Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[BeansOfRequirement]

How do you know ?

I meant set-up, not physical pain when gassing yourself.

 

[Greenberg]

I meant set-up, not physical pain when gassing yourself.

I agree; the setup and the procurement of equipment are more involved than most.

 

[color_me_gone]

I agree; the setup and the procurement of equipment are more involved than most.

Also, expensive.
Also, for many, unconsciousness does not come as fast as the handbooks would lead you to believe.
That leads to claustrophobia, anxiety, and fighting survival instinct.

 

[BeBraveBrother]

Also, expensive.
Also, for many, unconsciousness does not come as fast as the handbooks would lead you to believe.
That leads to claustrophobia, anxiety, and fighting survival instinct.

Do you have examples where it happend that people didn't loose conciousness within the first minute?
It would be interesting to understand what didn't work in their cases.

 

[enuff]

I agree; the setup and the procurement of equipment are more involved than most.

it may be a bitch to set up but im sure its worth the effort b/c my understanding is peaceful

 

[color_me_gone]

It happened to TiredHorse, the person who started this megathread.
It happened to him several times, first while doing test runs, and then when for serious attempts.
It is all on this thread, but this thread is so long, that I don't want to look for it.
He made some speculations as to why, but never solved the problem.
He was also a gun enthusiast, and gave advise on ctb using firearms.
He made some mention of using that method to ctb.
He just disappeared from SS, no goodbye thread, no info on his final decision.
He may have finally been successful with exit bag, may have use firearm, or maybe decided to give life another chance.
He was a real nice guy, and not the type to just disappear with a word.
My gut feeling is he was finally successful, but don't know by which method.

Do you have examples where it happend that people didn't loose conciousness within the first minute?
It would be interesting to understand what didn't work in their cases.

 

[iguanah]

while i can't say i remember the exact details, i don't beleive tired horse said he didn't pass out after a minute, i beleive he said he had real trouble battle si, and he couldn't maintain his breathing, as he wasn't sober while doing it and had trouble deciding if that's what he really wanted. if your doing this you should be sure you want to ctb and you are, breathe deeply consistently for a minute, your gonna be unconsciousness, and dead shortly after.

 

[wannagohome]

My experience is that I've failed three times with eb/ig. Each time, I got close to blacking out and survival instinct kicked in and I pulled the bag away. Judging from those experiences, I don't think that an immobilizer would have helped. There's about a two minute window between when you need to have your wits about you and full coordination, to get the gas flowing and the bag ready, and when you either black out or pull the bag away. That's a rough guess, but call it two minutes between opening the valve and unconscious.

It was his SI stopping him.
The time for opening the valve, let the bag build up on your head, pull it down and take some deep breaths can feel very long.

 

[color_me_gone]

It was his SI stopping him.
The time for opening the valve, let the bag build up on your head, pull it down and take some deep breaths can feel very long.

For TiredHorse, two minutes to unconscious.
The handbooks gave the impression it was a matter of seconds.
Big difference!
I could suppress my SI for a few seconds.
Much harder for two minutes, especially under the conditions.
SI is a hardwired instinct.
You can really want to ctb, and still be troubled by SI.

 

[wannagohome]

For TiredHorse, two minutes to unconscious.
The handbooks gave the impression it was a matter of seconds.
Big difference!

Once you pulled down the bag over your face it's only seconds.
Tired Horse started counting from opening the valve which includes inflating the bag while having it around the forehead (which takes 1+ min)

 

[wannagohome]

Once you pulled down the bag over your face it's only seconds.

