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RichardFirst
Specialist
- Jan 16, 2021
- 385
Good evening, sir. Well done on your acquisition. I hope that you don't need it, but it's an ace in the hole to keep.
Could you PM me the source, if you don't mind?
Could you PM me the source, if you don't mind?
soontobedone
Leave blank
- Feb 27, 2023
- 314
Hi. Just curious, what is expected over the three days?
Got my SN but nervous about success rate etc.
Got my SN but nervous about success rate etc.
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
The 3 days is for Phenobarbital. Likely you'll be in a coma for the whole process.
But if you're using SN don't worry that works completely differently to Phenobarbital. While described to be not as pleasant (don't worry most of its unpleasant side effects can be mitigated with benzos and pain killers), it's much quicker acting compared to Pheno. (With SN, death can occur in as little as 40 mins up to 4 hours.)
Best way to increase your success rate with SN method you can read in another topic I've made below:
My Advice on Oral Overdosing
I feel like this needs to be said because we've been getting a lot of oral overdosing related topics with unreliable or practically useless substances in far too small quantities. So here's my advice on oral overdosing. 1) Is it a barbiturate? (e.g. Pentobarbital, Phenobarbital) 2) Is it an...
sanctioned-suicide.net
It also has a handy graph for how much SN you should take in relation to your body weight. Also while I didn't mention it in my advice thread, it's worth making 1-2 backup glasses of SN to drink if in case you still vomit even after taking an antiemetic.
Also worth reading is Stan's Guide to SN:
Stan's Guide to SN.
Sodium Nitrite (SN) Method Introduction This document has been designed to give a full understanding of SN, what it is, how it works and how to use it. It will use the most simplest way of delivering this information as many members do not have English as their first language. Therefore using...
sanctioned-suicide.net
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
20 grams of pheno probably will kill someone. If you survive the phenobarbital attempt, you will be at risk for pulmonary edema, cardiogenic shock, and embolism. Phenobarbital is not like N. When N was synthesized, it was termed a "full agonist" for GABA-A receptors. Phenobarbital is a semi-agonist. High doses produce deep sedation but do not guarantee respiratory depression enough for asphyxia. The cause of death in phenobarbital overdose is usually hemodynamic effects. Still you have a good sedative now. It may be a good idea to take phenobarbital with a negative inotropic.
ksp
Arcanist
- Oct 1, 2022
- 435
lol
excellent work! i appreciate your experiments, carefully monitoring your own results. don't know how long you've been doing this research, and i hope you didn't suffer too much because of mistakes and miscalculations. you are quite knowledgeable by now (you missed your calling - should have been a doctor :). i'm having a lot of problems sleeping as well - took zopiclone for many years, every day, just to be able to keep a decent work schedule but never got addicted to it; i'm also having some gastrointestinal issues caused by horrible eating habits, but not too bad considering other problems
after this much work that you put into this, i'm thinking of updating my table of Peaceful Suicide Methods, to include Barbital-100 (based on Phenobarbital). i think i'd place it right after nembutal: personally i would gladly replace speed with peacefulness - nembutal (pentobarbital) death is within hours vs Barbital-100 (phenobarbital) which is days. but there are a lot of people that can't wait 3 or more days for death probably for being found early and not living alone, so i'll probably put it right above SN, at 100% peacefulness
again, thanks for keeping us updated, and hope we'll be able to add one more reliable and available peaceful method! too bad the world forces us to be our own guineapigs, without scientific monitoring and terrible consequences, which is simply despicable for our 'compassionate' society…
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
Thank you, I appreciate hearing from someone who's actually more knowledgeable on the subject of drugs than I am. The highest I've ever heard of someone surviving a Phenobarbital overdose was 16g, which is why I assumed anything 17g and above would be a good shot. Now of course admittedly I have no idea of the overall health conditions (plus body mass) of the guy who survived the 16g overdose. I myself suffer from coeliac disease, and in fear of thinking my body may have absorption problems because of coeliac, I planned on going overkill with taking 17-20g of Pheno in addition at least 10gs of a potent opioid like Isotonitazene (I'm actually going to order 20g), along with some benzos mixed in grapefruit juice (I've read that can increase the potency of benzodiazepines and barbiturates). Do you think opioids would help much or would I still need a negative inotropic along the lines of a beta blocker?
