Discussion Safe space for incel suicide

[betternever2havbeen]

This is much more constructive, thank you! If you're willing to help with ideas, here's my position. I have never talked to any of my peers in my life, have never established any social connections, relationships, circles. I have no idea where, when or with whom to do it. I go to school - I go home, and that's my entire life. I literally have no idea what normal people do in their spare time, where or how they socialise.

My ideas have been joining Jehovah's Witnesses, other people have suggested approaching/stalking people in parks/libraries (wtf), or joining a dancing club (eh, not sure whether they exist in my area and this time - again, where do I even look for? On Facebook?).

If you're open to advice that's great. Means you've not fallen down the incel hole completely....I've actually talked to a couple and they didn't want my advice because they don't listen to women (and then they wonder why they can't get laid lol) I guess in general a lot of guys don't really think advice from women works so that's fair enough I suppose...but everyone will tell you it's just putting yourself out there as much as possible.

If you have any hobbies that might be a good place to start. I don't think you should join the Jehovah's witnesses unless you have a calling for that. Don't know much about them but seems like it'd be a bad idea. Yeah approaching random women in parks etc. wouldn't really work. You don't have guy friends either? I don't really get how you went all through school without talking to classmates, how is that possible? I was shy AF but somehow managed to make a few friends. Didn't your parents have friends that had kids your age that you grew up with? You never talked to a classmate you sat next to or had to work in groups with other students? Never?!

Generic normie socialisation is what I have lost on. Of course, I drew the ticket - I was born.

Well it's not easy to for some people to socialise but it can be learned.

Umm, I'm not a typical incel because I'm autistic, not physically deformed. Incels approach women, I don't know how even to do that. All I know is that I'm not supposed to shout in my uni corridor lmao.

Aren't a lot of incels autistic though? They struggle with socialising-of course some are not attractive either but mostly I would say it's down to lack of social skills and/or lack of effort put into appearance even though not unattractive facially.

Well, just for instance, your quote, 'They seem to think women should be pursuing them instead and they are usually incredibly entitled, thinking they deserve the hottest women-they would look down on the ones that weren't attractive-I believe everyone gets reduced to a number, and they only want 9s and 10s', is contrary to findings in a 2023 study published in The Journal of Sex Research:

'...contrary to mainstream media narratives, incels have lower standards for partners compared to non-incels'

https://www.swansea.ac.uk/press-off...y-reveals-the-dating-psychology-of-incels.php

That's interesting-I was right about them not understanding what women look for though-Findings from the study, which surveyed 151 incels and 149 non-incels from across the globe, reveal that incels make fundamental errors about what females look for in a romantic partner. They overestimate the importance of physical attractiveness and financial resources, while underestimating the importance women place on intelligence, kindness, humour, and loyalty.

 

[Adûnâi]

Honestly, and not to be a dick, but if Russia wanted to destroy Ukraine, it could in a heartbeat. And it has not.

Some Russian conspiracy theorists consider Putin a CIA agent that's trying to demilitarise Russia before a NATO nuclear attack/invasion - that's why the Russian army is not building hangars for its aircraft, and why they haven't destroyed the Dnieper bridges.

You don't feel war at all over there?

Only men over 27 are mobilised (me xd), but I'm a student, and students are youthful, so I don't see any difference. Again, it's not like I have any social connections to find out who went to the east and died.

But you haven't even tried in life. You've never worked and earned a paycheck, or did a business venture and got a check? What are you...21-22? At least try for a year, man.

Don't worry, I am incredibly thick-skinned. So, the issue is that I had no idea what to do in life, I was just rotting in my room peacefully, sometimes getting a worthless Ukrainian degree. Now I cannot work due to the war (hey, it's relevant for once).

You obviously can communicate with people, based on your writing here, despite autism.

I don't understand how to build connections with people IRL. Yes, I can communicate. But only when I have a specific goal in mind. I did try to do it in May 2023 when my uni group was going to the park and I elected to walk beside my classmate and talked to him about CSGO (which I never even played, but I could talk). But then, what's next? (How do I get that guy into bed, #nohomo xd?)

And yes, if you paid for it, you are still a virgin. Again you're too young to just give up. You have to get a phone number and earned p*s*y at least once before CTB.

Unfortunately, prostitution is forbidden here in the Ukraine. I wish I lived in Austria where it exists - I would at least have an opportunity to try intersexual relations in some fashion. Hell, even in America where it's illegal dominatrices exist, and the famous ones I know of charge 750 USD per hour - that's probably nothing if I had a stable income.

