In the case of an anchor hitch, is it possible to pass the free end of the rope through the loops multiple times?

[HappyApplepie]

I've been watching videos on how to tie the anchor hitch. Normally, after wrapping the rope around the object, you only need to pass the free end through the two loops once, but I've seen videos where they pass it through twice, and others where they do it three times.
Is there anything important to know about this? How many times should it be passed through?
I hope you don't mind me disturbing you, @JesiBel but I can't decide.

 

[JesiBel]

I've been watching videos on how to tie the anchor hitch. Normally, after wrapping the rope around the object, you only need to pass the free end through the two loops once, but I've seen videos where they pass it through twice, and others where they do it three times.
Is there anything important to know about this? How many times should it be passed through?
I hope you don't mind me disturbing you, @JesiBel but I can't decide.

Hello!

The Anchor Hitch Knot is tied with two turns (wraps) around the object + two half hitches to lock it.



You can tie a stopper knot (overhand knot) at the free end for more security, leaving a free section of about 15 to 20 cm.

You need -1 more posts to view this content

As for modifications and variations, you can make them if you wish.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Hello!

The Anchor Hitch Knot is tied with two turns (wraps) around the object + two half hitches to lock it.



You can tie a stopper knot (overhand knot) at the free end for more security, leaving a free section of about 15 to 20 cm.

[Hidden content]

As for modifications and variations, you can make them if you wish.

Thank you very much for the help! I am incredibly grateful!
Sorry, but the matter isn't entirely clear to me. Regarding the last version (with three half-hitches): does the second half-hitch pass through the two loops, or is it made the same way as the third one?
Also, since the topic has come up, I have another question and would be very grateful for your help! I'd like to ask about the choice of rope: is a rope with a slippery surface or one with a "tacky" surface better? After all, with a slippery rope, the Arbor Knot tightens more easily under load, but the other end can also slip out more easily (the same applies to the Anchor Hitch).
I have one more question: what is your opinion on the Estar stopper knot?

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you very much for the help! I am incredibly grateful!
Sorry, but the matter isn't entirely clear to me. Regarding the last version (with three half-hitches): does the second half-hitch pass through the two loops, or is it made the same way as the third one?
Also, since the topic has come up, I have another question and would be very grateful for your help! I'd like to ask about the choice of rope: is a rope with a slippery surface or one with a "tacky" surface better? After all, with a slippery rope, the Arbor Knot tightens more easily under load, but the other end can also slip out more easily (the same applies to the Anchor Hitch).
I have one more question: what is your opinion on the Estar stopper knot?

No, 'in variation 2' there are:

1 locking half hitch passed through those wraps (turns)
2 finishing half hitches around the standing part/end (the section of rope that you are not manipulating to tie the knot)

You can tie the EStar Stopper Knot at the free end if you want and if you have enough rope. Any stopper knot will work (perhaps a slightly easier and bulkier one would be the double overhand knot).

The Anchor Hitch Knot, without variations (the first photo), is already perfect for use. You can modify it and get creative, but it doesn't need to be modified to be a more secure knot.

Synthetic ropes (for example polyester, polypropylene) are a good option, they are strong and, as you mention, their surface is soft and smooth. This makes it easier for the Arbor Knot (ligature) to slide easily.


Before buying the rope, check its
Working Load Limit (WLL). Your full weight must not exceed that limit/number.

 

[HappyApplepie]

No, 'in variation 2' there are:

1 locking half hitch passed through those wraps (turns)
2 finishing half hitches around the standing part/end (the section of rope that you are not manipulating to tie the knot)

You can tie the EStar Stopper Knot at the free end if you want and if you have enough rope. Any stopper knot will work (perhaps a slightly easier and bulkier one would be the double overhand knot).

The Anchor Hitch Knot, without variations (the first photo), is already perfect for use. You can modify it and get creative, but it doesn't need to be modified to be a more secure knot.

Synthetic ropes (for example polyester, polypropylene) are a good option, they are strong and, as you mention, their surface is soft and smooth. This makes it easier for the Arbor Knot (ligature) to slide easily.


Before buying the rope, check its
Working Load Limit (WLL). Your full weight must not exceed that limit/number.

Thank you! Thank you very much! By the way, I hope you understand what I'm writing, as my English isn't very strong.
If I understand correctly, slippery ropes are better because the arbor knot tightens more easily on them (that's why you recommend synthetic ropes). Won't the anchor hitch or the other end of the arbor knot slip out? Because that would be pretty bad.
I read in your posts that the rope diameter should be between 10 and 14 mm. But how do I decide which diameter to choose? I have access to 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 mm ropes. Which one should I pick? Does body weight matter or what?

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you! Thank you very much! By the way, I hope you understand what I'm writing, as my English isn't very strong.
If I understand correctly, slippery ropes are better because the arbor knot tightens more easily on them (that's why you recommend synthetic ropes). Won't the anchor hitch or the other end of the arbor knot slip out? Because that would be pretty bad.
I read in your posts that the rope diameter should be between 10 and 14 mm. But how do I decide which diameter to choose? I have access to 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 mm ropes. Which one should I pick? Does body weight matter or what?

Don't worry, my native language isn't English either.

That won't happen; when you add your weight or a load, the knots will tighten, and the rope won't slip so that the knots come undone on their own.