If you think 20gs of Pheno aren't exactly good odds, do you think I should start recommending people order 3 boxes so they can take up to 30g of Pheno instead? Also I'd appreciate if you could review and give me your thoughts on this topic I've made about my advice on oral overdosing (I may need to make an updated version of it if lots of revisions are required):
My Advice on Oral Overdosing
I feel like this needs to be said because we've been getting a lot of oral overdosing related topics with unreliable or practically useless substances in far too small quantities. So here's my advice on oral overdosing. 1) Is it a barbiturate? (e.g. Pentobarbital, Phenobarbital) 2) Is it an...
sanctioned-suicide.net
XD Don't worry about it, I feel fine now after my mishap from yesterday. Also since taking the actual Prednisolone I still feel pretty good (ironically better than when I took the Phenobarbital).lol
excellent work! i appreciate your experiments, carefully monitoring your own results. don't know how long you've been doing this research, and i hope you didn't suffer too much because of mistakes and miscalculations. you are quite knowledgeable by now (you missed your calling - should have been a doctor :). i'm having a lot of problems sleeping as well - took zopiclone for many years, every day, just to be able to keep a decent work schedule but never got addicted to it; i'm also having some gastrointestinal issues caused by horrible eating habits, but not too bad considering other problems
after this much work that you put into this, i'm thinking of updating my table of Peaceful Suicide Methods, to include Barbital-100 (based on Phenobarbital). i think i'd place it right after nembutal: personally i would gladly replace speed with peacefulness - nembutal (pentobarbital) death is within hours vs Barbital-100 (phenobarbital) which is days. but there are a lot of people that can't wait 3 or more days for death probably for being found early and not living alone, so i'll probably put it right above SN, at 100% peacefulness
again, thanks for keeping us updated, and hope we'll be able to add one more reliable and available peaceful method! too bad the world forces us to be our own guineapigs, without scientific monitoring and terrible consequences, which is simply despicable for our 'compassionate' society…
While I did used to do research before coming onto Sanctioned Suicide, SaSu is what really helped me out the most in researching viable methods and got me into researching more than I used to. There's a whole wealth of information on this forum. Admittedly I do feel kind of tapped out on researching methods now, more of my concentration is going into potential useful sources on the dark web. I've even written up a very detailed dark web tutorial I would love to share with you guys, but I'm still waiting for approval from the higher ups before posting it.
I appreciate my work is helping you with your work, but I'd also recommend getting @Sunset Limited's opinion and input on your work, because unlike me, sounds like he's an actual expert in drugs. ;^^
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
I really have no idea about the phenobarbital dosage sorry. We only have case reports of phenobarbital OD. There may be LD50 studies in animals, but they are animals after all. It's a good idea to combine it with an opiate. It seems GABA-A receptor agonists and opiates together effective in airway collapse. At least it is for propofol and fentanyl. Fentanyl and propofol are used together in upper respiratory endoscopy. Fentanyl helps in reducing the needed dose of propofol. Isotonitazene + phenobarbital is a good combination.
My method is propofol. So I've been reading about anesthesiology and anesthetics for the past 3 years. There are many scientific studies on the sedation potential of barbiturates. Also OD case reports.
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Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
Ah wow I never knew that was what surgeons used for sedation for upper endoscopies. I had an endoscopy after I had a case of gastroesophageal reflux disease that I told my GP the meds they were giving me weren't helping. (It was a lie, the Lansoprazole was working, but the Omeprazole made me felt worse and they kept me on Omeprazole for so long I was worried what damages GERD was doing to my body due to be being left untreated for so long.)