You don't have guy friends either? I don't really get how you went all through school without talking to classmates, how is that possible? I was shy AF but somehow managed to make a few friends.

I literally never open my mouth unless asked by a teacher - then I go all the way in, and have no trouble. But how do I "make friends"? During breaks? Yes, I'm that clueless. Would Ukrainian military shrinks help? My mom is trying to get one.

Not too sure about the hobbies. No, I have absolutely nothing. Weave camo nets for the military maybe? Even then, I wouldn't know how to communicate there and make connections.

Didn't your parents have friends that had kids your age that you grew up with? You never talked to a classmate you sat next to or had to work in groups with other students? Never?!

Nope! I'm literally a Mowugli child (only Russians read that book), or a Mennonite in LA. There's like my cousin who is 5 years younger, so I was disgusted by his childishness. And there was my crush with whose mom my mom talked, and we even went on a picnic when I was 10... Where again I never opened my mouth and was super scared (but it was the last time I would see her, so I agreed).

Findings from the study, which surveyed 151 incels and 149 non-incels from across the globe, reveal that incels make fundamental errors about what females look for in a romantic partner. They overestimate the importance of physical attractiveness and financial resources, while underestimating the importance women place on intelligence, kindness, humour, and loyalty.

But how does one even measure female preferences? I'd be a terrible defender of the Incel Blackpill Theory, I would just reply that "non-chads are not considered men in women's eyes", but it's kind of bogus, AND is even irrelevant to my personal issue (not that I'd shoo away physically deformed incels here).

From that paper:
> An area of particular concern is how those incels who do not wish to engage with the mating market respond to their celibate situation. Three rhyming domains describe the variety of incel responses to their celibacy: hope, cope, and rope (Sparks et al., Citation2022). Rope refers to suicide, a theme which pervades incel forums (Daly & Laskovtsov, Citation2021). In terms of coping strategies, incels appear to engage in either solitary (watching TV, lifting weights) or potentially more problematic practices (e.g., using drugs, excessive pornography use). Healthier coping mechanisms (e.g., positive reframing, seeking emotional support) were more commonly practiced among non-incel men, while incels reported higher levels of problematic strategies such as behavioral disengagement and self-blame (Sparks et al., Citation2022).

> It remains to be demonstrated whether incels' frustration in the mating market stems from high standards for casual sexual encounters that they are nonetheless excluded from due to their lower mate-value.

 

[SexyIncél]

That's interesting-I was right about them not understanding what women look for though-Findings from the study, which surveyed 151 incels and 149 non-incels from across the globe, reveal that incels make fundamental errors about what females look for in a romantic partner. They overestimate the importance of physical attractiveness and financial resources

While there's some truth to this, I suggest seeing it a bit like anorexics. Such women hyper-fixate on their appearance in a way that even damages it

When we observe exotic people doing odd paradoxical things, it's useful to ask: Under what logics do their actions make sense?

When you desire someone, it's not just about getting that partner to go shopping/chatting/boinking/etc. Some anthropologists say it's about fantasy & recognition — including imaginatively reconstructing yourself. And that process is fraught with dangers of destroying the relationship or having terrible conflicts

So thinking about incels... well, many men care about being beautiful, in their masculine way — stirring a gal's pleasure & dreams & excitement & adoration. A form of competence. It's more than just getting some gf

I sometimes think about asking transgender people about their dysmorphia. To see if it's similar to incel body-alienation

There's no doubt more factors. Like authoritarian mothers or whatever

 

[Adûnâi]

hyper-fixate on their appearance in a way that even damages it

So, are you rejecting the Great Incel Theory of Everything (incl. the chin bones)?

stirring a gal's pleasure & dreams & excitement & adoration. A form of competence. It's more than just getting some gf

Ditto, being useful. I have come to compare love to sublimating my innate political strivings which have no outlet. Yes, in that order.

Like authoritarian mothers or whatever

Could you tell me more? My mom is my only conversation partner, but she's giving me free reign and enforces my every desire (aside from incest which I'm not into and Russophilia which I'm into, lol). But I hate this fixation on mothers. Armchair shrinks seem to explain the same outcomes via opposite conditions - like how both authoritarian and liberal parents beget liberals.

 

[SexyIncél]

So, are you rejecting the Great Incel Theory of Everything (incl. the chin bones)?

