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Think there is a balance or should be a balance.
But when you are depressed and have/are gone through hell it's hard to see the good things much less experience them or enjoy them.
Think there is a balance or should be a balance.
Personally l find the 'philosophy' posts on here to be self-indulgent froth and l avoid them. This is a personal preference obviously, and l generally swerve. The issues arise when an individual poster begins pointing at everything they don't like and calling it "pro life". If anyone is to start drawing the lines of who's in and who's out of the playground clique they're probably going to have to defend that position at some point. Similarly, it shouldn't be expected that everyone registered on this site follows the same philosophical creed. There are myriad drivers to suicide and philosophical discussions around it, like political ones, are going to involve differences of opinion, lest we become a tedious death cult.
Well I shouldn't have written that, as I had nowhere near enough info to come to that position. So I feel embarrassed, and a little shitty, but wrong is wrong.
The fact that people are elsewhere suggesting the responsibility lies with the people bring harrassed via dm to simply ignore (in the thread above he was told publicly to stop dming and clearly continued) rather than acknowledge the obvious fact that aggressive dm harassment is objectively poor conduct is quite telling about the nature of this forum imo.
@RainAndSadness your post i'm replying to was a great post., maybe your post or another write up can become an OP for another thread?
japaninsides.com
that's why i deleted the post yesterday and stopped responding :) you got to it quick! can understand where you guys are coming from up to a point
Kudos for this. I admire the integrity of this post.Well I shouldn't have written that, as I had nowhere near enough info to come to that position. So I feel embarrassed, and a little shitty, but wrong is wrong.
Sorry to pull an "ackchually," but her thread is not actually marked as venting like you say it is. And if it's not marked as venting, like for instance this one, then there are inevitably going to be users who take it seriously as a problematic value judgement of others. I'm not trying to defend motel rooms from a ban here, I'm trying to say that when this kind of stuff slips through the cracks (venting but not marked as venting), it's no wonder people read it like cryptic suicide encouragement. So her other thread is certainly not devoid of controversy. That controversy spilled into this thread.
To be clear, the only controversy I'm referring to is calling people delusional for wanting to live, not calling the world awful. The former is a value judgement on others, the latter is more clearly a subjective statement. The title of that thread not properly labelled as "venting" calls people delusional if they want to live. So in case you're responding to me, which I'm assuming because you put controversial in air quotes, know that I'm not calling FC's take on the world as controversial, just FC's take on people who want to live in it being inherently delusional for it.
If you view the latter as "subjective statement", then no wonder you don't understand that deciding to live requires delusion, we couldn't go on without it, it is not offensive to acknowledge it.
I can see where people get annoyed at being called delusional—but it happens to be true. And there are some folks who look at the universe, and everything in it, all the way from nuclear war to the universe's eventual heat death and can't find a point to any of it. They're not wrong.
i agree with most of that.
i agree with most of that.
What is the most universal truth of all? That every human will die no matter what. in 120 years every human "alive " now will be dead., all 7 bilion. And do people, the media, websites , facebook talk about that? only here have i sometimes seen talk of that. Nobody talks about it Death or what i said why not? hmmmm .
There are thousands of observations i have like this .another is that we are taught that we are something special . A human is just a small animal.
Also times passes much faster than humans realize : the last 5 years passed by really fast didn't they . why doesn't anyone talk about these things ? that's reality . Are we really so different than that fly that we share 44% of the exact same genes that lives only a week? ask any older person the decades fly by like a blink of an eye.
Memory is also an illusion. No one can remember what the people were wearing the last few times they went to a grocery or retail store but we assume the memory is wholly there.
Human consciousness is nothing special a crow is almost as smart as a human . Here one is thinking 8 steps ahead like a grand chess master to solve a problem :
Look, I actually agree with you that the world is awful. I also think that's a subjective statement. Those beliefs are not mutually exclusive. The problem is FC called people delusional if they want to live, and multiple people including myself took it seriously. I want people like FC to be able to vent, but we're walking on a tightrope here where we have to be cautious about cryptic suicide encouragement. Lots of people interacted with that thread. I don't think it's FC's fault, it's something that has to be moderated correctly. Not only was the thread never given a venting tag, but a mod mistakenly thought it was there, and presumably they made judgements about users unaware of the legitimacy of a controversy.
Totally not your fault. I personally mistook it as serious, and I apologize for that. You're allowed to have beliefs about life, that is not the controversy. The controversy is other people accidentally taking the brunt of value judgements about themselves seriously. This site would not tolerate someone if they called suicidal people delusional. For a site that boasts having a recovery section, it would be invalidating to that community if anyone got the impression that it's okay to say people who want to recover/live are delusional.
Well put. This is the crux of the matter.
Peaceful method because it's less risk of SI kicking in.
You cannot say that suicide is a more rational choice for other people. You can only speak for yourself. The generalization of that choice, which you seem to hold to everyone, is pro-death, not pro-choice. If it is invalidating for someone to say suicidal people are delusional, then it is invalidating for you to say non-suicidal people are delusional. It's as simple as that.
Hope and confidence are not necessarily delusions. I'm not going to engage with this point much further, because it's very clear that you're claiming scientific expertise when you have none.
This is cultish thinking, akin to Evangelicals who preach that the devil manipulates people into doing un-Christian things.
