Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[kudaphillips]

Yup, theyre crap really. The inner mask would indeed work if it was made of soft, malleable silicon instead of that hard rubber. For my test I covered the side valves with tape and upped nitrogen to 25 lires. I have not the inyerest to buy a draeger but new masks are coming on the market with silicone inners. Given the low price of these , maybe rationalise itv as a step along the way. Has anyone put the mask on, and gassed up until symptoms began?

Ya I dunno. It prob would work but exit bag still is the winner for me . I have. Scuba setup that should be complete today, but I doubt I'll even use it because I get drenched with sweat during the process ( not sure if it's an anxiety si sweat or involuntary nervous system reaction to low oxygen ) and whenever I've worn masks sweat makes the mask slide off /really effects the air tight seal .

 

[limeoctave]

I believe with more sugar/carbs cellular respiratuon increases. During this process the cells produce CO2. This is then carried by the blood stream and out the lungs. Hence more sugar > more cellular respiration > more CO2.

(Just speaking as a possible answer. Please do not take my word as fact.)

in addition to this topic, that increasing sugar/carbs intake would lead to increasing exhaled CO2, i found only one study in 'normal subjects' (others were with patients with lung disease) and it says:

At rest, mean VCO2 and R were significantly lower after the low CHO diet compared to the high CHO diet.

so it proves part of the quoted message, but it is still not very clear how significant the effect of the special diet is in the case of the EEBD and Exit Bag methods, and if it has any effect at all

at least the test from PPH (if it can be trusted) does not indicate that the subject was on a special diet, and the CO2 level did not rise appreciably in the test results (at 15 l/min flow)

 

[Schmopo]

Hi all (From AU), I'm at a total loss figuring out what to buy and how to set up. I tried going with the standard exit bag method but I feel this won't give proper assurance of death. I've got a N tank with Type 50 outlet connected to it with a 5/8 UNF barb underneath. Is it easy in my country to buy a scuba mask or EEBD that has the 5/8 UNF to connect to the regulator? I'm getting research fatigue trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do and not understanding it, even the guides and tutorials are hard to follow grasping if I can replace fittings or buying the right equipment :/

 

[Kapsyl]

Hi all (From AU), I'm at a total loss figuring out what to buy and how to set up. I tried going with the standard exit bag method but I feel this won't give proper assurance of death. I've got a N tank with Type 50 outlet connected to it with a 5/8 UNF barb underneath. Is it easy in my country to buy a scuba mask or EEBD that has the 5/8 UNF to connect to the regulator? I'm getting research fatigue trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do and not understanding it, even the guides and tutorials are hard to follow grasping if I can replace fittings or buying the right equipment :/

Am I getting it right that you already have a regulator connected to the nitrogen tank? Does it have a flow meter?

The guides especially the exit bag/eebd are very universal since materials and couplings can vary wildly between countries. You have to adapt the methods to your specific setup, the more you learn about the mechanics of the method the easier it gets to modify your existing setup.

FYI the scuba setup doesn't utilize a "normal" regulator and instead use a special scuba regulator coupled with a full face scuba mask. It's a complete different system from exit bags and eebd hoods.

I would first of decide upon which method your aiming at before I can help you.

 

[Schmopo]

Am I getting it right that you already have a regulator connected to the nitrogen tank? Does it have a flow meter?

The guides especially the exit bag/eebd are very universal since materials and couplings can vary wildly between countries. You have to adapt the methods to your specific setup, the more you learn about the mechanics of the method the easier it gets to modify your existing setup.

FYI the scuba setup doesn't utilize a "normal" regulator and instead use a special scuba regulator coupled with a full face scuba mask. It's a complete different system from exit bags and eebd hoods.

I would first of decide upon which method your aiming at before I can help you.

I have a regulator connected and I believe it has a flow meter measuring up to 25L/m with a little ball inside. At this point I'll take the EEBD method if it makes this process a lot easier despite the potential financial costs. Some I can see include a sling bag or an aluminum helmet or respirators.

 

[Kapsyl]

I have a regulator connected and I believe it has a flow meter measuring up to 25L/m with a little ball inside. At this point I'll take the EEBD method if it makes this process a lot easier despite the potential financial costs. Some I can see include a sling bag or an aluminum helmet or respirators.

It certainly sounds that you have a flowmeter since it has a ball and indications of liters per minute.

If you have decided on eebd hood you have most of the equipment required. You just have to figure out how to mount the eebd hose onto the flowmeter since 5/8 would probably be too big. I would suggest using a 5/8 to 1/4 barb adapter with a 5/8 hose between the flowmeter and adapter.

