the way patriarchy hurts men, there has never been an ongoing effort made to address male pain. To this day I hear individual feminist women express their concern for the plight of men within patriarchy, even as they share that they are unwilling to give their energy to help educate and change men. Feminist writer Minnie Bruce Pratt states the position clearly: "How are men going to change? The meeting between two people, where one opposes the other, is the point of change. But I don't want the personal contact. I don't want to do it.... When people talk about not giving men our energies, I agree with that.... They have to deliver themselves." These attitudes, coupled with the negative attitudes of most men toward feminist thinking, meant that there was never a collective, affirming call for boys and men to join feminist movement so that they would be liberated from patriarchy."

Haha oops

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I'm not sure I understand why this matters so much. Everyone here wants to die, and it's the only thing everyone in the community shares in common.

There are a lot of incels out there who have some very concerning views, but if you don't have those views and are just sad about not being able to find a romantic partner (or being celibate) I am sure there are many here who would be very sympathetic towards your struggles. Does that not count as a safe space?

It's difficult to talk about the incel ideology and people who call themselves "incels" broadly like this because no one, especially those who formulate it, can agree what exactly it is. Depending on who you ask the definition can range from a person down on their luck who just wants someone to love them romantically to a violent race-obsessed entitled embodiment of toxic masculinity vowing retribution on society for not getting a 15 minute experience they demand at all costs.

Are you advocating instead for violent misogyny to be given a "safe space" on the forum?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Dude chill wtf

I enjoy writing. It relaxes me

The way you write your comments makes you seem very passive/agressive and condescending. Please be respectful.

It's intentionally tongue in cheek. There's no disrespect intended. But I see how it can come across this way.

I wouldn't be tongue in cheek if not for repeated strawman fallacies and a lack of willingness (perhaps laziness?) to resolve these fallacies, or unpack what this even means.

OP continually referred to themselves as low IQ/unintelligent – too much so to understand the criticisms – but maintained their original argument. I demonstrated that I truly believe in their innate capacity to learn (if they are willing to engage/try).

I became tongue in cheek when they were clearly openly complicit in their ignorance. Perhaps the most dishonest type of ignorance; lacking integrity.

But to not construct my own strawman (to address your referent directly) you are correct, I could have been more compassionate in my response. However, I think by the point I became explicit in my tongue in cheek comments, OP had already repeatedly made the conversation counterproductive and irrelevant. I should have simply stopped engaging.

(Some self reflection to demonstrate more humility, hopefully); The main issue preceding my tongue in cheek comments was my longing for reason which was evidently unattainable. I should have walked away from dis-reason, really, rather than attaching to frustration and aversion to the failed logics. A tolerance for others' ignorance goes a long way.

It is not condescending to acknowledge that inceldom is ignorant and reasonable people should maintain these hierarchies in the name of reifying ethical conduct. Social normativity and deviance play functional and valid roles in condemning harmful ideas. My error was in the tongue and cheek comments, admittedly. Which I admit to demonstrate humility and honesty. I will try to refrain from this style of communication moving forward.

I pray that others in this thread will demonstrate similar commitments but I have little faith at this point. In alignment with tolerance for uncertainty, it is beyond me.

All the best

 

[Adûnâi]

The forum does not "promote" suicide. The forum actually exists as a safe space to express one's own autonomy in relation to life and death.

Honestly, true, as the point about incels is that they can only stop being one via a mutual agreement with another human person. One cannot will himself out of being an incel because it requires an interpersonal connection...

Regarding my choice of words - yeah, it's somewhat crude, but I was speaking from a normie perspective. The same as how so many people in this thread have stubbornly called me a woman-hater even though I don't do it.

Just curious...what is a typical "ask her out" scenario like in 2023-24 for, let's say, a 17-18 year old guy? Prom and stuff still exist. Don't you guys get laid on prom night??

<something something> hypergamy, or go to the incel wiki, no clue. I may be a chad in the rough for all I know (cannot evaluate my physical attractiveness), I have no idea how to start relationships with people of either sex. And regarding proms - now that might be a cultural difference. The final year of _my own_ highhscool I was way too depressed anyway lmao.

