In the case of an anchor hitch, is it possible to pass the free end of the rope through the loops multiple times?

[HappyApplepie]

I've been watching videos on how to tie the anchor hitch. Normally, after wrapping the rope around the object, you only need to pass the free end through the two loops once, but I've seen videos where they pass it through twice, and others where they do it three times.
Is there anything important to know about this? How many times should it be passed through?
I hope you don't mind me disturbing you, @JesiBel but I can't decide.

 

[JesiBel]

All right, thank you very much!
I watched the videos and noticed that when people remove the ground from beneath themselves, they for some reason hold the section of the rope running from the Noose knot to the Anchor hitch—why is that?

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/49322/man-recorded-hanging-himself-in-facebook

I don't have an exact answer... perhaps there could be a reason from a psychological perspective.

He put the knot behind his neck and then grabbed the rope to step away from the object where he was standing. He kept everything in the correct position after adjusting the ligature.

His hands release the rope when he loses consciousness and the phases of rigidity begin to be observed. (Decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity)

It might even be a reflex; when they are already hanging, they raise one of their hands and grab the rope. They don't try to lift themselves up; they simply grab the rope as a last conscious action. Similarly, some put their hands near their necks or touch their faces, others grab their clothes.

Spoiler: Personal perspective

Now that I think about it, maybe I would do the same. Not because I'm trying to save myself or anything like that; I don't have the strength to lift myself up and "climb" to the anchor point. I am weak physically.
It would simply be "more comfortable" for me to have one hand grabbing the rope and the other holding the knot behind my neck in position, rather than having my arms hanging limply at my sides.

Some users are even thinking about handcuffing themselves; I couldn't tolerate this, because my SI (survival instinct) would escalate to the maximum. Having my hands free would give me more peace of mind.

What do you think?

 

[Captive_Mind515]

I don't have an exact answer... perhaps there could be a reason from a psychological perspective.

He put the knot behind his neck and then grabbed the rope to step away from the object where he was standing. He kept everything in the correct position after adjusting the ligature.

His hands release the rope when he loses consciousness and the phases of rigidity begin to be observed. (Decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity)

It might even be a reflex; when they are already hanging, they raise one of their hands and grab the rope. They don't try to lift themselves up; they simply grab the rope as a last conscious action. Similarly, some put their hands near their necks or touch their faces, others grab their clothes.

Spoiler: Personal perspective

Now that I think about it, maybe I would do the same. Not because I'm trying to save myself or anything like that; I don't have the strength to lift myself up and "climb" to the anchor point. I am weak physically.
It would simply be "more comfortable" for me to have one hand grabbing the rope and the other holding the knot behind my neck in position, rather than having my arms hanging limply at my sides.

Some users are even thinking about handcuffing themselves; I couldn't tolerate this, because my SI (survival instinct) would escalate to the maximum. Having my hands free would give me more peace of mind.

What do you think?

I just interpret it as fear or people trying to lower themselves gently into the noose to avoid any sudden shock/pain to their head.

That's what it looks like to me, as most people find a sudden drop to be a bit scary - like drop hanging.

But who knows really? Maybe they subconsciously want a way to bail out if they change their mind. But in reality, very few people would have the upper body strength to climb up the rope. I do pull ups frequently, but I'm not confident I could do it in that scenario, especially if your breathing is restricted etc.

 

[HappyApplepie]

I don't have an exact answer... perhaps there could be a reason from a psychological perspective.

He put the knot behind his neck and then grabbed the rope to step away from the object where he was standing. He kept everything in the correct position after adjusting the ligature.

His hands release the rope when he loses consciousness and the phases of rigidity begin to be observed. (Decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity)

It might even be a reflex; when they are already hanging, they raise one of their hands and grab the rope. They don't try to lift themselves up; they simply grab the rope as a last conscious action. Similarly, some put their hands near their necks or touch their faces, others grab their clothes.

