Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Greenberg]

There is a diagram in my blog which recommends a typical setup. With respect to assembly, it is very simple. Please feel free to chat or PM me. Cheers!

 

[lonelygirl66]

Could you buy a tank of Nitrogen or Argon. Go into an airing cupboard and make it air tight. Then open the tank fully and just wait to pass out and die.

 

[Greenberg]

Could you buy a tank of Nitrogen or Argon. Go into an airing cupboard and make it air tight. Then open the tank fully and just wait to pass out and die.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. May I suggest that you stick with a tried-and-true application like the exit bag. It would simply require too much time and effort to prove-out another method.

 

[bov]

Could you buy a tank of Nitrogen or Argon. Go into an airing cupboard and make it air tight. Then open the tank fully and just wait to pass out and die.

Even if it were air tight, you'd have to get all the oxygen out. That's what's tricky.

 

[bov]

I know brain damage comes in degrees but I'd like to know at what point in the process would you be unable to back out? Could you severely damage yourself before the point where you'd black out?

 

[bov]

Maybe endergamez or aap would know

 

[marooned]

In this video Philip Nitschke says you'll die within "3 to 4 minutes" using nitrogen and an exit bag which is much quicker than many other estimates I've heard - I'd appreciate any comments and thanks for participating in this very helpful forum.

 

[godenhea]

Sorry for my english, i'm from polish and i write with google translator.

New applications

According to my tests and analyzes, after filling the bag with inert gas and putting it on our head, we will pass out after about 10 seconds, similar to hanging (lack of oxygen in the brain).

Is it not the case that the mere loss of consciousness in the bag will kill us, even without a continuous supply of inert gas?

If we are unconscious, it means that the oxygen in the bag is already being bought, so even if the cylinder fails, we will not be able to breathe on our head in a year (the body will keep trying to breathe until we die)

I tried to breathe in from the bag until all the oxygen was used up, and then I was unable to take any more puffs. The sack stuck to the mouth and air from outside did not flow through the rubber band.

What do you think about it?

I know that for safety it is better for the inert gas to flow in all the time, but it's nice to know that if something goes wrong, we will be successful anyway.

 

[Lastsauce]

Is it not the case that the mere loss of consciousness in the bag will kill us, even without a continuous supply of inert gas?

The continous gas flow removes remaining oxygen and prevents CO2 accumulation (Hypercapnia) in the bag which causes great distress even to an unconscious person.

 

[godenhea]

The continous gas flow removes remaining oxygen and prevents CO2 accumulation (Hypercapnia) in the bag which causes great distress even to an unconscious person.

Yes, I agree with that, but it only matters until you pass out (20 seconds).

If you become unconscious and the inert gas is turned off, there will be no panic attack because the brain has passed out, is unconscious and will not give you any signal that you are breathing CO2.

The neck elastic will also keep no oxygen inside (I tested).

I'm writing with a google translator and that's why maybe it's harder to understand me.

 

[Nyxtus]

When it comes to Nitrogen and other gases, I assume you can't have them shipped because it's dangerous. If I were to purchase a tank online, would I have to head over to one of these gas suppliers (like a welding supplier) and have them fill it up? And if so, do I have to pay for the nitrogen or is it free depending on the supplier of the tank? I ask because I don't have a car currently and would have to take an uber or manage to get it into my giant backpack. I'm trying to finalize all the details before I make the purchases and just need the last bits of info. Thanks!

 

[endergames]

When it comes to Nitrogen and other gases, I assume you can't have them shipped because it's dangerous. If I were to purchase a tank online, would I have to head over to one of these gas suppliers (like a welding supplier) and have them fill it up? And if so, do I have to pay for the nitrogen or is it free depending on the supplier of the tank? I ask because I don't have a car currently and would have to take an uber or manage to get it into my giant backpack. I'm trying to finalize all the details before I make the purchases and just need the last bits of info. Thanks!

Presuming you purchased a cylinder online, your local gas supplier would've to cross-fill your tank from their inventory of larger tanks.

As it goes with everything else in life, nothing is free. With no vehicle at your disposal, I would suggest that you purchase an aluminum tank instead of a steel one. It would weigh a third of a steel tank so it won't break your back lugging it around. You'll need around 20cf of N2 gas.

Not sure if you've a regulator; just ensure that it has an integrated flow meter for N2. A regulator without a flow meter is no good for your application.

 

[Predestinated]

People, it's not so complicated

Read the PPH

Sorry for the stupid question, but what does "PPH" stand for?

 

[Greenberg]

PPH stands for Peaceful Pill Handbook.

 

[Intotheoblivion]

Don't have a great knowledge of tanks, but just the basics of how to operate one.

I was trying to open the valve on before getting a practice run going but noticed hissing sound and some smoke coming from the top of the valve, and immediately closed the valve.

That's a faulty tank I have, right ?

 

[Greenberg]

Don't have a great knowledge of tanks, but just the basics of how to operate one.

I was trying to open the valve on before getting a practice run going but noticed hissing sound and some smoke coming from the top of the valve, and immediately closed the valve.

That's a faulty tank I have, right ?

There should not be any smoke. Perhaps, it was condensed (nitrogen) gas coming out? Nonetheless, it warrants a visit to your nearest gas supplier shop for a checkup. Best regards.

 

[Intotheoblivion]

There should not be any smoke. Perhaps, it was condensed (nitrogen) gas coming out? Nonetheless, it warrants a visit to your nearest gas supplier shop for a checkup. Best regards.

