Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[NoFutureAnymore]

- Soap-water spray is probably the best way to check for leaks but also listen for any hissing sounds and look for a drop in the pressure gauge of the regulator at 0lpm flowrate

Leak detection sprays are just for sale in the local construction stores. I just bought one.

 

[odazai]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Thank you so much
This was so detailed

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

Thank you for this

 

[moonseeker]

For N2 I can't seem to find a source that is not very expensive or reliable. GD source costs 300e+ for a 5L 200bar 4.0. Anyone knows what's @GasMonkey 's source from Poland ?
For the Air to N2 adapter, I decided to use a combination of
Extended 200B air to intended 300B air

+
intended 200B w24 to intended 200B air

This is because the intended 200B w24 to intended 300B air is out of stock

 

[ztem]

No news from GasMonkey since Sunday...i have a bad feeling about it and i hope i'm wrong

Yeah Looks like he used his SCBA unfortunately but we need at least 7-14 days to confirm this.
I bow down before his kindness,he treated strangers like his best friend and all the information he provided.

what's @GasMonkey 's source from Poland ?

Amazon

I can't seem to find a source that is not very expensive or reliable. GD source costs 300e+

The cost of GasMonkey's setup is more than 1000$, If you have a limited budget, go for EEBD hood or plastic bag, both of them will do the job at a lower cost.

For the Air to N2 adapter, I decided to use a combination of
Extended 200B air to intended 300B air

The adapters you want to use are correct(send me the links to double check it in pm if you want)but as far as I remember GasMonkey told another member to use SCUBA as the adapter for SCBA is not available.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-while-living-with-family.128750/post-2114019

I can't recommend what you want to do now because you are the first to do it.You can do this and if it works well for you, you can recommend it to others.
The 200bar G5/8 to 200bar W24.32 adapter is still available for Nitrogen SCUBA.you can go with that.

SCUBA inert gas megathread

SCUBA inert gas megathread This thread was made only for the SCUBA method. For other inert gas methods please use the other threads. ************ Since my post regarding the SCUBA method in another thread, there have been many questions regarding this method in several threads and by PM...

sanctioned-suicide.net

This is because the intended 200B w24 to intended 300B air is out of stock

Also GasMonkey said if he was in this situation,his next recommended setup is EEBD hood.
EEBD hood is really good,@Vizzy proved the reliability of his setup by his own death.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/suitable-helium-tank-for-inert-gas-method.129469/post-2123554

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Yeah Looks like he used his SCBA unfortunately but we need at least 7-14 days to confirm this.
I bow down before his kindness,he treated strangers like his best friend and all the information he provided.

Yes he is/was really helpful.

{REMOVED}

It doesn't explain why the 200bar adapter is still available.

For N2 I can't seem to find a source that is not very expensive or reliable.

You might want to have a look in a local (welding) store to save delivery costs and you can also consider 2.8 purity.

 

[ztem]

It doesn't explain why the 200bar adapter is still available.

will run out of stock eventually too if there is too much demand for it.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

will run out of stock eventually too if there is too much demand for it.

That's really sad, which means the end of both SCBA/SCUBA.

 

[ztem]

That's really sad, which means the end of both SCBA/SCUBA.

unfortunately

@moonseeker If you have the SCBA kit,pm me,maybe I can give you advice about buying a cylinder,I'm afraid to say it here nowBut if you dont have SCBA,go with EEBD,SCUBA,EB

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

But if you dont have SCBA,go with EEBD,SCUBA,EB

It's cheaper too.

 

[Das Nichts]

Chill out about the adapter Situation, probably it's just out of stock for real. I found the same adapter on ebay
so it's still being sold if somebody needs it right now.

 

[moonseeker]

Chill out about the adapter Situation, probably it's just out of stock for real. I found the same adapter on ebay
so it's still being sold if somebody needs it right now.

Hope you're right. Once you have lost hope in life you tend to be pessimistic about all kind of stuff..

 

[Das Nichts]

Hope you're right. Once you have lost hope in life you tend to be pessimistic about all kind of stuff..

