Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[GasMonkey]

Jerry Hunt's website, he uses a plain old dust mask

That's not a valid implementation for Nitrogen. He used Carbon Monoxide which is a different animal.

He cuts a hole in this mask, slips a tube inside, and attaches it to a cylinder of helium. That's it. And he was successful

He used Carbon Monoxide, not Helium.

I was really just wondering if a simple non rebreather mask (one you would buy on an Amazon) could work.

NRB masks, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air and can originate issues with the mask's fit/placement in the face, which can cause air to leak into the mask, like it happened to one of the subjects on the Dignitas study.

Obviously that means that the bag is not creating a complexity airtight seal.

It does, via the positive positive pressure inside it which doesn't let any external air to enter.

Here's my confusion: If an exit bag is the "ideal" set up for the inert gas method

Nowadays there are implementations considered more "ideal" than the ExitBag like EEBD Hoods/constant flow hoods/SCBA/SCUBA.

 

[bluebus]

That's not a valid implementation for Nitrogen. He used Carbon Monoxide which is a different animal.


He used Carbon Monoxide, not Helium.


NRB masks, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air and can originate issues with the mask's fit/placement in the face, which can cause air to leak into the mask, like it happened to one of the subjects on the Dignitas study.


It does, via the positive positive pressure inside it which doesn't let any external air to enter.


Nowadays there are implementations considered more "ideal" than the ExitBag like EEBD Hoods/constant flow hoods/SCBA/SCUBA.

Thank you for clearing all of that up, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. Best,

That's not a valid implementation for Nitrogen. He used Carbon Monoxide which is a different animal.


He used Carbon Monoxide, not Helium.


NRB masks, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air and can originate issues with the mask's fit/placement in the face, which can cause air to leak into the mask, like it happened to one of the subjects on the Dignitas study.


It does, via the positive positive pressure inside it which doesn't let any external air to enter.


Nowadays there are implementations considered more "ideal" than the ExitBag like EEBD Hoods/constant flow hoods/SCBA/SCUBA.

Is there a mask that you recommend/ know of that would allow me to keep eyes uncovered. The hoods, SCBA, and SCUBA masks are all great but I am mildly claustrophobic and having my whole face covered makes me feel a bit sick to my stomach lol. If there was a way to just have my nose/ mouth/ chin covered I would much prefer that

 

[GasMonkey]

Is there a mask that you recommend/ know of that would allow me to keep eyes uncovered.

No.

 

[thot88]

It would be a question. I have to use home helium packaging when other gases are too expensive and difficult to obtain.

I am going to get the gas purity meter mentioned in this thread. How should it be used to measure gas purity?

The language barrier makes it difficult to communicate here because I don't really know English and I have to use google for help

 

[GasMonkey]

I am going to get the gas purity meter mentioned in this thread. How should it be used to measure gas purity?

 

[Das Nichts]

Is there a mask that you recommend/ know of that would allow me to keep eyes uncovered

You can probably spray paint the visor of a mask or put another bag on top of an eebd hood ?

Obviously that means that the bag is not creating a complexity airtight seal. Here's my confusion: If an exit bag is the "ideal" set up for the inert gas method, and it is not completely air tight by design, then what difference would it make if a mask was not completely air tight

Exit bag: with oxygen in your body your create CO2 while breathing. A high concentration of CO2 wile result in air hunger and the panic of suffocation.
The CO2 is purged through the bottom of the bag.

Positive pressure mask: Inside the mask the pressure is higher than the ambient pressure. The advantage is that the mask sucks to your face
when it's fixed correctly and creates a perfect seal. You will also only use gas when you breathe. If that seal is however broken you will loose
a lot of gas in a short time and it might not be able to be enough to ctb.

Negative pressure masks: Require you to place them correctly on your face to achieve seal. You will also use more gas when the fit is not perfect
but far far far less then with a positive pressure mask. You will also get fresh oxygen into your mask which could delay ctb or make it not work at all.

Like @GasMonkey said Carbon monoxide is different so you cant compare it. Look it up on wikipedia but the gist, carbon monoxide docks onto your
red blood cells like oxygen would. Leaving less and less blood cells left until you faint and die. It's a poisoning on the blood level of your body.

