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watchingthewheels

Enlightened
Jan 23, 2021
1,415
I don't know if this has come up here before, but I've been thinking about the different reasons which drive people to suicidal ideation. And since I just had a "synchronicity moment" about this while listening to an Alan Watts lecture on pain, I figure now is as as good a time as any to post it.

In the grand scheme of things, it comes back to to "flight or flight." More specifically, it comes down to physical pain or mental pain, and/or a combination of the two. But it got me thinking about how driven one has to be to overcome the SI. You have to either be in a severe state of mental anguish, or in so much physical pain that the momentary pain of suicide is better than the alternative. And again, there can be a combination of the two. And THAT got me thinking about Arthur Koestler's book THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE.

For anyone not familiar, he promotes in that book a theory of the "triunal brain", the reptilian (the oldest part), the mammalian, and the neo-cortex (the most recent part.) Now that's a bit over-simplified, as it's based on somewhat outdated science, but the general idea is still plausible. Basically, it goes that the neo-cortex, which is the seat of logic and self-awareness, was "slapped on", evolutionary, to the old reptilian and mammalian brains. Consequentially, there's a lot of miscommunication at times, or even times where the hindbrain "hijacks" the neocortex, such as when "flight or fight" responses are triggered via the hypothalamus, bypassing reason/logic.

Now there, we can speculate where the biological SI drive comes in, versus a will to die based on external environmental factors. Conversely, the body might be ill, and signaling to die, while the "spirit" (i.e. awareness) wants to live (i.e, "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"). All sorts of combinations and variations can be thought of, at this point. So then, not all suicidal ideations are created equal. Some are biological, some are irrational, some are responses to trying to live a rational life in an irrational world, others are a response to an otherwise prolonged, painful death, etc.

Thoughts?


 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic loser
Jan 26, 2021
5,743
The lesser parts of the brain will never want to die. Suicide is overpowering the garbage cow-brain with the super cool and awesome, genius human brain.
 
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watchingthewheels

Enlightened
Jan 23, 2021
1,415
The lesser parts of the brain will never want to die. Suicide is overpowering the garbage cow-brain with the super cool and awesome, genius human brain.
Fitting that the first response is from someone named "GenesAndEnvironment". :) How's that for synchronicity?
 
AQUA

AQUA

Headstone
Dec 2, 2020
301
nice hypothesis!
 
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TooMuchToBear

TooMuchToBear

Student
Jan 3, 2021
121
I see it a bit differently, but this is mere speculation. Reptilian brain seems wired for survival and primary instincts; neocortex for self consciousness and 'intellectual' intelligence. So then I think suicide could be either a result of some kind of primary urge (when impulsive, for example) in which case it would be the reptilian part overruling everything; or it could be the result of built up pain and the inability to make sense of it, which would be in my view the role of the neocortex (some kind of a more rational suicide where you have reached a logical conclusion based on what you have been through your life).
 
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watchingthewheels

Enlightened
Jan 23, 2021
1,415
I see it a bit differently, but this is mere speculation. Reptilian brain seems wired for survival and primary instincts; neocortex for self consciousness and 'intellectual' intelligence. So then I think suicide could be either a result of some kind of primary urge (when impulsive, for example) in which case it would be the reptilian part overruling everything; or it could be the result of built up pain and the inability to make sense of it, which would be in my view the role of the neocortex (some kind of a more rational suicide where you have reached a logical conclusion based on what you have been through your life).
Well, normally, yes, the reptilian brain would be wired for survival. I guess what I was thinking of when I said that the body might be ill, and signaling to die, I was thinking of when wounded or sick animals isolate themselves, as if they know it's they're time. Or, I could have even mentioned how some insects "give themselves" in reproduction, the way a male praying mantis or spider is eaten by the female, and then in some species, the females are eating by their spawn...again, that would go under "variations on a theme". But yeah, the default is survival.
 
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Mendex

Mendex

The Sleep of reason produces monsters
Jan 9, 2021
194
quote-in-searching-for-the-self-one-cannot-simultaneously-be-the-hunter-and-the-hunted-gilbert-ryle-71-84-40.jpg
 
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