Haha, kinda reminds me of marxists: reducing everything to the material level. Incel materialism?

But seriously, I can't reject a theory until I know what questions it's supposed to answer...

Could you tell me more? My mom is my only conversation partner, but she's giving me free reign and enforces my every desire (aside from incest which I'm not into and Russophilia which I'm into, lol). But I hate this fixation on mothers. Armchair shrinks seem to explain the same outcomes via opposite conditions - like how both authoritarian and liberal parents beget liberals.

Yeah I agree with your point on pop freudianism

Sorry, I was absurdly unclear, referring to a totally different topic: the violence that forms men & the resulting rage:

Many teenage boys have violent contempt and rage for a patriarchal mom because they understand that in the world outside the home, sexism renders her powerless; he is pissed that she has power over him at home. He does not see her autocratic rule in the home as legitimate power. As a consequence, he may be enraged at his mom for using the tactics of psychological terrorism to whip him into shape and yet respond with admiration toward the male peer or authority figure who deploys similar tactics. In patriarchal culture boys learn early that the authority of the mother is limited, that her power comes solely from being a caretaker of patriarchy. When she colludes with adult male abuse of her son, she (or later a symbolic mother substitute) will be the target of his violence.

Years ago the television show The Incredible Hulk was the favorite of many boys. It featured a mild-mannered scientist who turned into an angry green monster whenever he felt intense emotions. A sociologist interviewing boys about their passion for this show asked them what they would do if they had the power of the Hulk. They replied that they would "smash their mommies." In her groundbreaking work The Mermaid and the Minotaur feminist theorist Dorothy Dinnerstein highlighted the extent to which boys respond to the autocratic power of mothers with rage. Like many feminist researchers today, she insisted that male engagement with parenting was needed to break this projection onto the mother as an all-powerful figure who must be rebelled against and in some cases destroyed.

 

[Adûnâi]

Sorry, I was absurdly unclear, referring to a totally different topic: the violence that forms men & the resulting rage:

This is cute ("patriarchal mom"?), but probably irrelevant to my case. I always used my mom as a weapon and a tool to help me, be it to ward off the girls who bullied me when I was 16, or to cook me meals when I'm 25. I may be overdependent on her, but then again, I have no inspiration to change my ways as I don't live in a totalitarian society where I can adhere to the Party officials or Tribe chieftains and get a waifu in return.

Admittedly, I might be missing your point entirely as it might have been a detour on your part. But then again, I have absolutely no understanding of gruesome child-rearing techniques where the mom is not her son's bitch, hence cannot relate. (Funnily enough, my sexual fantasies are the opposite with me submitting to a worthy partner.)

 

[casual_existence]

Reviving dead topic because I love zombies.
There's a few questions that I would like to ask you to understand you better.
What do you determine to be an incel?
How does it apply to your experience?
Are you actively being hurt by identifying as an incel from an external source (e.g. getting beat up by the police or somebody or getting bullied on this forum)?
I would also like to add that safe spaces are in my view a place not for free discussion of a specific domain. They're for temporary safety from some danger to you or your group.
A forum is for discussion of some domain and its subdomains.
If you want to freely discuss the intersection between incels and suicidiality then it would be better to have a forum. However no one will stop you from discussing these issues as long as you don't express hate towards someone or a group.
If you're looking for safety then filter your DMs, report people or publicly denounce them.
Remember NO ONE can do anything that you are unwilling to do for yourself.

 

[Adûnâi]

Are you actively being hurt by identifying as an incel from an external source (e.g. getting beat up by the police or somebody or getting bullied on this forum)?

You're probably correct in that safe space would carry such connotations. I wasn't thinking particularly hard. I do consider the general attitudes towards incels as constituting bullying - but I have only ever been its target in this very thread because I'm that anti-social. Others could expand a myriad times better than me.

What do you determine to be an incel?

I will admit that a "virgin" is a more apt term, it's just that using it to refer to males sounds ridiculous to my ears, and because I tend to use the most extreme version of the concept to cover all that goes before it. The way I talk to my mom about sex - while never having talked to a human being before, let alone commit handholding.

How does it apply to your experience?

While I never cared and actively despised my peers all my life, I'm 27 now, and while I still cannot imagine myself bearing with normies, I now understand that I will never experience handholding either. And I wish I were able to. So while it's not an immediate pressure, it does give me that inspiration for killing myself.