 

[JC96178235]

Did you get the air-to-nitrogen adapter? the DIN300 version went out of stock and they are not restocking it for some reason.


You can easy find it by searching DIN300 flow restrictor.


Any way that exposes the sensor to the gas in the cylinder while displacing the oxygen would work.

Would Crowcon Clip SGD O2 19.5/23.5% be okay to use?

 

[GasMonkey]

If that seal is however broken you will loose a lot of gas in a short time and it might not be able to be enough to ctb.

In a well tightened mask you will never have a big seal break, no matter how much do you move. There isn't any realistic situation where that will happen.
​

Negative pressure masks: Require you to place them correctly on your face to achieve seal. You will also use more gas when the fit is not perfect but far far far less then with a positive pressure mask. You will also get fresh oxygen into your mask which could delay ctb or make it not work at all.

Assuming the mask is sealing well then the difference in consumption between NP and PP wouldn't be that much, a PP LDV only maintains a PP over ambient of just 3.9mbar inside the mask, which btw helps with exhalation since this pressure also pushes against the exhalation valve which opens at 4.2mbar.

A big leak in a NP system will simply make the LDV to not open (there won't be enough pressure differential). In fact that's how SCUBA Ambient Breathing Valves work, they intentionally open a leak in the mask to breath air from the external ambient, but this won't happen accidentally anyway. @ertn used an Ambient Breathing Valve to breath air with the mask on before closing it and start breathing the Nitrogen.
​

Would Crowcon Clip SGD O2 19.5/23.5% be okay to use?

That analyzer doesn't have an inlet to pump gas into, so you would have to put it inside a bag a fill it with your gas.

 

[dm1444]

That tube is too big, you have to use Oxygen tubing or PVC tubing.
Didn't you read the PPeH?

Maybe a stupid question, but why the oxygen tube? Diameter? The elasticity? Would a coarse and large tube damage the bag?

 

[GasMonkey]

why the oxygen tube?

Low weight, good connector for barbs, recommended by the PPeH and probably the one used to determine the optimal flow rate.

Would a coarse and large tube damage the bag?

Could be difficult to use if it's too wide and heavy.

 

[JC96178235]

In a well tightened mask you will never have a big seal break, no matter how much do you move. There isn't any realistic situation where that will happen.


Assuming the mask is sealing well then the difference in consumption between NP and PP wouldn't be that much, a PP LDV only maintains a PP over ambient of just 3.9mbar inside the mask, which btw helps with exhalation since this pressure also pushes against the exhalation valve which opens at 4.2mbar.

A big leak in a NP system will simply make the LDV to not open (there won't be enough pressure differential). In fact that's how SCUBA Ambient Breathing Valves work, they intentionally open a leak in the mask to breath air from the external ambient, but this won't happen accidentally anyway. @ertn used an Ambient Breathing Valve to breath air with the mask on before closing it and start breathing the Nitrogen.
​

That analyzer doesn't have an inlet to pump gas into, so you would have to put it inside a bag a fill it with your gas.

Thank you, can you explain again like I'm 5 how to test the LDV do I keep the mask slightly off my face put the gas on and see if it maintains pressure?

Thank you, can you explain again like I'm 5 how to test the LDV do I keep the mask slightly off my face put the gas on and see if it maintains pressure?

Also can I use my bed instead of a chair and does it matter if I tie the cylinder to the side of my bed with nylon straps with metal buckles?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

probably the one used to determine the optimal flow rate.

Out of curiosity (I'm not going to use this setup myself): Do you know if these flow meters adjust for a different frictions? So let's say you make the cord more tight around your neck. Does the flow stay at 15L/min or does it go down? I know from electrical engineering that a current source (in case of gas: flow) maintains the current by adjusting voltage (in case of gas: pressure) for a different resistor (which you can compare to a different tube or more tight cord).

 

[Das Nichts]

Out of curiosity (I'm not going to use this setup myself): Do you know if these flow meters adjust for a different frictions? So let's say you make the cord more tight around your neck. Does the flow stay at 15L/min or does it go down? I know from electrical engineering that a current source (in case of gas: flow) maintains the current by adjusting voltage (in case of gas: pressure) for a different resistor (which you can compare to a different tube or more tight cord).