I know the frustration very well but it seems the seller is also the manufacturer of those adapters so they probably just need to produce some more.

 

[x0nSS]

Argon is perfectly viable. Few people in this forum have CTB'd with argon, though try to get nitrogen or helium if you can coz argon is a heavier gas which may not work the best wih an exit bag setup

Argon is recommended in the ppeh book and doesnt say anything about exit bag setup being less useable. Do you have any more info? maybe can show what you say?

 

[Dolphin55]

Argon is recommended in the ppeh book and doesnt say anything about exit bag setup being less useable. Do you have any more info? maybe can show what you say?

I believe some users experienced failures with argon+ExitBag. The bag did not inflate properly - probably because the gas is heavy. I know there have been successes too though, so it is possible to use it, but definitely best to go with nitrogen

 

[befree]

Argon is recommended in the ppeh book and doesnt say anything about exit bag setup being less useable. Do you have any more info? maybe can show what you say?

The unreliable and overpriced PPH isn´t worth the paper it´s printed on. You get more and better info in this forum and other books.
There are better inert gas methods, such as

SCUBA inert gas megathread

SCUBA inert gas megathread This thread was made only for the SCUBA method. For other inert gas methods please use the other threads. ************ Since my post regarding the SCUBA method in another thread, there have been many questions regarding this method in several threads and by PM...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Fandasia]

Hello :) im really happy about finding this forum and all of youre help! but i have some question because of my lack of english skills. Im from germany and have troubles to understand how much Nitrogen (Stickstoff) i need. Im confused about reading 2l and 400l im a little lost. Also i wanted to do ist with a mask. Ive seen the word "scba" mask or something i didnt unterstand or could find a explanation for this and where to find it. The hood from PPeh is about 200€ in germany so im a bit helpless

maybe we can get a megatread in german and i searched for an "searching" option in this thread but couldnt find... so i am very sorry if this is asked before. For my understanding Nitrogen is the gas what i should use due to some post said its better and safer and very peacefull? did i understand that correctly? can i store the gas tank in my car or is this too dangerous because of the high temperatures. I have to hide it till catching the bus.

Thank you!

 

[befree]

i wanted to do ist with a mask.

SCUBA inert gas megathread

SCUBA inert gas megathread This thread was made only for the SCUBA method. For other inert gas methods please use the other threads. ************ Since my post regarding the SCUBA method in another thread, there have been many questions regarding this method in several threads and by PM...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Everything you need is easy to get in Germany.

 

[Fandasia]

SCUBA inert gas megathread

SCUBA inert gas megathread This thread was made only for the SCUBA method. For other inert gas methods please use the other threads. ************ Since my post regarding the SCUBA method in another thread, there have been many questions regarding this method in several threads and by PM...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Everything you need is easy to get in Germany.

SCUBA inert gas megathread

SCUBA inert gas megathread This thread was made only for the SCUBA method. For other inert gas methods please use the other threads. ************ Since my post regarding the SCUBA method in another thread, there have been many questions regarding this method in several threads and by PM...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Everything you need is easy to get in Germany.

i found the thread just yet, thank you!

 

[Dolphin55]

For anyone who's received gas ordered online - did the delivery person ask you what it was for/other questions? What did the gas come in, just a normal box or something else? Should I be worried about having to answer questions?

 

[dm1444]

For anyone who's received gas ordered online - did the delivery person ask you what it was for/other questions? What did the gas come in, just a normal box or something else? Should I be worried about having to answer questions?

I don't think the courier should care. Usually a small cylinder is packed in a box. But if you have any questions, you can answer that the use of gas is necessary to pressurize the air conditioner (car).

 

[outrider567]

For anyone who's received gas ordered online - did the delivery person ask you what it was for/other questions? What did the gas come in, just a normal box or something else? Should I be worried about having to answer questions?

No--Yes, normal box--No--Nitrogen is used in making coffee, beer, used in Welding, and even used in a car's tires

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

i searched for an "searching" option in this thread but couldnt find...

The search function will be visible after a certain amount of posts. So try to post some more in for example the forum games.

