Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[outrider567]

What about 15 lpm? I spent a lot on this max dog regulator now I'm seeing stuff about 20-25 lpm

View attachment 137160

I'll just buy one, could this be right ? Only 22$??

Mad Dog Regulators are supposedly unreliable, as per Greenberg, I wasted $330 on one--Even tho it was supposed to be a Nitrogen Regulator, it said 'Oxygen Regulator' on it

What about 15 lpm? I spent a lot on this max dog regulator now I'm seeing stuff about 20-25 lpm

View attachment 137160

I'll just buy one, could this be right ? Only 22$??

15 LPM is still perfectly acceptable to CTB, as per Greenberg--My tests with 15 LPM were almost the same as 25 LPM--I'll only use 25 LPM because I have a big tank, 2200 Liters of Nitrogen

 

[kudaphillips]

Mad Dog Regulators are supposedly unreliable, as per Greenberg, I wasted $330 on one--Even tho it was supposed to be a Nitrogen Regulator, it said 'Oxygen Regulator' on it

15 LPM is still perfectly acceptable to CTB, as per Greenberg--My tests with 15 LPM were almost the same as 25 LPM--I'll only use 25 LPM because I have a big tank, 2200 Liters of Nitrogen

Actually ya, mine says oxygen on it and it doesn't even say max dog..but I ordered it from them

 

[rigbone]

US SCBA:
Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite
Drager FPS 7000(R56200)
CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter
~2000$

US hood setup:
Drager rescue hood~250$
Drager CEJN 344 coupler~140$
ACU-200 reg~100$
Middle adapter(CGA-032 to 1/4 NPT)~15$

Both will kill you,the choice is yours

Looking at the pics of PAS Lite models sold by US vendors, the connection appears to be male, which wouldn't pair with the CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter as it is also male. Below is a pic from a vendor's site of the tank connector on a PAS Lite (PN 3358743), and the "Western Enterprises#830, PKGD: Adaptor CGA-580-346" adaptor that I have. I don't have the PAS Lite yet as I am not sure that it will be compatible with the CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter.

 

[Authentic13]

What kind of method are you considering which doesn't purge the co2, just a bag?

The unconsciousness from inert hypoxia is a result of to little oxygen to support cognitive functions and basically shuts down to save resources. If there are any involuntary reflexes they would be quite basic and easily stopped with some tie downs on the hands.

But with a high co2 level the body respond much more drastically since it's highly aware of the immediate danger it's under. Even if you would last so long that your the brink of unconsciousness, it's quite possible the last cognitive thought would be to rip of the bag/hood whatever to survive. You can't trust the body to reason when the survival instincts kicks in and takes over rational thoughts.

That's the real benefit of inert gas, your body doesn't know only your mind.

Thanks a bunch for that response Kap. It sort of confirms what I've been thinking as a result of reading here.

 

[k1w1]

What about 15 lpm? I spent a lot on this max dog regulator now I'm seeing stuff about 20-25 lpm

View attachment 137160

I'll just buy one, could this be right ? Only 22$??

What about 15 lpm? I spent a lot on this max dog regulator now I'm seeing stuff about 20-25 lpm

View attachment 137160

I'll just buy one, could this be right ? Only 22$??

Nitschke is just a good businessman, he oversimplifies the whole process. Yes...that regulator from Amazon with built in ball gauge is absolutely available, it is at the cheaper end but it is for one use only so should be fine. Similar are available in welding shops for under a $100 AUS.
As for his touting two breaths and one is unconcious, this definitely is not the case. Everything one needs is available ex-China including the click-style nitrogen regs....BUT, if one uses a eebd hood, or for reasons I dont understand, a MIN of 25lpm would be my recommended flow....more with a bigger tank. I found myself starving for gas at 15lpm, no leaks, well put together system.

ok… new member longtime suicide venturer but I have ridiculous SI , huge fear of failure and being vegetable because I do not trust anything in life especially after how it's gone . To wimpy for firearms but might go this route because less chance of SI ruining the attempt , but it's freaking tough to do. Prob got mentally closest with shotgun method , Nembutal owner but can't figure out the exit test kits, never works, and my brain is fucked and doesn't metabolize drugs correctly and I get horrendous unspeakable reactions from this drug class ( gaba agonists ) . Anyway…the exit bag method

I've had a 20 cf nitrogen tank for a few years , made several exit bags , different elastics , headband , I pull it over my head most nights to try and get used to it , never started the gas though. After reading through the thread I decided to get a 40 cf , starting to feel a little better about it because gas running out was a large fear. My questions are