For extra security, the stopper knots are tied, as I mentioned before. The Arbor Knot already has one at the free end (photo here). And behind the stopper knots (those of the ligature and anchor point), leave a 15-20 cm slack of rope, as shown in the photos in this thread.

Practice tying knots well, that's important.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the rope's label or the website where you buy it will have the specifications. Check its Working Load Limit; your full weight shouldn't exceed that number.

Spoiler

Other words you might find on the rope label:

• Tensile Strength and Breaking Strength differences

• Safety factor, Tensile/Breaking Strength, Working Load Limit WLL/ Safe Working Load SWL

As for thickness, my rope is 12 mm polypropylene.
It's a matter of personal preference. A rope that's too thick will make tying knots more difficult (stiff handling) because it's less flexible. With a rope that is too thin, it will be more painful.

Within the range of 10 to 14 mm you can maneuver with ease. You can also experiment with other thicknesses if you wish.

You can read more about this topic in this thread: Rope diameter in hanging, thick vs. thin ropes.

Spoiler

About Hanging "practices"

 

[HappyApplepie]

Don't worry, my native language isn't English either.

That won't happen; when you add your weight or a load, the knots will tighten, and the rope won't slip so that the knots come undone on their own.

For extra security, the stopper knots are tied, as I mentioned before. The Arbor Knot already has one at the free end (photo here). And behind the stopper knots (those of the ligature and anchor point), leave a 15-20 cm slack of rope, as shown in the photos in this thread.

Practice tying knots well, that's important.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the rope's label or the website where you buy it will have the specifications. Check its Working Load Limit; your full weight shouldn't exceed that number.

Spoiler

Other words you might find on the rope label:

• Tensile Strength and Breaking Strength differences

• Safety factor, Tensile/Breaking Strength, Working Load Limit WLL/ Safe Working Load SWL

As for thickness, my rope is 12 mm polypropylene.
It's a matter of personal preference. A rope that's too thick will make tying knots more difficult (stiff handling) because it's less flexible. With a rope that is too thin, it will be more painful.

Within the range of 10 to 14 mm you can maneuver with ease. You can also experiment with other thicknesses if you wish.

You can read more about this topic in this thread: Rope diameter in hanging, thick vs. thin ropes.

Spoiler

About Hanging "practices"

Thank you very much! I have three more questions I don't know the answer to! I would be incredibly grateful if you could answer these as well. I owe you so much for taking the time to help!
1. One of the ropes has 5% stretch; would that be suitable for the purpose? The distance between my feet and the ground is almost exactly 50 cm when I push my chair away.
2. In your description, I read that the noose should be placed between the Adam's apple and the jaw. That's okay, I understand, but you mentioned that the knot should be positioned in the middle of the back of the neck. This might be due to my limited English, but did you mean the middle in a horizontal or a vertical sense?
3. What happens if I tie the last two half-hitches in the opposite direction to the first one? (In other words, if I crossed the first half-hitch over the standing part, I cross the other two under it.)

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you very much! I have three more questions I don't know the answer to! I would be incredibly grateful if you could answer these as well. I owe you so much for taking the time to help!
1. One of the ropes has 5% stretch; would that be suitable for the purpose? The distance between my feet and the ground is almost exactly 50 cm when I push my chair away.
2. In your description, I read that the noose should be placed between the Adam's apple and the jaw. That's okay, I understand, but you mentioned that the knot should be positioned in the middle of the back of the neck. This might be due to my limited English, but did you mean the middle in a horizontal or a vertical sense?
3. What happens if I tie the last two half-hitches in the opposite direction to the first one? (In other words, if I crossed the first half-hitch over the standing part, I cross the other two under it.)

Yes, that's fine, it's a low percentage of stretch (5%).

As long as your feet don't touch the ground, it will be Full Suspension Hanging. A height of 50 cm between your feet and the ground can work.
What's your anchor point? Perhaps if you can stand on something a little higher you'll have a few extra centimeters.

Make sure the rope is taut and at a height where you can pass your head through the ligature.
You can also pre-adjust the ligature around the neck. In this way, the knot would remain in contact with the neck in its correct position in the center.
This is an illustrative (Photo, warning! Sensitive content) regarding "the center of the neck". This way you can better compress the carotid arteries on both sides of the neck, blocking the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain.

Spoiler

• Brief summary about brain oxygen deprivation and death

• Ligature position, drawing + forensic photo showing the neck furrow from rope

• Ligature position + reference drawing with neck anatomy

I recommend tying the Anchor Hitch knot in the traditional way, as shown in the first photo (without the variations). The video I added explains how to tie it easily. You just need to add the stopper knot and leave a length of rope at the free end. There's no need to complicate things. You'll find it's a very secure knot when you have your rope. Test it by tying the rope to the anchor point and applying your full weight by hanging from the rope with your hands. (This way you will also test if your anchor point is strong)

 

[HappyApplepie]

Yes, that's fine, it's a low percentage of stretch (5%).

As long as your feet don't touch the ground, it will be Full Suspension Hanging. A height of 50 cm between your feet and the ground can work.
What's your anchor point? Perhaps if you can stand on something a little higher you'll have a few extra centimeters.

