Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[throwaway2goawy]

Hi, I'm going with this method due to the issues getting SN in the UK. From my understanding I should be getting the Britannia Nitrogen Flow Regulator and the Non-Rebreather Gas Mask w/ Tubing from escMode (the mask sounds better than the bag but not sure of the downside of this).

For the gas, is a 2.1m3, 230bar Cylinder ok? I'm really confused with the maths based side of this so any help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[Greenberg]

2.1m3 is equivalent to ~74cf which is more than enough for your needs. You only need around 20cf so you have more than 3X the amount. The pressure is a little high but you should be okay.

 

[throwaway2goawy]

2.1m3 is equivalent to ~74cf which is more than enough for your needs. You only need around 20cf so you have more than 3X the amount. The pressure is a little high but you should be okay.

Ah perfect, there's another that is only slightly less cf but is 200 bar, I'm assuming that's a better option then? Thanks!

 

[Greenberg]

Yes, a little smaller at 200bar is fine. Try to pick one that is made of aluminum as opposed to steel as it would be much lighter. See if you can include a valve protector handle with it. For the non-rebreather, it is relatively inexpensive; if the fit is not good then go for the bag. Cheers

Yes, a little smaller at 200bar is fine. Try to pick one that is made of aluminum as opposed to steel as it would be much lighter. See if you can include a valve protector handle with it. For the non-rebreather, it is relatively inexpensive; if the fit is not good then go for the bag. Cheers

Feel free to pm me if you have more questions.

 

[throwaway2goawy]

In case this helps anyone this is all the equipment - had to pay extra for the gas including a big deposit to avoid questions etc. which the other companies were asking. Not sure when I'll ctb but feel so happy I at least have a method now - I'm not the type of person to rashly go doing it so happy to have it stored away for now.

edit: removed my pic as has the company name for the gas on - I just got the flow regulator and mask with tube as my previous messages (came in a week, much earlier than the estimate) and a 200 bar tank - steel so heavy but I was fine to carry it as an average tall male in his 30s

 

[color_me_gone]

Not sure when I'll ctb but feel so happy I at least have a method now

Agree.
There are many on SS who feel the same way.
There is definitely a satisfaction in knowing you control your own destiny.

 

[Rolo]

I have all the the stuff to go with the nitrogen exit bag method.
The tubing is quite big and stiff, i'm afraid it will damage the bag and it's not comfortable when the bag is over the head. Has anybody encountered the same problem and found a solution?

 

[Greenberg]

Are you using standard oxygen tubing or something else?

 

[Rolo]

Are you using standard oxygen tubing or something else?

Hi Greenberg,

I bought it at a welding shop. It's for Argon, Nitrogen 13X6 mm ISO 3821 60 bar max.

 

[Greenberg]

Hi Greenberg,

I bo60 bar ught it at a welding shop. It's for Argon, Nitrogen 13X6 mm ISO 3821 max.

Got it!

Yes, it is definitely a thick and heavy hose. You have purchased a high-pressure industrial hose (rated at 870psi) which is massive overkill for the application needed. The pressure coming out of your flow regulator is between 50 to 100psi.

May I suggest that you replace it with a thin and light medical gas tubing instead, as illustrated below. They generally cost between $5 and $10. Best!

 

[Rolo]

Got it!

Yes, it is definitely a thick and heavy hose. You have purchased a high-pressure industrial hose (rated at 870psi) which is massive overkill for the application needed. The pressure coming out of your flow regulator is between 50 to 100psi.

May I suggest that you replace it with a thin and light medical gas tubing instead, as illustrated below. They generally cost between $5 and $10. Best!

View attachment 65760

Thanks for your help! I will look for a medical gas tubing.

 

[yetme]

anyone know what the nitrogen tank shelf life is?
I have mine stored in my appt for over a year now and I'm worried that it can accidently go off. Is that possible?

 

[Greenberg]

anyone know what the nitrogen tank shelf life is?
I have mine stored in my appt for over a year now and I'm worried that it can accidently go off. Is that possible?

Practically speaking, undisturbed compressed nitrogen stored away from heat and light is indefinite.

 

[yetme]

Practically speaking, undisturbed compressed nitrogen stored away from heat and light is indefinite.