Doesn't matter since your *not* supposed to tighten the cord to a degree where you squeeze the tubing but to leave a gap at the bottom so CO2 can
be purged from the bag.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Doesn't matter since your *not* supposed to tighten the cord to a degree where you squeeze the tubing but to leave a gap at the bottom so CO2 can
be purged from the bag.

Okay, so you are saying that the friction of the opening is so low that it can be ignored. But I am still curious how these flow meters work. It gives me a better understanding of why certain things are being said.

 

[bluebus]

I have decided to go with an SCBA mask connected to my nitrogen cylinder. I am having a hard time finding an SCBA mask and tubing that goes along with it. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction? I would greatly appreciate it. Feel free to pm :)
I came across this mask- (I'm pretty sure links are against the rules so I will just provide the name)- Allegro Full Mask Supplied Air Respirator, Low Pressure. Does anyone know if this would work?

 

[Hodius]

Does anyone know the best source to aquire a nitrogen cylinder in the UK? thanks

 

[ztem]

I have decided to go with an SCBA mask connected to my nitrogen cylinder. I am having a hard time finding an SCBA mask and tubing that goes along with it. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction? I would greatly appreciate it. Feel free to pm :)
I came across this mask- (I'm pretty sure links are against the rules so I will just provide the name)- Allegro Full Mask Supplied Air Respirator, Low Pressure. Does anyone know if this would work?

Actually one of the members here used Allegro hood+ACU-200 flow reg.

Inert gas setups gallery. Show your setup

What size nitrogen canister do we need uk measurements 5L 200bar is the most balanced size.

sanctioned-suicide.net

Looks like your mask is also constant flow like a hood and I guess it's viable too but you need higher flow rate (to be able to meet the demands on inhalation because masks have very low inner volume) and you don't need CGA 580 to CGA 346 adapter,what you want to buy is not SCBA.For your mask you need compatible coupler for outlet of your flow regulator and the plug of your mask(+additional CGA-032 (5/8-18 UNF) to 1/4 NPT if you want to use ACU-200 flow reg).
But I don't think for example @GasMonkey recommends you to buy that mask,lets see what he has to say.

 

[GasMonkey]

I am having a hard time finding an SCBA mask and tubing that goes along with it.

Where are you from?

Allegro Full Mask Supplied Air Respirator, Low Pressure. Does anyone know if this would work?

That's not a SCBA mask, that's a constant flow mask. A mask connected to a flow regulator is not viable unless you use a huge flow rate or it has a reservoir bag in the middle (like Non-ReBreather masks) to be able to meet the demands of inhalation. A mask doesn't have enough inner volume to act as a reservoir. SCBA and SCUBA masks work because they are connected to a demand valve that pumps all the gas needed on-demand. Constant flow masks are used connected to air pumps at very high flow rates.​

Does anyone know the best source to aquire a nitrogen cylinder in the UK? thanks

You can't receive PMs, looks like your post count is too low.

 

[wanttosleep]

Hello, im from aus and trying to get a n2 setup ready and im currently looking at tanks first but the tanks that available are either 500l and 1500l which seems slightly too small or too large. i concerned about the margin for error as i am also questioning between the cheap exit bag or the more than expected expensive and harder to source SCBA. i read that SCBA would use less n.2 but not sure by how much. i am also uncertain if there are adaptors needed to make scba work in aus. i have never been very good at understanding connectors and adapters. thank you for any help on deciding what to get

 

[bluebus]

Where are you from?

That's not a SCBA mask, that's a constant flow mask. A mask connected to a flow regulator is not viable unless you use a huge flow rate or it has a reservoir bag in the middle (like Non-ReBreather masks) to be able to meet the demands of inhalation. A mask doesn't have enough inner volume to act as a reservoir. SCBA and SCUBA masks work because they are connected to a demand valve that pumps all the gas needed on-demand. Constant flow masks are used connected to air pumps at very high flow rates.​

You can't receive PMs, looks like your post count is too low.