Spoiler: Personal perspective

Now that I think about it, maybe I would do the same. Not because I'm trying to save myself or anything like that; I don't have the strength to lift myself up and "climb" to the anchor point. I am weak physically.
It would simply be "more comfortable" for me to have one hand grabbing the rope and the other holding the knot behind my neck in position, rather than having my arms hanging limply at my sides.

Some users are even thinking about handcuffing themselves; I couldn't tolerate this, because my SI (survival instinct) would escalate to the maximum. Having my hands free would give me more peace of mind.

What do you think?

I hadn't even thought of that! Now that I consider it, it might actually be uncomfortable to just let your hand hang loosely. It's perhaps a bit like sitting on a bus and resting your arm on the armrest instead of just letting it hang by your side.
I'm not so sure about the fear aspect, though. I think if someone were afraid, they'd be much more likely to clutch their neck or at least keep their hand close to it.
There is one other thing I noticed, however: in the video, during the three or four seconds while the person is still conscious, there is no sign of a struggle or fear. It looks as though they are gradually relaxing (and then the spasms set in)

 

[HappyApplepie]

I don't have an exact answer... perhaps there could be a reason from a psychological perspective.

He put the knot behind his neck and then grabbed the rope to step away from the object where he was standing. He kept everything in the correct position after adjusting the ligature.

His hands release the rope when he loses consciousness and the phases of rigidity begin to be observed. (Decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity)

It might even be a reflex; when they are already hanging, they raise one of their hands and grab the rope. They don't try to lift themselves up; they simply grab the rope as a last conscious action. Similarly, some put their hands near their necks or touch their faces, others grab their clothes.

Spoiler: Personal perspective

Now that I think about it, maybe I would do the same. Not because I'm trying to save myself or anything like that; I don't have the strength to lift myself up and "climb" to the anchor point. I am weak physically.
It would simply be "more comfortable" for me to have one hand grabbing the rope and the other holding the knot behind my neck in position, rather than having my arms hanging limply at my sides.

Some users are even thinking about handcuffing themselves; I couldn't tolerate this, because my SI (survival instinct) would escalate to the maximum. Having my hands free would give me more peace of mind.

What do you think?

I think we've covered everything!
Thanks for your help; I'm really grateful.
Take care, buddy

 

[HappyApplepie]

Hi @JesiBel . I'm just writing because I've decided to go with FSH.
I have the location and the rope, and I know the knots, too!
I do have some doubts, though—I weigh 60 kg, and my rope is 14 mm in diameter . Won't the pressure on the neck be too low?

 

[HappyApplepie]

I don't have an exact answer... perhaps there could be a reason from a psychological perspective.

He put the knot behind his neck and then grabbed the rope to step away from the object where he was standing. He kept everything in the correct position after adjusting the ligature.

His hands release the rope when he loses consciousness and the phases of rigidity begin to be observed. (Decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity)

It might even be a reflex; when they are already hanging, they raise one of their hands and grab the rope. They don't try to lift themselves up; they simply grab the rope as a last conscious action. Similarly, some put their hands near their necks or touch their faces, others grab their clothes.

Spoiler: Personal perspective

Now that I think about it, maybe I would do the same. Not because I'm trying to save myself or anything like that; I don't have the strength to lift myself up and "climb" to the anchor point. I am weak physically.
It would simply be "more comfortable" for me to have one hand grabbing the rope and the other holding the knot behind my neck in position, rather than having my arms hanging limply at my sides.

Some users are even thinking about handcuffing themselves; I couldn't tolerate this, because my SI (survival instinct) would escalate to the maximum. Having my hands free would give me more peace of mind.

What do you think?

Oh, and it's braided.

Google képkeresési találat: https://greplgroup.com/uploads/media/o_1j44krqpo13rl12v8nb5us0knea.webp

(the image is for illustration purposes, though I think you already know everything)

 

[JesiBel]

Hi @JesiBel . I'm just writing because I've decided to go with FSH.
I have the location and the rope, and I know the knots, too!
I do have some doubts, though—I weigh 60 kg, and my rope is 14 mm in diameter . Won't the pressure on the neck be too low?