To confirm what i wrote i did a test by taking some breaths of nitrogen (don't try this yourself - it can get dangerous !)
Mostly because i wanted to know how it smells and tasts. Result: Fresh cool air, no taste and smell at all.
1. Without preparations: Almost no reaction after 3 or 4 breaths.
2.With some (maybe 5) hyperventilations and deeply exhaling before inhaling N2: After 2 breaths sensation started and after 3 breaths i strongly felt fading away and stopped. I had an oxygen-meter connected to my finger that rapidly fell down to 55 (normal values are above 90)

 

[BeBraveBrother]

To confirm what i wrote i did a test by taking some breaths of nitrogen (don't try this yourself - it can get dangerous !)
Mostly because i wanted to know how it smells and tasts. Result: Fresh cool air, no taste and smell at all.
1. Without preparations: Almost no reaction after 3 or 4 breaths.
2.With some (maybe 5) hyperventilations and deeply exhaling before inhaling N2: After 2 breaths sensation started and after 3 breaths i strongly felt fading away and stopped. I had an oxygen-meter connected to my finger that rapidly fell down to 55 (normal values are above 90)

That's really quite venturous - although as you say - it can quickly turn into unconciousness before one is able to pull the bag off.
It is intersting that you felt some kind of fading - some people that used nitrogen with the divers mask say they didn't even realize the moment they lost conciousness.

The oxygen-meter that is connected to the fingers isn't quite aqurate. The real amount of oxygen in the blood can only be messaured in the deep veins which only a physician is able to do. Most likely it was even under 55% saturation.
When I had a carbon monoxide posining the paramedic measured a saturation over 80 with the finger-meter - the physician in the hospital however had a signifiantly lower figure from the blood in deep veins (even the blood from the normal veins is inaccurate).

 

[wannagohome]

That's really quite venturous - although as you say - it can quickly turn into unconciousness before one is able to pull the bag off.reathing out of a balloon

I did not use a bag. I was breathing out of a ballon limited to maybe 5 or 6 breaths

It is intersting that you felt some kind of fading - some people that used nitrogen with the divers mask say they didn't even realize the moment they lost conciousness.

When you stay awake you surely remember your last seconds. When you fall unconcious you surely cannot recall the last seconds (or even more).
Anyhow it came very quickly within seconds.

The oxygen-meter that is connected to the fingers isn't quite aqurate. The real amount of oxygen in the blood can only be messaured in the deep vains which only a physician is able to do. Most likely it was even under 55% saturation.

You're right. I wanted to know if there's any effect visible - and it was, very very rapidly.

 

[BeBraveBrother]

I did not use a bag. I was breathing out of a ballon limited to maybe 5 or 6 breaths

When you stay awake you surely remember your last seconds. When you fall unconcious you surely cannot recall the last seconds (or even more).
Anyhow it came very quickly within seconds.

You're right. I wanted to know if there's any effect visible - and it was, very very rapidly.

I am thinking about trying it myself with a ballon but until I loose conciousness. I assume as soon as I faint the ballon should drop and I breathe normal air again just as it worked for those who did the trial with the divers mask unattached, holding it in their hands.. or do I think wrong?

 

[Intotheoblivion]

I had everything set with this method, but just probably saw a drop off in the pressure reading in my single stage argon regulator having not used it at all.

Is there any reason for why a pressure reading(while the tank valve is open) can drop when the tank is not in use ?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[color_me_gone]

You should keep the tank valve closed when not in use.
If it was closed, but pressure dropped since last time it was opened, then the tank valve may be leaking.
You can check for leaks by removing the regulator from the valve, use a solution of half glass of water with a few drops of dish soap in it.
Brush the soapy solution around the closed valve.
Even a small leak will produce bubbles.

 

[Intotheoblivion]

You should keep the tank valve closed when not in use.
If it was closed, but pressure dropped since last time it was opened, then the tank valve may be leaking.
You can check for leaks by removing the regulator from the valve, use a solution of half glass of water with a few drops of dish soap in it.
Brush the soapy solution around the closed valve.
Even a small leak will produce bubbles.

I think I have tried to check for leaks many times around the various areas a leak could be, and couldn't find any. I will try once more.

And yes, the tank valve is always closed when not in use.

Thank you

 

[color_me_gone]

I think I have tried to check for leaks many times around the various areas a leak could be, and couldn't find any. I will try once more.

And yes, the tank valve is always closed when not in use.

Thank you

If the tank valve is closed, and pressure drops over a period of time, it has to be the tank valve, nothing else matters at that point.
When you did the previous leak tests, did you remove the regulator and test the output of the valve?