Deep down, I'd like to partake in politics, but there's nothing of the sort. So the second best thing would be to offer the passion of my heart to a worthy waifu - but they are unattainable in my current genetic abomination of a state, and a mirage anyway.

Sure, I could go the detached Buddhist route, but why bother?

 

[ijustwishtodie]

You don't have guy friends either? I don't really get how you went all through school without talking to classmates, how is that possible? I was shy AF but somehow managed to make a few friends. Didn't your parents have friends that had kids your age that you grew up with? You never talked to a classmate you sat next to or had to work in groups with other students? Never?!

I'm not OP nor do I really want a relationship but I can answer all of these questions with "yes", unfortunately. I don't think I'm the only one either but people like me who went through the entirety of school without talking to people do exist. Just like OP, I also really talked in school whenever the teacher asked me a question (or for attendance) and that's it really. I've been so quiet and so invisible during school to where the majority of the teachers didn't even know my name despite doing attendance with me responding on my name. I didn't understand it at all as the teachers did acknowledge the names of other students who were quiet in class but they couldn't remember my name

Honestly, I never really understood how people didn't understand me having lived a life like this. I used to vent about how lonely I am and nobody really understood because I could tell that they implicitly kept the idea in their mind that I have at least interacted with school peers back in school and made at least a single acquaintance. I guess the only reason why I'm even replying here is because maybe, for the first time in my life, just maybe somebody will actually understand the extent of my loneliness. I mean.. is it really that easy for everybody to have made a friend back in school? For me it was impossible

 

[ChildrensITV]

Most of the male-spaces on Reddit - MGTOW, Incels, even ones that have nothing to do with dating, but are centred around politics popular with men - have been banned. There are subreddits like FemaleDatingStrategy, GenderCritical, Feminism, Sendica and ForeverAloneWomen to cater to women.

r/ForeverAloneWomen discusses not being able to get a boyfriend. The mods encourage them to turn off their DMs so that they don't get approached by men in DMs, so you can never actually speak to a FAW to find out if she would like to date you. I understand that some men do harass women in DMs though.

It's dynamics like this why we can't understand eachother so it is just easier if a man can find a bunch of threads that pertain to his "dating" life easily and a woman can do the same. I've been in mixed spaces (Discord servers) for "femcels" and incels. It just doesn't work. The men beg for attention from women, the women have conversations amongst themselves. It's just frustrating and a waste of time.

By the way, I don't feel entitled to a girlfriend. As much as I want a girl to love, I know I am not goodlooking and don't expect anything. I message a lot of women on dating apps and I can't blame them for not picking an ugly option. All I am saying is that, when it comes to people who I can relate to, (nongoodlooking) men share more experiences with me.

 

[Adûnâi]

I've been so quiet and so invisible during school to where the majority of the teachers didn't even know my name despite doing attendance with me responding on my name. I didn't understand it at all as the teachers did acknowledge the names of other students who were quiet in class but they couldn't remember my name

Wow, that's incredible! I would have been the same if I hadn't lucked out with my mom who talks to me - and I was always proactive with teachers. This is why I think I might have put in some effort if it had been required of me - I only did what I assumed to be in the official rules, and nothing more.

subreddits like FemaleDatingStrategy, GenderCritical, Feminism, Sendica and ForeverAloneWomen to cater to women. r/ForeverAloneWomen discusses not being able to get a boyfriend.

What horrified me a few weeks ago was learning that FAW bans all males from their subreddit - never before had I been faced with such blatant sexism, and nobody apparently bats an eye.

P.S. This thread was created for incels to talk about how suicidal inceldom makes them, in theory. Because I can't really get the same result on the incel forum. This sounds like I'm a researcher, but I'm just autistic, and want to read people who feel the same as I do. The incel forum is all stoic and copey.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Wow, that's incredible! I would have been the same if I hadn't lucked out with my mom who talks to me - and I was always proactive with teachers. This is why I think I might have put in some effort if it had been required of me - I only did what I assumed to be in the official rules, and nothing more.


What horrified me a few weeks ago was learning that FAW bans all males from their subreddit - never before had I been faced with such blatant sexism, and nobody apparently bats an eye.

P.S. This thread was created for incels to talk about how suicidal inceldom makes them, in theory. Because I can't really get the same result on the incel forum. This sounds like I'm a researcher, but I'm just autistic, and want to read people who feel the same as I do. The incel forum is all stoic and copey.

