Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Greenberg]

Final Exit said to get that size. I didn't know there was a standard size for oxygen and I didn't see any information in the thread about what hose I would need. I suppose oxygen tubing is what I'll have to rush order then

Please note that some of these resources are dated. What may have been a standard or prevalent once, may have changed.
If you are using gas tubing for medical applications, the 5mm ID is pretty much the standard.

 

[ophiastri]

So I just measured the hose barb and the diameter at the widest part of the taper is 5/16" and not 3/16". I'll see if I can reel in a coil of 5/16" tubing at the store tomorrow (unless you say I need to go down to 5mm to allow the hose to stretch over the barb.) I appreciate your patience and trying walk me through this.

 

[Greenberg]

So I just measured the hose barb and the diameter at the widest part of the taper is 5/16" and not 3/16". I'll see if I can reel in a coil of 5/16" tubing at the store tomorrow (unless you say I need to go down to 5mm to allow the hose to stretch over the barb.) I appreciate your patience and trying walk me through this.

There is no need to go down to 5mm. As long as you can secure the hose to the barb, you are okay. ;)

 

[ophiastri]

There is no need to go down to 5mm. As long as you can secure the hose to the barb, you are okay. ;)

I should be good then, finally. Thanks for all the help in this thread and to anyone who finds this later, best wishes with your struggles. Hope my posts can help someone else.

 

[AdiosAmigos]

Just tried this. Used a turkey roasting bag with an elastic draw cord all held together by micropore. Got a 55cf tank of nitrogen, flow meter/regulator w/ hose barb for argon which I converted to Nitrogen measurements using Greenbergs website, and some tubing from Home Depot (1/4 I believe). Went to the back of my car, placed the tank on the seat next to me, hooked everything up, and started up the gas. Also played my favorite song on my phone to distract from the noise (wasn't really all too loud) and to calm my nerves. It took a bit longer than a minute to fill my bag. More like 5+ minutes for it to fully inflate. Pull down was a breeze and wasn't suffocating or anything. I don't know how long the bag was on my head, it felt like 10 minutes but realistically maybe like a minute. I was breathing in long deep breathes and I think tasted the nitrogen or maybe that was my toothpaste lol (it was a sweet taste). It was a bit slow but each breathe I felt myself slowly knocking out and the windows around me started turning purple. Then out of nowhere I found myself breathing hard and the bag in front of my hands. I must have pulled it off without thinking or something. I'm back in my house now a bit dazed but otherwise fine. Processing everything right now but Gonna give it a go tomorrow again. Maybe have a generous amount of alcohol for the nerves.

 

[AdiosAmigos]

Tried again. I definitely recommend trying this a few times so your body gets comfortable. I'm not sure if my flow is bad/inaccurate or my breathes aren't good or just my survival instinct kicking but I'll reach a point after a few breathes where I will start shaking and my body will remove the bag. I'm thinking it's more Survival instinct mixed with just being uncomfortable with the bag. My local praxair only sells 55cf tanks so I highly recommend getting this size or a 40 since you may have to do some practice runs. It should cost about $170ish for the tank and $16 for the nitrogen. Gonna give it a few more gos and see if I can do this.

 

[Bauhaus]

^^ Thanks for your story, keep us updated.

 

[ophiastri]

Tried again. I definitely recommend trying this a few times so your body gets comfortable. I'm not sure if my flow is bad/inaccurate or my breathes aren't good or just my survival instinct kicking but I'll reach a point after a few breathes where I will start shaking and my body will remove the bag. I'm thinking it's more Survival instinct mixed with just being uncomfortable with the bag. My local praxair only sells 55cf tanks so I highly recommend getting this size or a 40 since you may have to do some practice runs. It should cost about $170ish for the tank and $16 for the nitrogen. Gonna give it a few more gos and see if I can do this.

Ugh. I'm just praying that I don't fail tomorrow. I've already made all of my preparations, thrown things out, negated my cash flow, etc. If I wake up there's a chance it will be too late to cover everything up and I would face a living hell in a facility on top of the issues I have that are already too much to deal with right now.