1. Size of the chord..I cannot find a toggle large enough for the half inch elastic recommend …anywhere ..tried hard… I have pretty small elastic( less than the recommended 5/8 inch), but this shouldn't really matter right ? As long as not too tight and not too lose , you should be able to slip a finger under it , it should be fine ? This doesn't seem to be a main source of failure but want to make sure

2. Gone crazy with the step of taping the tubing to the bag. Ppeh had a ridiculous complex explanation of this ( cut two slits in duct tape and feed a wire tie through it ) etc, also says the Betty video shows how to do this..took me forever to find the Betty video and it doesn't say anything about this . Shouldn't you just tape the tube inside the bag 5-8 cm from ththe bottom and that be totally fine ?this shouldn't matter much I feel?

3.the use of micropore tape. I feel it sticks pretty well…but duct tape and packing tape seem to stick way better ..is there a reason other than sticking power that these tapes aren't used?

4. Failures.. and why they happen. If the nitrogen is tested,40 cf tank, max dog regulator at 15 lpm, turkey exit bag made correctly , bag filled up till it's like a balloon on forehead, rapid hyper breathing for 2 minutes, huge exhale even longer than you usually exhale , then biggest breath you can possibly take , sitting upright in a chair , tank strapped down so it won't fall, this shouldn't fail right?
I think maybe people don't take a big enough breath and it takes longer to blackout and they get SI ?
For something such heavily advocated in th community , I see an awful lot of failure stories , some horror stories with the brain damage . I understand there's failure with any method and it's just about finding one you're comfortable with to do nature best chance

5. Is it a good practice to follow the procedure , and if you don't pass out in a breath or two than bail on the attempt ? This thinking I feel will help my SI restrictions possibly. Or is this not recommended ? I've seen people say you don't get brain damage unless you pass out , and the attempt is subsequently botched for other reasons

Passing out in 'a breath or two is a myth started by PPH. We are all different. I started to fade in 30 sec. Like yourself I tend towards bigger is better with the tank. But the fact remains noone can survive without oxygen for more than 15 mins.

 

[kudaphillips]

Nitschke is just a good businessman, he oversimplifies the whole process. Yes...that regulator from Amazon with built in ball gauge is absolutely available, it is at the cheaper end but it is for one use only so should be fine. Similar are available in welding shops for under a $100 AUS.
As for his touting two breaths and one is unconcious, this definitely is not the case. Everything one needs is available ex-China including the click-style nitrogen regs....BUT, if one uses a eebd hood, or for reasons I dont understand, a MIN of 25lpm would be my recommended flow....more with a bigger tank. I found myself starving for gas at 15lpm, no leaks, well put together system.

Passing out in 'a breath or two is a myth started by PPH. We are all different. I started to fade in 30 sec. Like yourself I tend towards bigger is better with the tank. But the fact remains noone can survive without oxygen for more than 15 mins.

Thanks so much for the reply.
So what I gather is that those cheap argon regulators with flowmeter of 25lpm in your opinion will suffice for eebd / exit bag, since they basically only getting single or just a few uses.


Hearing a lot of not great stuff about nitchke lately…so while he may be over simplifying how quickly you pass out and die , do you see any issues with his general exit bag procedure, other than maybe a higher recommended LPM flow?

 

[limeoctave]

I recently haggled and was able to buy a new Drager Saver SF on the secondary market for about 20 euros. I had a hard time putting it on and had a hard time taking it off. It fits very snugly on my head, I wasn't expecting that. There is no connector on the end of the hose, I think only the Drager PSS hood has one. I don't have a caliper, I measured with a regular ruler and I got that the inside diameter of the hose is about 7 millimeters, it's probably 1/4 inch. I have attached a couple of pictures for those who might be interested in looking at it
View attachment 125959View attachment 125960
View attachment 125969

i got the same hood. just to addition to previous post, the inner hose diameter is 7.3 mm, outer diameter is 13.3 mm, and the length of the hose is 75 cm

 

[kudaphillips]

Is there any concern of pets being killed by large amounts of nitrogen being released into the house? I had zero concern about this with 20cf and 40cf, but I'm considering using 80 cf depending on method , and don't want cats to die

 

[EternalSkies]

Is there any video or image showing how tightly to close the exit bag?

 

[kudaphillips]

Is there any video or image showing how tightly to close the exit bag?