Some I can see include a sling bag or an aluminum helmet or respirators.

I have never seen these methods, Aluminum helmet and sling bag? Where did you find these methods?

 

[Schmopo]

It certainly sounds that you have a flowmeter since it has a ball and indications of liters per minute.

If you have decided on eebd hood you have most of the equipment required. You just have to figure out how to mount the eebd hose onto the flowmeter since 5/8 would probably be too big. I would suggest using a 5/8 to 1/4 barb adapter with a 5/8 hose between the flowmeter and adapter.

The hose I have is 5mm with an 11mm outside diameter with 5/8 fittings threaded that came with N.

I have never seen these methods, Aluminum helmet and sling bag? Where did you find these methods?

Sorry I meant these are what are available to me to buy, not that they are methods. If I sourced a hood from another country it might have different fitting standards. Most hoods have their own tubing. Would I need to remove fittings on those tubes, or buy a fitting like above image to convert the hood fitting to 5/8? Or can I install the tubing that came with my equipment onto the hood instead?

 

[Kapsyl]

The hose I have is 5mm with an 11mm outside diameter with 5/8 fittings threaded that came with N.


Sorry I meant these are what are available to me to buy, not that they are methods. If I sourced a hood from another country it might have different fitting standards. Most hoods have their own tubing. Would I need to remove fittings on those tubes, or buy a fitting like above image to convert the hood fitting to 5/8? Or can I install the tubing that came with my equipment onto the hood instead?

Eebd hoods often have a proprietary connection on the end designed to fit their air supply. Most just cut this off and fit it to an 1/4 barb or something similar, no need to find a an exact fitting. The air pressure is relatively low so hose clamps will suffice to secure it to the barb. Have you read the eebd guides yet?

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Sorry I meant these are what are available to me to buy, not that they are methods.

Oh I see, the sling bags are their air supply, these will not be needed since we exchange it to a different "air supply". Aluminum helmet is also not necessary for this method but is instead voluntary.

 

[Schmopo]

Eebd hoods often have a proprietary connection on the end designed to fit their air supply. Most just cut this off and fit it to an 1/4 barb or something similar, no need to find a an exact fitting. The air pressure is relatively low so hose clamps will suffice to secure it to the barb. Have you read the eebd guides yet?

I have read them over a few times but was still very confused but I think I just over complicated myself as usual. It seems all I really have to do at this point is source a hood; cut the propriety connections off the hood hose, fit the hose clamp on the hose, plug the hose into the 5/8 regulator outlet and screw the clamp in to secure it. It should all work from that point if I understood this correctly?

 

[Kapsyl]

I have read them over a few times but was still very confused but I think I just over complicated myself as usual. It seems all I really have to do at this point is source a hood; cut the propriety connections off the hood hose, fit the hose clamp on the hose, plug the hose into the 5/8 regulator outlet and screw the clamp in to secure it. It should all work from that point if I understood this correctly?

Yes more or less, but I doubt you will be able to fit the eebd hose on the 5/8 outlet. It's just to big so you have to make an adapter to make it work. But the principle is essentially the same.

Be sure to test the setup, listening for leaks or spraying it with soapy water to detect bubbles. It also helps becoming used to the hood since they can sometimes appear claustrophobic. Make sure the co2 valve is working correctly, this is the key feature which makes it superior to exit bags.

 

[limeoctave]

I have read them over a few times but was still very confused but I think I just over complicated myself as usual. It seems all I really have to do at this point is source a hood; cut the propriety connections off the hood hose, fit the hose clamp on the hose, plug the hose into the 5/8 regulator outlet and screw the clamp in to secure it. It should all work from that point if I understood this correctly?

i would also recommend making sure you get the appropriate EEBD hood before you buy it, as there have been messages of inappropriate options, and maybe add a hose for extension, ofc if you need it

 

[kudaphillips]

I have read them over a few times but was still very confused but I think I just over complicated myself as usual. It seems all I really have to do at this point is source a hood; cut the propriety connections off the hood hose, fit the hose clamp on the hose, plug the hose into the 5/8 regulator outlet and screw the clamp in to secure it. It should all work from that point if I understood this correctly?

I was curious what has scared you away from the exit bag?

Plenty of people have ctb with eebd hood. Myself and other members have noticed that the purge valve on some hoods including the brand thst vizzy used, don't adhere to your face very well , don't always work . That being said,at 25 lpm ctb still prob very likely even without it functioning correctly .
Me personally all the confusion about connections and uncertainty, Chinese equipment that doesn't always function correctly I vote exit bag ( just a personal opinion many would disagree..and I'm certainly open to changing this opinion …I have completed eebd scuba and exit bag rigs all ready )
….a large nitrogen tank with regulator flow over 15 lpm, and oxygen tubing , simple turkey bag ( great videos on this very easy to make )and your done …..assuming following all the correct procedure which is important .

