Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Sillybilly123]

There is a diagram in my blog which recommends a typical setup. With respect to assembly, it is very simple. Please feel free to chat or PM me. Cheers!

Hi, do you have a link for the set up?

 

[Greenberg]

Hi, do you have a link for the set up?

The link to my blog is under my name. Best regards!

 

[4DluvOFpeace]

Please help with information, I have one Helium gas 420L [Balloons] but 100% Helium, now I need a suitable flow meter or regulation thing to maintain the necessary 15L/minute.... Nothing expensive please, help. This bellow is available in my country for only $26 and I read on final exit that 2 tanks are not needed for Hilium gas Exit bag method if you can find that thing with will simply allow a good flowrate of 15, any ideas for what kind of flow rate to connect to my Helium tank?

High Pressure Regulator 25/sg315h | Wedoall

High Pressure Regulator WDA70.

wedoall.co.za

 

[Greenberg]

Please help with information, I have one Helium gas 420L [Balloons] but 100% Helium, now I need a suitable flow meter or regulation thing to maintain the necessary 15L/minute.... Nothing expensive please, help. This bellow is available in my country for only $26 and I read on final exit that 2 tanks are not needed for Hilium gas Exit bag method if you can find that thing with will simply allow a good flowrate of 15, any ideas for what kind of flow rate to connect to my Helium tank?

High Pressure Regulator 25/sg315h | Wedoall

High Pressure Regulator WDA70.

wedoall.co.za

The photo you have attached is a pressure regulator, not a flow regulator. A flow regulator is an integrated regulator with a flow meter. Do you know which connection standard is employed in your region (i.e., CGA, DIN, BSP, etc.)?

 

[wannagohome]

After having read this Megathread (partially even twice) i'm building my setup now performing some tests. Everything goes quite well but i struggle somehow with the tube/hose.
I have two kinds of tube:
1) PVC tube with ID=6mm (1/4") OD=9mm , flexible but maybe not flexible enough.
This one can easily be led into the bag and be fixed there with Micropore tape. The problem is that it is twisting the bag around the point where it is fixed as it is rather stiff regarding this kind of movement. It seems that sometimes the tube ist doing what it wants. There's some tension in the material as it was delivered rolled up. Also depending on the angle it goes into the bag there is a significant space besides the tube between bag and neck where some air could get in (shouldn't due to the flowing nitrogen but ...)
2) a standard oxygen tube like the one in the Betty-videos, standard connector with ID=6mm.
These are super elastic, no problem with the bag but the diameter of the tube itself is much smaller than the connector (maybe ID=3mm) so i am not sure wether it can handle the 15l/min flow
I also tested a silikon tube but this one is so flexible that it is difficult to securely fix it to the hose barb.

What kind of tube do you use and how do you lead it from the flow regulator into the bag in a controlled way? How do you fix it in the bag? Any tips and tricks from what you have tested?

 

[Greenberg]

Use the standard oxygen tubing with duck tape.

 

[wordsonscreen]

Thoughts on which tank to buy?

https://www.shopcross.com/nitrogen-n2-calibration-gas-17L-114

The customer service person here^ really stressed that these are CALIBRATION gases and not physical gasses. I dont know what that means.
They also have an argon tank

Nitrogen (N2) 34 Liter Cylinder 99.999% Pure

Nitrogen (N2) 34 Liter Cylinder 99.999% Pure - Nitrogen (N2) 34 Liter Cylinder 99.999% Pure Old Part Number: HP1066 New Part Number: H1066 ...

www.jjstech.com

There is also JJS.
Will either of these work??

may i ask why you need 600 liters? I thought a "bottle" of 10 liters will be enough?

I know, same. I dont know why. Books say 10-20L is enough. people on here claim 600L.

 

[FML@2021]

Does anyone know which wrench size to use with the [removed due to sourcing] nitrogen regulator?
How tight does the regulator nut need to be screwed?

I tried tightening the [removed due to sourcing] regulator to the cylinder valve with an adjustable wrench, but every time I turn on the cylinder, gas blows out of the valve.

Thanks

 

[wannagohome]

For the wrench size you can contact [removed due to sourcing] support as it depends on the model you have (Europe, US ...).

 

[FML@2021]

For the wrench size you can contact [removed due to sourcing] support as it depends on the model you have (Europe, US ...).

Thanks. I have the US model with the CGA-580 connection. I called [removed due to sourcing] and the owner didn't know which size wrench to use. I told him that WT Farley's nitrogen click regulator uses a CGA 580 cylinder connection (1 1/8" nut - uses 1 11/16" or 1 13/16" wrench), and he said not to go by their specs because that's a completely different product. I thought CGA-580 connections were standard?

