Venting My mom wants me to be “productive”

[iloverachel]

I just never wanted to grow up or be an adult in the first place. Ever since I was a kid, I always thought that I would die young and never even have to be an adult. I thought I was going to die before 18, but unfortunately, that didn't happen. I've just had a feeling that I was meant to die young. I didn't want to live past 18 but now I've set 25 as my exit point. I just don't want to live out a full life. I don't want to navigate life. I've also always wanted to be a cat instead of a human. I've never enjoyed being human once in my life

Okay, but to play devil's advocate, why should *I* have to work or contribute to the machine? Why not someone else? It's not my responsibility. I never even wanted to be human anyways. I've always wanted to be a cat. I don't want to have to participate in or contribute to society

Literally. Sadly, my parents don't want me to be a "burden" anymore. I'm not a burden on society since I don't receive any benefits or disability. Maybe I should…anyways, fuck society. I never even wanted to be a part of it anyways. I hate that I'm in it solely due to the fact that I was unfortunate enough to be human

I agree i want to be a cat too. Being human sucks

 

[ForgottenAgain]

Okay, but to play devil's advocate, why should *I* have to work or contribute to the machine? Why not someone else? It's not my responsibility. I never even wanted to be human anyways. I've always wanted to be a cat. I don't want to have to participate in or contribute to society

Because it's your life and you're responsible for your own life. Even if you were a cat, you would have to work. You'd have to hunt, clean yourself, protect yourself, find shelter, you would only be dependant on the mother cat while you were a kitten, after that it would be your responsibility to fend for yourself. It's how being alive works.

You may choose to not contribute to society. You may go to some forest, make your own tools, build your own shelter and live off of the land. It's just a lot harsher and more work than contributing to society.

It's the thing about life, if you are alive and you're an adult, no matter the species, you have to work, one way or another.

 

[derpyderpins]

Stop letting yourself frame things from her perspective, or the system's perspective, and focus on you. Elsewhere in this thread you've said going out may be the lesser evil. If so, do it. Make life as good or un-bad as possible if you won't ctb.

Do you have a doctor you go to regarding your autism? Can you bounce this dilemma off them?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Because it's your life and you're responsible for your own life. Even if you were a cat, you would have to work. You'd have to hunt, clean yourself, protect yourself, find shelter, you would only be dependant on the mother cat while you were a kitten, after that it would be your responsibility to fend for yourself. It's how being alive works.

But cats born as pets and adopted immediately as kittens likely don't have to work at all. They still have all their needs met and in most cases they even have the freedom to explore outside the house to prevent boredom. To be a house cat with a decent owner is probably the most ideal existence for any animal on this planet.

But then again, cats don't get to browse memes or play video games and if you aren't neutered/spayed, cat sex is absolutely awful especially for the female ones…..

 

[ForgottenAgain]

But cats born as pets and adopted immediately as kittens likely don't have to work at all. They still have all their needs met and in most cases they even have the freedom to explore outside the house to prevent boredom. To be a house cat with a decent owner is probably the most ideal existence for any animal on this planet.

But then again, cats don't get to browse memes or play video games and if you aren't neutered/spayed, cat sex is absolutely awful especially for the female ones…..

Those cats can have miserable lives too where they are stuck with an owner that doesn't care for their needs, where they don't have toys or things to entertain themselves with and are alone. A lot of them die to kidney cancer due to poor quality kibble and eat the same poor quality food for the rest of their lives.

Being dependant on anyone is never good, even if you're a pet. You just may be very lucky with the owner you get...

 

[sserafim]

Stop letting yourself frame things from her perspective, or the system's perspective, and focus on you. Elsewhere in this thread you've said going out may be the lesser evil. If so, do it. Make life as good or un-bad as possible if you won't ctb.

Do you have a doctor you go to regarding your autism? Can you bounce this dilemma off them?