'...contrary to mainstream media narratives, incels have lower standards for partners compared to non-incels'

https://www.swansea.ac.uk/press-off...y-reveals-the-dating-psychology-of-incels.php

You know, I could never imagine myself quoting scientific studies. Probably my inner Russian being a stupid barbarian.

bell hooks says "In an anti-patriarchal culture, males do not have to prove their value and worth. They know from birth that simply being gives them value, the right to be cherished and loved."

This is grandiose, thanks for sharing! I dunno whether it's tongue in cheek, valuing males for "simply existing" sounds so hilariously surreal, it's like being the recipient of "wokism"... Even if it benefited me, I'd still recognise that it's unnatural, inefficient, and will lead to a civilisational collapse. Because reality is brutal and built on competition - for resources, be it monetary or genetic.

This is why I cannot "hate women", incidentally - if I were a woman, why would I not chase the proverbial chad myself? Out of a sense of morality? Gimme a break. Judging by my own conduct, I've not become a vegetarian even in this life because meat is nutritious (and tastes good, even though I've always hated mentioning food taste IRL).

I'm not sure I understand why this matters so much. Everyone here wants to die, and it's the only thing everyone in the community shares in common.

Eh, not exactly, there are some adjacent issues such as: 1) chronic pain; 2) monetary difficulties; 3) love issues. The difference being that people with a low quality of life don't get told "you're not entitled to a fatter paycheck".

a violent race-obsessed entitled embodiment of toxic masculinity vowing retribution

<Rules of Nature playing in the background> If you're willing to listen, I will bring this to your attention that incels generally hate white men, they even have a "just be white theory".

reasonable people should maintain these hierarchies in the name of reifying ethical conduct

I have a PHD in philosophy, but it only goes to show that my Ukrainian uni was friendly to people of all IQ ranges, _and_ I was the only student in my entire group for 4 years, so intimate. (I did encounter the word reification on YouTube and some forum a few times, but promptly forgot because the meaning is so ineffable and useless.)

Social normativity and deviance play functional and valid roles in condemning harmful ideas.

Well, my ideas are he least harmful to the edifice of the Western civilisation as it currently stands because I'm an outspoken proponent of incel suicide as the [final...] solution to the incel problem (I'm not even saying it ironically, although for the people who do find copes, more power to them).

'tis but a world of stacies and chads, and the only thing they stand to lose if we kill ourselves are thirsty orbiters.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I have a PHD in philosophy

Yeah, no. Logic is the first thing a philosophy curriculum teaches for undergrads.

You would absolutely know what a strawman fallacy was by the time you got your PhD if you had a philosophy doctorate as you would have been discussing fallacies on research/theoretical papers for many many years.

Reification is from Marxist philosophy which you would also be very familiar with if you studied philosophy. Any serious sociologist, philosopher, or political theorist would know this term, too.

Please do not lie.

That, or Ukrainian philosophy pedagogies should lose all their credibility and accreditation if you're are being truthful as they evidently missed the mark on teaching the most basic foundational material. In which case, your degree isn't truly worth the status you have self-ascribed.

IQ is not relevant. What is relevant is that you can pass the tests on foundational material; tests which would test on logic (soundness, validity, A/B reasoning) heuristics, deduction, induction, a priori vs posterior hypotheses, etc.

Which you have not demonstrated as you've admitted to not knowing these elementary philosophical constructs.

 

[ScubaCTB]

Hoo boy, this is a big topic, with different useful perspectives. To avoid boring everyone with a wall of text, I'll write this under a spoiler. I'm also partly replying to @ScubaCTB

I mean, it's like telling SaSu members to just try harder. But it's not easy to fix root causes of suffering — tons of work, sometimes virtually impossible. Sure, sometimes it's "just psychological" — as if THAT'S easy!

But it is about trying harder. Not sure what SaSu is. But I'll circle back to my first sexual experience, when she was 11 and I was 12. I decided to CTB in 2019. Was drinking everyday (like now AGAIN) and was all ready to go via N since I had it back then. I found her email address and wrote her a long, drunken email telling her about my CTB in the next 24 hours and that I always loved her. I NEVER expected a response. But she wrote me back and, even after 30-plus years of not seeing or talking to her, we picked right up.