 

[Intotheoblivion]

If the tank valve is closed, and pressure drops over a period of time, it has to be the tank valve, nothing else matters at that point.
When you did the previous leak tests, did you remove the regulator and test the output of the valve?

I understand. Thank you for explaining that to me.

I just did the leak tests only and did remove the regulator, I am not aware though of how to test the output of the valve. Is that done through something else that is to be attached to the tank ?

I only have basic knowledge about regulators, as to how to screw them on and off and same with the tank, closing and opening it

 

[color_me_gone]

I understand. Thank you for explaining that to me.

I just did the leak tests only and did remove the regulator, I am not aware though of how to test the output of the valve. Is that done through something else that is to be attached to the tank ?

I only have basic knowledge about regulators, as to how to screw them on and off and same with the tank, closing and opening it

After removing the regulator, lay the tank down with the valve output facing up, pour a small amount of soapy water into the output opening.
Watch for bubbles.

 

[Intotheoblivion]

After removing the regulator, lay the tank down with the valve output facing up, pour a small amount of soapy water into the output opening.
Watch for bubbles.

Ah. God's sake, I misunderstood what you meant earlier and I realised it just now what you meant.

Yes I had done that earlier too, found no leaks. I will try it again as well, because it's not the best of tanks I have probably as it had a loose gland nut for a long time which i got fixed recently, and there was a leak from the top of the tank where I use the spanner. So it's possible there might be a leak in some other place too.

I will check and get back with the results. Thank you again.

After removing the regulator, lay the tank down with the valve output facing up, pour a small amount of soapy water into the output opening.
Watch for bubbles.

So I just did that, and no bubbles. But ended up finding some when the regulator is screwed near the opening where the regulator is supposed to be attached.

But it would only be a problem if my tank valve was on when not using it.

Since mine has always been off, maybe one possibility I can think of is that I didn't tighten the valve strongly enough.

Could you give any idea as to what this could be and solutions for this ?

Thank you


Edit : I also should share this observation that whenever the tank is closed, I always( alot of times) end up finding the regulator filled with miniscule amount of gas which I then release by opening the flowmeter. This is after I release all the gas that might be stored in the regulator itself after closing the valve of the tank, that I find some more built up gas in the regulator after some weeks when I try to use it.
Is that normal ?

 

[color_me_gone]

Edit : I also should share this observation that whenever the tank is closed, I always( alot of times) end up finding the regulator filled with miniscule amount of gas which I then release by opening the flowmeter. This is after I release all the gas that might be stored in the regulator itself after closing the valve of the tank, that I find some more built up gas in the regulator after some weeks when I try to use it.
Is that normal ?

This right here is proof positive that it is your valve which is leaking.
You don't even need to perform a leak check.
In fact, I should have asked you if this was happening.
No, it is not normal.

I really don't know what to tell you to do to fix it.
Try turning off the valve as hard as you can, and see if it still leaks by leaving closed for a few days.
Can't change the valve without emptying the tank.
Never open a valve without a regulator on it - it is dangerous because of such high pressure in the tank.
Valves usually come with the tanks, I'm not even sure if the valves can be purchased separately.

 

[Intotheoblivion]

This right here is proof positive that it is your valve which is leaking.
You don't even need to perform a leak check.
In fact, I should have asked you if this was happening.
No, it is not normal.

I really don't know what to tell you to do to fix it.
Try turning off the valve as hard as you can, and see if it still leaks by leaving closed for a few days.
Can't change the valve without emptying the tank.
Never open a valve without a regulator on it - it is dangerous because of such high pressure in the tank.
Valves usually come with the tanks, I'm not even sure if the valves can be purchased separately.

These tanks that use a spanner to turn on and off take so much brute force that it never seems enough when they are being closed.

Thanks for the tip about the regulator, I am aware of not opening the tank valve without it.

I am planning to take it to a place where it can be refilled to know from them how much gas is left in it, and that will give me an idea of the leakage and how much it has leaked because I had it refilled recently and it's supposed to be full.