Yup, sent a photo of where the smoke was from, and the supplier suggested the same thing as you did, but quickly realised it was a leak. Will get it sent to him and have the gland nut tightened

Thanks for your response. Much appreciated

 

[Predestinated]

Why dont you guys just use an oxygen mask? much easier, more effective and prettier than a plastic bag

 

[Lastsauce]

Bag is simple to make, it seals well and is proven to work.
There are so many types of masks (oxygen/scba/cpap etc) and they all need modifications to even have a chance of working.
Keep it simple and the only technical part left is the regulator.

 

[Predestinated]

Bag is simple to make, it seals well and is proven to work.
There are so many types of masks (oxygen/scba/cpap etc) and they all need modifications to even have a chance of working.
Keep it simple and the only technical part left is the regulator.

which modifications?

 

[Greenberg]

which modifications?

I believe he is referring to the modifications made to the mask so that it can be properly be connected to the flow regulator.

 

[Predestinated]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

How pure must the gas be? I have access to Nitrogen (99,996%.) Is it enough?

 

[Lastsauce]

How pure must the gas be? I have access to Nitrogen (99,996%.) Is it enough?

Absolutely fine. Let's just round it up to 100%, it's close enough.

 

[Deleted member 23726]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Doesnt the size of the cylinder depend on how much liters of gas there is? Like if i go to the store and ask them for 600 Liters of nitrogen, wouldnt they give me a cylinder of their choice depending on what fits the 600 liters of nitrogen gas?

 

[Predestinated]

Doesnt the size of the cylinder depend on how much liters of gas there is? Like if i go to the store and ask them for 600 Liters of nitrogen, wouldnt they give me a cylinder of their choice depending on what fits the 600 liters of nitrogen gas?

may i ask why you need 600 liters? I thought a "bottle" of 10 liters will be enough?

 

[marooned]

I believe he is referring to the modifications made to the mask so that it can be properly be connected to the flow regulator.

I recently purchased a mask and a regulator/flow meter from Amazon US and was pleased to to learn the female connector on the mask screws easily onto the male connector (where you attach the included barbed thingie) on the flow meter.

Even if I decide to remove the mask from the hose and use just the line into a bag I already have an easy connection to the tank apparatus.

BETOOLL HW9003 Argon/CO2 Mig Tig Flow Meter Gas Regulator Gauge

1-Pack Westmed #0367 Non-rebreather Mask, Adult, no Safety Vent, w/7' Kink Resistant Tubing & Threaded Nut

FWIW

 

[Deleted member 23726]

I recently purchased a mask and a regulator/flow meter from Amazon US and was pleased to to learn the female connector on the mask screws easily onto the male connector (where you attach the included barbed thingie) on the flow meter.

Even if I decide to remove the mask from the hose and use just the line into a bag I already have an easy connection to the tank apparatus.

BETOOLL HW9003 Argon/CO2 Mig Tig Flow Meter Gas Regulator Gauge

1-Pack Westmed #0367 Non-rebreather Mask, Adult, no Safety Vent, w/7' Kink Resistant Tubing & Threaded Nut

FWIW

View attachment 53391View attachment 53392

Can you show us a picture of the mask? And can you personal message me for the link of which brand is the mask and regulator/flow meter?

Presuming you purchased a cylinder online, your local gas supplier would've to cross-fill your tank from their inventory of larger tanks.

As it goes with everything else in life, nothing is free. With no vehicle at your disposal, I would suggest that you purchase an aluminum tank instead of a steel one. It would weigh a third of a steel tank so it won't break your back lugging it around. You'll need around 20cf of N2 gas.

Not sure if you've a regulator; just ensure that it has an integrated flow meter for N2. A regulator without a flow meter is no good for your application.

What is the difference between regulator and flow meter?

may i ask why you need 600 liters? I thought a "bottle" of 10 liters will be enough?

Im not sure one of the threads said we need 600 liters

Bag is simple to make, it seals well and is proven to work.
There are so many types of masks (oxygen/scba/cpap etc) and they all need modifications to even have a chance of working.
Keep it simple and the only technical part left is the regulator.

Can we use a scuba diving mask?

I recently purchased a mask and a regulator/flow meter from Amazon US and was pleased to to learn the female connector on the mask screws easily onto the male connector (where you attach the included barbed thingie) on the flow meter.

Even if I decide to remove the mask from the hose and use just the line into a bag I already have an easy connection to the tank apparatus.

BETOOLL HW9003 Argon/CO2 Mig Tig Flow Meter Gas Regulator Gauge

1-Pack Westmed #0367 Non-rebreather Mask, Adult, no Safety Vent, w/7' Kink Resistant Tubing & Threaded Nut

FWIW

View attachment 53391View attachment 53392

Do you mean if you decide last minute to use a bag over your head instead of a mask, u can put the tube easily in the bag?

Absolutely fine. Let's just round it up to 100%, it's close enough.

Is industrial nitrogen gas enough?

 

[Predestinated]

hey guys, is there a tutorial video for making Exit Bags?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Can you show us a picture of the mask? And can you personal message me for the link of which brand is the mask and regulator/flow meter?

What is the difference between regulator and flow meter?

Im not sure one of the threads said we need 600 liters

Can we use a scuba diving mask?

Do you mean if you decide last minute to use a bag over your head instead of a mask, u can put the tube easily in the bag?

Is industrial nitrogen gas enough?

5 l under a pressure oft 200 bar are 1000 liters uncompressed.

may i ask why you need 600 liters? I thought a "bottle" of 10 liters will be enough?

I think 5l of compressed gas are enough

 

[Lastsauce]

hey guys, is there a tutorial video for making Exit Bags?

Here's one.