I'm more worried about the seals on the tank.
I get that nitrogen is an inert gas so it can be stored indefinately

 

[Greenberg]

I'm more worried about the seals on the tank.
I get that nitrogen is an inert gas so it can be stored indefinately

Most cylinders have one or more safety-relief devices (i.e., relief valves). Since nitrogen is not a toxic gas, a cylinder failure would not necessarily be disastrous but still potentially life-threatening. One thing that you could do is to protect the valve with a tightly taped bag so that the elements (think, moisture) cannot attack the valve seals.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

anyone know what the nitrogen tank shelf life is?
I have mine stored in my appt for over a year now and I'm worried that it can accidently go off. Is that possible?

I think keeping a nitrogen tank cool below 25 degrees Celcius would be good for safety. Also there are nitrogen tank caps for sale only $10 :

nitrogen cylinder caps - Google Search

www.google.com

Thoroughbred Repl Cylinder Cap For SelectArgon,Helium,Nitrogen,Oxygen Cylinders | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Thoroughbred Repl Cylinder Cap For SelectArgon,Helium,Nitrogen,Oxygen Cylinders at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Also maybe steel gas cylinder cabinets or lockers:

 

[Thanatonaut]

Keep in mind these tanks are designed with industrial settings in mind. Think about how many times you've seen cylinders like acetylene on the back of a welding truck. They're built to withstand a lot, so keeping one reasonably out of the elements should ensure a shelf life of many years.

 

[goingrealsoon]

I have recently put together a system for a Nitrogen based Self-Deliverance Using the Inert Gas Method. I purchased an EEBD hood as opposed to the standard exit bag. The EEBD hood is designed to escape a smoke filled space in the event of a fire related emergency. We use them on the ships I work on. It has a soft neoprene collar that would act as the elastic and draw string and has ample space for the head with a window. The difference is that the gas comes directly into a mask that covers the nose and mouth, so delivery of the gas is direct, in addition to allowing the gas to fill the volume of the entire hood. This system is quite sturdy so the question of a thin plastic bag and taped on hose failure is a non issue. I am wondering if anyone has aquired this type of system and what your thoughts are on it's effacicy. My only concern is related to the material stiffness, and if by pushing the initial volume of air out will be sufficiant to allow it to be mainly filled with nitrogen prior to donning.

 

[Greenberg]

I have recently put together a system for a Nitrogen based Self-Deliverance Using the Inert Gas Method. I purchased an EEBD hood as opposed to the standard exit bag. The EEBD hood is designed to escape a smoke filled space in the event of a fire related emergency. We use them on the ships I work on. It has a soft neoprene collar that would act as the elastic and draw string and has ample space for the head with a window. The difference is that the gas comes directly into a mask that covers the nose and mouth, so delivery of the gas is direct, in addition to allowing the gas to fill the volume of the entire hood. This system is quite sturdy so the question of a thin plastic bag and taped on hose failure is a non issue. I am wondering if anyone has aquired this type of system and what your thoughts are on it's effacicy. My only concern is related to the material stiffness, and if by pushing the initial volume of air out will be sufficiant to allow it to be mainly filled with nitrogen prior to donning.

Yes, escmode has been selling eebd hoods kits recently. As they are selling them, I can only presume that the eebd hood option is effective. I noticed on their website they mentioned filling the hood first prior to putting it on. This supposedly ensures that n2 dominates and the wait time is minimized. cheers!

 

[goingrealsoon]

Yes, escmode has been selling eebd hoods kits recently. As they are selling them, I can only presume that the eebd hood option is effective. I noticed on their website they mentioned filling the hood first prior to putting it on. This supposedly ensures that n2 dominates and the wait time is minimized. cheers!

Yes, that is also my thought. I expect using a mirror as some sources suggest will aid in this process. Also I wonder if by filling the hood that the air will be entirely replaced by n2. I appreciate your timely and thoughtful feedback emensely.

 

[goingrealsoon]

What is the absolute maximum oxygen content in a nitrogen cylinder to assure effective results.

 

[Greenberg]

What is the absolute maximum oxygen content in a nitrogen cylinder to assure effective results.

Please refer to my blog entry, Aug 31st. 7% is about the maximum.

 

[goingrealsoon]

Please refer to my blog entry, Aug 31st. 7% is about the maximum.

Thanks for that....I will read further and appreciate the comprehensive anaylsis. I have a question about the relationship between the Dec 27th Update chart which shows a maximum of pre purified at <5ppm of Oxygen, and the relationship with the Aug 31st update showing at 7% one will pass out. Would you explain the coorilation? To make matters more confusing, the PPehandbook recomends < 2% using the recommended sensor...which I will have tomorrow.
Thank you very much for your support and tremendous knowledge.