I think with all the adapters and multiple connections with other methods can introduce error . Even with a scuba/ scba set up properly …some people ( myself included )sweat profusely during ctb attempts, which can effect the seal of the mask .

 

[Schmopo]

Yes more or less, but I doubt you will be able to fit the eebd hose on the 5/8 outlet. It's just to big so you have to make an adapter to make it work. But the principle is essentially the same.

Be sure to test the setup, listening for leaks or spraying it with soapy water to detect bubbles. It also helps becoming used to the hood since they can sometimes appear claustrophobic. Make sure the co2 valve is working correctly, this is the key feature which makes it superior to exit bags.

I do have the hose with 5/8 fitting that came with the tank that can go to the regulator with ease. I would think it's a matter of connecting that hose and eed hose into a double-sided hose barb then securing both ends with a hose clamp, I hope.

Will definitely test once I have everything set-up and maybe get an oximeter if I have to. Hopefully I got this right. I'll update once I have everything all sorted. Thank you so much for dumbing this down for dumb!

I was curious what has scared you away from the exit bag?

I'm mistake prone with a dash of perfectionism and fear of failure. I had made an exit bag from a plastic shopping bag that fits on my head but I don't feel assured that it will succeed in ctb and leave me worse off. Especially stuff like this I'm excellent at failing to make it work, even if it's so simple.

The hood I found is a draeger cf model, if that means anything.

 

[kudaphillips]

I do have the hose with 5/8 fitting that came with the tank that can go to the regulator with ease. I would think it's a matter of connecting that hose and eed hose into a double-sided hose barb then securing both ends with a hose clamp, I hope.

Will definitely test once I have everything set-up and maybe get an oximeter if I have to. Hopefully I got this right. I'll update once I have everything all sorted. Thank you so much for dumbing this down for dumb!

It's dumb but I'm mistake prone with a dash of perfectionism and fear of failure. I had made an exit bag from a plastic shopping bag that fits on my head but I don't feel assured that it will succeed in ctb and leave me far worse off, especially given stuff like this I'm excellent at failing to make it work, even if it's so simple.

The hood I found is a draeger model, if that means anything.

Well yes your shopping bag likely wouldn't work correctly . You need a turkey oven bag . Extremely durable

 

[moloko plus]

So I've tried it just now, and as you can guess, it didn't work. I spent about 10 minutes (maybe 12-13) with the bag on, nitro flowing at 15 lpm (according to my regulator that is). All I felt was some tingling — hands at first, rest of the body later — and some dizziness/weakness. It also got kinda hot. No fear, no panic, no suffocation, no survival instinct, no flinching, nothing unpleasant at all. But I never felt close to losing consciousness, either.

So now I wonder what did I do wrong? Maybe the bag is too large? What size do you guys use?

 

[kudaphillips]

So I've tried it just now, and as you can guess, it didn't work. I spent about 10 minutes (maybe 12-13) with the bag on, nitro flowing at 15 lpm (according to my regulator that is). All I felt was some tingling — hands at first, rest of the body later — and some dizziness/weakness. It also got kinda hot. No fear, no panic, no suffocation, no survival instinct, no flinching, nothing unpleasant at all. But I never felt close to losing consciousness, either.

So now I wonder what did I do wrong? Maybe the bag is too large? What size do you guys use?

Did you test your nitrogen percentage ?
The bag looks fine.

If your nitrogen is tested , Run through the exact procedure

 

[moloko plus]

I don't have any doubts regarding the nitro. I bought it from the biggest gas factory of my country, they produce not only technical gases, but also medical ones. It has to be legit.

 

[limeoctave]

So I've tried it just now, and as you can guess, it didn't work. I spent about 10 minutes (maybe 12-13) with the bag on, nitro flowing at 15 lpm (according to my regulator that is). All I felt was some tingling — hands at first, rest of the body later — and some dizziness/weakness. It also got kinda hot. No fear, no panic, no suffocation, no survival instinct, no flinching, nothing unpleasant at all. But I never felt close to losing consciousness, either.

So now I wonder what did I do wrong? Maybe the bag is too large? What size do you guys use?

did you check your blood oxygen percentage with finger oximeter?

 

[kudaphillips]

I don't have any doubts regarding the nitro. I bought it from the biggest gas factory of my country, they produce not only technical gases, but also medical ones. It has to be legit.