Well, men are seen as the troublesome gender that people need protecting from - because we're not people. Any male-only space is seen as sexist. Any female-only is seen as a protected environment free from judgment, mansplaining, patriarchy, harassment, creeps, etc. Nobody minds oilrigs or rubbish-collectors being male-only.

I have spoken to women on dating apps, who reply reluctantly or who say "Go on a date with you? Umm, I'll have to see if I'm busy". What women don't realize is that, for that brief period where they entertain us, that is lifefuel for us. It can make us want to postpone suicide to believe (mistakenly lol) that a woman cares about you.

Not that it is a woman's duty to give us lifefuel. I wish a woman talking to me didn't give me a reason not to CTB. But that's just how men are built.

 

[allwrong]

I can't even relate to the incel shit. When you're autistic and mentally ill enough like me it doesn't matter if you've ever been in relationships with women you find attractive. So by the incel logic, even if that automatically makes me a 'fakecel 7/10 minimum' or whatever, it doesn't mean anything. Women were never gonna be the cure for my problems, because my problem is a sort of deeply rooted superiority/inferiority complex where I'm never satisfied with myself.

Something strongly makes me believe, when I read all this incel shit, that the average incel has the same problem, but is still stuck in the phase where he thinks a woman would solve it all. No fucker: your problem is an insatiable narcissism. You wouldn't be content even if you had a '10/10 Stacy' by your side and she'd leave you after trying to love you. It's over-analytical narcissism all the way down for you. Take it from me.

 

[Adûnâi]

I can't even relate to the incel shit. When you're autistic and mentally ill enough like me it doesn't matter if you've ever been in relationships with women you find attractive. So by the incel logic, even if that automatically makes me a 'fakecel 7/10 minimum' or whatever, it doesn't mean anything. Women were never gonna be the cure for my problems, because my problem is a sort of deeply rooted superiority/inferiority complex where I'm never satisfied with myself.

Thanks for the input! First of all, most incels seem to be normie, psychically-wise, they're just too facially-deformed and/or short in height.

Second, it's absolutely fine to be a volcel, and more power to you if you are disinterested in relationships! Pretty sure many would envy you. I too was like that - rather detached from my peers and IRL, I barely kept count of my age. Hell, for 2.5 years I literally never left my room - and then my mom enrolled me in a uni where I turned out to be the only student in a group (to her chagrin).

Still, with time, I feel more unfortunate at not having a partner to talk to, or have sex with, or getting headpats from. Love is an intense emotion, and after experiencing it in a simp way randomly in May 2023, I now know what I've been missing out on.

Thankfully, AI might come soon enough.

 

[Napoleon]

are u sure the incel community is averse to suicide? in looksmax giving the ropemax advice to so called "truecels" is common place

Lol, nobody says that besides TikTok retards.

You seem respectful and I can empathize with your longing for community & connection so I'll be diplomatic despite taking reasonable and hardline opposition to incel ideology.

The reason you probably won't find a "safe space" for incels here is precisely because incels ideology is harmful. The collective cultural and material boundaries of the ideology transcend just being "involuntary celibate". It is awash with sexism, objectification, supporting poor emotional regulation that redirects the problem to harmful behaviors towards women. Downstream, these ideas foster permissiveness towards serious and egregious abuses of human rights targeting women.

Many of these abuses are the source cause of many women's traumas and illnesses that result in them being here. Thus, an incel "safe space" would be directly contradictory to creating a safe space for victims of female-targeted sexual abuse, domestic violence, etc. It could be likened to saying pedophiles, rapists, etc. need a safe space for pro-pedophilic beliefs simply because they are ostracized. Unlike the marginalization of women which is unwarranted, pedophilia is reasonably ostracized for practical reasons.

Social normativity vs. deviance both have practical and harmful applications depending on the referent culture/identity being tagged as normal or deviant. Suicide is probably incorrectly deviant. Pedophilia and incels are reasonably tagged deviant.

A "safe space" for incels is thus not aligned with the forum's philosophy or values which are principally harm reductive (including the harms of incel culture), compassionate, and providing psycho-social-spiritual support in dying with dignity. The very cause of suicidality is at stake because of incel ideology.

Dying with dignity should not have to involve victims creating a false "safe space" for the cultural aggressor of said violence. The power dynamic here would be incredibly problematic. It misconstrues the utility underlining actual safe spaces who are the victims rather than the aggressors.