Make sure the rope is taut and at a height where you can pass your head through the ligature.
pre-adjust the ligature around the neck. In this way, the knot would remain in contact with the neck in its correct position in the center.
This is an illustrative (Photo, warning! Sensitive content) regarding "the center of the neck". This way you can better compress the carotid arteries

Spoiler

• Brief summary about brain oxygen deprivation and death

• Ligature position, drawing + forensic photo showing the neck furrow from rope

• Ligature position + reference drawing with neck anatomy

I recommend tying the Anchor Hitch knot in the traditional way, as shown in the first photo (without the variations). The video I added explains how to tie it easily. You just need to add the stopper knot and leave a length of rope at the free end. There's no need to complicate things. You'll find it's a very secure knot when you have your rope. Test it by tying the rope to the anchor point and applying your full weight by hanging from the rope with your hands. (This way you will also test if your anchor point is strong)

Thank you very much.
I'm really lucky because I have a lot anchor point, so I have a questions, for choose the good anchor point:
1. Is it a problem if the surface of the anchor point isn't smooth but rough? I'm worried it might cut the rope.
2. Is it a problem if the anchor point isn't round? The anchor hitch is always tied around round anchor points in every video I watch (e.g., a pole, a tree branch, an anchor).
By the way, I read the post about thin versus thick ropes. First of all, thank you very much—it was really interesting. But a question came up: Is it a problem if my rope is very thin? Aside from the fact that it will probably be very painful, are there any downsides?
I'm sorry, if I have a lot of question, but I'm really overthinking

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you very much.
I'm really lucky because I have a lot anchor point, so I have a questions, for choose the good anchor point:
1. Is it a problem if the surface of the anchor point isn't smooth but rough? I'm worried it might cut the rope.
2. Is it a problem if the anchor point isn't round? The anchor hitch is always tied around round anchor points in every video I watch (e.g., a pole, a tree branch, an anchor).
By the way, I read the post about thin versus thick ropes. First of all, thank you very much—it was really interesting. But a question came up: Is it a problem if my rope is very thin? Aside from the fact that it will probably be very painful, are there any downsides?
I'm sorry, if I have a lot of question, but I'm really overthinking

The best anchor point will be the strongest, and the one that allows you the most height for Full Suspension.

Test all possible places, tie the rope to the anchor point and hang from it with your full weight holding the rope with your hands.
Repeat the process several times; the structure should remain firm with no signs of change or damage.

Unless it's a very sharp object, I doubt the rope can be cut so easily; try rubbing a piece of the rope against the surface and you'll see it will be a difficult task to cut it using continuous friction.

My anchor point is a rectangular ceiling beam, there are no problems with the shape (unless it's a sphere and I doubt your anchor point is like that), I can tie the Anchor Hitch knot perfectly.

Why would you use a thinner rope (less than 10 mm) that would make you feel more discomfort during the attempt? In terms of effectiveness, it can work (but I don't recommend it).

In this thread you will see that people have used different thicknesses and materials, and have achieved their goal: Videos of successful hangings

The thickness of the rope also influences the WLL; if it is very thin, its strength will be lower compared to thicker ropes.

Overthinking doesn't help much, I think it's best if you take a break. Don't rush.

Once you have the materials, you can thoroughly test everything and draw your own conclusions. Practicing knot tying and the testing process will clear up all your doubts.

 

[HappyApplepie]

The best anchor point will be the strongest, and the one that allows you the most height for Full Suspension.

Test all possible places, tie the rope to the anchor point and hang from it with your full weight holding the rope with your hands.
Repeat the process several times; the structure should remain firm with no signs of change or damage.

Unless it's a very sharp object, I doubt the rope can be cut so easily; try rubbing a piece of the rope against the surface and you'll see it will be a difficult task to cut it using continuous friction.

My anchor point is a rectangular ceiling beam, there are no problems with the shape (unless it's a sphere and I doubt your anchor point is like that), I can tie the Anchor Hitch knot perfectly.

Why would you use a thinner rope (less than 10 mm) that would make you feel more discomfort during the attempt? In terms of effectiveness, it can work (but I don't recommend it).

In this thread you will see that people have used different thicknesses and materials, and have achieved their goal: Videos of successful hangings

The thickness of the rope also influences the WLL; if it is very thin, its strength will be lower compared to thicker ropes.

Overthinking doesn't help much, I think it's best if you take a break. Don't rush.

Once you have the materials, you can thoroughly test everything and draw your own conclusions. Practicing knot tying and the testing process will clear up all your doubts.

Thank you very much.
In this case, a metal bar in our yard will serve as my anchor point! I already have a date in mind for when I could do it, but I'm still thinking it over to avoid doing something rash! I am absolutely certain that no one would find me within the hour following the attempt—which, I believe, is more than enough time for death to occur.
I've even tested it in practice; it's sturdy enough to withstand my body weight and any jerking movements.
I was also wondering if it might be better to choose something softer? Kernmantle ropes are stiff, so they can be uncomfortable. I think this is an issue not just when tying the knot, but also when the rope presses against my neck. Since they hardly compress at all, the pain might be worse. In contrast, a braided rope is soft and can compress under load, making it more comfortable even as it digs into the neck. Then again, a scarf or a curtain might be even softer and more comfortable. Can these be used for this purpose?
( Sorry, just 'm afraid to the pain)