Did you scrunch out all the air before you started the gas ? Tell me exactly what you did as far as procedure

 

[moloko plus]

did you check your blood oxygen percentage with finger oximeter?

No, and right now I'm exactly purchasing an oximeter for the next attempt.

Did you scrunch out all the air before you started the gas ? Tell me exactly what you did as far as procedure

As much as I could, yes. I don't think it was 100% empty, but it felt empty enough. Knowing how important this one step is, I put some effort into it, and didn't turn the gas on until I was sure I did the best scrunching I could do.

 

[Kapsyl]

I don't have any doubts regarding the nitro. I bought it from the biggest gas factory of my country, they produce not only technical gases, but also medical ones. It has to be legit.

It has to be the elastic, it looks way to loose. Does it fit snug around your neck? Air is definitely leaking in somewhere and the fact that you could sit 10 min without that much trouble definitely indicates that. Adjust/get better elastic and crank that lpm up and it should work. With only 15 lpm you should run out of nitrogen" pretty quick inside the bag.

 

[limeoctave]

No, and right now I'm exactly purchasing an oximeter for the next attempt.

As much as I could, yes. I don't think it was 100% empty, but it felt empty enough.

how did you check that your flow is correct? seems that your regulator doesn't have flowmeter, did you convert the psi to lpm?

there are test flowmeters, like in the attachment, maybe it could be helpful

 

[moloko plus]

It has to be the elastic, it looks way to loose. Does it fit snug around your neck? Air is definitely leaking in somewhere and the fact that you could sit 10 min without that much trouble definitely indicates that. Adjust/get better elastic and crank that lpm up and it should work. With only 15 lpm you should run out of nitrogen" pretty quick inside the bag.

It's loose on the pic 'cuz I loosened it when putting the bag off after I realized it's not working. During the attempt it was pretty tight, here I recreated it:

how did you check that your flow is correct? seems that your regulator doesn't have flowmeter, did you convert the psi to lpm?

there are test flowmeters, like in the attachment, maybe it could be helpful

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

 

[limeoctave]

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

it's not the actual flowmeter, it's not so accurate, and is it calibrated for nitrogen?

 

[moloko plus]

it's not the actual flowmeter, it's not so accurate, and is it calibrated for nitrogen?

It is a nitrogen regulator. Now, I'm not an expert in this field, so I don't know if the brand is any good, but the thing is definitely advertised as a nitro regulator. How's it not actual?

 

[limeoctave]

How's it not actual?

i mean, it does not measure the actual gas flow rate, it just correlates the pressure with the flow rate, but it may be accurate enough, of course, but i'm not sure

 

[kudaphillips]

It's loose on the pic 'cuz I loosened it when putting the bag off after I realized it's not working. During the attempt it was pretty tight, here I recreated it:

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

It looks like rope? Or is it stretchy elastic ? If you're gas is for sure good, the. It's procedure where you went wrong , which is why I'm asking for you to please go step by step exactly what you did .

 

[moloko plus]

it does not measure the actual gas flow rate, it just correlate the pressure with the flow rate, but it may be accurate enough, of course, but I'm not sure

I guess, I'll crank it up to 20 lpm next time, with smaller bag and oximeter as well.

Good thing about this whole ordeal is that now I know I can actually do it and won't chicken out. It took me some time to get my courage up for the first attempt, but in the process I surprisingly didn't have any doubts.

It looks like rope? Or is it stretchy elastic ? If you're gas is for sure good, the. It's procedure where you went wrong , which is why I'm asking for you to please go step by step exactly what you did .

Well, it was sold as 'cord', I believe, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as 'elastic'. English isn't my first language, so I had to google an 'elastic cord' and then bought something that looked similar. I figured, the material doesn't really matter as long as the thing can stay tight enough, which I felt it did.

Anyway, here it is:

 

[moloko plus]

Alright, so I bought some new stuff for the new bag. And oximeter. And some booze for extra fun. Gonna build the bag now and try it again.

 

[moloko plus]

Failed again. Made two attempts this time around, one after another. The first one ended in air hunger and panic — likely because I set the cord too tight around my neck. The second one was basically the same as yesterday. Except this time I had an oximeter — and it only went from 96% to 77%.

Two more sessions like that, and I won't even have enough nitro left, lmao.

Something is very wrong with some of my stuff, and I tend to suspect the flowmeter. The bag was inflating super slow during every attempt. At the same time, the hissing of gas was pretty loud... So I'm totally confused, and starting to think maybe I should go for sodium nitrite.