Man we picked the wrong time to be active in this thread . Vizzy, gasmonkey prob woulda had a great answer for this. I think practicing and making sure there's positive pressure, enough to inflate the bag fully , but purge enough at the bottom to where the bag isn't popping, and to error on th side of to loose rather than to tight .

 

[kudaphillips]

I got eebd hood in like less than a week from china, pretty amazing . Here's the setup. Tbh..I don't like it , the purge valve works if it snug it up against my face in 5 perfect spot, but if I move a little bit, my exhales purge through the sides of the orinasal mask.

 

[outrider567]

I got eebd hood in like less than a week from china, pretty amazing . Here's the setup. Tbh..I don't like it , the purge valve works if it snug it up against my face in 5 perfect spot, but if I move a little bit, my exhales purge through the sides of the orinasal mask.
View attachment 137977

looks similar to mine

 

[limeoctave]

I got eebd hood in like less than a week from china, pretty amazing . Here's the setup. Tbh..I don't like it , the purge valve works if it snug it up against my face in 5 perfect spot, but if I move a little bit, my exhales purge through the sides of the orinasal mask.
View attachment 137977

can you show your connection between hoses? if you don't mind

btw i have eebd hood as well and in mine also not all exhaled air goes through exhalation valve, but maybe if there will be nitrogen flow to hood, then the purge will be better, but idk

how did you test it? without air flow?

 

[kudaphillips]

can you show your connection between hoses? if you don't mind

btw i have eebd hood as well and in mine also not all exhaled air goes through exhalation valve, but maybe if there will be nitrogen flow to hood, then the purge will be better, but idk

how did you test it? without air flow?

Yes without air flow, yes maybe it functions better with pressure . I think gas monkey might have said something about this but everything is a blur so much information .
So the connection between the hoses, I'll,probably just use hose clamps , but I don't think it's gonna leak even without them it was pretty hard to get the hoses on the ferrule , I kinda stopped putting it together because I think I'm gonna feel more comfortable with exit bag tbh, overkill with the cylinder, at a higher lpm flow .

 

[limeoctave]

Yes without air flow, yes maybe it functions better with pressure . I think gas monkey might have said something about this but everything is a blur so much information .
So the connection between the hoses, I'll,probably just use hose clamps , but I don't think it's gonna leak even without them it was pretty hard to get the hoses on the ferrule , I kinda stopped putting it together because I think I'm gonna feel more comfortable with exit bag tbh, overkill with the cylinder, at a higher lpm flow .View attachment 137984

thank you

 

[final weekz]

Hello everybody. I just got 1400L of N2 (it was the smallest amount i could get lol) but aint no way im finding a flowmeter before my birthday (3 weeks) so i want to ask the experts here if you think i could just use a pressure controller and just use an airflow that seems right? (not so little that the bag loses volume and not so much that it poops). Or maybe a bit more of the usual as i have 1400L

 

[kudaphillips]

Hello everybody. I just got 1400L of N2 (it was the smallest amount i could get lol) but aint no way im finding a flowmeter before my birthday (3 weeks) so i want to ask the experts here if you think i could just use a pressure controller and just use an airflow that seems right? (not so little that the bag loses volume and not so much that it poops). Or maybe a bit more of the usual as i have 1400L

Why can't you get a flowmeter sooner than 3 weeks? Im not a pro but no one is gonna recommend doing this without a flowmeter .

 

[final weekz]

Why can't you get a flowmeter sooner than 3 weeks? Im not a pro but no one is gonna recommend doing this without a flowmeter .

Because i didnt find any with more than 10L/min of measure capacity that would get send before those 3 weeks and i dont know of any store that can sell that kind of stuff while the presure valves should be easy to find

 

[kudaphillips]

Because i didnt find any with more than 10L/min of measure capacity that would get send before those 3 weeks and i dont know of any store that can sell that kind of stuff while the presure valves should be easy to find

I just ordered something from Ali baba, (Shanghai china). It arrived to unite states in less than a week.

 

[final weekz]

I just ordered something from Ali baba, (Shanghai china). It arrived to unite states in less than a week.

Alibaba takes a month to arrive to europe, amazon had the 3 weeks delay

 

[limeoctave]

looks similar to mine

when you tested your hood with nitrogen flow, did you feel like all the exhaled air went through the exhalation valve? did you have any bad feelings like from co2?

 

[outrider567]

when you tested your hood with nitrogen flow, did you feel like all the exhaled air went through the exhalation valve? did you have any bad feelings like from co2?