I had to get back in the gym, lose 30 pounds of fat and gain my muscle back because we were meeting back up and I wanted her to truly be into me, and I wanted my utmost confidence with her. I also started a new business in that time, to ensure I was a worthy man. It took four months and it was hard. We had lots of phone/internet sex and lots of photo exchanges. We finally met back up in person four months after my first email to her. We were a very strong couple for the next 2 years. I thought to myself there's no way this can be real. She was beautiful, she loved me hardcore, she had no kids, We had so much in common, she was everything. Of course when it seems too good to be true, it is.

Turns out, she was married the whole time, with no intentions of leaving her husband. She just used me as her midlife crisis fantasy f* buddy and fantasy love partner. I was, and still am, so devastated. I'll never get over that. She literally brought me back from the dead. For the next couple years, I tried to find meaning in life. But I realize now that I should have CTB in the year 1999, then again in 2019, and now again in 2024. I will never heal from that experience. I'm too old to go through all that again. FFS, she could have just told me she was married and that she was using me from the beginning (even though she tried rationalizing the whole thing when confronted). It still would have cut deep, but at least the whole relationship would have been honest from the start, But whatever, I need to be dead anyway.

Point is that it definitely requires "trying harder" if you want a woman, regardless of age. Yes, she motivated me to get my shit together and be with her. She's gorgeous. She deserved the best. I tried harder and my HARDEST for four months to get into a mental and physical state to be with her. But modern feminism ultimately destroyed us. The way I found out she was married was so awful, so traumatizing. I was simply never meant to be in this world, never meant to be happy.

Young incels could work on themselves for a year and try dating for a year. Then if it doesn't work, so be it. CTB. It takes effort. But honestly, I'd rather have never known the kind of heartbreak I experienced a couple years ago and also in my mid-20s; and all the heartbreak, pain, suffering since I was in my 20s. Should have been dead two decades ago and avoided all of this.

 

[Adûnâi]

Please do not lie.

That, or Ukrainian philosophy pedagogies should lose all their credibility and accreditation.

The latter. Don't assume you own mileage for foreign lands. The Ukraine is a post-apocalyptic landscape. And we don't even use English - I have no idea how to translate "fallacy" to begin with. So yeah, I have no idea what my diploma (degree?) would even do.

Young incels could work on themselves for a year and try dating for a year.

I kind of wish there were a guide on what to do exactly, in my given cultural milieu...

 

[Rhizomorph1]

The latter. Don't assume you own mileage for foreign lands. The Ukraine is a post-apocalyptic landscape. And we don't even use English - I have no idea how to translate "fallacy" to begin with. So yeah, I have no idea what my diploma (degree?) would even do.



I kind of wish there were a guide on what to do exactly, in my given cultural milieu...

Fair enough. I suppose the degree probably isn't too relevant in this context.

For all intensive purposes of this conversation philosophy should be teaching logic. It is worth it for you to address this philosophical cornerstone from the bottom-up in this thread, given they never taught it to you.

If the issue is a translation error, this could have been handled earlier on much more responsibly and directly vs. saying it is because you have too low of an IQ.

At this point it is challenging to have good faith in the conversation as it is very discursive (unreliable and inconsistent) and contradictory on your part. I hope we can mend these contradictions. I will continue to try to have trust and faith that we can be more consistent, despite these concerns.

Let's both try to be very direct, honest, and pay close attention to the meanings of what is being said to avoid distracting from the teleological (resolution-oriented/logical) flow of the conversation.

Let's both ask ourselves:
- Am I truly responding to what is being said?
- What is the primary referent of their statement?
- Is what I am saying contributing to the teleological direction of the conversation, or is it simply serving my own emotional desires (e.g., aversion/frustration, lack of tolerance/patience, etc)

Emotional regulation, self-reflection, building trust, and a collaborative spirit is vital, and admittedly I am finding it hard to build collaboration as you seem a bit unwilling.

Which is why my past responses were a bit condescending; I was frustrated by the repeated failed logics and the lack of addressing this error. I apologize for letting my frustration get the best of me. I hope moving forward we can both be more productive.