I have a psychiatrist who I go to for Asperger's and ADHD. He sent the news about the autism program to my mom, and said that I should apply for it. I told him that I wanted to die before 25 and he said that most women live well into their 80s

But cats born as pets and adopted immediately as kittens likely don't have to work at all. They still have all their needs met and in most cases they even have the freedom to explore outside the house to prevent boredom. To be a house cat with a decent owner is probably the most ideal existence for any animal on this planet.

But then again, cats don't get to browse memes or play video games and if you aren't neutered/spayed, cat sex is absolutely awful especially for the female ones…..

I just don't like being human, so I imagine what it would be like to be a cat. The housecat life seems pretty dope. They're basically NEETs. The best option/choice is still to never even have been born at all though. It's better never to have been

Because it's your life and you're responsible for your own life. Even if you were a cat, you would have to work. You'd have to hunt, clean yourself, protect yourself, find shelter, you would only be dependant on the mother cat while you were a kitten, after that it would be your responsibility to fend for yourself. It's how being alive works.

You may choose to not contribute to society. You may go to some forest, make your own tools, build your own shelter and live off of the land. It's just a lot harsher and more work than contributing to society.

It's the thing about life, if you are alive and you're an adult, no matter the species, you have to work, one way or another.

Well, the issue is being alive then, but unfortunately, I didn't get a choice or input in it. I was born against my will. I wasn't able to consent. I never asked to be alive, and it's hard and even risky to die. I don't want to be responsible for my own life and I never even wanted to experience life at all. I wish that someone else were born instead of me. Why me? Ugh

 

[Adûnâi]

My idea is to wait and check whether artificial general intelligence changes everything in this respect in the following 2 years. If you have the ability to wait without being outright tortured and killed (the way I can be if I go outside), feel free to take this opportunity.

Also, I never understood whether you have ever tried working. Does working feel ultimately different from being absorbed in some exciting project? Or is it the case of regularity that's hard to pull off?

Of course, it all also depends on the availability of SN.

Also, could you try to prolong it for as long as you can? Maybe via lying, or friends, or being disingenuous? An imitation of work?

 

[derpyderpins]

I have a psychiatrist who I go to for Asperger's and ADHD. He sent the news about the autism program to my mom. I told him that I wanted to die before 25 and he said that most women live well into their 80s

It's good that you are seeing someone.

I told him that I wanted to die before 25 and he said that most women live well into their 80s.

I think his point is similar to mine. Yes, the machine sucks, working sucks, the fact that you have to struggle to take care of yourself may or may not be fair, it can be difficult to have relationships, etc., but it is the reality you are living in. You are a human, not a housecat.

You're locked in a room (metaphorically - it's magically sealed and there's no escape); it's messy and disorganized, the atmosphere is depressing, and the air quality sucks. It's understandable to spend some time asking 'why did this happen? Why am I here?', but at some point it would be for your own good to tidy up, arrange some decorations, open a vent, and turn on the fan for some airflow.

 

[sserafim]

My idea is to wait and check whether artificial general intelligence changes everything in this respect in the following 2 years. If you have the ability to wait without being outright tortured and killed (the way I can be if I go outside), feel free to take this opportunity.

Also, I never understood whether you have ever tried working. Does working feel ultimately different from being absorbed in some exciting project? Or is it the case of regularity that's hard to pull off?

Of course, it all also depends on the availability of SN.

Also, could you try to prolong it for as long as you can? Maybe via lying, or friends, or being disingenuous? An imitation of work?

She wants me to work to make money in order to contribute. She wants me to help pay some of the bills

It's good that you are seeing someone.



I think his point is similar to mine. Yes, the machine sucks, working sucks, the fact that you have to struggle to take care of yourself may or may not be fair, it can be difficult to have relationships, etc., but it is the reality you are living in. You are a human, not a housecat.

You're locked in a room (metaphorically - it's magically sealed and there's no escape); it's messy and disorganized, the atmosphere is depressing, and the air quality sucks. It's understandable to spend some time asking 'why did this happen? Why am I here?', but at some point it would be for your own good to tidy up, arrange some decorations, open a vent, and turn on the fan for some airflow.