I chose to have the throat spray over sedation because when talking to one of the nurses about it, he said I could do sedation if the throat spray didn't work out, but I couldn't do it the other way round. My auntie also had an endoscopy some time ago, but she was really fighting off the surgeons even when she was heavily sedated so in the end they couldn't perform the whole operation on her. I was concerned the same might have happened with me if I went with sedation first which was why I went with throat spray.
The process was very uncomfortable (I didn't knew if that was due to me not swallowing the throat spray quick enough and let too much of it get absorbed into my mouth), but thankfully they managed to perform the operation successfully, and the endoscopy was what helped them find out I had coeliac disease.
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
Actually, upper respiratory endoscopy is different. Obstructive sleep apnea patients are sedated with propofol and fentanyl for induce airway collapse. Airway collapse is associated with propofol plasma concentration. It's about the patient's potential to protect the airway.
In the country I live in, endoscopy is usually done with a throat spray. Contains lidocaine. Propofol sedation is the best option for endoscopy. An experience close to general anesthesia. Patients do not remember anything. Propofol is antiemetic also. No nausea, no dizziness. Still, anesthesiologists prefer midazolam because it is easier to manage the patient. Midazolam is an uncomfortable option for the patient. Conscious sedation. Nausea and dizziness are possible. I guess that's what they used for your auntie. I know coeliac is badass. I wish the best for you.
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
Ah whoops my bad. ;^^
I was originally curious in trying Midazolam out, but reading about the memory loss it can cause you put me off from trying. Glad I didn't try it.
Thank you. :)
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
In overdose, all barbiturates cause respiratory depression and i would like to see a source that says otherwise. They bind to the GABA-A receptor, increase the time of the chloride ion channel opening and lead to the hyperpolarization of the neuron, meaning it can't initiate or conduct an action potential, that is, the neuron is unable to communicate with the nearby neurons and so on... until the brain "forget" how to breathe.
Of course, depending on how lipophilic they are (how fast they penetrate the brain) and other properties related to their structure (how potent they are in modulating other voltage-gated ion channels thus affecting other neurotransmitters), the overdose for N is smaller and takes less time than the overdose of phenobarbital, but both (as with all barbiturates) they are lethal in overdose by themselves. To speed up the phenobarbital (or any other barbiturate), one can use another CNS depressant to which barbiturates have synergistic effects.
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
I read an article 1-2 years ago on the effect of pentobarbital and phenobarbital on GABA-A receptors. These two agents do not bind to receptors in the same way. Pentobarbital was called a "full agonist", while phenobarbital was called a "partial agonist" (I am sorry I think it must be partial). Yes N and F are barbiturates but not same thing. For example, benzos are also GABA-A receptor agonists but do not bind like pentobarbital. Therefore, their effectiveness is limited. GABA-A receptors are a complex structure. I finally found the article. This is a very old read.