Hello!

If you position the ligature correctly and use the proper knots (as we discussed in previous posts), your weight is more than sufficient. The rope thickness is also good.

In the videos from the thread I shared with you earlier, there are very thin, underweight young women who successfully attempted without complications.

Always test everything, even if the tree and branches look sturdy. Check to ensure it isn't a fragile dead tree.

(Edit: I don't remember if your anchor point was a tree ?)

Spoiler

Thread 'Trees to use for hanging - from a tree expert'

Rope throwing techniques (videos) to reach a high tree branch

Remember, you must be 100% sure of your decision; once you kick the chair away, there is no turning back. Few have the strength to try to grab onto something or free themselves somehow. Consciousness is lost in seconds, often very very quickly. Be careful; think everything through thoroughly.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Hello!

If you position the ligature correctly and use the proper knots (as we discussed in previous posts), your weight is more than sufficient. The rope thickness is also good.

In the videos from the thread I shared with you earlier, there are very thin, underweight young women who successfully attempted without complications.

Always test everything, even if the tree and branches look sturdy. Check to ensure it isn't a fragile dead tree.

(Edit: I don't remember if your anchor point was a tree ?)

Spoiler

Thread 'Trees to use for hanging - from a tree expert'

Rope throwing techniques (videos) to reach a high tree branch

Remember, you must be 100% sure of your decision; once you kick the chair away, there is no turning back. Few have the strength to try to grab onto something or free themselves somehow. Consciousness is lost in seconds, often very very quickly. Be careful; think everything through thoroughly.

Okay!
Just one more thing: the rope needs to be braided, right? (Sorry if we've already discussed this).
It's just that, online, the ropes depicted for executions and suicides are usually twisted ones.

Google képkeresési találat: https://greplgroup.com/uploads/media/o_1j44krqpo13rl12v8nb5us0knea.webp

 

[JesiBel]

Okay!
Just one more thing: the rope needs to be braided, right? (Sorry if we've already discussed this).
It's just that, online, the ropes depicted for executions and suicides are usually twisted ones.

Google képkeresési találat: https://greplgroup.com/uploads/media/o_1j44krqpo13rl12v8nb5us0knea.webp

Braided ropes have a smooth surface (the ligature will slide better). Twisted ropes have a rough surface and they are somewhat more rigid due to their construction (fibers twisted into yarns, yarns twisted into strands, strands are twisted together to form the rope...)

If you still have doubts, you can buy a twisted rope and test for yourself which one seems most suitable for you (always remember to check the Working Load Limit, your weight must not exceed that number)

Honestly, I don't think you're ready yet; take your time to do some research using the search bar. There's no point in going in circles. Take it easy. Good luck your planning.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Braided ropes have a smooth surface (the ligature will slide better). Twisted ropes have a rough surface and they are somewhat more rigid due to their construction (fibers twisted into yarns, yarns twisted into strands, strands are twisted together to form the rope...)

If you still have doubts, you can buy a twisted rope and test for yourself which one seems most suitable for you (always remember to check the Working Load Limit, your weight must not exceed that number)

Honestly, I don't think you're ready yet; take your time to do some research using the search bar. There's no point in going in circles. Take it easy. Good luck your planning.

Alright! I see what you mean! I feel prepared; I just asked to be extra sure . As you said, braided ropes are better because the ligature slides more easily.
But since you brought it up, I have a question: What is the hangman's noose used for? Before I found this site, it never would have occurred to me that the hangman's noose wasn't suitable. (That question isn't really important—just curiosity.)

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Braided ropes have a smooth surface (the ligature will slide better). Twisted ropes have a rough surface and they are somewhat more rigid due to their construction (fibers twisted into yarns, yarns twisted into strands, strands are twisted together to form the rope...)