I would ask in return that you fulfill the self-reflection and learning of logical fallacies in your own time. This way we will share the same epistemic (knowledge-creating) tools required to unpack the logics of whether or not inceldom is truly a harmful ideology. (I'm certain that it is)

@ManchildLoser I hope this comment also serves as a testament for my commitment to respectfulness

 

[Adûnâi]

This way we will share the same epistemic (knowledge-creating) tools required to unpack the logics of whether or not inceldom is truly a harmful ideology. (I'm certain that it is)

But that was never the point of this thread. My point was: 1) to whine; 2) to find support; 3) to share ideas about incels and suicide (ranging from blaming their macho sensibilities to commending their copes keeping them alive).

I don't find it conducive to discuss whether the incel ideology is harmful, it's a loaded question. Does such an "ideology" even exist IRL? Isn't it a simply online phenomenon? How does my being a Ukrainian mentalcel even make sense if my country doesn't speak English or treat mental health in a similar manner to America?

If we go by the satanic panic - children have always been kidnapped, but are satanists to blame? Hell, some teenage satanists in Russia have mutilated animals, does it mean American LaVeyan satanists are like that? Did medieval satanists ever exist? The same would go for the incel mirage.

And for all the folks getting hung up on words - feel free to change the terminology to "lonely male virgins", I won't mind (I change terms in my own mind all the time, back from my post-Soviet history books, or even the anti-Voldemort slant in Harry Potter lmao).

 

[ScubaCTB]

I kind of wish there were a guide on what to do exactly, in my given cultural milieu...

You have implied that you are Russian and/or Ukrainian. You also implied that you live in a post-apocalyptic society. As an American, I only know what's going on over there via media (which means lots of lies and BS). But your description of it being "post-apocalyptic" has meaning to me and is likely the most real, most true observation from someone who lives there.

Honestly, you are in a better position for dating than Americans, Brits, Aussies, Canadians, etc. men. In a society like yours, women want protection, love and reassurance. You seem like a good young man. If you erase the last 20 years of humanity with all the internet/phone crap there is now, then you will know what women want. PM me.

I'm a black man, and lived in Moscow for six months WAY back in the 1990s. I had one of my most intense loves and relationships while there...and she didn't really like black people in general, like you believe women don't like incels. She just liked/loved me, and she was gorgeous. Russian/Ukraine women are 75% western and 25% other. They are feminists today, which sucks. But if Ukraine is post-apocalyptic as you describe, a woman simply wants a man for reassurance, protection, provision and love.

Can you kill/trap a rabbit or squirrel, cook it and eat it? Can you get water when it's otherwise unavailable in stores and faucets? Watch youTube videos to learn how. A woman in a post-apocalyptic society wants a man who can provide. Even if you really can't, PRETEND and then really learn when it becomes necessary. But at least know the facts. Be funny and laugh at yourself and the situation. It puts women at ease. You need to make money, which you can do in so many ways these days via internet. You just need to show a REAL woman (not a feminist) that you are resourceful and willing and able to do whatever it takes to support and protect her and any potential children you have. Feminism is evil. But most women are still just women, waiting for their Romeo, Prince Charming, etc. Once she loves you, and expects all that, and you don't really have the skills...well, that is now the time to really learn and master those skills! LOL! Whatever it takes. We are men. We need a woman to feel complete. That is universal in all cultures.

Young men (30 and younger) these days play too many video games and live life online. Just live life OFFLINE for a year, get into the gym, do MAN things (e.g. know how to fish, hunt, etc. to provide food), and Ukraine/Russia women will like you. What you do from there is up to you. It's that simple.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

But that was never the point of this thread. My point was: 1) to whine; 2) to find support; 3) to share ideas about incels and suicide (ranging from blaming their macho sensibilities to commending their copes keeping them alive).

I don't find it conducive to discuss whether the incel ideology is harmful, it's a loaded question. Does such an "ideology" even exist IRL? Isn't it a simply online phenomenon? How does my being a Ukrainian mentalcel even make sense if my country doesn't speak English or treat mental health in a similar manner to America?

If we go by the satanic panic - children have always been kidnapped, but are satanists to blame? Hell, some teenage satanists in Russia have mutilated animals, does it mean American LaVeyan satanists are like that? Did medieval satanists ever exist? The same would go for the incel mirage.

