Discussion How can you get a child?

[Dr Iron Arc]

Well we could always take a page from Kryptonian society and engineer babies in labs while outright banning all natural procreation. Sure the laboratory babies still didn't ask to be born but hey at least they'll be born into a specific role given to them at birth that they'll be perfectly suited to and that they'll enjoy doing. Sure we'd just be setting up a rigid caste system that would destroy the planet through its own inability to evolve but hey, at least the one natural birth that survives ends up being Superman on a different planet.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Are you saying it's easy to be abstinent? Sorry I guess I didn't understand what you meant. You seem way too intelligent to suggest people can willingly be abstinent.

Actually, it is possible technically but it's just not practical. That would require too much discipline and forethought for irresponsible working-class people. I mean what are they going to do instead? Read a book? lmao

 

[Anonymoussn]

You brought them here, that's evil.

Doesn't matter how much you supposedly "care "for them because I can argue that's also selfish. Which it is.
It gives you comfort in having to care for them. Comfort knowing they might be there when you die etc.

Parents have all uses for their kids.
In the US, there is a poor area where parents are known to prostitute their kids for dope.

Just because you or I may not be having good lives does not mean that the person you replied to or anyone elses children aren't.

Some people bring children into the world and do everything for them to make sure that they have happy and comfortable lives. And many do that successfully. I struggle to see how that is evil.

Some people deliberately have children they can't look after properly - and sure, I get the argument that is selfish, but with the person you responded to that clearly isn't the case.

 

[death137]

David Benatar (bless him) quote: "It is curious that while good people go to great length to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place."

 

[not4us]

Knowing about the fact that
people hate people, how can you think of getting a kid?

Are all parents completely nuts and evil?

Surely a lot of parents deserve to be called "nuts" "evil" "selfish cunts" etc. But...

Most people become parents when they are young and stupid, full of illusions and hopes. I doubt you can call them "evil" for that, they just follow "normal" pattern of life. I believe many of them realize their mistake later, but how can they admit it now? How to tell a child that he/she was a big mistake?

Life is hard. Life is painful and pointless shit with the only way out - death. And if one wants to quit life they are only allowed to do so through torture (suicide), battling survival instinct.
Most people realize it far too late.

Giving a birth to a child is always a Russian roulette, you can't guarantee anything.

 

[Life_and_Death]

How to tell a child that he/she was a big mistake

By being a bad parent lol. Personally I think a lot of us would be in a better position if we had parents that cared. It would fix a lot of our problems considering they are the ones the ones that caused it. And for the people where its an outside matter the "good" parent would have given them the tools they need to handle it. I probably won't because of my mental instability but I know if I ever have a child I will teach them that what others think don't matter. And I know that no matter what I'll love them because that's just the kid of person I am.

 

[pssysteff]

Surely a lot of parents deserve to be called "nuts" "evil" "selfish cunts" etc. But...

Most people become parents when they are young and stupid, full of illusions and hopes. I doubt you can call them "evil" for that, they just follow "normal" pattern of life. I believe many of them realize their mistake later, but how can they admit it now? How to tell a child that he/she was a big mistake?

Life is hard. Life is painful and pointless shit with the only way out - death. And if one wants to quit life they are only allowed to do so through torture (suicide), battling survival instinct.
Most people realize it far too late.

Giving a birth to a child is always a Russian roulette, you can't guarantee anything.

I can't understand how you are still defending parents though, after writing that.

Life is too hard, not worth the trouble and I'm just not impressed
-SS member

 

[Life_and_Death]

I can't understand how you are still defending parents though, after writing that.

Life is too hard, not worth the trouble and I'm just not impressed
-SS member

Because not all parents are the same. Just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean everyone is like that. And just because 1 person struggles in life doesn't mean the next will

 

[pssysteff]

Because not all parents are the same. Just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean everyone is like that. And just because 1 person struggles in life doesn't mean the next will

That argument is weak, if anything

 

[Life_and_Death]

That argument is weak, if anything

Idk how facts are weak but yeah sure everyone has their own opinion. You don't like parents and that's your opinion but you really don't need to be mean to others over it

 

[not4us]

I can't understand how you are still defending parents though, after writing that.

I just wouldn't call ALL parents "evil", that's all. And I think I explained why. I am an antinatalist btw.

 

[mapletree]

I misread the title and opened up this thread thinking someone was like trying to figure out how to buy or create a child

 

[not4us]

My children are loved, valued, respected, and live an upper middle class life. I don't beat them or berate them. I hug them and tell them I love them every day. I'm depressed and get over stimulated easily, but I do my best every day and manage to not kill myself despite my urges.

Tell me what I'm doing that is "evil"

I really hope your kids won't end up on this forum.
The point is we can only hope for that. Were they never born, there would be no need to hope for their well-being and no risk of harm.

I do agree though that there are a lot of people who are reproducing that shouldn't but that's not everyone.