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you very much.
In this case, a metal bar in our yard will serve as my anchor point! I already have a date in mind for when I could do it, but I'm still thinking it over to avoid doing something rash! I am absolutely certain that no one would find me within the hour following the attempt—which, I believe, is more than enough time for death to occur.
I've even tested it in practice; it's sturdy enough to withstand my body weight and any jerking movements.
I was also wondering if it might be better to choose something softer? Kernmantle ropes are stiff, so they can be uncomfortable. I think this is an issue not just when tying the knot, but also when the rope presses against my neck. Since they hardly compress at all, the pain might be worse. In contrast, a braided rope is soft and can compress under load, making it more comfortable even as it digs into the neck. Then again, a scarf or a curtain might be even softer and more comfortable. Can these be used for this purpose?
( Sorry, just 'm afraid to the pain)

Yes, it's extremely important that no one finds you prematurely. The longer the brain is deprived of oxygen, the greater the damage will be. A full hour will be fine; you'll need that time to assemble the setup and test everything again. At least 30 minutes of oxygen deprivation is also necessary to ensure that if someone tries to save you, they won't be able to.

Don't rush into setting a date; this is an information forum, so don't make hasty decisions. Think everything through beforehand.

Spoiler

• Mistakes in the Hanging method

• Main points where the attempt may fail

Good, testing is also important; before the attempt, test everything again just in case.

Yes, Kernmantle ropes tend to be stiffer and more difficult to tie and tighten knots properly. For this reason, don't forget the stopper knot, and leave a free end section of about 15 to 20 cm. As I mentioned before.

If you make the correct knot for the ligature (Arbor Knot) it will compress the neck (the knot tightens itself under a load), it may look rougher and less flexible than if you used a braided rope. Ropes with a central core are less flexible.

Here, users usually choose between: Single/hollow (without core) or double (with core) braid ropes (this depends on personal preference, I prefer the first type).

The rope will inevitably penetrate the neck (look at forensic photos, you'll see that they all show the characteristic deep furrow); your full weight will be suspended in the air plus gravity doing its job. You will also feel the compression of the ligature tightening firmly around the neck.

For the first 15 seconds, or before you lose consciousness (it could be less time), all your senses will be as active as they are right now. After that, you won't feel anything anymore.

Spoiler

Phases in the Hanging death mechanism (2 research pdfs)

Perhaps you could use a thin cloth (like an unfolded pocket handkerchief) around the neck if you don't want the rope to be in direct contact with your bare skin.

Please, reconsider the entire situation. Fear and doubt are not good. Don't rush.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Yes, it's extremely important that no one finds you prematurely. The longer the brain is deprived of oxygen, the greater the damage will be. A full hour will be fine; you'll need that time to assemble the setup and test everything again. At least 30 minutes of oxygen deprivation is also necessary to ensure that if someone tries to save you, they won't be able to.

Don't rush into setting a date; this is an information forum, so don't make hasty decisions. Think everything through beforehand.

Spoiler

• Mistakes in the Hanging method

• Main points where the attempt may fail

Good, testing is also important; before the attempt, test everything again just in case.

Yes, Kernmantle ropes tend to be stiffer and more difficult to tie and tighten knots properly. For this reason, don't forget the stopper knot, and leave a free end section of about 15 to 20 cm. As I mentioned before.

If you make the correct knot for the ligature (Arbor Knot) it will compress the neck (the knot tightens itself under a load), it may look rougher and less flexible than if you used a braided rope. Ropes with a central core are less flexible.

Here, users usually choose between: Single/hollow (without core) or double (with core) braid ropes (this depends on personal preference, I prefer the first type).

The rope will inevitably penetrate the neck (look at forensic photos, you'll see that they all show the characteristic deep furrow); your full weight will be suspended in the air plus gravity doing its job. You will also feel the compression of the ligature tightening firmly around the neck.

For the first 15 seconds, or before you lose consciousness (it could be less time), all your senses will be as active as they are right now. After that, you won't feel anything anymore.

Spoiler

Phases in the Hanging death mechanism (2 research pdfs)

Perhaps you could use a thin cloth (like an unfolded pocket handkerchief) around the neck if you don't want the rope to be in direct contact with your bare skin.

Please, reconsider the entire situation. Fear and doubt are not good. Don't rush.

thank you! These are really helpful information!!!
To be honest, I'm a little scared. Is there any way to know roughly how long it takes to lose consciousness? I've heard it can happen almost instantly, but I've also heard that it's impossible to lose consciousness in less than 10–15 seconds. I'd also be interested to know what it feels like—is it very painful or uncomfortable?

 

[JesiBel]

thank you! These are really helpful information!!!
To be honest, I'm a little scared. Is there any way to know roughly how long it takes to lose consciousness? I've heard it can happen almost instantly, but I've also heard that it's impossible to lose consciousness in less than 10–15 seconds. I'd also be interested to know what it feels like—is it very painful or uncomfortable?

You can verify this for yourself by watching videos and reading the two PDFs I mentioned earlier:

Videos of successful Full Suspension Hangings attempts

You can even practice and draw your own conclusions.

I've already said everything else; I suggest you to read all the hyperlinks.

I'm abandoning this thread. I think it's best if you wait; overthinking will only lead you in circles. If you're not ready, don't force it.