Do you think that something like sitting on your hands would stop your body from being able to react unconsciously? Obviously, you don't want to handcuff yourself in case something goes wrong.

Also, what is the time frame that you were waking up in? Minutes later? Hours?

 

[Deafsn0w]

I emailed MDB and got a $330 refund and bought a Medline HCS5415M and a CGA-540 to CGA-580 adapter for only $65. Medline HCS5415M is very similar to the MDB one.

 

[nitroautnz]

I emailed MDB and got a $330 refund and bought a Medline HCS5415M and a CGA-540 to CGA-580 adapter for only $65. Medline HCS5415M is very similar to the MDB one.
View attachment 46159

Oh thank for all this information! I will look for tsoing the same, I'm tired of waiting for a shipping

 

[endergames]

I emailed MDB and got a $330 refund and bought a Medline HCS5415M and a CGA-540 to CGA-580 adapter for only $65. Medline HCS5415M is very similar to the MDB one.
View attachment 46159

(Future reviewers, please take note!)

Please, please, be doubly careful with this improvised setup.

Please don't take this wrong. I'm not trying to belittle or minimize your contribution. This jerry-rig has been suggested before and it makes me grimace with fear every time it's mentioned. I appreciate the attractiveness to economize or to take pleasure in the exercise of one's ingenuity.

I work as a Respiratory Therapist and we're never allowed to use adapters in a clinical setting, such as the ones shown in your photo. Beyond hazardous gas properties, there are reasons why this is never done in practice or in industry. The most notable one is safety!!

By connecting an adapter to a high-pressure source, you've magnified the weak link (cylinder pressure valve) in a 3000psi compressed gas system! That's one of the reasons why the industry has chosen not to employ the "multi-head screwdriver" approach. You're exposing yourself to potentially serious injury, which I believe you'll agree would be counterproductive to a successful CTB.

Gas regulators are designed as compact and short as possible. By extending the connector with adapters, you've significantly reduced the force needed to dislodge the cylinder pressure valve. This is analogous to opening a jar. It's considerably easier to turn the lid with one's forearm than with one's wrist.

An accidental knock of the regulator may dislodge the cylinder valve or any part of the cylinder-to-regulator connection; and your cylinder becomes a cruise missile with a chaotic flight path looking for a target.

There's also the possibility of cross- or strip-threading of the adapters to the connector. Adapters are generally made out of softer brass to facilitate good seals. The more nuts you need to tighten, the greater the chance of misthreading.

Lastly, If the budget is of an issue instead of using an adapter, may I suggest you consider using an industrial regulator with an integrated flowmeter? At least, it will be less flimsy than the modified regulator you've depicted in your photo.

Again, I appreciate your contribution; and apologize in advance if I come across as being forceful. I'm simply highlighting potential danger where it ought to be noted. A successful CTB should never be left to chance.

 

[Deafsn0w]

(Future reviewers, please take note!)

Please, please, be doubly careful with this improvised setup.

Please don't take this wrong. I'm not trying to belittle or minimize your contribution. This jerry-rig has been suggested before and it makes me grimace with fear every time it's mentioned. I appreciate the attractiveness to economize or to take pleasure in the exercise of one's ingenuity.

I work as a Respiratory Therapist and we're never allowed to use adapters in a clinical setting, such as the ones shown in your photo. Beyond hazardous gas properties, there are reasons why this is never done in practice or in industry. The most notable one is safety!!

By connecting an adapter to a high-pressure source, you've magnified the weak link (cylinder pressure valve) in a 3000psi compressed gas system! That's one of the reasons why the industry has chosen not to employ the "multi-head screwdriver" approach. You're exposing yourself to potentially serious injury, which I believe you'll agree would be counterproductive to a successful CTB.

Gas regulators are designed as compact and short as possible. By extending the connector with adapters, you've significantly reduced the force needed to dislodge the cylinder pressure valve. This is analogous to opening a jar. It's considerably easier to turn the lid with one's forearm than with one's wrist.

An accidental knock of the regulator may dislodge the cylinder valve or any part of the cylinder-to-regulator connection; and your cylinder becomes a cruise missile with a chaotic flight path looking for a target.