And for all the folks getting hung up on words - feel free to change the terminology to "lonely male virgins", I won't mind (I change terms in my own mind all the time, back from my post-Soviet history books, or even the anti-Voldemort slant in Harry Potter lmao).

Your OP asked a question, I responded with an answer. You called me a hypocrite. My response detailed the false logics of this statement. you've been stuck on those logics since.

You dug this hole. Not me.

If you want to vent then I recommend you don't call people hypocrites when they give you factual answers to the questions you asked while venting.

Maybe you just want sympathy, but people generally don't dish our sympathy when your "venting" is requesting a platform to voice harmful ideas. Stop supporting a harmful ideology and maybe people will sympathize.

I'm happy to talk about male insecurity all day long. I'm personally a male and recognize that men and especially virgin men have a longing for intimacy and feel unwelcome.

Inceldom is different.

I don't find it conducive to discuss whether the incel ideology is harmful, it's a loaded question. Does such an "ideology" even exist IRL? Isn't it a simply online phenomenon?

You can objectively measure the ideological dimensions of a culture/identity through discourse analyses (used in the studies I shared with you previously) or factor analysis (a statistical modelling tool).

Cultural boundaries are certainly dynamic, but they absolutely do exist. This why proximity is relevant (which I mentioned earlier)

It's not a loaded question when empirical research literally begs the question. That's the literal god damn primordial antithesis of a loaded question.

I already said this earlier.

Please commit to responding to what I've already explained. In the name of humility which I've described already as well.

Wheeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Dot]

See, I genuinely have never had this idea, because girl/woman literally refers to whether the said female had sex... And that's supposed to be sexist as hell? A "woman" is literally "a used girl". Hence why I'm electing to use "female" - to avoid the vivid imagery.

Again, as I said previously, I wish the Russo-Ukrainian language had a similar neutral term akin to male/female.

Wll jst add - a defnitn of womn = 'adlt femle' -- = nt abt sexul xpernce - = abt biolgcl mturity

A 'grl' = a chld or smetmes an adlescnt

S/ th/ defnitn tht u wre givn = an ideologcl 1 & = nt accur8 t/ 'officl' defnitns

 

[Rhizomorph1]

If we go by the satanic panic - children have always been kidnapped, but are satanists to blame? Hell, some teenage satanists in Russia have mutilated animals, does it mean American LaVeyan satanists are like that? Did medieval satanists ever exist? The same would go for the incel mirage.

P r o x i m i t y .

I already explained this too.....

 

[SexyIncél]

But it is about trying harder. Not sure what SaSu is. But I'll circle back to my first sexual experience, when she was 11 and I was 12. I decided to CTB in 2019. Was drinking everyday (like now AGAIN) and was all ready to go via N since I had it back then. I found her email address and wrote her a long, drunken email telling her about my CTB in the next 24 hours and that I always loved her. I NEVER expected a response. But she wrote me back and, even after 30-plus years of not seeing or talking to her, we picked right up.

I had to get back in the gym, lose 30 pounds of fat and gain my muscle back because we were meeting back up and I wanted her to truly be into me, and I wanted my utmost confidence with her. I also started a new business in that time, to ensure I was a worthy man. It took four months and it was hard. We had lots of phone/internet sex and lots of photo exchanges. We finally met back up in person four months after my first email to her. We were a very strong couple for the next 2 years. I thought to myself there's no way this can be real. She was beautiful, she loved me hardcore, she had no kids, We had so much in common, she was everything. Of course when it seems too good to be true, it is.

Turns out, she was married the whole time, with no intentions of leaving her husband. She just used me as her midlife crisis fantasy f* buddy and fantasy love partner. I was, and still am, so devastated. I'll never get over that. She literally brought me back from the dead. For the next couple years, I tried to find meaning in life. But I realize now that I should have CTB in the year 1999, then again in 2019, and now again in 2024. I will never heal from that experience. I'm too old to go through all that again. FFS, she could have just told me she was married and that she was using me from the beginning (even though she tried rationalizing the whole thing when confronted). It still would have cut deep, but at least the whole relationship would have been honest from the start, But whatever, I need to be dead anyway.