 

[HappyApplepie]

You can verify this for yourself by watching videos and reading the two PDFs I mentioned earlier:

Videos of successful Full Suspension Hangings attempts

practice and draw your own conclusions.

I've already said everything else; I suggest you to read all the hyperlinks.

I'm abandoning this thread. I think it's best if you wait; overthinking will only lead you in circles. If you're not ready, don't force it.

I am so very grateful that you took the time for me! I really have just one last question—nothing more!
You wrote in one of your posts that the stopper knot (in my case, the Estar Stopper knot) should be placed as close as possible to the noose knot. I can't get the Estar Stopper knot all the way up to it, though it is close.

 

[JesiBel]

I am so very grateful that you took the time for me! I really have just one last question—nothing more!
You wrote in one of your posts that the stopper knot (in my case, the Estar Stopper knot) should be placed as close as possible to the noose knot. I can't get the Estar Stopper knot all the way up to it, though it is close.View attachment 208096 View attachment 208091View attachment 208092View attachment 208090

Yes, it is fine. The EStar Stopper Knot is more bulky (tighten it well so that it is not loose). I see it's close to the Noose Knot. You also left a good length behind the stopper knot, which is good. It looks okay to me.

You need -1 more posts to view this content

That rope is just for practicing tying knots, right? Because it's a bit short. You can cut off the frayed ends and burn the tips to prevent the rope from losing its structure.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Yes, it is fine. The EStar Stopper Knot is more bulky (tighten it well so that it is not loose). I see it's close to the Noose Knot. You also left a good length behind the stopper knot, which is good. It looks okay to me.

[Hidden content]


That rope is just for practicing tying knots, right? Because it's a bit short. You can cut off the frayed ends and burn the tips to prevent the rope from losing its structure.

I see! The reason I have doubts is that if you look at the photos of the knot (where only the Estar stopper knot and the noose knot are visible), you can see that I can't push the Estar stopper knot all the way up against the Noose knot.

Because it's bulky, the bump on its side prevents it from getting any closer to the noose knot. I'm worried that when I put my body weight on it, as the part start slipe a little bit, it might suddenly slip too far, causing it to grip my neck more loosely for a few seconds. Can you understand what is my problem?

Do you position the stopper knot right against the top of the noose knot to ensure the part doesn't slip at all!! But if you look closely, the Estar stopper knot is so bulky that the bump on its side makes contact with the top of the Noose knot before the base of the knot itself reaches it.

I give you one photo, to understand my problem

(The green arrow is the bump on the side. The blue arrow is the Estar stopper knot bottom)

 

[JesiBel]

I see! The reason I have doubts is that if you look at the photos of the knot (where only the Estar stopper knot and the noose knot are visible), you can see that I can't push the Estar stopper knot all the way up against the Noose knot.

Because it's bulky, the bump on its side prevents it from getting any closer to the noose knot. I'm worried that when I put my body weight on it, as the part start slipe a little bit, it might suddenly slip too far, causing it to grip my neck more loosely for a few seconds. Can you understand what is my problem?

Do you position the stopper knot right against the top of the noose knot to ensure the part doesn't slip at all!! But if you look closely, the Estar stopper knot is so bulky that the bump on its side makes contact with the top of the Noose knot before the base of the knot itself reaches it.

I give you one photo, to understand my problem

(The green arrow is the bump on the side. The blue arrow is the Estar stopper knot bottom)

You can clear up your doubts by testing, not by speculating. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Test the ligature on a thigh and pull hard with your hands grabbing the end of the rope that would be tied to the anchor point.

With the stopper knot plus the free end section, the noose knot will not come undone. Check that the ligature slides smoothly and doesn't get stuck. Lubricate it if necessary.
This way, you can also test the compression of the ligature, and if the stopper knot you chose hinders or makes more difficult for the ligature to slide because it is bulkier (and may generate more friction).

Also, you can tie an Arbor Knot for the ligature and not complicate things unnecessarily.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Így a ligatúra összenyomódását is tesztelheted, és azt, hogy a választott stoppercsomó akadályozza-e vagy megnehezíti-e a ligatúra csúszását, mert terjedelmesebb (és nagyobb súrlódást okozhat).

What do you mean by that? You tie the stopper knot on the other strand, so why would it interfere with the sliding of the strand?
It's possible I'm just confused because my English isn't very good

 

[JesiBel]

What do you mean by that? You tie the stopper knot on the other strand, so why would it interfere with the sliding of the strand?
It's possible I'm just confused because my English isn't very good

Haha, somehow we managed to communicate despite the language barrier.

Yes I know. But, the EStar Stopper Knot, being large and bulky, is above the Overhand knot that is part of the Noose Knot; this can generate friction and interfere with the end that is tied to the anchor point. If you test it and the ligature slides smoothly, then it's fine.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Haha, somehow we managed to communicate despite the language barrier.

Yes I know. But, the EStar Stopper Knot, being large and bulky, is above the Overhand knot that is part of the Noose Knot; this can generate friction and interfere with the end that is tied to the anchor point. If you test it and the ligature slides smoothly, then it's fine.

I was playing around with various knots, this anchor hitch does seem very strong. Do you think it's superior to the arbor knot for your anchor point? I did sort of like the simplicity of using the arbor knot for both anchor point and ligature. It's funny, I was confused before I knew any knots... now I'm confused because I know a few... lol

 

[HappyApplepie]

Haha, valahogy mégis sikerült kommunikálnunk a nyelvi akadályok ellenére.