Even if you are not directly engaged in these harms tangibly, you are objectively complicit in your ideological support for a culture which has committed these acts disproportionately, based on measurable real-world data tracking the social outcomes of numerous people who identify with and act on behalf of incels.

Respectfully, if you wish to be reasonably accepted here, myself – and hopefully most of SaSu – expect you to abandon problem cultures that have resulted in many of our collective reasons (sufferings) for being here.

May you find peace in living or dying
- Rhizo

Or... maybe just lonely people want a safe-space to talk to each other about their struggles with romantic & social life? You can be an incel without wanting to rape and murder women, you can be an incel by simply not being able to get laid. And seriously, why are you comparing people who can't get laid to rapists & murderers? It's not the same thing at all.

By the way, I have a question for you, please don't take this as a dig at you or a misogynistic comment., but are you a woman? I simply ask for context on your POV.

 

[Napoleon]

We as a society are moving forward with MAID laws so despite the reasonably controversial nature of the right to die movement, it has absolutely valid latent rhetoric.

Incels and adjacent ideologies do not.

Enough said. The asymmetrical validation I am allocating is therefore valid on these principles that we should all be aware of by this point.

They are not the same.

For some reason I feel like committing suicide is a lot more serious of a deed than simply being unable to get laid, but to each their own.

 

[Napoleon]

"incel" is stupid as is it's ideology. "Involuntarily celibate" implies that you are being deprived of something you are owed. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

No one owes you sex or a relationship or a even their time of day. Incels can't accept that so they pass themselves off as oppressed. It's lame, at best.

It doesn't, really. Saying that you are "involuntarily born" does not imply that I deserve death, it's simply a fact of life.

I'm really tired of default modes of learning which assume dictionary definitions without applying sociological imagination nor semantic/cultural mapping of connected ideas.

Dictionary definitions don't account for cultural connections with real-world behaviours, flexible discourses, etc. which may be far more problematic than a dictionary definition can suggest.

Cultural analysis of these loaded terms – which have multiple dimensions not included in dictionary definitions – are required to make a reasonable assessment of these terms.

Moral of the story: don't take dictionary definitions for granted as they can disguise harmful cultures by oversimplifying them.

So when one says they're an incel they're immediately the next Elliot Rodger and a danger to society? What a gross confinement. Please, pray tell, what is a better term for incel then?

You're missing the point. If you go by a dictionary definition many more people would identify as an incel.

Wouldn't that be best? To reclaim the term and make it so that it's no longer a word of hatred, but that of brotherhood in romantic failure?

Even if you don't hate women, if hitler, Stalin, and Mao showed up to your Christmas party and you welcomed them with open arms, you couldn't defend your Christmas party just because you never personallh invited them. It's still a Nazi Christmas party, and you are complicit by being at the party celebrating with them.

Hahahaha what? What the fuck are you talking about man? I'm sure there's at least one closeted-Nazi in any given internet forum, because that's just how the internet is. Therefore, by your logic, everyone on the internet is a Nazi because they're in the same space as them. If you're trying to imply that OP is trying to make a safe-space for bigoted women-haters or whatever because he wants a place where he can discuss both suicidal thoughts and inceldom together, I don't know what you're on about, especially considering OP stated he doesn't like the more toxic forums.

 

[Adûnâi]

So when one says they're an incel they're immediately the next Elliot Rodger and a danger to society? What a gross confinement.

Why not? If feminists in power decided virgins had to die. I'd accept this duty to die gladly. The same about Hitlerians in power. Just don't make me work for them or bootcamp with filthy males like in the Ukrainian army. Oh, and propagandise this so that my mom doesn't get upset at my rotting corpse. Win-win.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Lol, nobody says that besides TikTok retards.

Or... maybe just lonely people want a safe-space to talk to each other about their struggles with romantic & social life? You can be an incel without wanting to rape and murder women, you can be an incel by simply not being able to get laid. And seriously, why are you comparing people who can't get laid to rapists & murderers? It's not the same thing at all.

By the way, I have a question for you, please don't take this as a dig at you or a misogynistic comment., but are you a woman? I simply ask for context on your POV.

1. I never denied that
2. It's not relevant.

Enjoy your day :)

For some reason I feel like committing suicide is a lot more serious of a deed than simply being unable to get laid, but to each their own.

I agree. My comment is consistent with such if you examine it's denotations.