If you still have doubts, you can buy a twisted rope and test for yourself which one seems most suitable for you (always remember to check the Working Load Limit, your weight must not exceed that number)

Honestly, I don't think you're ready yet; take your time to do some research using the search bar. There's no point in going in circles. Take it easy. Good luck your planning.

Do you think it matters if it has an internal core or not?

I have one that is coreless spiral braid. 12mm diameter with a rating of 15Kn or 1.5 metric tons tensile strength.

I think I read a comment from someone on here saying that coreless might actually be better for our purpose. But I can't remember who said it.

 

[JesiBel]

Do you think it matters if it has an internal core or not?

I have one that is coreless spiral braid. 12mm diameter with a rating of 15Kn or 1.5 metric tons tensile strength.

I think I read a comment from someone on here saying that coreless might actually be better for our purpose. But I can't remember who said it.

It depends on your setup. A cored rope is stiffer and more rigid; if you're using a door as your anchor point, you might not be able to flatten the rope against the frame when trying to close the door. It is also a bit more difficult to tie the knots tight with them, due to their internal structure.

(In the videos I made for this thread, I used a 10 mm doble braided -with core- polyester rope.)

In any case, braided ropes, with or without a core (hollow braid/single braid), are a good option. I have both types; it's a matter of personal preference.

In my case I prefer the coreless ones; I feel more comfortable maneuvering with them. For the attempt, I'll use the 12 mm single braided polypropylene rope (the purple one with colorful flecks that I almost always use for photos)

 

[AreWeWinning]

It's just that, online, the ropes depicted for executions and suicides are usually twisted ones.

As you say, "depicted". These depictions and illustrations are usually not concerned with the practical or technical aspects of hanging. They are either fictional or for entertainment purposes, or discuss other topics, e.g. suicide prevention or the mental and emotional aspects of suicide.

I think it's a historical thing. In the past, when synthetic materials weren't commonly available, thick, twisted, natural ropes were used for execution hangings (long-drop hangings). This image just lived on, and this is how people picture hangings. That's all. But that doesn't mean that a twisted rope is the best for suspension hanging when there is no drop, and when stronger, better, braided ropes are available that are more effective and nicer to work with.

That said, you can use a twisted rope if you want. It doesn't really matter as long as it's strong enough.

Do you think it matters if it has an internal core or not?

I have one that is coreless spiral braid. 12mm diameter with a rating of 15Kn or 1.5 metric tons tensile strength.

I think I read a comment from someone on here saying that coreless might actually be better for our purpose. But I can't remember who said it.

I think this is one of those things that is not worth overthinking. Some double-braided ropes are stiffer, some are softer. Some solid-braided ropes (no inner core) are stiffer, some are softer. In general, ropes without an inner core can be softer, but this isn't always true. It depends on many things, like the rope's construction, exact type of braiding, material, and quality. For all practical purposes, what matters is:

• Is it an actual rope?
• Is it strong enough?
• Can you tie knots in it?

If the answers are "yes" to those questions, it's a good rope and fine to use.

 

[HappyApplepie]

Ahogy mondod, "ábrázolt". Ezek az ábrázolások és illusztrációk általában nem az akasztás gyakorlati vagy technikai vonatkozásaival foglalkoznak. Vagy kitalált történetek, vagy szórakoztató jellegűek, vagy más témákat tárgyalnak, pl. az öngyilkosság megelőzését vagy az öngyilkosság mentális és érzelmi vonatkozásait.

Szerintem ez egy történelmi dolog. Régebben, amikor a szintetikus anyagok nem voltak általánosan elérhetőek, vastag, sodrott, természetes köteleket használtak a kivégzésekhez (hosszú erejű függesztésekhez). Ez a kép tovább élt, és így képzelik el az emberek a függesztéseket. Ennyi az egész. De ez nem jelenti azt, hogy a sodrott kötél a legjobb a függesztéshez, ha nincs ereszkedés, és ha erősebb, jobb, fonott kötelek állnak rendelkezésre, amelyek hatékonyabbak és kellemesebb velük dolgozni.