"There are interesting differences in the effects of anticonvulsant and anesthetic barbiturates on GABAergic transmission (for review see Olsen, 2002; and Porter et al., 2012). Phenobarbital is modestly less potent than pentobarbital in enhancing GABA responses (half maximal effective concentration [EC50] values to enhance GABA-activated chloride current in hippocampal neurons, 12 μm vs. 3.4 μm, respectively; ffrench-Mullen et al., 1993; see also, Mathers et al., 2007). However, as noted previously, at anticonvulsant doses phenobarbital is less sedative than pentobarbital, which is difficult to explain by assuming that both drugs act as full agonists at the same type of GABAA receptors. One explanation for this important difference may be that the two structurally distinct barbiturates influence different GABAA-receptor subtypes expressed in different brain regions with different potencies. Thus, it has been found in some experiments that pentobarbital enhances GABA binding in all brain regions, whereas phenobarbital enhances GABA binding only in some regions (Olsen, 2002). Indeed, a recent study found that although pentobarbital affected GABAA receptor responses in both neocortex and thalamus, phenobarbital was selective for neocortex and had effects on thalamic neurons only at very high, potentially toxic doses (Mathers et al., 2007). Nonselective depression of neocortex, thalamus (and other areas) by pentobarbital, and more selective depression of the cortex by phenobarbital could potentially be a factor to explain the relative lack of CNS depression produced by phenobarbital. As of yet, a coherent explanation of these differential actions in terms of the differing sensitivity of regionally expressed GABAA receptors isoforms is not available. An alternative explanation is that the maximal enhancement of GABAA receptor chloride current produced by phenobarbital is less than that of pentobarbital, so that phenobarbital can be described as a "partial agonist" compared to the full agonist pentobarbital (ffrench-Mullen et al., 1993; Rho et al., 1996). More generally, as discussed below, barbiturates have at least three actions on GABAA receptors that are likely mediated by binding to distinct sites on the receptor complex. There may be differences in the relative activity of phenobarbital and pentobarbital at these sites that account for their pharmacologic differences. In addition to the possibility that phenobarbital is a partial agonist, the drug may also cause channel blocking effects that limit the degree to which it activates GABAA-receptor chloride currents (see below). However, phenobarbital only causes this effect at millimolar concentrations that are even greater than those required for pentobarbital block."
"There are interesting differences in the effects of anticonvulsant and anesthetic barbiturates on GABAergic transmission (for review see Olsen, 2002; and Porter et al., 2012). Phenobarbital is modestly less potent than pentobarbital in enhancing GABA responses (half maximal effective concentration [EC50] values to enhance GABA-activated chloride current in hippocampal neurons, 12 μm vs. 3.4 μm, respectively; ffrench-Mullen et al., 1993; see also, Mathers et al., 2007). However, as noted previously, at anticonvulsant doses phenobarbital is less sedative than pentobarbital, which is difficult to explain by assuming that both drugs act as full agonists at the same type of GABAA receptors. One explanation for this important difference may be that the two structurally distinct barbiturates influence different GABAA-receptor subtypes expressed in different brain regions with different potencies. Thus, it has been found in some experiments that pentobarbital enhances GABA binding in all brain regions, whereas phenobarbital enhances GABA binding only in some regions (Olsen, 2002). Indeed, a recent study found that although pentobarbital affected GABAA receptor responses in both neocortex and thalamus, phenobarbital was selective for neocortex and had effects on thalamic neurons only at very high, potentially toxic doses (Mathers et al., 2007). Nonselective depression of neocortex, thalamus (and other areas) by pentobarbital, and more selective depression of the cortex by phenobarbital could potentially be a factor to explain the relative lack of CNS depression produced by phenobarbital. As of yet, a coherent explanation of these differential actions in terms of the differing sensitivity of regionally expressed GABAA receptors isoforms is not available. An alternative explanation is that the maximal enhancement of GABAA receptor chloride current produced by phenobarbital is less than that of pentobarbital, so that phenobarbital can be described as a "partial agonist" compared to the full agonist pentobarbital (ffrench-Mullen et al., 1993; Rho et al., 1996). More generally, as discussed below, barbiturates have at least three actions on GABAA receptors that are likely mediated by binding to distinct sites on the receptor complex. There may be differences in the relative activity of phenobarbital and pentobarbital at these sites that account for their pharmacologic differences. In addition to the possibility that phenobarbital is a partial agonist, the drug may also cause channel blocking effects that limit the degree to which it activates GABAA-receptor chloride currents (see below). However, phenobarbital only causes this effect at millimolar concentrations that are even greater than those required for pentobarbital block."