Well, I wouldn't need to resort to suicide if euthanasia were legal. I don't want to be part of the machine, work, take care of myself or have any relationships. I never liked being human or even being alive at all. I don't want any parts of the human experience. I would hate to enter the struggle for survival. If there were free euthanasia, I would take it, 100%. The only reason why I haven't ctb yet is because it's risky and unreliable and also has the potential to do permanent damage. I'm sure that I want to die; it's just that dying is difficult and not guaranteed. I don't see life (especially adulthood) as fulfilling or worth living

 

[derpyderpins]

Well, I wouldn't need to resort to suicide if euthanasia were legal. I never liked being human or even being alive at all. If there were free euthanasia I would take it 100%. The only reason why I haven't ctb yet is because it's risky and unreliable and also has the potential to do permanent damage. I'm sure that I want to die; it's just that dying is hard and not guaranteed

Okay, but that's another hypothetical that doesn't deal with your situation. Euthanasia for depression is not legal. You are a human in a world where euthanasia is not legal and you don't want to ctb due to the risks. That's the situation. Asking 'why' that is the situation doesn't change it.

 

[sserafim]

Okay, but that's another hypothetical that doesn't deal with your situation. Euthanasia for depression is not legal. You are a human in a world where euthanasia is not legal and you don't want to ctb due to the risks. That's the situation. Asking 'why' that is the situation doesn't change it.

I wasn't formally diagnosed with depression; only Asperger's aka autism level 1, ADHD and social anxiety. I'm looking into Pegasos and Dignitas, but I heard that these conditions aren't enough to qualify. I wanted to send in an application, but I don't want to lose money in case I get rejected (the app costs money and you also have to pay a deposit fee I think). I'm also far too young to be approved. Exit only allows people above 50 (people who have lived out a full life) to join their organization, so I assume the same for the others. Why should you have to have lived out a full life in order to be approved though? I don't want to do this. I want to die young

 

[Adûnâi]

I'm going to say this in the most tasteful way possible. I dealt with some bad people in the property industry (UK) but even though they were greedy and terrible fuckikg people all of the ones that had children helped them either totally or enough. In your case I really really hope your mother gets some ficked up genetic code activate soon and fucks her up. I don't say this lightly but her actions, words and everything she is doing is….. it's not even human.

Giving birth to anyone is rude, the rest follows. No amount of caring for the born person is going to atone for the original sin. Conversely, demanding people to be slaves to their whims makes perfect sense, ugliness for the ugly world.

and you don't want to ctb due to the risks.

Yeah, what is riskier?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Those cats can have miserable lives too where they are stuck with an owner that doesn't care for their needs, where they don't have toys or things to entertain themselves with and are alone. A lot of them die to kidney cancer due to poor quality kibble and eat the same poor quality food for the rest of their lives.

Being dependant on anyone is never good, even if you're a pet. You just may be very lucky with the owner you get...

True, having a good owner is no guarantee but the barrier of entry for being a good cat owner is far lower than for being a good parent of a human being so statistically it's more likely you'd be born into a family that's qualified for it.

 

[sserafim]

Giving birth to anyone is rude, the rest follows. No amount of caring for the born person is going to atone for the original sin. Conversely, demanding people to be slaves to their whims makes perfect sense, ugliness for the ugly world.


Yeah, what is riskier?

Literally. Procreation is the most selfish thing that someone can do. You're bringing someone into this world without their consent and forcing them to conform and be a slave to the system for the rest of their lives. You're choosing to throw them into the struggle for survival. You're choosing to doom them to a life of work aka modern day slavery. The most egregious thing is that there is no surefire way to leave this world safely on your own terms. Euthanasia is illegal because governments and societies want people to stay alive and suffer. They want to keep us as human capital and profit off of us as long and as much as possible. After all, dead men pay no taxes. There's no money to be made off of dead people. They can't work or consume. Birth is unregulated, anyone can have children if they want to, yet death is prohibited. No one can or is allowed to die. This world is full of strange dichotomies like this. Make it make sense. The right to die should be a fundamental freedom too. We should all have the right to a peaceful and guaranteed death of our choosing. No one should have to resort to suicide

 

[Adûnâi]

Literally. Procreation is the most selfish thing that someone can do

I'm going to quote some gems from the now-late Dr. Robert Morgan's 2019's diatribes.