He said he would go home and measure the nut and get back to me, but it wouldn't be for a couple of days. So if anyone has any experience with the [removed due to sourcing] regulators, your feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Greenberg]

Thanks. I have the US model with the CGA-580 connection. I called [removed due to sourcing] and the owner didn't know which size wrench to use. I told him that WT Farley's nitrogen click regulator uses a CGA 580 cylinder connection (1 1/8" nut - uses 1 11/16" or 1 13/16" wrench), and he said not to go by their specs because that's a completely different product. I thought CGA-580 connections were standard?

He said he would go home and measure the nut and get back to me, but it wouldn't be for a couple of days. So if anyone has any experience with the [removed due to sourcing] regulators, your feedback would be much appreciated.

Hmm...just by eyeing the screw nut a 1 11/16" or 1 13/16" wrench would be about right. I do not have a pair of vernier caliber to give you a precise measurement but my cheapie plastic ruler says its pretty close. I also checked the CGA standard specifications for you and it specifies everything except the nut size. To minimize a wrong purchase, may I suggest that you consider purchasing a small variable wrench, often referred to as a "monkey" wrench. Hope that helps.
Here is a photo of a typical variable wrench.

 

[BeBraveBrother]

I found a guy who's spraying water with soap between the connections (Bottle / Flowmeter / Hose)

Does anyone know this method? Is soap okay on that items or could it even loosen things?




Interesting part starts around 1:28

 

[Cryptomatica]

Sorry to ask this, but would a turkey oven bag with a sewed-together elastic band that you put over the bag work? And will you feel any weird physical sensations before you pass out?

Also, is this method usually successful?

I tried reading the FAQ on this as much as I can.

 

[wannagohome]

I found a guy who's spraying water with soap between the connections (Bottle / Flowmeter / Hose)

Simple test without soap and water: Regulator must be connected of course. Close flowmeter valve and open tank valve. The pressure gauge shows the pressure of the tank - no gas is flowing. Close tank valve again and wait for some minutes. If the gauge remains unchanged the connection between tank and regulator is tight and the regulator itself is also fine.

 

[wordsonscreen]

Does anyone know which wrench size to use with the [removed due to sourcing] nitrogen regulator?
How tight does the regulator nut need to be screwed?

I tried tightening the [removed due to sourcing] regulator to the cylinder valve with an adjustable wrench, but every time I turn on the cylinder, gas blows out of the valve.

Thanks

my god those regulators are so expensive!!! like 300???? really? No cheaper options?

Simple test without soap and water: Regulator must be connected of course. Close flowmeter valve and open tank valve. The pressure gauge shows the pressure of the tank - no gas is flowing. Close tank valve again and wait for some minutes. If the gauge remains unchanged the connection between tank and regulator is tight and the regulator itself is also fine.

Are there videos of how to attach all this stuff? How do I learn?

 

[BeBraveBrother]

my god those regulators are so expensive!!! like 300???? really? No cheaper options?

Are there videos of how to attach all this stuff? How do I learn?

The mechanical welding regulators are much cheaper.

In germany they start from 100 Euro.

 

[Greenberg]

Your post is off topic to this thread. Please address any concerns you have with my blog via PM.

However, I sense you may be unhappy with your purchase because you were unable to tighten the connector to the valve. I might be wrong but I do not think it is manufacturer specific. Your new adjustable wrench will resolve that issue.

I respect your difference of opinion to those of the blog.

Best, Greenberg

 

[FML@2021]

I don't believe my post is off topic to this thread in any way. In fact, it is entirely pertinent to this thread and it's fully in line with all the previous posts on this thread that have addressed nitrogen regulators and people's experience with them. I express no difference in opinion to those of your blog in my post- I was just asking if you might be able to further advise on some of your posts b/c I think the information would be valuable for this thread, as all of your posts provide very valuable and helpful information.

I'm not unhappy that I was unable to tighten the connector to the valve. I was just trying to problem solve why I'm having an issue even after tightening the connector to the cylinder valve. Of course I would've really liked to be able to make this set up work without having to spend additional money purchasing another adjustable wrench. And I certainly hope that I won't need to spend any more money beyond that to get this up and running.

Thank you for your help and your posts. They've been a great source of info.

 

[FML@2021]

I found a guy who's spraying water with soap between the connections (Bottle / Flowmeter / Hose)

Does anyone know this method? Is soap okay on that items or could it even loosen things?

Thanks for this video. Very helpful. When my wrench arrives, I'm going try this soap/water spray method to check for leaks. I read about this the other week on the thread: No 'o' ring on U.K. max dog regulator.

I checked by spraying soapy water on both tank connection and hose connection, only 2 places where issues could occur. Apart from that, the only leak would be from the bag itself. If all 3 are good then the method should work perfectly.

