Discussion How can you get a child?

[foxdie]

I don't understand how your reply relates to my post. Did you mean it for me?

Nope my bad was meant for @Wayfaerer post #115

 

[woxihuanni]

Not everyone is fucked up like we are.

Yeah, some have it so good... Not by dint of hard work or integrity of character either, not necessarily or often.

 

[pssysteff]

No, you are incorrect.

@Life_and_Death made a perfectly valid point and the fact that you do not aknowledge their argument, proves to me that you are disingenuous and most likely created an account on SS to stir up shit on purpose.

(The Ignore button is a beautiful thing!)

Tell me his argument but in your own words.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

Here us something I've learnt on ss. If you want your thread to blow up and get lots of responses, make it about one of these two topics:

• SN criticism, whether sensible or not.
• Anti-natalism, extra emphasis on insulting parents.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Here us something I've learnt on ss. If you want your thread to blow up and get lots of responses, make it about one of these two topics:

• SN criticism, whether sensible or not.
• Anti-natalism, extra emphasis on insulting parents.

i find anything thats closed minded (its this way and thats all there is about it) is a good way to blow stuff up because thats just not the way things are so of course someone is going to argue

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

i find anything thats closed minded (its this way and thats all there is about it) is a good way to blow stuff up because thats just not the way things are so of course someone is going to argue

This is true. I like the kinds of discussions where people bring opinions and facts to the table but remain cordial to one other. This post begins by immediately labeling a lot of users on here as 'evil'. I find that insulting and frankly, very immature. It makes it hard to engage in any beneficial manner with the op.

 

[foxdie]

Maybe I'm too new to SS, I'm not really sure what is going on here lol. To me if the assurtion is: Having children is immoral, then that statement infers this is a choice. My belief is that it is a biological imparative that cannot be avoided. The foundation of this debate is choice verses imparative. Imo no one has answered how it is strictly a choice and are just appealing to 2nd order issues. How is it a choice? ( My last attempt haha)

 

[Life_and_Death]

This is true. I like the kinds of discussions where people bring opinions and facts to the table but remain cordial to one other. This post begins by immediately labeling a lot of users on here as 'evil'. I find that insulting and frankly, very immature. It makes it hard to engage in any beneficial manner with the op.

its one thing to have an opinion its another to be stereotypical. and NO ONE likes that because although its accurate for the majority it isnt accurate for everyone. like how i got accused of stealing from a store because i was a teenage in baggy clothes, god forbid i was an innocent person that hates the cold and doesnt want people looking at me.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

its one thing to have an opinion its another to be stereotypical.

Your point is unclear but.. Here's a stereotype I've noticed repeatedly on this thread. Children raised by wealthy parents get everything they want and by extension, a good, satisfying life. This implies that only financially stable people can be good parents. It is as far from reality as you get.

Suicide rates tend to be higher in wealthy, stable nations as opposed to poorer ones. A lot of rich kids are alcoholics, drug addicts and many take their own lives. A lot of kids from poor families overcome the odds to become successful, stable adults. The idea that wealth equals good parenting is absolute bs. It is a huge oversimplification, like saying "all parents are evil". Sure, some are but the vast majority are not.

 

[Life_and_Death]

"Are all parents completely nuts and evil?"
by using the word "all" they are saying everyone making it stereotypical. this goes right back to the very first post

 

[Lupgevif]

We have a first order fundamental disagreement that having a baby is a choice vs a biological drive. Everything else you mention is second order or third order issues. Also effective contraceptives is only a recent development in human history and isn't available everywhere. There's no condom tree and all methods require access and money. We're all parents before modern contraceptives just plain evil in your eyes?

I made my point about parents being evil or not very clear in the very post you quoted, so I won't bother repeating myself.

 

[Mercury6737]

My belief is that it is a biological imparative that cannot be avoided.

In regards to biological imperative, do you believe that all people have a burning desire to have and nurture children or that all people have a burning desire to have sex? Two entirely different things.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

Having a child is not what they are deciding to do. They are are horny and want sex. Natures little gotcha.

I can't believe there are people who can't understand the drive for sex is not something some people have the ability to resist. Nature planned it that way. You're getting pregnant like it or not.

People are not animals. From the way you framed this argument, I could think that you are a rape apologist because people "do not have the ability to resist their sex drive" and you consider that completely fine.

We live in the 21st century, birth control is obtained easily, you can get condoms everywhere., there is absolutely no excuse for getting pregnant through consensual sex if a person doesn't want to get pregnant.

 

[Life_and_Death]

We live in the 21st century, birth control is obtained easily, you can get condoms everywhere., there is absolutely no excuse for getting pregnant through consensual sex if a person doesn't want to get pregnant.

im not gonna touch the first part but i am going to say that condoms break and no method is 100%

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

[

Only if abortion is legal and available. Sorry to burst your bubble but we women do get pregnant without intending to. If you can't afford an abortion or don't have a clinic available no you do not have any choice, you are going to have a baby. So I assume you are in a lucky position to have both the funds and the clinic available to you.