Point is that it definitely requires "trying harder" if you want a woman, regardless of age. Yes, she motivated me to get my shit together and be with her. She's gorgeous. She deserved the best. I tried harder and my HARDEST for four months to get into a mental and physical state to be with her. But modern feminism ultimately destroyed us. The way I found out she was married was so awful, so traumatizing. I was simply never meant to be in this world, never meant to be happy.

Young incels could work on themselves for a year and try dating for a year. Then if it doesn't work, so be it. CTB. It takes effort. But honestly, I'd rather have never known the kind of heartbreak I experienced a couple years ago and also in my mid-20s; and all the heartbreak, pain, suffering since I was in my 20s. Should have been dead two decades ago and avoided all of this.

Yeah, SaSu is this website you're on. ("Sanctioned Suicide")

Ouch, I'm sorry for that! I truly hope you can somehow recover, because what you did was badass. Levelling up like that. Building your body, mind & context

Did you click on the "spoiler" in my post? I believe I agreed with you: even if you manage to pull gals reliably, you now have a new set of problems. After all, we're all propagandized consumerist assholes — including the gals you get

So redpillers say you're not done once you get the gals. You need to wield enough bargaining power so they won't act like narcissistic monsters. But rather treat you with basic dignity, respect & care. If she doesn't, fine, many others would loooove your time & attention

It probably doesn't have to be this way; there's a few non-sociopathic feminists who actually care about male pain & want a society where men don't have to fight to be loved. But most feminists don't give enough of a fuuuuuck. So they reap the manosphere backlash. Suckers

I think it's not too late for you? Women have a huge disadvantage: limited shelf-life. Guys like you don't. Consider these top redpill advisors: Orion Taraban, Fresh&Fit, Alexander Grace

If the people around you are too culturally psychopathic, maybe consider other cultures that actually treat guys with basic decency & respect

There's one big trap: they say men view women, as women view children. This may explain all the misogyny — imagine a mom getting heartbroken by sociopathic children. Her heart will harden, or she'll die

But that was never the point of this thread. My point was: 1) to whine; 2) to find support; 3) to share ideas about incels and suicide (ranging from blaming their macho sensibilities to commending their copes keeping them alive).

Yeah, it's good to focus on real problems, not distract ourselves with fancy terminology. Philosophy's generally about what underlies things. What underlies all these problems, so we can solve them?

 

[LifeCanBeCruel]

As angry and delusional as most incels sound, there must be something wrong happening within society that produces so many. As someone who is ugly (actually ugly, not just unattractive), I'm well aware of how certain people can be discriminated against based on social status, and then for most people to gaslight you when you speak out against the unfair treatment. I'm not talking about sex or finding a partner here, I'm talking about everyday good-will and courtesy given to one another. So I don't know if incel ideology is completely wrong, maybe there's some truth to it.

 

[Adûnâi]

A woman in a post-apocalyptic society wants a man who can provide.

Thanks for the response! But by post-apocalyptic I meant the general post-Soviet ruin. This current war is absolutely irrelevant, especially in my part of the country. Any girl can just emigrate to Slovakia, if the bus adverts are to be believed. So there is almost as much feminism as in the West... with the caveat that more women have children in their 20s, but again, not too sure about the statistics.

To be fair, I will admit that I have absolutely nothing to provide, I'm an autistic eternal student that has never worked a day in his life. It's kind of a good reason for a suicide, haha. My mom says the war is gonna end one day, and I will be able to leave my school... But it's kind of a pipe dream. And I will be old then, almost 30. Hence my hope for AI, it might advance sufficiently to sate my human connection needs.

protect her and any potential children you have.

Having children is paedophilia in my book, and it's definitely not part of my sexual fantasies. This is that one part where I would be way too disgusted to go on with it. Another argument against vanilla sex, too.

Young men (30 and younger) these days play too many video games and live life online. Just live life OFFLINE for a year, get into the gym, do MAN things

Ironically, I'm too lazy to play computer games, I'm worse - merely watching VODs on YouTube. Incidentally, I've just bought a few dozen games to become a gamer first... Kind of like Lenin introduced NEP before Stalin's collectivisation - can't jump from feudalism all the way to socialism skipping capitalism (I'm not a Marxist, it's a metaphor).

Please commit to responding

I'm sorry, but this is one of those rarest moments in my life where I can afford to ignore a social interaction. Please, let's not talk, alright?