I remember reading your posts about how convinced you became of Eternal Recurrence and about your deterministic views.
Now my question is:
Given that there is no guarantee that a new human will have an amazing or even good life, do you still think it's a good idea for some people to reproduce and expose their kids to the possibility of eternal suffering?

 

[timeisnigh]

Some people bring children into the world and do everything for them to make sure that they have happy and comfortable lives. And many do that successfully. I struggle to see how that is evil.

Spoiler

 

[Lupgevif]

I may have misunderstood how passionately you felt about this. Having children is value neutral. Is the sun evil because it allows us to live?

Did the sun choose to burn? Or better yet, is the sun a fucking sentient being able to weigh down the consequences of its actions?

 

[timeisnigh]

Did the sun choose to burn?

Either way, @foxdie * mistakes himself poorly: breeding is not value neutral


*AWESOME user name

 

[Lupgevif]

I don't think most parents are evil, they are just nuts and selfish. Nuts for having unprotected sex while knowing the risks of conceiving (with the exception of victims of rape who get no choice, and poorer people who have little access to contraceptives and sex education); and selfish when they choose to have a baby willingly. Saying they are evil is implying people put new lives into this world purely to see them suffer, for sadism. I can see this happening, but in such small, anecdotal percentages. People just grow up seeing and being taught having children is the natural path of life, therefore they aim for that, but they consider only their own desires and point of views, and disregard the fact that this world is getting worse to live in by the day. They ignore water is running out, employment (something necessary to fit in capitalism) is getting scarcer, there will be less food the more people are born, etc. They are blind to the ruthlessness of their realities, assume it is all natural and just go on with it.

 

[Meditation guide]

That would require too much discipline and fore-thought for dumb people.

I've had unprotected sex when I didn't want to have a baby and I'm not dumb.

 

[foxdie]

Did the sun choose to burn? Or better yet, is the sun a fucking sentient being able to weigh down the consequences of its actions?

Okay fair enough, I made my point inelegantly. My point was that biological drives are not choices. Do you choose to breath?

Either way, @foxdie * mistakes himself poorly: breeding is not value neutral


*AWESOME user name

Biological drives are not choices therefore cannot be good or evil. Is it evil to sleep?

 

[timeisnigh]

I've had unprotected sex when I didn't want to have a baby and I'm not dumb.

But you did an arguably dumb thing

Okay fair enough, I made my point inelegantly. My point was that biological drives are not choices. Do you choose to breath?


Biological drives are not choices therefore cannot be good or evil. Is it evil to sleep?

You need sleep and air. You don't need sex

 

[foxdie]

But also I see there's a lot of debate in this area on here but I am not as heavily invested in this as some. I just don't think having kids is good or evil.

 

[Lupgevif]

Okay fair enough, I made my point inelegantly. My point was that biological drives are not choices. Do you choose to breath?

Almost there, but still a bad point. I die immediately by not breathing, I will never die for not having children. What will happen is that my genes won't be passed on, something my instincts tell me to do. But we humans have become intelligent enough to recognize that 1) we are ruining this planet in ways that will make the future generations suffer worse than we are already suffering 2) there is more than enough people to continue the species, and we are already suffering from over-population, which will require a drastic decrease in numbers to solve. You are more than intelligent to realize not breathing will kill you, not having children is helping the future generations.

But also I see there's a lot of debate in this area on here but I am not as heavily invested in this as some. I just don't think having kids is good or evil.

With this I mostly agree. Having children is deeply ingrained not only in our biological functions, but it is taught to us as the right path we most follow in life since early on. I just think people should consider better how much they can actually provide to children before having one. The world is already full of suffering, and even if you are not the direct cause of suffering for your child, there are many other outside factors that can be.

 

[foxdie]

Almost there, but still a bad point. I die immediately by not breathing, I will never die for not having children. What will happen is that my genes won't be passed on, something my instincts tell me to do. But we humans have become intelligent enough to recognize that 1) we are ruining this planet in ways that will make the future generations suffer worse than we are already suffering 2) there is more than enough people to continue the species, and we are already suffering from over-population, which will require a drastic decrease in numbers to solve. You are more than intelligent to realize not breathing will kill you, not having children is helping the future generations;

I am in no way try to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way but are you a virgin? Have you never been super horny around another super horny person where there is mutual attraction? Maybe I'm weak I guess but that is as hard (no pun intended) to overcome as my damn SI when trying to ctb lol

 

[Deathbydemo]

Honestly the title of this post just gives me really weird vibes...

 

[Ghost2211]

I really hope your kids won't end up on this forum.
The point is we can only hope for that. Were they never born, there would be no need to hope for their well-being and no risk of harm.

I listen to their problems with an open mind, and to be blunt I'm pro choice. Don't take that wrong im not pro suicide and don't want them to die, but once they are adults it's not my right to make that choice for them. We aren't just here because we want to die, but rather because we can't talk to the world about this and nobody accepts our choices.