I see!
Is the "hangman's knot" the same thing? That's the one always depicted; in fact, I believe it is officially recognized as a symbol of execution and suicide. Until I found this site, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind to use a different knot.
In practical terms, why is the Arbor knot better than the hangman's noose?

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I see!
Is the "hangman's knot" the same thing? That's the one always depicted; in fact, I believe it is officially recognized as a symbol of execution and suicide. Until I found this site, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind to use a different knot.
In practical terms, why is the Arbor knot better than the hangman's noose?

The Arbor knot is not better than the hangman's knot. Today, most excecutions by hanging are carried out in Iran and they use the hangman's knot. They lift people up by cranes or they hang them with short drop, not long drop. I guess the hangman's knot is an US-American invention, popular from Wild-West movies. It's funny that they use it in Iran, were they hate the USA.
The friction in a hangman's knot is a little higher than in an eyelet. This causes a little less pressure on the neck, but the pressure is high enough anyway if you hang full.
The Germans hanged many people during WW2 and they used very simple knots with little friction.

 

[AreWeWinning]

Is the "hangman's knot" the same thing?

In short, yes. It's a very robust knot that was used for long-drop hangings. It's also the knot that people traditionally associate with hangings.

In practical terms, why is the Arbor knot better than the hangman's noose?

In practical terms, the Arbor knot can be better because:

• It's simpler to tie.
  • However, you can still use another knot if you know how to tie it.
• It's easier to adjust and tie at the correct height.
  • However, you can still use another knot as long as it's tied at the right height. To manipulate the height of the noose, you can also adjust the rope at the anchoring side.
• It slides better and might cinch around your neck more tightly.
  • Still, as @Gustav Hartmann said, in full suspension, there is a lot of pressure on the neck, so any knot will work – even the Hangman's Knot – as long as you pull it tight around your neck before you step off.

The Arbor knot is just a safe and easy default option, but you can use a different knot if you prefer. Some other options:

• Running Bowline
• Poacher's Knot
• Scaffold Knot
• Uni Knot

The Uni Knot can be tied from 3 to 5 turns. If you tie 3 turns, it's called the Gallow's Knot and it's the same knot as the Scaffold Knot, just tied differently.

Here is an image from The Ashley Book of Knots, which also shows some of these knots:

 

[HappyApplepie]

In short, yes. It's a very robust knot that was used for long-drop hangings. It's also the knot that people traditionally associate with hangings.



In practical terms, the Arbor knot can be better because:

• It's simpler to tie.
  • However, you can still use another knot if you know how to tie it.
• It's easier to adjust and tie at the correct height.
  • However, you can still use another knot as long as it's tied at the right height. To manipulate the height of the noose, you can also adjust the rope at the anchoring side.
• It slides better and might cinch around your neck more tightly.
  • Still, as @Gustav Hartmann said, in full suspension, there is a lot of pressure on the neck, so any knot will work – even the Hangman's Knot – as long as you pull it tight around your neck before you step off.

The Arbor knot is just a safe and easy default option, but you can use a different knot if you prefer. Some other options:

• Running Bowline
• Poacher's Knot
• Scaffold Knot
• Uni Knot

The Uni Knot can be tied from 3 to 5 turns. If you tie 3 turns, it's called the Gallow's Knot and it's the same knot as the Scaffold Knot, just tied differently.

Here is an image from The Ashley Book of Knots, which also shows some of these knots:

View attachment 209680

Oh, I see!
By the way, there's one more thing I'm curious about: Could the rope be so thin that it doesn't cut off my artery? I know it has a low load-bearing capacity—and even if it does hold, it's more painful—but is it possible for it to be simply too thin to constrict the flow enough? (This is just curius)