S/ th/ defnitn tht u wre givn = an ideologcl 1 & = nt accur8 t/ 'officl' defnitns

Well, to clear my point, my post-Soviet Ukrainian school gave me to read a Soviet novel on Roxelana by Paul Zagrebelny (1980) which described her sex as a transition from girlhood to womanhood - maybe that's where my impression comes from? I had no Internet access until I was 15, and I had no sexual education. (I even remember looking up my thick dictionaries for lewd terms, I'm that oldschool, feels like how Mark Twain described 19th century adolescents sifting through the Bible for raunchy scenes).

https://uk.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Роксолана_(роман)&useskin=vector

Also, feel free to check the Oxford Dictionary 1933 edition - which uses such terms as "maiden" and "unmarried" (and considering their puritanical norms of the time, it might support my thesis).

As angry and delusional as most incels sound, there must be something wrong happening within society that produces so many. As someone who is ugly (actually ugly, not just unattractive), I'm well aware of how certain people can be discriminated against based on social status, and then for most people to gaslight you when you speak out against the unfair treatment. I'm not talking about sex or finding a partner here, I'm talking about everyday good-will and courtesy given to one another. So I don't know if incel ideology is completely wrong, maybe there's some truth to it.

Thanks! And I feel for you. Although I will admit one thing that might rile up incels against me - there was one time in May 2023 when I had to ask a random girl in my uni about whether she was from my group (I confuse people's faces), and I didn't see disgust in her response. Another point - in October 2023, a random girl said hello to me when I was sitting in the uni corridor. These are things that might get me banned off the incel forum... But again, I'm clueless on how to capitalise on any advantages I might have.

(Although these are legit the only things that have happened, yes, I'm scraping the barrel.)

 

[ScubaCTB]

Thanks for the response! But by post-apocalyptic I meant the general post-Soviet ruin. This current war is absolutely irrelevant, especially in my part of the country. Any girl can just emigrate to Slovakia, if the bus adverts are to be believed. So there is almost as much feminism as in the West... with the caveat that more women have children in their 20s, but again, not too sure about the statistics.

So the "Ukraine War" really isn't a big deal huh? US media talk about it all the time. But most smart people know that the whole thing is a money laundering scheme for US and UK politicians and billionaires. Honestly, and not to be a dick, but if Russia wanted to destroy Ukraine, it could in a heartbeat. And it has not. So that tells me something. You don't feel war at all over there?

To be fair, I will admit that I have absolutely nothing to provide, I'm an autistic eternal student that has never worked a day in his life. It's kind of a good reason for a suicide, haha. My mom says the war is gonna end one day, and I will be able to leave my school... But it's kind of a pipe dream. And I will be old then, almost 30. Hence my hope for AI, it might advance sufficiently to sate my human connection needs.

I get the autism thing and I'm not minimizing it. But you haven't even tried in life. You've never worked and earned a paycheck, or did a business venture and got a check? What are you...21-22? At least try for a year, man. You obviously can communicate with people, based on your writing here, despite autism. You will feel proud and good, like a man, when you earn your first paycheck. Just don't be a wage slave and tax slave forever. But at least try and see what it's like to be an adult, earning money and paying bills, before CTB. Just my humble opinion.

Having children is paedophilia in my book, and it's definitely not part of my sexual fantasies. This is that one part where I would be way too disgusted to go on with it. Another argument against vanilla sex, too.

What is "vanilla sex?" LOL! I hear you. No way I would bring a kid into this world in 2024. But I should have gotten married and had kids and what not in the 1990s, before I became this suicidal POS that I am now. You a virgin? And yes, if you paid for it, you are still a virgin. Again you're too young to just give up. You have to get a phone number and earned p*s*y at least once before CTB. Maybe that will change your mindset.

Ironically, I'm too lazy to play computer games, I'm worse - merely watching VODs on YouTube. Incidentally, I've just bought a few dozen games to become a gamer first... Kind of like Lenin introduced NEP before Stalin's collectivisation - can't jump from feudalism all the way to socialism skipping capitalism (I'm not a Marxist, it's a metaphor).

I dig the metaphor! Studied Lenin and Marx a lot in college (history minor).