How do people think you have a choice? If you have sex, no condom or birth contral that WORKS every time, you are probably going to get pregnant if you are fertile.

If you don't want to get pregnant, then you will use a pill or a condom and be aware of the fact that unprotected sex leads to pregnancy.

im not gonna touch the first part but i am going to say that condoms break and no method is 100%

I know that no method is 100%, but he/she framed it as "people have unprotected sex, get pregnant and don't have access to abortion so they're forced to bring unwanted children into the world".

 

[Ghost2211]

I like how people seem to think that abortion is a good solution. Even the concept of abortion let alone the procedure can be absolutely terrifying and traumatizing for people.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

That's true.

They have a choice to use protection. Ignorance cannot be an excuse for pregnancy at this day and age. If they had some basic sex education and decided not to use protection, the fault is theirs and responsibility is theirs because they didn't give a damn if they're going to get pregnant or not.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I like how people seem to think that abortion is a good solution. Even the concept of abortion let alone the procedure can be absolutely terrifying and traumatizing for people.

So do I, especially how people see it's either abortion or giving birth, because pregnancies are bound to happen, like we are living in the 15th century and have never heard of contraceptives.

 

[Life_and_Death]

can i ask about the people that didnt ask for any of that but still has to live with it and maybe they are too scared to go get an abortion. at that point their only option is to have an unwanted child

edit: sorry if the first part is kinda cryptic its a subject thats an extremely bad trigger for me

 

[Ghost2211]

So do I, especially how people see it's either abortion or giving birth, because pregnancies are bound to happen, like we are living in the 15th century and have never heard of contraceptives.

Contraceptives are not always available to people in all parts of the world. There's also the issues of religious obligation to please one's husband, and reproduce.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

Contraceptives are not always available to people in all parts of the world. There's also the issues of religious obligation to please one's husband, and reproduce.

I know they are not available in all parts of the world, but we were talking about the cases where they are available, but people choose to not use them because they are too horny to think about the consequences. I thought that we were talking about children conceived out of the wedlock, because children conceived in marriage are rarely unwanted.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I know they are not available in all parts of the world, but we were talking about the cases where they are available, but people choose to not use them because they are too horny to think about the consequences. I thought that we were talking about children conceived out of the wedlock, because children conceived in marriage are rarely unwanted.

to be fair it wasnt ever specified or even really implied. at least i didnt catch it

 

[Ghost2211]

I know they are not available in all parts of the world, but we were talking about the cases where they are available, but people choose to not use them because they are too horny to think about the consequences. I thought that we were talking about children conceived out of the wedlock, because children conceived in marriage are rarely unwanted.

Two of my three children are unplanned bastards since number three was born during marriage. All three are loved and wanted despite the fact that two were not intentional. I honestly think that perspective on this is a little bit too idealistic. In the end humans are no different than any other animal.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

to be fair it wasnt ever specified or even really implied. at least i didnt catch it

My bad.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

You're lucky you can take them. I went to the emergency room and almost bled to death from them. I also went to the emergency room from an IUD that was unbearably painful like labor pains. I also had repeat bladder infections from a diaphragm.

I am sorry to hear about that, it must have been painful.

 

[Ghost2211]

Also migraines with auras prevent the use of hormone birth control due to stroke risk.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

You're lucky you can take them. I went to the emergency room and almost bled to death from them. I also went to the emergency room from an IUD that was unbearably painful like labor pains. I also had repeat bladder infections from a diaphragm.

But according to some people here I'm just too ignorant to use birth control.

What about condoms? Are you allergic to latex?

 

[foxdie]

In regards to biological imperative, do you believe that all people have a burning desire to have and nurture children or that all people have a burning desire to have sex? Two entirely different things.

I disagree I think they are inherently linked. The imparative is not about nurturing it's only about having. The act of sex is for the purpose of having children. However, I'll admit I don't think I fully understand where people are coming from on this, so maybe I'll just back away from this debate and better inform myself thru other threads on here and maybe come back and debate this later (not lol)

 

[Aap]

This thread is bullshit and obviously started to seek attention/lulz. OP, the logical conclusion is that we should strive for good/remove evil, which, by your logic, means humanity should be eradicated by failure to reproduce.

I will further state the level of arrogance that you display, stating you know better than all of humanity and all of history what the fate of the human race should be, is astounding.

 

[Meditation guide]

People are not animals.

Humans are classified as mammals. Humans have the same features found in all members of this large group. Humans are also classified within: the subgroup of mammals called primates; and the subgroup of primates called apes and in particular the Great Apes. We are very close genetically to chimps.