 

[Fandasia]

t

The search function will be visible after a certain amount of posts. So try to post some more in for example the forum games.

thank you for the explanation!

 

[Techef]

No news from GasMonkey since Sunday...i have a bad feeling about it and i hope i'm wrong

Yeah, he's been super helpful and never took more than 24 hours (almost always less) to respond to any questions I had over the course of more than 2.5 months, but the last I heard from him was Saturday evening.

In case he's no longer with us, if you're in NA/US region and he told you about building this setup from scratch:

• Nitrogen cylinder
• Argon click-style regulator/flow-meter (all-in-one) - probably recommended because it is easier to source than a click-style regulator for Nitrogen
• CEJN 344 or Rectus 95KS series compatible breathing air coupler
• Drager (or 3M Scott) hood - recommended because no need to cut off plug/attach your own if you can get breathing air coupler
• (CGA-032 to 1/4" NPT adapter, if you're using the particular Argon click-style regulator)

The main advantage of this setup is ease of assembly. The Argon click-style regulator's CGA-580 male connection should screw directly into the cylinder, LPM is easy to set (conversion from Argon to Nitrogen is simple), and the Drager (or Scott 3M) hood's hose has plug/nipple type that connects directly to compatible breathing air coupler (CEJN 344/Rectus 95KS series compatible), wth the breathing air coupler screwing into the CGA-032 to 1/4" NPT middle adapter or directly to regulator/flow-meter (if you have one that doesn't require a middle adapter, probably easier to get in Europe?):



Price is around ~$500 USD excluding breathing air coupler. However, there are 2 issues with this setup. First, the Argon click-style regulator has a rounded/protruding CGA-580 male connection, so if your cylinder's CGA-580 female inlet is flat and not deep, it might not fit(?). Second, and much bigger issue: Rectus 95KS series compatible (Parker, Teesing, other OEM manufacturers) breathing air couplers appear to be rare (or impossible to find?) in US/NA. I had to call many local shops/suppliers referred to me by US customer service for CEJN/Parker/Teesing/etc. The people I spoke to at these shops told me they didn't have anything of the sort in stock, and would be surprised if stores in other regions (in the US) did either because that type of breathing air coupler was made for use in Europe. I was told I'd have to give specific dimensions, and they would try to order direct from Europe and have it sent to a local shop. Also, they weren't sure if Rectus 95KS/Parker 95/96 series couplers were even available in 1/4" NPT. They could only find information about BSPP (or "G") type connections. I had to call CEJN's US office for 3 weeks until someone finally told me who the US supplier is. They seemed to have CEJN 344 series compatible 1/4" NPT breathing coupler available (OEM model from Honeywell), but I'm not sure the Drager/3M Scott plug/nipple fits, plus the bigger issue is price: $460+ USD. This is in stark contrast to the ~$80 USD @GasMonkey told me these types of breathing air couplers are available for in Europe.

So unless I can find a compatible breathing air coupler in the US (and ideally for much lower price), I cannot recommend this setup. If anybody has tried building this setup and found a compatible breathing air coupler that I missed, I'd appreciate a PM.

 

[wanttosleep]

So I just bought a hood but it didn't come with a hose. I guess was kind of expected as the hood was only about 18usd. So does anyone know what kind of connector I need?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

In case he's no longer with us, if you're in NA/US region and he told you about building this setup from scratch:

I don't think it's allowed to post brand names.

 

[x0nSS]

I believe some users experienced failures with argon+ExitBag. The bag did not inflate properly - probably because the gas is heavy. I know there have been successes too though, so it is possible to use it, but definitely best to go with nitrogen

Can you show me where failures or successes? I am looking for more reading.

 

[ztem]

or directly to regulator/flow-meter

There's no CEJN 344 or Rectus 95KS quick coupler for the CGA-032(5/8-18) outlet for direct use.They should always use that middle adapter in US.