 

[Greenberg]

Thanks for that....I will read further and appreciate the comprehensive anaylsis. I have a question about the relationship between the Dec 27th Update chart which shows a maximum of pre purified at <5ppm of Oxygen, and the relationship with the Aug 31st update showing at 7% one will pass out. Would you explain the coorilation? To make matters more confusing, the PPehandbook recomends < 2% using the recommended sensor...which I will have tomorrow.
Thank you very much for your support and tremendous knowledge.

The Dec 27 chart presents the commercial availability of various grades of gases by class (i.e., scientific, ultra-pure, etc.) Each class has a different purpose in the industry. Honestly, even 95% purity is sufficient.

 

[goingrealsoon]

The Dec 27 chart presents the commercial availability of various grades of gases by class (i.e., scientific, ultra-pure, etc.) Each class has a different purpose in the industry. Honestly, even 95% purity is sufficientI

I'll get the meter tomorrow and touch base with you again with my findings. I appreciate you taking the time for this dialog. BTW, the video of the pig was both encouraging and scary.

 

[Predestinated]

How much of nitrogen do you need, if you do it without a plastic bag around your head? I thought just letting the gas flow out in your car or in a very little room (mini bathroom) could be more comfortable.

 

[color_me_gone]

How much of nitrogen do you need, if you do it without a plastic bag around your head? I thought just letting the gas flow out in your car or in a very little room (mini bathroom) could be more comfortable.

Wouldn't work. The nitrogen must displace ALL the existing oxygen in the space where your head is. Anything as large as a tiny room or your car, would require an extreme amount of nitrogen, say 1000 times what a bag would require. You probably need to read the first few pages of this megathread to understand exactly how this method works.

Everybody who first comes to this thread, the first thing they want to do is get rid of the bag, me included.

 

[Greenberg]

How much of nitrogen do you need, if you do it without a plastic bag around your head? I thought just letting the gas flow out in your car or in a very little room (mini bathroom) could be more comfortable.

Here is a theoretical scenario:

If choosing the car option, if really depends on the car...

Presuming you have a compact sedan with a truck pass trunk, it is possible to have 2 x I120 cylinders (1 meter long each) release gas from the truck, giving you over 6000L of the gas total. The typical volume of a compact sedan is around 3000L so you would have a 100% margin of error.

Let us say that your combined flow rate is 100LPM (flow rate is very important here); it will take approximately 30min to fill your car with gas. You will need to leave a small gap in one of the windows to vent residual gases and leave your ventilation system in the "off" position. The most important thing here is to create a positive pressure environment.

You can reduce the time by a third to 20min if you use 3 cylinders.

The small bathroom scenario would not be as practical, as the volume would be larger than the car example. The car example is an intriguing option as the gas source is not apparent to anyone else and the enclosure can be highly controlled! Interesting idea!!

 

[Mare Imbrium]

How much of nitrogen do you need, if you do it without a plastic bag around your head? I thought just letting the gas flow out in your car or in a very little room (mini bathroom) could be more comfortable.

Such spaces are suitable for the CO method.

 

[Predestinated]

Here is a theoretical scenario:

If choosing the car option, if really depends on the car...

Presuming you have a compact sedan with a truck pass trunk, it is possible to have 2 x I120 cylinders (1 meter long each) release gas from the truck, giving you over 6000L of the gas total. The typical volume of a compact sedan is around 3000L so you would have a 100% margin of error.

Let us say that your combined flow rate is 100LPM (flow rate is very important here); it will take approximately 30min to fill your car with gas. You will need to leave a small gap in one of the windows to vent residual gases and leave your ventilation system in the "off" position. The most important thing here is to create a positive pressure environment.

You can reduce the time by a third to 20min if you use 3 cylinders.

The small bathroom scenario would not be as practical, as the volume would be larger than the car example. The car example is an intriguing option as the gas source is not apparent to anyone else and the enclosure can be highly controlled! Interesting idea!!

What does "positive pressure environment" mean?
@everyone:

1) in this thread, I read that you need 600 liters of N2. Others say you need 225 liters (not compressed). So how much do you need?
2) if 600 liters: how do you even carry this in your house? its extremely heavy