Igen, tudom. De az EStar Stopper csomó, mivel nagy és terjedelmes, a Noose csomó részét képező Overhand csomó felett helyezkedik el; ez súrlódást okozhat, és tudja a horgonypontot lezárni. Ha kipróbálod, és a ligatúra simán csúszik, akkor minden rendben van.

That makes sense now!
I try, to understanding to you, what am I talking prevousily: The reason you place the stopper knot close to the Noose knot is so that when your body weight is applied and the rope begins to slide along both strands—the one that reduces the size of the loop and the one holding the stopper knot—the stopper-knot strand doesn't slip; if it did, the loop would momentarily go slack on one side. My point was that with the Estar stopper knot, it's the side that makes contact first rather than the base, so there might be a split second where the ligature is not to tight.

 

[barbiekardashian]

Is there a need to do a stopper knot as well as a slip knot or is a slip knot by itself perfectly sufficient for a hanging attempt?

 

[JesiBel]

I was playing around with various knots, this anchor hitch does seem very strong. Do you think it's superior to the arbor knot for your anchor point? I did sort of like the simplicity of using the arbor knot for both anchor point and ligature. It's funny, I was confused before I knew any knots... now I'm confused because I know a few... lol

Hello!

I would prefer to use the Anchor Hitch knot (2 turns, 2 half hitches, photo + info) for the anchor point. It seems more strong to me, and it's also easy to make. You can add the modifications I suggested to make it even safer.

But it's fine if you want to use the Arbor Knot for both the anchor point and the ligature. Always test everything.

That makes sense now!
I try, to understanding to you, what am I talking prevousily: The reason you place the stopper knot close to the Noose knot is so that when your body weight is applied and the rope begins to slide along both strands—the one that reduces the size of the loop and the one holding the stopper knot—the stopper-knot strand doesn't slip; if it did, the loop would momentarily go slack on one side. My point was that with the Estar stopper knot, it's the side that makes contact first rather than the base, so there might be a split second where the ligature is not to tight.

The end of the rope that makes the ligature smaller is the one tied to the anchor point (pulling on this end is when the Noose Knot starts to tighten itself).

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If there is no excessive friction generated by the stopper knot and the overhand knot that forms the nose knot, there should be no problems. The end of the rope attached to the anchor point should slide smoothly.

Maybe we're not understanding each other well lol I apologize for my limited English.

Is there a need to do a stopper knot as well as a slip knot or is a slip knot by itself perfectly sufficient for a hanging attempt?

Noose Knot and Arbor Knot (photo and differences)

If you only want to use the Noose Knot without a stopper knot, you can do so, but leave a long free end for more security.

Arbor Knot = Noose Knot + Overhand knot (stopper knot) at the free end

 

[AreWeWinning]

The importance of adding a stopper knot

Is it like for additional success rate or is it must have? I didn't see it's mentioned anywhere (Evelyn's guide) and didn't see anything alike in those hangings videos

Is there a need to do a stopper knot as well as a slip knot or is a slip knot by itself perfectly sufficient for a hanging attempt?

If you only want to use the Noose Knot without a stopper knot, you can do so, but leave a long free end for more security.

Adding a stopper knot after the Noose Knot is a must. It isn't optional and isn't just for 'extra security'. Without the stopper knot, the Noose Knot can slip a lot and can even completely untie itself. I'm not saying that it always will, but it can, depending on the type of rope and other factors. It's not a good idea to take that risk.

Here are two videos to illustrate this.

In the following video, I tied a Noose Knot without a stopper knot and pulled on it. I think the video speaks for itself, and it's clear that the knot isn't secure.

View attachment video 1_.mp4​

In the next video, I tied a Noose Knot around an object that doesn't have a smooth surface. The video shows that the Noose Knot can slip and roll around the object. This can easily happen during hanging if someone doesn't tie a stopper knot in the tail end.

View attachment video 2_.mp4​

There is a reason why the Arbor Knot or the Canadian Jam Knot are tied with an additional stopper knot. Omitting the stopper knot is a critical mistake.

@ratherpainful, Evelyn's guide doesn't mention it, but I don't see that as a counterargument. She doesn't address this problem either way. She might have simply not thought about this, who knows. If you think my explanation – including what I said in the comment you replied to – is wrong, then please point out why. But if you just say that it isn't in Evelyn's guide, I don't know how to respond to that. Regarding hanging videos, people do all kinds of things in those videos, so I don't see how this is relevant either. Besides, I'm not sure how you can see what exact knots are used in those videos, because it's impossible to see most of the time

Arbor Knot vs. Anchor Hitch

I was playing around with various knots, this anchor hitch does seem very strong. Do you think it's superior to the arbor knot for your anchor point? I did sort of like the simplicity of using the arbor knot for both anchor point and ligature.

Technically, the Arbor Knot might be slightly inferior in terms of strength, but this is theoretical and doesn't really matter for us. First, I'm not even sure whether there is a meaningful difference in strength. Second, if you use the Arbor Knot at the neck side anyway, then it doesn't matter whether there is another one at the anchor side. Two Arbor Knots is not weaker than one. And an Anchor Hitch on one side and an Arbor Knot on the other side is not stronger than using Arbor Knots on both sides. Your overall setup is only as strong as its weakest point.