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intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
In the same paper ( W. Loscher and M. A. Rogawski) for example on page 2 it says:
"The different pharmacologic effects of barbiturates depend on the administered dose and the resultant CNS depression with increasing brain concentrations. Therefore, with increasing doses all barbiturates induce anticonvulsant and anxiolytic activity, sedation, hypnosis, general anesthesia, and, at overdosage, death by respiratory depression"
"The different pharmacologic effects of barbiturates depend on the administered dose and the resultant CNS depression with increasing brain concentrations. Therefore, with increasing doses all barbiturates induce anticonvulsant and anxiolytic activity, sedation, hypnosis, general anesthesia, and, at overdosage, death by respiratory depression"
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Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
In another article I read, the cause of death due to phenobarbital is mostly not respiratory arrest. It is hemodynamic effects. Of course it has to be dose related. Seems to be the point is dose.
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
Yes. I totally agree that phenobarbital is weaker than N, that's why i said that the lathal dose of N is smaller than for phenobarbital and also the time to death is shorter with N than for phenobarbital. But having this infomation and not completely disregard phenobabrbital just because is weaker, empower people to make their own choices.
Right, hemodynamic effects are a side-effect of all barbiturates, they cause, among other things, hypotension. But that happens, just like the respiratory arrest or the cardiac arrest (which is the actual cause of death anyway), while in a deep coma.
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
Yes but we are just sharing our info. It is about probability. I think Shadow was right. If someone survived with 17 grams, 30 grams can be good idea.
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
I think it's important to know why that person failed with, i think it was, 16g before jumping to 30g but sure, 30g is a high enough dose.
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
Just in case if it helps you guys out, I've found my source where someone said lethal dose recovery is possible up to 16g:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/phenobarbital.88594/#post-1619873
Also I want to apologize to everyone that I said black out should occur after 30-60 mins. According to @Alex6216, unconsciousness comes about after a few hours:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...thal-to-die-with-painless.93416/#post-1645270
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/phenobarbital.88594/#post-1619873
Also I want to apologize to everyone that I said black out should occur after 30-60 mins. According to @Alex6216, unconsciousness comes about after a few hours:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...thal-to-die-with-painless.93416/#post-1645270
Sunset Limited
I believe in Sunset Limited
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,177
Making it 30 grams can also shorten the onset of action. Plasma and effect site concentration will increase faster.
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
I have taken pheno 2 times: one was 2x100mg, the second one 8x100mg; in both cases it definitely took less than an hour to fall asleep.
Thanks for reporting this. I can't wait till my package gets here.
Did you feel dizzy or uncomfortable at all? Or was it just like falling asleep naturally?
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
Not uncomfortable but dizzy yes. It's not like when you're naturally sleepy.
spacehardware
Unsubscribing soon
- Feb 21, 2022
- 101
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
o__O Christ you have to be careful when taking more than 400mg. Coz I've read 400mg should be the maximum dose an adult can take.
How did you feel after taking the 800mg dose? Better or worse than compared to the 200mg dose?
I pm'd you. :)
intr0verse
Experienced
- Jan 29, 2021
- 218
Obviously, the 800mg dose put me to sleep for longer and the effects took longer to wear off. Also the sleep was very deep; actually during that sleep, several family members came to my bedroom trying to wake me up and even look to see if i'm still breathing...so deep it was, i didn't felt anything. I don't quite remember the lenght of the sleep but i think it was 16 hours (it may depend from one person to another) non-stop plus sleeping on and off for just a couple of hours, for the next 2 days..
Back then i had 10 boxes (sourced locally, source not available anymore) with 30x100mg each, that's 30g and i've only used 1 blister (10 tablets). Unfortunately, on a promise that i will get N, i have thrown it away...and now...i'm literally fkd. :)
Back then i had 10 boxes (sourced locally, source not available anymore) with 30x100mg each, that's 30g and i've only used 1 blister (10 tablets). Unfortunately, on a promise that i will get N, i have thrown it away...and now...i'm literally fkd. :)
Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
Man I understand your frustration in that situation. If you ever need any help getting more Phenobarbital, I'm more than happy to share my source with you in private.
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