It doesn't, really. Saying that you are "involuntarily born" does not imply that I deserve death, it's simply a fact of life.

So when one says they're an incel they're immediately the next Elliot Rodger and a danger to society? What a gross confinement. Please, pray tell, what is a better term for incel then?

Wouldn't that be best? To reclaim the term and make it so that it's no longer a word of hatred, but that of brotherhood in romantic failure?

Hahahaha what? What the fuck are you talking about man? I'm sure there's at least one closeted-Nazi in any given internet forum, because that's just how the internet is. Therefore, by your logic, everyone on the internet is a Nazi because they're in the same space as them. If you're trying to imply that OP is trying to make a safe-space for bigoted women-haters or whatever because he wants a place where he can discuss both suicidal thoughts and inceldom together, I don't know what you're on about, especially considering OP stated he doesn't like the more toxic forums.

I never said anything of such re: Elliot Rogers, etc.

If you read the thread history, I've mentioned straw man & red herring fallacies a lot.

You're welcome to add yourself to the list :)

Good luck on your journey. We're all learning one step at a time

 

[SexyIncél]

Wouldn't that be best? To reclaim the term and make it so that it's no longer a word of hatred, but that of brotherhood in romantic failure?

To forestall a long argument... back then, the person you're responding to asked mods to ban incel speech. They refused. It seemed the problem was resolved peacefully. Incels get to discuss in a nice forum free from misogyny, and now all's puppies & rainbows

After all, incels founded SaSu — and made sure everyone could speak. Trans people, Palestinians, disgruntled postal workers — any group who's hated & scapegoated

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I jokingly came up with the term "intimacel" to mean something a little deeper. I'm sure sex is as easy as buying candy from a candy store for some people but for me it's more about the physical and emotional intimacy that I'm completely unable to get for one reason or another. It's not gonna catch on, but it sums up how I feel a little better I guess.

As far as I can tell, this site is far more tolerant towards incels than some other spaces as long as they're here to commit suicide I guess…and as long as they don't act like the stereotypical kind of incel. Maybe it's not a full on "safe space" for us incels but I prefer things the way things are here rather than have the site serve as some echo chamber.

 

[The Schizoid]

There are two communities - the incel forum, and this forum. What I hate is that the incel forum seems to be averse to suicide, whereas this forum is averse to the incel ideology.

I wish I had a safe space to discuss the question of incel suicide with fellow incels and without a fear of offending anyone...

To start it off, I will say that incels generally find ways to cope - either with East Eurasian cartoons, or computer games. My personal cope is AI chat bots, but they're still rather trash and stop helping after a while.

Incel ideology has got nothing to do with suicide.

 

[Napoleon]

To forestall a long argument... back then, the person you're responding to asked mods to ban incel speech. They refused. It seemed the problem was resolved peacefully. Incels get to discuss in a nice forum free from misogyny, and now all's puppies & rainbows

After all, incels founded SaSu — and made sure everyone could speak. Trans people, Palestinians, disgruntled postal workers — any group who's hated & scapegoated

Hahaha, I didn't even need to click the wikipedia link to see what the postal thing was referencing. Postal 2 is my favorite video game, so I know the lore behind the term "going postal". Seems this fellow is a bit disgruntled toward lonely people, which is ironic because they're on a suicide forum.

 

[Adûnâi]

Incel ideology has got nothing to do with suicide.

Only because most incels are failed normies, and think like ones. Breaking one taboo doesn't lead to being completely free from others.

My question would be - is it worth living an incel life?

 

[Adûnâi]

A fitting meme ayaya

 

[sserafim]

Interesting! I've only ever read a single incel forum. The looksmax community has been slandered there, and it feels so annoying to make new accounts on new spaces.

There is also the NEETs forum which I have never partaken in.

Did someone say looksmax? Jfl

https://on.soundcloud.com/xoafFj17jf354TBM8

 

[LastFlowers]

"incel" is stupid as is it's ideology. "Involuntarily celibate" implies that you are being deprived of something you are owed. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

No one owes you sex or a relationship or a even their time of day. Incels can't accept that so they pass themselves off as oppressed. It's lame, at best.

Well according to most people here, the reasons as to why they suffer are not aspects of life that they volunteered to endure.
Whether that be a lack of relationship or sex, companionship or merely human decency…anything under the sun.