There's also the possibility of cross- or strip-threading of the adapters to the connector. Adapters are generally made out of softer brass to facilitate good seals. The more nuts you need to tighten, the greater the chance of misthreading.

Lastly, If the budget is of an issue instead of using an adapter, may I suggest you consider using an industrial regulator with an integrated flowmeter? At least, it will be less flimsy than the modified regulator you've depicted in your photo.

Again, I appreciate your contribution; and apologize in advance if I come across as being forceful. I'm simply highlighting potential danger where it ought to be noted. A successful CTB should never be left to chance.

Ok thanks for letting me know. I'll be careful with this setup. I got these stuff mainly because someone successfully ctb with this setup. You can check his thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/max-dog-regulator-ridiculous-price.18831/

 

[Greenberg]

Though the Megathreads are moderated to a degree, they are not edited for accuracy. As there is no exchange of consideration, literally anyone who can type can convey themselves as self-proclaimed experts, and unknowingly (or knowingly) convey misinformation with no obligation to the safety of the reader.

Common-sense must prevail. Just by the length of the regulator, you should get the idea that it might be an unsafe option.

With that said, you might ask why do adapters exist at all? They exist for specialized and occasional applications, such as to purge gas and liquid systems. And generally speaking, close-to-empty cylinders are used to minimize potential harm should containment somehow fails. 300psi will do a lot less damage than say, 3000psi.

Draught beer, for example, comes in pressurized kegs. To clear stagnant beer, or any liquid for that matter, a gas -- nitrogen, being inert -- is used to flush out the lines and remove any buildup or debris.

 

[Deafsn0w]

I emailed MDB and got a $330 refund and bought a Medline HCS5415M and a CGA-540 to CGA-580 adapter for only $65. Medline HCS5415M is very similar to the MDB one.
View attachment 46159

Update: I replaced CGA 540 with CGA 580.

 

[TheQ22]

I thought this was now considered to be a bad idea? This kind of long protruding valve/regualtor/missile igniter?

 

[Greenberg]

From what I can gather from the photo @Deafsn0w disassembled the oxygen connector and replaced it with a nitrogen connector. Needless to say, it voids the warranty on the regulator.

I just hope that the internals (like the relief valve) have not been disturbed. An over-pressure without relief would indeed damage the regulator; I do not think it can explode. Nonetheless, I would be worry to test a homebrewed device without a full understanding of the mechanics of a high-pressure reducing regulator. Personally, I would not take the risk just to save a buck or two. I would give it a 50/50 chance of it working as intended.

It is important to note that all regulators are designed and constructed to be gas specific. Mind you the molecular weights of diatomic oxygen and nitrogen are close.

 

[Deafsn0w]

From what I can gather from the photo @Deafsn0w disassembled the oxygen connector and replaced it with a nitrogen connector. Needless to say, it voids the warranty on the regulator.

I just hope that the internals (like the relief valve) have not been disturbed. Nonetheless, I would be worry to test a homebrewed device without a full understanding of the mechanics of a high-pressure reducing regulator. Personally, I would not take the risk just to save a buck or two. I would give it a 50/50 chance of it working as intended.

It is important to note that all regulators are designed and constructed to be gas specific. Mind you the molecular weights of diatomic oxygen and nitrogen are close.

MDB is an oxygen regulator with a nitrogen/argon CGA 580.

 

[TheQ22]

Needless to say, it voids the warranty on the regulator.

I'd imagine the warranty might also not incude connecting it to a bag and sticking it over your head.

Sorry to be flippant, it just struck me as an odd consideration, unless you're planning on living and suing.

 

[Greenberg]

I am not going to convince you otherwise. No one will stop you from taking unnecessary risks.

These are differences between oxygen and nitrogen regulators. For instance, WTFarley sells both but at substantially different prices. An oxygen one at $61 and a nitrogen one at $138. In fact, you will notice that regulators for varying gases differ in price.