1.
People fear depending on others because secretly everyone knows the truth: People are scum, life is war, and the ruling principle of the world is hate. To be reduced to depending on others for the basics of life is a kind of living death. Serious injuries happen all the time in peacetime too, but for those victims there is no glory, no VA to try to set things right.

2.
You've failed to understand what I said. Hatred is much more than that. It powers the whole world. That's why the Christian lie that God is Love is such an outrageous imposture. It's a complete inversion of reality.

Hatred is present in every tick of the clock, each one of which brings you closer to cold death no matter what you do; present in every motion of every atom, which slowly increases entropy, leading inexorably to the heat death of the entire universe. Even as I write this, human activity is causing the greatest mass die off since an asteroid crashed into the Yucatan peninsula 65 million years ago. This is a world in which you are forced to kill or be killed, so hate is what keeps you alive. You manifest it each time you eat, as you must terminate other life just to keep on breathing yourself. It's present in your very guts in the form of bacteria which would hungily devour you, but for the action of your immune system, which devours them instead.

Exactly why it's sadistic. You are born with a desire to live. No choice! But life will be torn from your grasp, no matter how hard you try to hang on. You are absolutely powerless to prevent that outcome. A God who creates man with an burning desire for something he must kill to sustain, but no matter what he does must eventually lose anyway, is the ultimate sadist. That's why I say that Hate is the God of this world, and the vapid Christian God of Love, if there is such a thing, is confined to an imaginary next.

 

[Helvete]

Coming from another autist myself, I would really recommend applying for the job search! They are actually really helpful and can set you up with a good career! It sounds like if you were able to get a job and move out it would do so much for your mental sanity, and some space would probably be nice. :)

 

[derpyderpins]

I wasn't formally diagnosed with depression; only Asperger's aka autism level 1, ADHD and social anxiety. I'm looking into Pegasos and Dignitas, but I heard that these conditions aren't enough to qualify. I wanted to send in an application but I don't want to lose money in case I get rejected (the app costs money). I'm also far too young to be approved. Exit only allows people above 50 to join their organization

Gotcha.

So, while you wait for their policies to change or new opportunities to arise or to turn 50, what's the plan? You could become an activist for more lenient euthanasia, even if anonymously online, and fight the machine that way. You could save up money to submit the app (and eventually cover your travel expenses). And, you can make yourself more comfortable - as you are stuck in this existence. These things would require you to support yourself. I understand that you don't want to, but I think you should rip the bandaid off and try working.

You may be suffering from "omission bias" and/or "status quo bias." We have a hard time assigning value to things:

Say there is situation X and situation Y. X is better than Y. Let's say we ask a person in situation Y what they'd pay to move up to situation X, and they say Z. We put that same person in situation X and ask how much they'd pay to stay out of Y, they will typically say something higher than Z, because they fear the consequence. That's irrational. The question is 'what is X-Y?', but humans will give different values based on if they are going from X to Y or Y to X. Fear is stronger than aspiration, leading to bad decisions.​

Hopefully that wasn't too much gibberish. My point is that right now you have two options: stay at home or try working. One is better, and I'd say most of the advice you've gotten is that the better one is getting out of the abusive home. I think fear of change is overly-influencing you.

 

[LunarLight]

I have a psychiatrist who I go to for Asperger's and ADHD. He sent the news about the autism program to my mom, and said that I should apply for it. I told him that I wanted to die before 25 and he said that most women live well into their 80s

That's not true at all for women with autism and ADHD lol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10072169/

"It found that based on 14 variables related to health, lifestyle, education, demographics, and other factors, by age 27 years, people who had been diagnosed as having ADHD in childhood could be expected to have a 12.7-year reduction in healthy ELE and 11.1-year reduction in total ELE if their disorder persisted to adulthood."
"it was found that individuals with ASD had more than 3-fold higher rates of attempted suicide and suicide compared with the general population"

"Most women live well into their 80s". BULLSHIT. UTTER BOLLOCKS as the Britishs say. That may be true for the general population but clearly not for women with autism and ADHD.

