Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[TheQ22]

Wow. I thought it had been decided that kind of regulator was a mistake?

 

[Greenberg]

I do not know. As @endergames said, @Deafsn0w is flipflopping among her antics. She does have the right to risk her own safety. Let us leave it at that!

You do notice though that the pressure gauge is under 2000psi!! She was very lucky.

 

[Deafsn0w]

I do not know. As @endergames said, @Deafsn0w is flipflopping among her antics. She does have the right to risk her own safety. Let us leave it at that!

You do notice though that the pressure gauge is under 2000psi!! She was very lucky.

According to PPH, it says that I need to refill my tank if my regulator shows under 2000 psi. So should I refill my tank?

 

[Greenberg]

@Deafsn0w: for your safety, I sincerely suggest that you stop your "tests". Your repurposed regulator is designed for oxygen which is typically compressed at a lower pressure. If you refill your cylinder, you dramatically increase the risk of device failure. Going back to my summer tire analogy, you can drive with summer tires in winter until an accident occurs. Best regards.

 

[Deafsn0w]

@Deafsn0w: for your safety, I sincerely suggest that you stop your "tests". Your repurposed regulator is designed for oxygen which is typically compressed at a lower pressure. If you refill your cylinder, you dramatically increase the risk of device failure. Going back to my summer tire analogy, you can drive with summer tires in winter until an accident occurs. Best regards.

I don't understand why it is dangerous. MDB regulator is actually modified. You can see the MDB pressure gauge and it says "Oxygen" and the maximum pressure is 3000 psi, which is the exact same as mine. I modified my regulator because I wanted to copy MDB.

 

[Greenberg]

Do what you may with your modifications. You obviously do not respect nor appreciate safety protocols! Nothing I say will change your mind. I just pray that you do not get seriously injured from your equipment meddling...Good luck to you!!

 

[nitroautnz]

Wow. I thought it had been decided that kind of regulator was a mistake?

Decided by who ?

Do what you may with your modifications. You obviously do not respect nor appreciate safety protocols! Nothing I say will change your mind. I just pray that you do not get seriously injured from your equipment meddling...Good luck to you!!

If you know what your doing and careful, they are made that you can change the connection, otherwise they would have to manufacture a different one for each country.

 

[CVLife1973]

Maybe I didn't look at it closely enough, but the one with the visor doesn't appear to have a top, just a second elastic band to go around your brow --it's more an exit sleeve than an exit bag. Since a major element of using an eb is to first squish all the air out, then inflate it with an inert gas, and only then pull it down over your face, the design shown would appear to be a mechanism intended more to prevent the refreshing of air than the creation of an anoxic atmosphere.

In other words, it's meant to help you use up a small amount of existing air inside the "bag" than to replace the air with an inert gas atmosphere.

If I understand correctly from what reading I've done on the internet, this approach --heavily sedated suffocation-- is an ancestor of inert gas asphyxiation. It relies on a heavy dose of the less-fatal sedation drugs common today, now that the older, more-fatal barbituate sedations are no longer so readily available.

Tangent: If I had to guess, one line of practice for a peaceful exit evolved thus:

1) An overdose of readily available barbituate sleeping pills provided fatal sedation. (This became the ideal of today: N.)
2) When less-fatal benzodiazepines replaced barbituates, the exiteer donned an exit bag to die by suffocation, using a heavy dose of benzos for sedation deep enough to overpower their hypercapnic alarm.
3) Someone realized that inert gas would remove the frustating hypercapnic alarm from the equation, rendering sedation unneccessary, so readily available balloon helium was used to inflate the exit bag.
4) Party supply companies began to adulterate their He with air, making He unreliable, and users of eb/ig technique changed to N2 or Ar.

I just bought this helium tank, it's 99.9% pure helium but it's only 7.9 cu. Should I even bother? I was going to use a CPAP mask instead of the exit bag.

 

[Greenberg]

Decided by who ?

If you know what your doing and careful, they are made that you can change the connection, otherwise they would have to manufacture a different one for each country.

I will not banter over aspects of what works and what does not.

If you do not value safety and careless to serious injury, please make whatever modifications you see fit. Unless you are an engineer knowledgable of pneumatics and strength of materials, you are tinkering blindly with an explosive device. You do not have to believe me, just look at the photos below. I certainly would not want to be around when the breach occurred. It would appear in both cases, the relief valves failed.



The industry does produce a different regulator for every region and tested as such. Regulators are produced and tested based on the gas characteristics they deliver. If you believe otherwise, please go to any hospital and ask if employing a multi-headed screwdriver approach for regulators is practiced and prudent? The regulator connector is never disturbed.

I quote @endergames, a Respiratory Therapist: "The design and materials used are dictated by the unique characteristics of the gas it's to deliver. As such, the industry meticulously crafted interconnection specifications to ensure safety, even for the layperson." Proceed at your peril.

I thought the premise behind the exit bag was peaceful and painless CTB. I do not see how recklessly overriding safety protocols would achieve that.