Think of it like this: You're worried whether the Arbor Knot is robust enough to use. So, instead of using the Arbor Knot, you wrap your rope around the anchor point 100 times, tie 50 Half Hitches around the standing end, and you finish it with 37 stopper knots. That's quite secure. Okay, but there is still an Arbor Knot around your neck! So did you really make your setup more secure? (No, you didn't.)

Practically speaking, whether you use the Arbor Knot, the Anchor Hitch, or another knot at the anchor side just comes down to personal preference. Use whichever one you feel comfortable with. It's absolutely fine to use the Anchor Hitch. But if you use the Arbor Knot for your anchor point, you're not making a mistake either.

 

[RageQuit]

The importance of adding a stopper knot

Adding a stopper knot after the Noose Knot is a must. It isn't optional and isn't just for 'extra security'. Without the stopper knot, the Noose Knot can slip a lot and can even completely untie itself. I'm not saying that it always will, but it can, depending on the type of rope and other factors. It's not a good idea to take that risk.

Here are two videos to illustrate this.

In the following video, I tied a Noose Knot without a stopper knot and pulled on it. I think the video speaks for itself, and it's clear that the knot isn't secure.

View attachment 208437​

In the next video, I tied a Noose Knot around an object that doesn't have a smooth surface. The video shows that the Noose Knot can slip and roll around the object. This can easily happen during hanging if someone doesn't tie a stopper knot in the tail end.

View attachment 208438​

There is a reason why the Arbor Knot or the Canadian Jam Knot are tied with an additional stopper knot. Omitting the stopper knot is a critical mistake.

@ratherpainful, Evelyn's guide doesn't mention it, but I don't see that as a counterargument. She doesn't address this problem either way. She might have simply not thought about this, who knows. If you think my explanation – including what I said in the comment you replied to – is wrong, then please point out why. But if you just say that it isn't in Evelyn's guide, I don't know how to respond to that. Regarding hanging videos, people do all kinds of things in those videos, so I don't see how this is relevant either. Besides, I'm not sure how you can see what exact knots are used in those videos, because it's impossible to see most of the time

Arbor Knot vs. Anchor Hitch

Technically, the Arbor Knot might be slightly inferior in terms of strength, but this is theoretical and doesn't really matter for us. First, I'm not even sure whether there is a meaningful difference in strength. Second, if you use the Arbor Knot at the neck side anyway, then it doesn't matter whether there is another one at the anchor side. Two Arbor Knots is not weaker than one. And an Anchor Hitch on one side and an Arbor Knot on the other side is not stronger than using Arbor Knots on both sides. Your overall setup is only as strong as its weakest point.

Think of it like this: You're worried whether the Arbor Knot is robust enough to use. So, instead of using the Arbor Knot, you wrap your rope around the anchor point 100 times, tie 50 Half Hitches around the standing end, and you finish it with 37 stopper knots. That's quite secure. Okay, but there is still an Arbor Knot around your neck! So did you really make your setup more secure? (No, you didn't.)

Practically speaking, whether you use the Arbor Knot, the Anchor Hitch, or another knot at the anchor side just comes down to personal preference. Use whichever one you feel comfortable with. It's absolutely fine to use the Anchor Hitch. But if you use the Arbor Knot for your anchor point, you're not making a mistake either.

Thank you for your excellent explanation and videos. It's role is finally clear to me now.
Quick question: does the bowline knot need a stopper?

 

[AreWeWinning]

Quick question: does the bowline knot need a stopper?

No, for what we're doing, the Bowline doesn't need a stopper per se. It's a very stable knot that doesn't slip. However, adding a stopper knot is ridiculously simple, and there is no downside to adding one, only upside. It only makes the knot more secure. Think of it as 'extra insurance'. I don't see any reason not to add one.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Helló!

Én az Anchor Hitch csomót (2 fordulat, 2 félcsomó, fotó + infó) használnám rögzítési pontnak. Nekem erősebbnek tűnik, és könnyebb is elkészíteni. Elvégezheted az általam javasolt módosításokat, hogy még biztonságosabb legyen.

De az sem baj, ha az Arbor Knot-ot mind a horgonyponthoz, mind a ligatúrához szeretnéd használni. Mindig mindent tesztelj.



A kötélnek az a vége, amelyik kisebbé teszi a ligatúrát, az, amelyik a horgonyponthoz van kötve (ennek a végnek a húzásakor kezd el húzódni a hurokcsomó).

[Rejtett tartalom]

Ha a stoppercsomó és az orrcsomót alkotó felső csomó között nem keletkezik túlzott súrlódás, akkor nem lehet probléma. A horgonyponthoz rögzített kötél végének simán kell csúsznia.

Lehet, hogy nem értjük egymást jól lol, elnézést a korlátozott angoltudásomért.


Hurokcsomó és Arbor csomó (fotó és különbségek)

Ha csak hurokcsomót szeretnél használni ütközőcsomó nélkül, megteheted, de a nagyobb biztonság érdekében hagyj egy hosszú szabad véget.