 

[sserafim]

Gotcha.

So, while you wait for their policies to change or new opportunities to arise or to turn 50, what's the plan? You could become an activist for more lenient euthanasia, even if anonymously online, and fight the machine that way. You could save up money to submit the app (and eventually cover your travel expenses). And, you can make yourself more comfortable - as you are stuck in this existence. These things would require you to support yourself. I understand that you don't want to, but I think you should rip the bandaid off and try working.

You may be suffering from "omission bias" and/or "status quo bias." We have a hard time assigning value to things:

Say there is situation X and situation Y. X is better than Y. Let's say we ask a person in situation Y what they'd pay to move up to situation X, and they say Z. We put that same person in situation X and ask how much they'd pay to stay out of Y, they will typically say something higher than Z, because they fear the consequence. That's irrational. The question is 'what is X-Y?', but humans will give different values based on if they are going from X to Y or Y to X. Fear is stronger than aspiration, leading to bad decisions.​

Hopefully that wasn't too much gibberish. My point is that right now you have two options: stay at home or try working. One is better, and I'd say most of the advice you've gotten is that the better one is getting out of the abusive home. I think fear of change is overly-influencing you.

My mom said that she would give me money for euthanasia, but then she said that I should just use the money in my bank account to pay for it (I have some money saved up). I don't want to have support myself or to be independent though. I don't want to have to work. I have a fear of being independent and I honestly never even wanted to be an adult anyways. I think I'll send in an app to the orgs. The best option for me is miraculously getting approved for euthanasia so I can finally leave this horrible world which I never even consented to being in in the first place

That's not true at all for women with autism and ADHD lol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10072169/

"It found that based on 14 variables related to health, lifestyle, education, demographics, and other factors, by age 27 years, people who had been diagnosed as having ADHD in childhood could be expected to have a 12.7-year reduction in healthy ELE and 11.1-year reduction in total ELE if their disorder persisted to adulthood."
"it was found that individuals with ASD had more than 3-fold higher rates of attempted suicide and suicide compared with the general population"

"Most women live well into their 80s". BULLSHIT. UTTER BOLLOCKS as the Britishs say. That may be true for the general population but clearly not for women with autism and ADHD.

He meant the average woman in the US. Anyways, I would hate to live that long. It's honesty sickening. I've already endured 23 years of this torture. I can't imagine living any longer, and living for that long. I would hate to have to get old or go through old age. I don't want to reach middle age either. I don't want to reach 25, and in the ideal scenario, I won't. Hopefully I don't see September 2025

 

[LunarLight]

I'm looking into Pegasos and Dignitas, but I heard that these conditions aren't enough to qualify. I wanted to send in an application, but I don't want to lose money in case I get rejected (the app costs money and you also have to pay a deposit fee I think).

These people are just making a lot of money off our suicidal backs. They're disgusting. They're not our allies. They make a business out of our suicides.

 

[sserafim]

These people are just making a lot of money off our suicidal backs. They're disgusting. They're not our allies. They make a business out of our suicides.

The only reason why I want to go there is because it's guaranteed to work. You basically pay them to die. It sounds much more reliable than doing it yourself. They do sound disgusting though but it's less risker than trying and failing it on your own

 

[LunarLight]

The right to die should be a fundamental freedom too. We should all have the right to a peaceful and guaranteed death of our choosing

I couldn't have said better. Our bodily integrity and autonomy is a fundamental human right. Hence the right to abort for example. Why is abortion allowed in most developed countries and euthanasia in so few? We should have the right to die with dignity.