It is very easy to modify the hose, I don't know why people are afraid to do it.I guess these members did it. @anonaon , @k1w1 , @outrider567

500$ hood and reg+460$ for one quick coupler?
I did not know that buying NPT Rectus 95KS or CEJN series 344 is so difficult.
BSPP(for G1/4 and G3/8 regs) Rectus 95KS is available for 70-80e and CEJN series 344 is available for 40-60e.

So according to your post: About the hood setup,they can use Vizzy's hood setup almost everywhere(hood setup with modifying the hose) but about the hood+quick coupler setup(without modifying the hose) only those who have a regulator with BSPP(G1/4 or G 3/8) or BSPT(R1/4 or R3/8) outlet can use it.

If you have that CGA-032 to 1/4 NPT adapter,you just need a simple ~10$ female 1/4 NPT hose barb and you are ready to go,you don't need any extension hose since the hose of those hoods is long enough.

Or if you don't have that,you can buy the CGA-032 hose barb(and nut).

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

In both cases you have to get rid of that plug.

Edit:This is only my guess about your problem:
for US members(NPT folks) they should only use the 3M Scott,why?Because the 3M Scott's plug is CEJN 340 and we have female CEJN 340 coupler with 1/4 NPT female thread for only ~60$,interestingly you don't find CEJN 340 coupler for BSPP/BSPT thread afaik.


But for EU members(BSPP/BSPT thread) they should only use the Drager hood since the Drager hood's plug is compatible with CEJN 344 and Rectus 95KS and these two couplers are easily available in EU(for BSPP/BSPT thread) and you don't find these couplers for NPT thread.

So I just bought a hood but it didn't come with a hose. I guess was kind of expected as the hood was only about 18usd. So does anyone know what kind of connector I need?

If you want EEBD hood setup at a reasonable price, pm the members I mentioned above.they know Vizzy's source and they have ready to use EEBD setup.

 

[outrider567]

There's no CEJN 344 or Rectus 95KS quick coupler for the CGA-032(5/8-18) outlet for direct use.They should always use that middle adapter in US.

It is very easy to modify the hose, I don't know why people are afraid to do it.I guess these members did it. @anonaon , @k1w1 , @outrider567

500$ hood and reg+460$ for one quick coupler?
I did not know that buying NPT Rectus 95KS or CEJN series 344 is so difficult.
BSPP(for G1/4 and G3/8 regs) Rectus 95KS is available for 70-80e and CEJN series 344 is available for 40-60e.

So according to your post: About the hood setup,they can use Vizzy's hood setup almost everywhere(hood setup with modifying the hose) but about the hood+quick coupler setup(without modifying the hose) only those who have a regulator with BSPP(G1/4 or G 3/8) or BSPT(R1/4 or R3/8) outlet can use it.

If you have that CGA-032 to 1/4 NPT adapter,you just need a simple ~10$ female 1/4 NPT hose barb and you are ready to go,you don't need any extension hose since the hose of those hoods is long enough.

Or if you don't have that,you can buy the CGA-032 hose barb(and nut).

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

In both cases you have to get rid of that plug.

Edit:This is only my guess about your problem:
for US members(NPT folks) they should only use the 3M Scott,why?Because the 3M Scott's plug is CEJN 340 and we have female CEJN 340 coupler with 1/4 NPT female thread for only ~60$,interestingly you don't find CEJN 340 coupler for BSPP/BSPT thread afaik.
View attachment 119036

But for EU members(BSPP/BSPT thread) they should only use the Drager hood since the Drager hood's plug is compatible with CEJN 344 and Rectus 95KS and these two couplers are easily available in EU(for BSPP/BSPT thread) and you don't find these couplers for NPT thread.
View attachment 119032


If you want EEBD hood setup at a reasonable price, pm the members I mentioned above.they know Vizzy's source and they have ready to use EEBD setup.

ztem, my EEBD hood came already set up, I didn't modify any hose--I don't know where Vizzy got his EEBD hood, except its in China--He gave me a whatsapp number at one point but I lost it

 

[outrider567]

No news from GasMonkey since Sunday...i have a bad feeling about it and i hope i'm wrong

I'm getting worried also, he posts virtually every day, but its been 9 days now