Thanks alot for clearing things up <3

 

[Tarod]

Hello
I just finished reading this whole tread, it took me a while but I didn't wanted to ask if my question had already been answered but to my surprise my concern hasn't really been discussed at length, about three people mentioned @planmd @MG_39 and @Lookingforabus but there hasn't been really satisfying answers.
I have a good understanding of the method and have almost all the necessary equipment but I want to make absolutely certain that I will not take that bag off my head whether consciously or unconsciously I understand that this might not be necessary but I feel that this is very important and don't want to leave it to chance so I want to find a way so that my arms can be restrained with no chance of breaking lose after I put the bag down.
I really hope someone can help me figure this out.

 

[enuff]

Hello
I just finished reading this whole tread, it took me a while but I didn't wanted to ask if my question had already been answered but to my surprise my concern hasn't really been discussed at length, about three people mentioned @planmd @MG_39 and @Lookingforabus but there hasn't been really satisfying answers.
I have a good understanding of the method and have almost all the necessary equipment but I want to make absolutely certain that I will not take that bag off my head whether consciously or unconsciously I understand that this might not be necessary but I feel that this is very important and don't want to leave it to chance so I want to find a way so that my arms can be restrained with no chance of breaking lose after I put the bag down.
I really hope someone can help me figure this out.

i have an idea that might work for you @Tarod. i plan to ctb with exit bag method in my car. i am looking for a chinese finger trap and use it to lock my fingers, with my hands through my steering wheel, to prevent me from ripping it off my head. amazon has a bunch of them, but they seem to be for children and i have big fingers. and I only need one, and amazon sells them by the dozen. wtf. why can't i buy just one?

 

[Tarod]

That's very ingenious @enuff thanks for sharing, I've considered using my car too but decided against it mostly based on the principle of restraining myself, my plan is to use a chair inside my house, I will bolt the chair legs to a sheet of plywood so it will not tip over or move at all, my ankles will be starped to the chair legs and my torso straped to the back of the chair so no chance of bending forward and I'll make sure the chair back is not so tall so that no mater how I move my neck, nothing will touch the bag.
I've never had a chance to play with the chinese finger traps, they might work but I'm not sure, I would have to try them first.
I want to do this in a meditative state of mind where my analytical mind would be almost null.
I dream of modifying the chair arms to be like boxes for my arms so that when my arms go down into them they would automatically lock behind my arms, kind of like the way doors close themselves after you go through them but I haven't been able to fully designing it mostly due to my depression I'm sure, my creative mind is fading...
Thanks to anyone who would share some ideas.

 

[enuff]

That's very ingenious @enuff thanks for sharing, I've considered using my car too but decided against it mostly based on the principle of restraining myself, my plan is to use a chair inside my house, I will bolt the chair legs to a sheet of plywood so it will not tip over or move at all, my ankles will be starped to the chair legs and my torso straped to the back of the chair so no chance of bending forward and I'll make sure the chair back is not so tall so that no mater how I move my neck, nothing will touch the bag.
I've never had a chance to play with the chinese finger traps, they might work but I'm not sure, I would have to try them first.
I want to do this in a meditative state of mind where my analytical mind would be almost null.
I dream of modifying the chair arms to be like boxes for my arms so that when my arms go down into them they would automatically lock behind my arms, kind of like the way doors close themselves after you go through them but I haven't been able to fully designing it mostly due to my depression I'm sure, my creative mind is fading...
Thanks to anyone who would share some ideas.

dude, thx for the compliment . but seems to me you overthinking this a litte. i think, too many variables & too many points of failure. got to keep it simple.
i found a lot of how-to sites for making the chinese finger trap, so looks like i may end up making it myself. that at least may be fun. and it'll be cool to make my own death trap!

 

[Tarod]

Yes, you are right, I tend to overthink but sometimes that helps me see more perspectives and possibilities and avoid mistakes.
long story short I decided to just use some handcuffs which I got for about 80 dollars, one pair for each hand, attached to my chair arms.
Pretty simple and most importantly, fail proof.

 

[enuff]

good luck @Tarod. please plan well, read all you can here on SS, and most of all, keep it simple. the worst thing about ctb is missing the damn bus.

 

[Tarod]

I hear you brother, I pray that I catch that bus the way I intend to.