 

[enuff]

Perhaps this post is meant to be humorous and not a serious suggestion, and if so, I don't mean any offense to @TheQ22, but even if so, I feel it is important for me to give my opinion in case others may try something like this idea. I don't believe it would work at all, and it is an example of a lack of understanding of how inert gas works.

Inert gas causes coma and death by preventing oxygen from being inhaled and absorbed by the lungs, and when breathing in an enclosed space such as a plastic bag, displacing and flushing away exhaled air containing carbon dioxide so it isn't breathed again which would trigger the hypercapnic response and create the urge to seek fresh air. To create the required nearly pure nitrogen environment, the air would first somehow need to be removed from the refrigerator and then replaced with nitrogen at atmospheric pressure. Then, unless the volume of the refrigerator is high enough that the exhaled CO2 can diffuse into the inert gas to a very low concentration, which to me is doubtful, a steady flow of inert gas would be required to continue to purge the exhaled CO2 so it isn't breathed again. Since gas is being added to the space, gas must be allowed to escape at the same rate to prevent the pressure from increasing, so a vent is required, which wouldn't be present in a tightly sealed refrigerator. Additionally, the volume of gas required would be many times that required for an oven bag.

i'd like to add my 2 cents worth. if you put a hole in the gasket at the bottom of the door (cut it, damage it, rip it, idm) , then as N2 fills the space, and fills the top like inside an exit bag, and as your CO2 and air gets pushed to the bottom of the space and vents out the hole in the gasket, the space will eventually fill with N2. question is how big of a vent hole is the right size? and how much pressure to set the regulator gauge?

my refrigerator is 22 cf, and i'm not even sure if i can squeeze my fat ass inside it, but that 22cf minus the volume of my body makes for a smaller volume inside. and my N2 cyl. is 40 cf. I could even get a larger standup freezer, like from CL, and may even get paid to take it away for someone if it's not working if i do it right.

i thought this up late last night and wrote a post about it this morning here => https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-alternative-exit-box.50376/#post-916052

would love your feedback.

 

[endergames]

I just bought this helium tank, it's 99.9% pure helium but it's only 7.9 cu. Should I even bother? I was going to use a CPAP mask instead of the exit bag.

You're short on helium. Aim for 20 cubic feet of gas.

 

[TheEndIsIrrefutable]

So my gas regulator arrived today. In the packing it included two O-rings (hard plastic), and I have no clue where they are intended go. They did not fit anywhere near the hose barb. One of them might be intended for the inlet, but I'm unsure about it.

 

[TheEndIsIrrefutable]

So my gas regulator arrived today. In the packing it included two O-rings (hard plastic), and I have no clue where they are intended go. They did not fit anywhere near the hose barb. One of them might be intended for the inlet, but I'm unsure about it.

View attachment 47475

Update: I did not bother with the O-rings and the regulator seemed to worked perfectly fine without them.

First attempts on making a exit bag were a total failure. The bag did not fill up at all, so I'm guessing that there must have been a leak somewhere in the bag. Turkey roasting bags like suggested are not available in my country, so I'll need to find some alternative to it that works. There are generic roasting bags, but the ones I tried did not work out.

 

[Deafsn0w]

Is argon setup quiet enough to not wake people up?

 

[Greenberg]

Is argon setup quiet enough to not wake people up?

@Deafsn0w: Argon is usually compressed at pretty high pressures (close to 2600psi). A full tank of nitrogen would be compressed even higher near 3000psi. If we are to correlate higher noise with higher pressure, it might be slightly quieter than nitrogen but not by much. I think the quietest exit bag method is to employ a diving mask with a demand valve. Hope that helps!

 

[Rafa-11:11]

Chiming in as I bought a MBD regulator and i'ts also fitted with an oxygen pressure gauge, reading Greenberg advice (thanks btw) made me feel very uncomfortable after paying high $$ to MBD, now browsing the net I found a device that looks almost identical but for a third of the price, the pressure gauge is rated for 3K PSI and says medical Nitrogen (not sure why someone would need to be pumped with nitrogen at the hospital) this one is called "Nitrogen click style regulator CGA580" and has a 15 LPM volume feed as well.

Question would it be safer to get rid of the MBD and buy this one rated for Nitrogen instead?

thank you.

 

[Greenberg]

Chiming in as I bought a MBD regulator and i'ts also fitted with an oxygen pressure gauge, reading Greenberg advice (thanks btw) made me feel very uncomfortable after paying high $$ to MBD, now browsing the net I found a device that looks almost identical but for a third of the price, the pressure gauge is rated for 3K PSI and says medical Nitrogen (not sure why someone would need to be pumped with nitrogen at the hospital) this one is called "Nitrogen click style regulator CGA580" and has a 15 LPM volume feed as well.

Question would it be safer to get rid of the MBD and buy this one rated for Nitrogen instead?

thank you.

@Rafa-11:11: I have never purchased an MBD regulator so I cannot attest to their quality and authenticity. I went with escmode instead as they guarantee they are genuine nitrogen regulators and their craftsmanship is top-notch!

But according to MDB's site, they "say" their regulators are marketed as "nitrogen regulators." Whereas on the escmode regulator, the pressure gauge is generic with no gas indicated. Moreover, the connector is visually congruent with the body and does not look like an obvious replacement.