The only reason why I want to go there is because it's guaranteed to work. You basically pay them to die. It sounds much more reliable than doing it yourself. They do sound disgusting though but it's less risker than trying and failing it on your own

I fully understand. There are reliable DIY methods though. SN is one of them. But honestly, I shouldn't have to die alone in the cold of the forest. I should have the right to die peacefully in the arms of my partner.

 

[soulkitty]

Hmmmmmmm, sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm low on energy to read through the thread, but is there any way you could strike a deal with her? Like maybe doing all of the household chores, making dinner, etc.? Basically taking care of the household and running errands? Just to extend the NEET life as much as possible. As a NEET/hiki I totally get your struggles and I'm sorry you're going through that

 

[sserafim]

Hmmmmmmm, sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm low on energy to read through the thread, but is there any way you could strike a deal with her? Like maybe doing all of the household chores, making dinner, etc.? Basically taking care of the household and running errands? Just to extend the NEET life as much as possible. As a NEET/hiki I totally get your struggles and I'm sorry you're going through that

I already do chores, but she says that it isn't enough. She wants me to get a job so that I can contribute financially as well

I couldn't have said better. Our bodily integrity and autonomy is a fundamental human right. Hence the right to abort for example. Why is abortion allowed in most developed countries and euthanasia in so few? We should have the right to die with dignity.

I fully understand. There are reliable DIY methods though. SN is one of them. But honestly, I shouldn't have to die alone in the cold of the forest. I should have the right to die peacefully in the arms of my partner.

I was looking into getting N because it sounds better than SN

 

[Hotsackage]

Can u apply for some disability? Idk how old you are, not asking, but something like that to contribute might relax her

 

[derpyderpins]

My mom said that she would give me money for euthanasia, and I also have some money in my bank account. I don't want to have support myself or to be independent though. I don't want to have to work. I have a fear of being independent and I honestly never even wanted to be an adult anyways. I think I'll send in an app to the orgs.

That's my point. Your fear is keeping you from making a good choice. You "don't want to" be independent but you've never really given it a try. It might be good. If not, the consequence is that you end up back where you are. 0 net risk.

 

[sserafim]

I couldn't have said better. Our bodily integrity and autonomy is a fundamental human right. Hence the right to abort for example. Why is abortion allowed in most developed countries and euthanasia in so few? We should have the right to die with dignity.

I honestly don't understand this. The world is absurd

 

[LunarLight]

I was looking into getting N because it sounds better than SN

N is unavailable. Forget about it. It's better, certainly, but AFAIK there are no reliable vendors. There was a vendor on the DN who claimed he sold N powder last month but it was most likely a scam as it was taken off quickly. I almost fell for it tbh (and I would have spent €1200 for it lol) but a fast research on SaSu made me realize it was most likely a scam.
Other good methods similar to N would be phenobarbital or primidone, but it acts much more slowly and you would have to not be found in the next 24h, which seems impossible if you live with your mother.

 

[sserafim]

N is unavailable. Forget about it. It's better, certainly, but AFAIK there are no reliable vendors. There was a vendor on the DN who claimed he sold N powder last month but it was most likely a scam as it was taken off quickly. I almost fell for it tbh (and I would have spent €1200 for it lol) but a fast research on SaSu made me realize it was most likely a scam.
Other good methods similar to N would be phenobarbital or primidone, but it acts much more slowly and you would have to not be found in the next 24h, which seems impossible if you live with your mother.

Another member and I were discussing going to South America to find it

 

[LunarLight]

I honestly don't understand this. The world is absurd

It may change over time though. French president Emmanuel Macron opened a discussion about it. But it's gonna be slow. Plus, it may be used for an eugenic purpose. Euthanize the disabled, the elderly (the last two years of life account for 50% of health expenses in France), people who don't contribute to society (i.e., participate in the economic growth of the country and make their bosses richer). I think most people here will never experience a time when euthanasia is a fundamental right;

Another member and I were discussing going to South America to find it

Oh well, good luck then. I hope they keep selling N in South America for a while, because it's not gonna last.