True but there are always vasectomies and tubal ligation. I think it would be a great idea if we financially incentivized people sterilizing themselves. The kind who would take the offer are the kind you don't want having babies in the first place.

I really wanted children in life. I would have been fine with a tubal if they had paid me to do it, and allowed me to adopt. Adoption is really not accessible to everyone.

 

[Lupgevif]

I am in no way try to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way but are you a virgin? Have you never been super horny around another super horny person where there is mutual attraction? Maybe I'm weak I guess but that is as hard (no pun intended) to overcome as my damn SI when trying to ctb lol

Yeah, I have never been super horny around another super horny person. But don't people carry condoms in their wallets at all times or this just is a regional thing? Aren't there contraceptive methods that can be used AFTER intercourse? I'd talk about abortion, but while it is a right in some countries, it is a crime in others, so not much of a valid point. I am mostly talking about the choice of having a baby, not about the choice having sex. My point is not that people should choose to not have sex, it's that they should choose to do as much as they can to avoid pregnancy (even though no method is 100% efficient). Unprotected sex is irresponsible and stupid no matter how much sex you want to have, and that's even more about STD's than babies. But there are people who choose to have babies, they have sex with the sole intention of conceiving. For example, my parents. A depressed man and a low key narcissistic woman; maybe that's why I am so against having children. Even so, I do have the deep desire to have children myself, I swear I want children so, so much. I just lost the faith in myself, in my parents as grandparents and in this world as a whole. Even if I myself manage to get out this hole I am in, I still don't think I'll ever agree to have a child with someone. I may adopt, since it's someone who's already in this world not by their choice, but even then I don't think I'd be able to properly raise a child. Putting a whole new person here, though? I don't think that's a rational choice. Again, I also don't think who do so is evil, and those who end up pregnant accidentally after sex aren't monsters. Those who don't have children aren't in any higher moral level either. I just think that's the better choice, for everyone.

 

[Harleyyy]

Knowing about the fact that
people hate people, how can you think of getting a kid?

Are all parents completely nuts and evil?

I don't believe they are nuts and evil, slaves of society i'd rather call them. In my community most people get married just to have babies and grow their bloodline, I don't get it.
I think it's right when we say that we didn't ask to be born but still, it's inevitable. It's not like you could've been offered a choice, this goes both ways, i could argue that you didn't have a choice to be born so you're right to leave this place but i could also say that you could never even have to option to be provided with a choice. It's very random.
but personally, I believe that having children is not a good idea. No matter how much you love them or try to provide for them you can't handle all the bad that's going to come their way. I don't think it's worth it to have that journey for 9 months, save for their education, all things they need just to hear "BUT I DIDNT ASK TO BE BORN!"
especially on here, most of us would rather never be born and those who have children are in a dilemma because it is their responsibility. I think the world is full of pro lifers who are going to have kids anyway, humanity won't end if people like us don't reproduce. We are the shitty brain club, let's just keep it to ourselves and save future suicidal people. (Wow that made us sound like superheroes, dievengers, assemble! XD)

 

[foxdie]

Yeah, I have never been super horny around another super horny person. But don't people carry condoms in their wallets at all times or this just is a regional thing? Aren't there contraceptive methods that can be used AFTER intercourse? I'd talk about abortion, but while it is a right in some countries, it is a crime in others, so not much of a valid point. I am mostly talking about the choice of having a baby, not about the choice having sex. My point is not that people should choose to not have sex, it's that they should choose to do as much as they can to avoid pregnancy (even though no method is 100% efficient). Unprotected sex is irresponsible and stupid no matter how much sex you want to have, and that's even more about STD's than babies. But there are people who choose to have babies, they have sex with the sole intention of conceiving. For example, my parents. A depressed man and a low key narcissistic woman; maybe that's why I am so against having children. Even so, I do have the deep desire to have children myself, I swear I want children so, so much. I just lost the faith in myself, in my parents as grandparents and in this world as a whole. Even if I myself manage to get out this hole I am in, I still don't think I'll ever agree to have a child with someone. I may adopt, since it's someone who's already in this world not by their choice, but even then I don't think I'd be able to properly raise a child. Putting a whole new person here, though? I don't think that's a rational choice. Again, I also don't think who do so is evil, and those who end up pregnant accidentally after sex aren't monsters. Those who don't have children aren't in any higher moral level either. I just think that's the better choice, for everyone.

We have a first order fundamental disagreement that having a baby is a choice vs a biological drive. Everything else you mention is second order or third order issues. Also effective contraceptives is only a recent development in human history and isn't available everywhere. There's no condom tree and all methods require access and money. We're all parents before modern contraceptives just plain evil in your eyes?

 

[Meditation guide]

Of course the underlying theme here is women are sluts who have unwanted pregnancies. Even though a man is involved, it's the female who gets the condemnation and scorn.

 

[Soulless Angel]

You brought them here, that's evil.

Ahhhh gotta love these threads .....