If you are not satisfied with your purchase, return it, demand a refund, and buy something else.

To answer your question as to why hospitals require nitrogen regulators: they are employed to provide mixed gases for therapeutic reasons.

For patients who have respiratory disorders, such as COPD and emphysema, nitrogen gas is employed in conjunction with oxygen at specific ratios. Due to a decline in lung capacity, these patients cannot breathe enough oxygen from the air. So they are given oxygen therapy but 100% oxygen is toxic. Instead, oxygen gas is given in combination with nitrogen.

Due to the potential use of nitrogen regulators for CTB, almost all manufacturers have decided not to sell them to the general public.

 

[Rafa-11:11]

Thank you very much Greenberg wow admire your expertise, ups you are right, I just noticed that it can't be sold to individuals but only to brewing or medical facilities...will take a look at the other option you mentioned thanks again...

 

[Greenberg]

Thank you very much Greenberg wow admire your expertise, ups you are right, I just noticed that it can't be sold to individuals but only to brewing or medical facilities...will take a look at the other option you mentioned thanks again...

My pleasure @Rafa-11:11. I am glad to be of assistance. Please feel free to PM me if you have further questions. Best regards.

 

[TheEndIsIrrefutable]

I've decided to use Argon since that was the easiest gas for me to acquire. The gas cylinder I got is supposed to have 1200 L at 200 bar, but the bar meter in the gas regulator peaked at 100 bar. After testing out a few exit bags for around 5-6 minutes in total, the bar meter is now down to about 80 bar.

Is it supposed to start out at 100 bar? Or was the cylinder delivered with too little gas?

 

[Greenberg]

I've decided to use Argon since that was the easiest gas for me to acquire. The gas cylinder I got is supposed to have 1200 L at 200 bar, but the bar meter in the gas regulator peaked at 100 bar. After testing out a few exit bags for around 5-6 minutes in total, the bar meter is now down to about 80 bar.

Is it supposed to start out at 100 bar? Or was the cylinder delivered with too little gas?

It looks like the cylinder was only filled halfway when it was delivered.

 

[TheEndIsIrrefutable]

It looks like the cylinder was only filled halfway when it was delivered.

Thank you! It was what I suspected, and it's really good to get a second opinion to confirm it.

So, I guess I'll just use the remaining gas to experiment with until it's empty, and then get the empty cylinder exchanged on Monday.

 

[Greenberg]

Thank you! It was what I suspected, and it's really good to get a second opinion to confirm it.

So, I guess I'll just use the remaining gas to experiment with until it's empty, and then get the empty cylinder exchanged on Monday.

Based on my conversions, your 1200L is equal to approximately 42cf. So if you do not want to carry around such a large cylinder, you can go for half the size at around 20cf of Argon. Plus, it was only cost you half the price!

 

[TheEndIsIrrefutable]

Based on my conversions, your 1200L is equal to approximately 42cf. So if you do not want to carry around such a large cylinder, you can go for half the size at around 20cf of Argon. Plus, it was only cost you half the price!

Thanks, but the cylinder I went for is the most commonly available in my region for private customers. A smaller cylinder that would work is essentially impossible for me to get. The only other option that's available is 5 times smaller than my current one, which is way too little for my intended purpose. Besides, transporting the cylinder hasn't been an issue so far. I can hide and carry the cylinder in a huge backpack in the areas where I can't carry it openly without drawing suspicion. Obviously, when I do that, I treat the backpack with extreme care.

The price isn't that much of an issue, it's just annoying that I have to make another trip. I could probably have complained and got half-price on the next bottle, but I don't want to draw any form of attention at all.

 

[ts0hill]

PPH

What does the PPH stand for? I been tryin to search for what it means for a while

 

[Deafsn0w]

What does the PPH stand for? I been tryin to search for what it means for a while

Peaceful Pill Handbook

 

[DocNo]

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar).

i am wondering if 600 liters is really necessary.
as far as i understand it, you lose consciousness pretty quickly. so theoretically 200 liters may be enough, cause if hypercapnic alarm occurs, you are already blacked out and the lack of oxygen in the brain would it make unlikely that somehow you regain consciousness. and if you die by inhaling the inert gas or some co2 or whatever is left in the bag wouldn't really matter in this stage of unconsciousness.
or am i misunderstanding something here?

about the helium: in the security description of my bottle stands 100% helium. i guess they won't lie about that. sounds maybe paranoid but at a big decision like this, i prefer to clear out every possible eventuality.

 

[job1315]

I heard PPH is out of date on Exit Bag. Is that true?

 

[Greenberg]

I heard PPH is out of date on Exit Bag. Is that true?

Probably is. If you would up-to-date info on the Exit Bag method, please feel free to go to my blog (under my name). Basically, it has everything you ever what to know about the method. Best regards!

 

[job1315]

Probably is. If you would up-to-date info on the Exit Bag method, please feel free to go to my blog (under my name). Basically, it has everything you ever what to know about the method. Best regards!

Thank you, is there a stupid simple buying Guide and assembly guide out there? Thank you