Arbor csomó = Hurokcsomó + Túlnyúló csomó (stoppercsomó) a szabad végén

You don't need to apologize; I am incredibly grateful for your help . I'm the one who should apologize for failing to explain it clearly!
Let me try explaining my "problem" in detail one more time!
With the noose knot, there are two strands: one that leads back to the anchor hitch (this is the one where, if tension is applied, the size of the loop shrinks, causing the rope to press against my neck), and the other, free strand.
The goal of the hanging is to completely cut off the oxygenated blood supply to the brain (anoxia) by fully occluding the carotid arteries through the tight pressure of the noose. For this to work, the pressure from the noose must be tight but ALSO even and constant—meaning it shouldn't loosen for even a single second!
And this is where the free strand of the noose knot comes into play. Why do we tie the stopper knot as close as possible to the noose knot? Because that when tension is applied (i.e., when you put your body weight on it) and the free strand starts to slip or slide, it cannot move by several centimeters; if it did, that part of the noose wouldn't remain tight enough around the neck a few second.
If you don't tie the stopper knot as close as possible to the Noose knot, it has to travel the distance until it actually makes contact with the Noose knot. While this is happening, the strand of the loop (ligature) on that side lengthens—meaning the pressure isn't constant for a moment.
My concern regarding the Estar stopper knot is that it isn't the base of the knot that hits the Noose knot, but rather the bulge on its side (indicated by arrows in the image). As @AreWeWinning previously wrote and illustrated in the video, the Noose knot isn't secure on its own because the strand that shouldn't slip actually does. When it starts to slide, the loop size temporarily increases, so the tension isn't uniform and constant for a few seconds. Do you see what I mean?

 

[JesiBel]

You don't need to apologize; I am incredibly grateful for your help . I'm the one who should apologize for failing to explain it clearly!
Let me try explaining my "problem" in detail one more time!
With the noose knot, there are two strands: one that leads back to the anchor hitch (this is the one where, if tension is applied, the size of the loop shrinks, causing the rope to press against my neck), and the other, free strand.
The goal of the hanging is to completely cut off the oxygenated blood supply to the brain (anoxia) by fully occluding the carotid arteries through the tight pressure of the noose. For this to work, the pressure from the noose must be tight but ALSO even and constant—meaning it shouldn't loosen for even a single second!
And this is where the free strand of the noose knot comes into play. Why do we tie the stopper knot as close as possible to the noose knot? Because that when tension is applied (i.e., when you put your body weight on it) and the free strand starts to slip or slide, it cannot move by several centimeters; if it did, that part of the noose wouldn't remain tight enough around the neck a few second.
If you don't tie the stopper knot as close as possible to the Noose knot, it has to travel the distance until it actually makes contact with the Noose knot. While this is happening, the strand of the loop (ligature) on that side lengthens—meaning the pressure isn't constant for a moment.
My concern regarding the Estar stopper knot is that it isn't the base of the knot that hits the Noose knot, but rather the bulge on its side (indicated by arrows in the image). As @AreWeWinning previously wrote and illustrated in the video, the Noose knot isn't secure on its own because the strand that shouldn't slip actually does. When it starts to slide, the loop size temporarily increases, so the tension isn't uniform and constant for a few seconds. Do you see what I mean?

Don't apologize, you explained it well.

Yes. Your carotid arteries are on both sides of your neck; placing the knot behind the neck, in the center, will allow you to compress both of them. (To lose consciousness quickly and stop blood flow to the brain)

While standing in the chair (or the object you will use to be elevated off the ground), you can pre-adjust the ligature around the neck so the knot and rope is in contact with your skin. You can then increase the tension on the rope by slightly bending your knees so the rope is taut and the Arbor Knot begins to exert some pressure. (By doing this, you will also prevent the ligature from shifting out of its proper position when you take the step out of the chair/object) Check that the ligature compresses evenly and continuously on both sides of the neck.

This way there will be no moment where you don't feel pressure on your neck, from the beginning it will be compressing until the Arbor Knot closes to the maximum when the body is finally suspended in the air applying its full weight.

I made these short videos, and as for the compression, I think it's fine. It looks slow because I was pulling the rope with one hand and holding my phone with the other:

 

[HappyApplepie]

Don't apologize, you explained it well.

Yes. Your carotid arteries are on both sides of your neck; placing the knot behind the neck, in the center, will allow you to compress both of them. (To lose consciousness quickly and stop blood flow to the brain)

While standing in the chair (or the object you will use to be elevated off the ground), you can pre-adjust the ligature around the neck so the knot and rope is in contact with your skin. You can then increase the tension on the rope by slightly bending your knees so the rope is taut and the Arbor Knot begins to exert some pressure. (By doing this, you will also prevent the ligature from shifting out of its proper position when you take the step out of the chair/object) Check that the ligature compresses evenly and continuously on both sides of the neck.

This way there will be no moment where you don't feel pressure on your neck, from the beginning it will be compressing until the Arbor Knot closes to the maximum when the body is finally suspended in the air applying its full weight.

I made these short videos, and as for the compression, I think it's fine. It looks slow because I was pulling the rope with one hand and holding my phone with the other:

All right, thank you very much!
I watched the videos and noticed that when people remove the ground from beneath themselves, they for some reason hold the section of the rope running from the Noose knot to the Anchor hitch—why is that?

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/49322/man-recorded-hanging-himself-in-facebook