Now if MDB, says they are selling nitrogen regulators, albeit a retrofitted one. I can only say that what they sell is safe for nitrogen usage. I do not know what retrofits they do to adapt oxygen regulators to become nitrogen ones. But they guarantee you are buying a nitrogen regulator.

I'd imagine the warranty might also not include connecting it to a bag and sticking it over your head.

Sorry to be flippant, it just struck me as an odd consideration, unless you're planning on living and suing.

The worse part is that you may suffer from brain damage and do not know what is happening all around you! LOL

 

[TheQ22]

I am not going to convince you otherwise. No one will stop you from taking unnecessary risks.

These are differences between oxygen and nitrogen regulators. For instance, WTFarley sells both but at substantially different prices. An oxygen one at $61 and a nitrogen one at $138. In fact, you will notice that regulators for varying gases differ in price.

Now if MDB, says they are selling nitrogen regulators, albeit a retrofitted one. I can only say that what they sell is safe for nitrogen usage. I do not know what retrofits they do to adapt oxygen regulators to become nitrogen ones. But they guarantee you are buying a nitrogen regulator.

The worse part is that you may suffer from brain damage and do not know what is happening all around you! LOL

Yeah fair point - living and having brain damage is a big no-no for me.

 

[nitroautnz]

Another person mention that before, I need to find the post, but oxygen regulator use with nitrogen is actually ok, it's only an issue because of gas contamination but since you will only use it on one type of gas. The problem could be if it cant resist to the canister pressure

 

[TheQ22]

The worse part is that you may suffer from brain damage and do not know what is happening all around you! LOL

It's DEATH OR NOTHING!!!

(well when I say nothing, I mean keep on living)

 

[nitroautnz]

I am not going to convince you otherwise. No one will stop you from taking unnecessary risks.

These are differences between oxygen and nitrogen regulators. For instance, WTFarley sells both but at substantially different prices. An oxygen one at $61 and a nitrogen one at $138. In fact, you will notice that regulators for varying gases differ in price.

Now if MDB, says they are selling nitrogen regulators, albeit a retrofitted one. I can only say that what they sell is safe for nitrogen usage. I do not know what retrofits they do to adapt oxygen regulators to become nitrogen ones. But they guarantee you are buying a nitrogen regulator.

The worse part is that you may suffer from brain damage and do not know what is happening all around you! LOL

It was proven in a previous pos that mdb use a WTFairley oxygen regulator by checking the serial number.

 

[Greenberg]

Very true, good point! Oxygen is stored at a lower pressure than nitrogen. The structural integrity of the oxygen regulator would be an issue. I guess if the nitrogen pressure is lowered, by simple venting, then the regulator may be okay. But then nitrogen gas is wasted!

 

[nitroautnz]

Very true, good point! Oxygen is stored at a lower pressure than nitrogen. The structural integrity of the oxygen regulator would be an issue. I guess if the nitrogen pressure is lowered, by simple venting, then the regulator may be okay. But then nitrogen gas is wasted!

Not really what I say, i will look tonight where this was discuss, but it was mention that oxygen can withstand the pressure, because of the higher standard required to manufacture oxygen regulator

 

[TheQ22]

Very true, good point! Oxygen is stored at a lower pressure than nitrogen. The structural integrity of the oxygen regulator would be an issue. I guess if the nitrogen pressure is lowered, by simple venting, then the regulator may be okay. But then nitrogen gas is wasted!

Even dying isn't straightforward. In some ways it's harder than living. I'm going to put together a "buy it now" nitrogen kit with all the parts included.

Once I work out what they are.

Which will be never.

 

[Greenberg]

It was proven in a previous pos that mdb use a WTFairley oxygen regulator by checking the serial number.

I am not confident if one can be absolutely certain that MDB did not do a significant retrofit on the oxygen regulator more than replacing the connector.

Not really what I say, i will look tonight where this was discuss, but it was mention that oxygen can withstand the pressure, because of the higher standard required to manufacture oxygen regulator

Oxygen regulators are manufactured without oil-based lubricants so as not to result in ignition. Nitrogen is lighter than oxygen so it can be compressed further.