No bad feelings

 

[simplymiserable]

Can I get some feedback on my setup? Is is possible I've missed out anything important? Just really anxious that something will go wrong and I'll turn into a vegetable

The cylinder is a 3.5l I think the cylinder content was 200 bar? Forgot the measurements.

The biggest struggle was getting the adapter but there seems to be nothing like wrong with it. I did not use a wrench to fasten it but obviously I'll take more precaution on the actual day.

how do you check if the demand valve is on? Are there any signs beyond pressing the in button?

From what I gather if you use an EEBD hood it constantly exhausts n2 from the tank regardless. Should I swap to this method to ensure the tank empties after using? Scba mask will leave some remnants in the tank right? If it does will it become an issue?

 

[JyeGuru]

Hi all - such a great thread! I read it over the course of a few days, so many ups and downs, but a lot of useful information.

I'd just like to make sure I'm on the right page here, and that I'm not missing anything really obvious. I have:
- Exit bags (plural, to allow testing) made from oven bags
- D-size AU Nitrogen canister (99.6% "Food Grade") - they didn't have a smaller one, but that's fine. Plenty to test with.
- Combined Nitrogen regulator/flowmeter thingy (see photo below)
- Barb adapter for tubing (in transit)
- A bunch of oxygen tubing (in transit)

I'm going to be testing the feel of N2 tonight, using just the chunky hose that came with the regulator and a test bag, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing something stupidly obvious. Once all the bits get here, I'll look at posting a more complete setup.

Thanks!

 

[limeoctave]

Hi all - such a great thread! I read it over the course of a few days, so many ups and downs, but a lot of useful information.

I'd just like to make sure I'm on the right page here, and that I'm not missing anything really obvious. I have:
- Exit bags (plural, to allow testing) made from oven bags
- D-size AU Nitrogen canister (99.6% "Food Grade") - they didn't have a smaller one, but that's fine. Plenty to test with.
- Combined Nitrogen regulator/flowmeter thingy (see photo below)
- Barb adapter for tubing (in transit)
- A bunch of oxygen tubing (in transit)

I'm going to be testing the feel of N2 tonight, using just the chunky hose that came with the regulator and a test bag, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing something stupidly obvious. Once all the bits get here, I'll look at posting a more complete setup.

Thanks!

hi, idk what your complete setup will include, so here are some items that may be helpful, sorry if you already have them in mind

- hose clamps
- other components for exit bag (elastic, cord stopper for elastic, sticky tape/micropore tape)
- soap spray/special gas detector spray (for gas leaking check)
- finger oximeter (if you want to check the drop of oxygen in blood)
- armchair
- straps for cylinder and body

not everything on this list is required, but it may be helpful

 

[JyeGuru]

hi, idk what your complete setup will include, so here are some items that may be helpful, sorry if you already have them in mind

- hose clamps
- other components for exit bag (elastic, cord stopper for elastic, sticky tape/micropore tape)
- soap spray/special gas detector spray (for gas leaking check)
- finger oximeter (if you want to check the drop of oxygen in blood)
- armchair
- straps for cylinder and body

not everything on this list is required, but it may be helpful

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful list!

With the bags, I have them assembled and ready to go - one without elastic to allow easy and less risky testing.

I've been testing with a finger oximeter and the test bag (not tight, held loosely so I can drop it) tonight to the point of blacking out. Definitely feels like it's going to work easily which is great!

The canister and flowmeter is set up well, I have hose clamps and accessories available for when the tubing arrives - have worked with commercial gas before.

Regarding the chair/straps I'm still working out the exact logistics, but have a number of options available that include restraints where required. Nothing as elaborate as some of the ones I've seen on here though.

Cheers

 

[limeoctave]

I've been testing with a finger oximeter and the test bag (not tight, held loosely so I can drop it) tonight to the point of blacking out.

did you lose consciousness during the test? (i apologize, my English is not very good, so i might misinterpret smth)

if so, did you have any bad, uncomfortable feelings? do you know how long it took? and what was your oxygen level at that moment?

ofc if you don't mind answering these questions

 

[kudaphillips]

Within this thread, I've seen alot of posters talking about " the blackout test". Is there a thread on this? Is there a particular procedure ? What exactly is this .