Very minute leakages in a gas joint can be detected by brushing a bit of slightly soapy water onto the connection; if you see bubbles appearing, that's the gas leaking out. (You can also see this process in a YouTube video). If you can actually hear and feel the leak, you've done something wrong--you don't have a good connection

Fightingsioux's posts are super helpful and informative. He seemed like a really knowledgeable and amazing dude.

put some dish soap and water (50/50) in a spray bottle and spray it when it's pressurized. I don't think even a small leak would hinder the end goal. I havn't used a nitro bottle in a while the threads might be reversed. (lefty tighty) Youtube "soapy water leak test"

 

[Greenberg]

I do not know what you want. I have already volunteered my assistance on your nut/wrench issue.

My blog is a separate entity independent of SS with specific focus on the Nitrogen Exit method. It provides commentary and discussions relevant to what I have found to be recurring topics from the forum. And I offer it openly and freely to the SS community.

Again, you are welcome to PM me if you any issues with my blog; alternatively, you can place comments on my blog. Thank you.

 

[FML@2021]

I do not know what you want. I have already volunteered my assistance on your nut/wrench issue.

My blog is a separate entity independent of SS with specific focus on the Nitrogen Exit method. It provides commentary and discussions relevant to what I have found to be recurring topics from the forum. And I offer it openly and freely to the SS community.

Again, you are welcome to PM me if you any issues with my blog; alternatively, you can place comments on my blog. Thank you.

if you read my post, there is only one post from your blog that I asked for clarification on. The remaining four questions are regarding your posts made on SS that are relevant to the Nitrogen Exit Method. I know my original post is way too long, so I've listed the questions below. If you would prefer not to address them, that's absolutely fine. I was merely hoping that if it's not too much trouble, that you would be so kind as to further advise on posts that you made. Again, I very much appreciate your assistance on my nut/wrench issue.

1. On Aug 15, 2020, you wrote: "From my understanding, the Max Dog Brewing flow regulator as a click-style regulator is calibrated at 50psi output pressure with a variable flow rate of 0 to 15LPM. In contrast, the flow regulator I purchased from escmode is calibrated at 50psi output pressure with a variable flow rate of 0 to 25LPM."

*Could you advise where you received the information that the escmode nitrogen regulator is calibrated at 50psi output? This info is not provided on Escmode's website and it's not provided on the product itself, like it is on MDB's regulator (Stepheng7287 posted a picture of the MDB regulator with "50 PSI O2 REGULATOR" etched on the body).

2. You wrote in a post on Sept 14, 2020: "I am not affiliated with escmode. I and others have simply purchased from them in the past, and they have proven to be a reliable online retailer. I have personally found their products to be of higher quality and workmanship."

*Would you be so kind as to direct me to the "others" that you're referring to who purchased the Escmode regulator? I'd like to PM them and get their opinion and help using this product.

3.In regards to your following posts on Sept 14, 2020 that you "have personally found their (Escmode) products to be of higher quality and workmanship" and on Oct 15, 2020, "I have never purchased an MBD regulator so I cannot attest to their quality and authenticity." —

*Can you please advise which products from Escmode you were referring to that you found of higher quality and workmanship, and which products you were comparing them against? (As all of Escmode's products are designed for the Nitrogen Exit Method)

4. I haven't been able to find anything on Escmode Nitrogen regulators aside from the posts I've mentioned above, which are mostly yours. So if you and anyone else could share any further information on their experience using / testing this product and opinions on the quality etc, that would be incredibly helpful to myself and other members researching which regulator to purchase.

5. THIS IS THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD THAT REFERRED TO A POST ON YOUR BLOG: *The Escmode website does not state that their Americana N2 Flow Regulator has FDA certification and is FDA approved. Can you please advise how you confirmed that Escmode's nitrogen regulator is a genuine and "true medical-grade nitrogen regulator?"

 

[Predestinated]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

I want to use N2. How much of N2 do i need? someone said 5liters were enough. I doubt it.

@all What's your opinion? what do you guys think, how much of N2 is required for exit bag method?

 

[Greenberg]

if you read my post, there is only one post from your blog that I asked for clarification on. The remaining four questions are regarding your posts made on SS that are relevant to the Nitrogen Exit Method. I know my original post is way too long, so I've listed the questions below. If you would prefer not to address them, that's absolutely fine. I was merely hoping that if it's not too much trouble, that you would be so kind as to further advise on posts that you made. Again, I very much appreciate your assistance on my nut/wrench issue.

1. On Aug 15, 2020, you wrote: "From my understanding, the Max Dog Brewing flow regulator as a click-style regulator is calibrated at 50psi output pressure with a variable flow rate of 0 to 15LPM. In contrast, the flow regulator I purchased from escmode is calibrated at 50psi output pressure with a variable flow rate of 0 to 25LPM."