I'm in the US, NY to be exact. I can't seem to find a mask or the tubing that goes along with it. Any advice/ guidance would be greatly appreciated

 

[winterparty]

Do you experience pain with this method? How lethal is it? So if you do it right, will it kill you all the time? How long will it take?

 

[anonaon]

Do you experience pain with this method?

No

How lethal is it?

Very

So if you do it right, will it kill you all the time?

Yes, if done properly

How long will it take?

Within 5-10 minutes

 

[GasMonkey]

can you explain again like I'm 5

No.

can I use my bed instead of a chair

Yep.

does it matter if I tie the cylinder to the side of my bed with nylon straps with metal buckles?

As long as the cylinder is secured it's ok.

Do you know if these flow meters adjust for a different frictions?

I doubt it, they look too simple for that . In ball-type flow meters if the flow goes down you can easily see it and increase it.

Actually one of the members here used Allegro hood+ACU-200 flow reg.

@rejected & @Archieozias

im from aus and trying to get a n2 setup ready and im currently looking at tanks first but the tanks that available are either 500l and 1500l which seems slightly too small or too large.

@bennydiazapine CTB'd with a Size C (3L 180bar / 540L) cylinder at 15 LPM with the escMode EEBD Kit.

i am also questioning between the cheap exit bag or the more than expected expensive and harder to source SCBA.

I'd go for an EEBD hood setup. The Australian eBay has a really good Nitrogen Dual Stage Flow Regulator that you could use to implement a setup like Vizzy's one.

For SCBA you need an air-to-nitrogen adapter to be able to connect the SCBA regulator to the Nitrogen cylinder, from the air connection (DIN300, DIN #13, G5/8") to the Nitrogen connection ("Type 50"). If such adapter isn't available in any shop the only option is to get one custom made by an engineer, @lion4000b did this for the Italian Nitrogen connector.​

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

I doubt it, they look too simple for that . In ball-type flow meters if the flow goes down you can easily see it and increase it.

Yes it looks more like pressure regulator with an extra manual valve + meter behind it. So the tube can effect the flow.

 

[Das Nichts]

Sincerely, I don't even know what this discussion is about. If you try to stress test your regulator - do it - or go to a forum for
theoretical engineering. If you wan't t to ctb - don't obstruct the outlet.

 

[wanttosleep]

I'd go for an EEBD hood setup. The Australian eBay has a really good Nitrogen Dual Stage Flow Regulator that you could use to implement a setup like Vizzy's one.

For SCBA you need an air-to-nitrogen adapter to be able to connect the SCBA regulator to the Nitrogen cylinder, from the air connection (DIN300, DIN #13, G5/8") to the Nitrogen connection ("Type 50"). If such adapter isn't available in any shop the only option is to get one custom made by an engineer, @lion4000b did this for the Italian Nitrogen connector.

Thanks for saving me a bunch of time going down the wrong path. Now gotta find the eebd hood. shame i came to this place too late to buy it as a kit from escmode

 

[KevG]

I constructed my exit bag from a turkey cooking bag. Easy to make. Tried it on and with the elastic cord it appears to fit well and is roomy. It does not bunch up near my mouth or nose. The tubing I have is clear flexible plastic. Advice here states to put the tube in so as to be at my back. My question is how far up in the bag should the end be placed? I know I've seen a photo somewhere that had it taped inside the bag with the end up high which would end up being above the top of my head once inflated. Is this correct? Or does it not matter? My concern is nitrogen, oxygen and carbon monoxide have different densities or weight. Want to make sure the nitrogen is at the top and pushing out the oxygen and carbon monoxide. Any advice or a diagram would be helpful.

 

[GasMonkey]

Playing with the EEBD hood.

 

[Eskalacianorka]

Hi again, maybe stupid question but
I have a 5L 150 bar cylinder with G3/4 inner thread and i need to connect it with SCBA regulator
In that case I need an air-to-nitrogen adapter G3/4" outside thread - 5/8" insed thread 200-200 bar, right?

 

[anonaon]

Playing with the EEBD hood.
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This is a huge slap in the face for those who wanted to buy the hood after the site went down

Can you still put it back together?