 

[JyeGuru]

did you lose consciousness during the test? (i apologize, my English is not very good, so i might misinterpret smth)

if so, did you have any bad, uncomfortable feelings? do you know how long it took? and what was your oxygen level at that moment?

ofc if you don't mind answering these questions

I did once. It felt like fainting, getting a little dizzy between breaths, then going black. No discomfort or SI during this process (detailed below). I didn't have a timer going, so I'm not sure exactly how long it was, but I had a TV show going in the background and it was very similar to when you're watching TV while really tired, and just miss a little bit of the show when you blink but not enough to completely lose track of what's going on - so I imagine it was only a few seconds.

Afterwards, I had a little discomfort in my chest, tighness, but no worse than I've had after a workout or hyperventilating. This went away after about an hour, and today (after sleeping) I feel completely fine. The lowest reading I remember seeing on the oximeter was 46, but it's a cheapy Amazonian one and lags quite a bit, and I'm not sure how accurate it is. The oximeter was literally just there to ensure the N2 was working as expected the first couple of times, and I probably won't wear it going forward.

I will probably do it again today, and will try and record it on my phone so I have a better idea of how long, and if there's any weirdness.

Within this thread, I've seen alot of posters talking about " the blackout test". Is there a thread on this? Is there a particular procedure ? What exactly is this .

The test I did, based on how I understand all of this to work, was:
- Set up the N2 as detailed in this thread, 20lpm, tubing, etc
- Hold an empty oven bag around the end of the tube and turn on the cylinder
- Wait until the bag is almost full
- Deep exhale (no hyperventilating)
- Hold bag opening over my face (N2 tube is still in the bag, held against my cheek), inhale deeply
- Continue to breathe into the bag, letting it a little loose on exhale to ensure gas is purging
- Start feeling dizzy/wobbly, can't hold the bag properly
- Once the bag falls, normal breathing recovers

So, the first time I just did this until I felt dizzy, watched the oximeter show me that it's clearly working, no feeling of choking, no SI. So I stopped. About an hour later I tried it again, this time held the bag until I lost consciousness. Wasted a bit of N2 since the tubing was loose after I dropped the bag, but not a considerable amount. I don't feel it would be possible to turn off the cylinder at the right time to continue to test (or ctb) without the N2 flowing as it happens too quickly.

I'm sure there's other ways to do it, but that's what I've pieced together for myself.

Based on these experiences, I am convinced this is how I will go.

 

[kudaphillips]

I did once. It felt like fainting, getting a little dizzy between breaths, then going black. No discomfort or SI during this process (detailed below). I didn't have a timer going, so I'm not sure exactly how long it was, but I had a TV show going in the background and it was very similar to when you're watching TV while really tired, and just miss a little bit of the show when you blink but not enough to completely lose track of what's going on - so I imagine it was only a few seconds.

Afterwards, I had a little discomfort in my chest, tighness, but no worse than I've had after a workout or hyperventilating. This went away after about an hour, and today (after sleeping) I feel completely fine. The lowest reading I remember seeing on the oximeter was 46, but it's a cheapy Amazonian one and lags quite a bit, and I'm not sure how accurate it is. The oximeter was literally just there to ensure the N2 was working as expected the first couple of times, and I probably won't wear it going forward.

I will probably do it again today, and will try and record it on my phone so I have a better idea of how long, and if there's any weirdness.


The test I did, based on how I understand all of this to work, was:
- Set up the N2 as detailed in this thread, 20lpm, tubing, etc
- Hold an empty oven bag around the end of the tube and turn on the cylinder
- Wait until the bag is almost full
- Deep exhale (no hyperventilating)
- Hold bag opening over my face (N2 tube is still in the bag, held against my cheek), inhale deeply
- Continue to breathe into the bag, letting it a little loose on exhale to ensure gas is purging
- Start feeling dizzy/wobbly, can't hold the bag properly
- Once the bag falls, normal breathing recovers

So, the first time I just did this until I felt dizzy, watched the oximeter show me that it's clearly working, no feeling of choking, no SI. So I stopped. About an hour later I tried it again, this time held the bag until I lost consciousness. Wasted a bit of N2 since the tubing was loose after I dropped the bag, but not a considerable amount. I don't feel it would be possible to turn off the cylinder at the right time to continue to test (or ctb) without the N2 flowing as it happens too quickly.

I'm sure there's other ways to do it, but that's what I've pieced together for myself.

Based on these experiences, I am convinced this is how I will go.

What did it feel like to lose c9mciousness did you dream or anything ? How long did it take ? How'd you feel upon awaken8ng ?
I tried just breathing the tube in my mouth , I got drenched in sweat, prob from SI , stopped before oxygen got below 75