Going back through the threads, I believe it was @endergames who mentioned that the industry (whom I can only presume as the authority) avoided the use of a "multi-headed screwdriver" approach for high-pressure regulators connectors. I think ultimately it is not really about if it will work or not, but will it work safely?

As an analogy, a tire manufacturer says that summer tires are only good for the summer. I would have the tendency to follow their guideline. No doubt, one can drive in the winter with summer tires...until an accident occurs. Doubly relevant if the tires were initially installed by a layperson and not a mechanic.

In short, I think where we differ in opinion is how high is the threshold of safety must be to be deemed good enough. I prefer that threshold to be as high as possible and leaving nothing to chance. I cannot even take apart a toaster and put one back together. I am going to trust the professionals who do this for a living.

 

[endergames]

Update: I replaced CGA 540 with CGA 580.
View attachment 46620

Oh dear! I didn't log in one day and this is posted.

@Deafsn0w: I sincerely believe you're trying to make a positive contribution. Having said that, you may not appreciate the ramification of your post. Your post is made on a Megathread, as such it's an indelible recording of your regulator modification.

Unlike a regular forum post, Your post will be available on this site for a LONG time. Are you willing to take the responsibility for the safety of other people coming after you who may decide to attempt your modification?

Why am I saying this? A gas regulator is a highly engineered, compact mechanical device. The design and materials used are dictated by the unique characteristics of the gas it's to deliver. As such, the industry meticulously crafted interconnection specifications to ensure safety, even for the layperson. Again, common sense should prevail to guide one's actions to follow guidelines.

By blindly substituting a part and bypassing safety protocols, you've changed the downstream pressure requirements of the regulator. Let's pray that your device design is robust enough to withstand the greater pressures of compressed nitrogen, which can be up to 3000psi or higher, as opposed to the lower (2300psi) pressures of compressed oxygen. That's why, nitrogen regulators cost more to manufacture than oxygen ones.

At least now you know, if the relief valve mechanism was disturbed in anyway during your modification and the regulator chassis fails, why schrapnel is flying uncontrollably everywhere.

Choose to do what you may; I'll speak no further to your antics.

 

[Deafsn0w]

Oh dear! I didn't log in one day and this is posted.

@Deafsn0w: I sincerely believe you're trying to make a positive contribution. Having said that, you may not appreciate the ramification of your post. Your post is made on a Megathread, as such it's an indelible recording of your regulator modification.

Unlike a regular forum post, Your post will be available on this site for a LONG time. Are you willing to take the responsibility for the safety of other people coming after you who may decide to attempt your modification?

Why am I saying this? A gas regulator is a highly engineered, compact mechanical device. The design and materials used are dictated by the unique characteristics of the gas it's to deliver. As such, the industry meticulously crafted interconnection specifications to ensure safety, even for the layperson. Again, common sense should prevail to guide one's actions to follow guidelines.

By blindly substituting a part and bypassing safety protocols, you've changed the downstream pressure requirements of the regulator. Let's pray that your device design is robust enough to withstand the greater pressures of compressed nitrogen, which can be up to 3000psi or higher, as opposed to the lower (2300psi) pressures of compressed oxygen. That's why, nitrogen regulators cost more to manufacture than oxygen ones.

At least now you know, if the relief valve mechanism was disturbed in anyway during your modification and the regulator chassis fails, why schrapnel is flying uncontrollably everywhere.

Choose to do what you may; I'll speak no further to your antics.

If anyone ever wants to attempt my modification, I don't recommend anyone to do this for safety reasons. If they want to get a similar regulator to the MDB. They can buy a Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA 580. It has the same design as the MDB, but for nitrogen usage. I only modify my regulator to test if it works. But I'm also planning to buy a Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA 580.

 

[Deafsn0w]

If anyone ever wants to attempt my modification, I don't recommend anyone to do this for safety reasons. If they want to get a similar regulator to the MDB. They can buy a Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA 580. It has the same design as the MDB, but for nitrogen usage. I only modify my regulator to test if it works. But I'm also planning to buy a Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA 580.

Update: I tested and it worked perfectly. No leaks. It took like 30 seconds to fill the bag.