Not sure how you personally would determine who is owed what, however plenty of privileged people somehow believe they deserve what they have, even if unearned, even without any previous "payment" of suffering.
This includes status, validation and all manners of social currency that lead to contentment-which for many human beings clearly appears to include affection from other human beings.

I do believe the heart of the gripe is alive due to the overwhelming unfairness and disparities which make living without what is desired or needed for fulfilling one's sense of self..all the more tormenting.

It is one thing to starve. It is quite another to starve among those with full bellies and hands overflowing with bounty all whilst admonishing the bellowing of the ravenous, chiding the hungry for the same sense of entitlement that they-the satisfied-hypocritically possess with pride.

Surely if that's your lot in life..starving and suffering in some way that is unbearable.. you're unlikely to shrug it off or avoid embitterment.

So I do not think it is as simple as you make it out to be.
And I do think there are possibly uncontrollable factors in these individuals' lives that may lead to being oppressed and/or rejected by society..and society is ultimately other individuals, other people…who will deny you connection, often for superficial or thoughtless reasons..which are not applied equally.

 

[Dark Window]

"incel" is stupid as is it's ideology. "Involuntarily celibate" implies that you are being deprived of something you are owed. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

No one owes you sex or a relationship or a even their time of day. Incels can't accept that so they pass themselves off as oppressed. It's lame, at best.

Although entitled attitudes are common in incel communities, I don't think involuntary celibate implies a sense of entitlement, it just implies you want sex but aren't getting it, as opposed to being voluntarily celibate where you're not getting laid but don't care/lack interest or have forsaken it purposely for some other reason.

 

[Aplev]

Well according to most people here, the reasons as to why they suffer are not aspects of life that they volunteered to endure.
Whether that be a lack of relationship or sex, companionship or merely human decency…anything under the sun.

Not sure how you personally would determine who is owed what, however plenty of privileged people somehow believe they deserve what they have, even if unearned, even without any previous "payment" of suffering.
This includes status, validation and all manners of social currency that lead to contentment-which for many human beings clearly appears to include affection from other human beings.

I do believe the heart of the gripe is alive due to the overwhelming unfairness and disparities which make living without what is desired or needed for fulfilling one's sense of self..all the more tormenting.

It is one thing to starve. It is quite another to starve among those with full bellies and hands overflowing with bounty all whilst admonishing the bellowing of the ravenous, chiding the hungry for the same sense of entitlement that they-the satisfied-hypocritically possess with pride.

Surely if that's your lot in life..starving and suffering in some way that is unbearable.. you're unlikely to shrug it off or avoid embitterment.

So I do not think it is as simple as you make it out to be.
And I do think there are possibly uncontrollable factors in these individuals' lives that may lead to being oppressed and/or rejected by society..and society is ultimately other individuals, other people…who will deny you connection, often for superficial or thoughtless reasons..which are not applied equally.

This is what I always say. People (I know others who also think the same way and even go further and use words such as "pathetic") say the ideology is "stupid" and "lame" because they feel they are owned connections and meaningful relationships with people? Well, how about if I went and said that the ideas of people who complain about starvation are "stupid" and "lame" because they feel they are owned food?

The point is, if I am not owned anything, then you are not owned anything either. And if you are not owned anything, there's no reason why you should have what you have. So if you have it, why can't I have it too? How exactly are you more deserving than I? Just because you "worked harder" for it? What exactly is "hard work" and how is any harder and more deserving than my work?

If you really are "any better" and don't have any sense of entitlement, then go and throw what you have and give it to others. You will see we all have a sense of entitlement, that's just human.

It's easy to point at things and call them names when you are not the one enduring it. Or when you have a natural tendency towards adapting to the environment and not caring about anything else (that in itself is a thing not everyone has, and I am not saying it's a good thing to have, I am just saying some people have it and some don't). Not everyone is like that. Why, we could discuss it, but the point is there's nothing "stupid", "lame" or "pathetic" about a human being rightfully, naturally and understandably wanting what humans beings naturally want and need.

 

[Adûnâi]

Did someone say looksmax? Jfl

Thanks for bumping my thread! And I got my account verified in early March there (after 2.5 months?), but still never posted yet.

Just as I'm a fake suicider, so am I a fake incel now because on March 18th, 2024, a girl agreed to be my future gf, but she seems so dull and disinterest and clueless and boring that I have no idea how to wait until December when she's supposed to come to the Ukraine.

And Janitor AI, while having take immense strides in its quality, is still ultimately disappointing.