*Could you advise where you received the information that the escmode nitrogen regulator is calibrated at 50psi output? This info is not provided on Escmode's website and it's not provided on the product itself, like it is on MDB's regulator (Stepheng7287 posted a picture of the MDB regulator with "50 PSI O2 REGULATOR" etched on the body).

2. You wrote in a post on Sept 14, 2020: "I am not affiliated with escmode. I and others have simply purchased from them in the past, and they have proven to be a reliable online retailer. I have personally found their products to be of higher quality and workmanship."

*Would you be so kind as to direct me to the "others" that you're referring to who purchased the Escmode regulator? I'd like to PM them and get their opinion and help using this product.

3.In regards to your following posts on Sept 14, 2020 that you "have personally found their (Escmode) products to be of higher quality and workmanship" and on Oct 15, 2020, "I have never purchased an MBD regulator so I cannot attest to their quality and authenticity." —

*Can you please advise which products from Escmode you were referring to that you found of higher quality and workmanship, and which products you were comparing them against? (As all of Escmode's products are designed for the Nitrogen Exit Method)

4. I haven't been able to find anything on Escmode Nitrogen regulators aside from the posts I've mentioned above, which are mostly yours. So if you and anyone else could share any further information on their experience using / testing this product and opinions on the quality etc, that would be incredibly helpful to myself and other members researching which regulator to purchase.

5. THIS IS THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD THAT REFERRED TO A POST ON YOUR BLOG: *The Escmode website does not state that their Americana N2 Flow Regulator has FDA certification and is FDA approved. Can you please advise how you confirmed that Escmode's nitrogen regulator is a genuine and "true medical-grade nitrogen regulator?"

I acknowledge your questions are reasonable and legitimate. However, the SS website was suspended yesterday night. I have decided to limit any detailed posts for the time being. Sorry to disappoint. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[wannagohome]

Another detailed question regarding the Exit Bag.
Usually oven bags are recommended but a manual from exitinternational is suggesting bags made from LDPE.
What do you think is the better one (if any)
Oven Bag: Pro: Thin and light but stable Contra: Noisy, wrinkled therefore leaving gaps at the elastic drawstring
LDPE bag: Pro: No noise, fits well to the skin at the neck Contra: More heavy, doesn't get so well inflated

What do you think is the better one (if any) ?

 

[color_me_gone]

Another detailed question regarding the Exit Bag.
Usually oven bags are recommended but a manual from exitinternational is suggesting bags made from LDPE.
What do you think is the better one (if any)
Oven Bag: Pro: Thin and light but stable Contra: Noisy, wrinkled therefore leaving gaps at the elastic drawstring
LDPE bag: Pro: No noise, fits well to the skin at the neck Contra: More heavy, doesn't get so well inflated

What do you think is the better one (if any) ?

Fits well to the skin at the neck would not be an advantage.
Looseness is necessary to allow CO2 + N2 to exit the bag.
Recommended is to be able to easily place two fingers under the drawstring.
You could probably still do that with LDPE, as long as you don't cinch the elastic too tight.
This is the first I've heard of other than oven bags recommended.

 

[wannagohome]

Understood that CO2 and O2 shall leave the Bag together with N2. But i'm afraid of air getting air in there despite the constant N2 flow due to sudden movements of the bag while convulsions. I did a dry run without N2 flow of course and felt the fresh air coming in while breathing with the bag on my head. With LDPE i felt that CO2 was rising and after 90sec breathing became difficult and urging.

 

[color_me_gone]

View attachment 59774
Understood that CO2 and O2 shall leave the Bag together with N2. But i'm afraid of air getting air in there despite the constant N2 flow due to sudden movements of the bag while convulsions. I did a dry run without N2 flow of course and felt the fresh air coming in while breathing with the bag on my head. With LDPE i felt that CO2 was rising and after 90sec breathing became difficult and urging.

It is the N2 flow that keeps outside air from entering into the bag.
A tighter fit is not necessary.
Your blood oxygen level has momentum.
It takes time to drop, it takes time to rise.
By the time you are convulsing, your blood O2 is very low.
Small amounts of O2 entering the bag would not be enough to raise blood O2 of any significance.

 

[wannagohome]

A tighter fit is not necessary.

That's the theory which i very well understand. My brain says it correct. Can you rely on any practical experience (not by yourself). When i'm testing here it - let's say - feels somehow too open for me. More tight feels better although i know the CO2 is aggregating in the bag when it's not flushed away easily.
Does anybody here have practical experiences with testing the Exit Bags or photos or .... whatever. Please PM me.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

This method is such a fucking pain in the dick. Mendokse...

 

[wannagohome]

This method is such a fucking pain in the dick. Mendokse...

How do you know ?