Method Guns/firearms megathread

[mehdone]

I'm still working my way through reading this thread, so my apologies if my questions have already been answered.

I'm looking at buying either a Taurus 605 .357 Magnum or a Taurus Judge Tracker .45LC/.410.

It's not time for me to ctb yet, but if/when it is, I'd like to make sure the firearm I pick is the best for it.

Either of those would be a snub nose or short barrel- because they'd be used for legal concealed carry until it was time.
If/when it is time, it'll be a side shot behind the ear, because putting a barrel in my mouth skeeves me out and wouldn't be the peaceful exit I'm looking for.

I've got three questions:

1. Which would be best, the 357 or the 45?

2. What ammo would be best?
For the 357:
357 magnum hollow point?
.38 special +p hollow point?
For the 45:
45 hollow point?
45 or 410 shotshell? (ie: CCI Shotshell 45LC 150gr #9, or, Critical Defense 410 Triple Defense?)

3. Any other ammo I haven't thought of, or a different firearm that would be better suited to ctb but is also appropriate for concealed carry?

 

[leloyon]

I'm still working my way through reading this thread, so my apologies if my questions have already been answered.

I'm looking at buying either a Taurus 605 .357 Magnum or a Taurus Judge Tracker .45LC/.410.

It's not time for me to ctb yet, but if/when it is, I'd like to make sure the firearm I pick is the best for it.

Either of those would be a snub nose or short barrel- because they'd be used for legal concealed carry until it was time.
If/when it is time, it'll be a side shot behind the ear, because putting a barrel in my mouth skeeves me out and wouldn't be the peaceful exit I'm looking for.

I've got three questions:

1. Which would be best, the 357 or the 45?

2. What ammo would be best?
For the 357:
357 magnum hollow point?
.38 special +p hollow point?
For the 45:
45 hollow point?
45 or 410 shotshell? (ie: CCI Shotshell 45LC 150gr #9, or, Critical Defense 410 Triple Defense?)

3. Any other ammo I haven't thought of, or a different firearm that would be better suited to ctb but is also appropriate for concealed carry?

I reckon neither, especially if you're buying it for concealed carry too. The Taurus Judge isn't very good and .357 snub nosed is...not the best choice. I would recommend a semi-auto, personally. If you feel unsafe if you're not carrying a large caliber (even though a 380 or 9mm would do fine for your purposes) you could buy something like a 45 or 10mm, they're nothing to scoff at.
If you need a small handgun, the Glock series is universally liked by military, police and civilians alike, they make both compact handguns and subcompact (even smaller) handguns in 45 Auto and 10mm Auto.

 

[mehdone]

I'm not opposed to a 9mm, and they're certainly cheaper. Hell, the hi-point .380 ACP, .40, or 9mm semi-autos are all less than half the price of either Taurus I mentioned above.

I just want to make sure that I can conceal it, and that when it is time to ctb, it is reliable and gets the job done (so long as I aim right). That was my reasoning for a snub nose revolver.

 

[leloyon]

I'm not opposed to a 9mm, and they're certainly cheaper. Hell, the hi-point .380 ACP, .40, or 9mm semi-autos are all less than half the price of either Taurus I mentioned above.

I just want to make sure that I can conceal it, and that when it is time to ctb, it is reliable and gets the job done (so long as I aim right). That was my reasoning for a snub nose revolver.

Despite how cheap they are, a Hi-Point honestly wouldn't be the worst choice. They're known for being very reliable for what they are, and if you damage it I've heard Hi-Point has pretty good warranty and, in any case, they're cheap enough.

 

[mehdone]

Thanks.

I went ahead and ordered a Hi-Point 45ACP online.

Gotta wait to get the whole, "your order is ready!" email, and then go in and do the whole paperwork thing.

Still undecided on ammo, but +p hollow point should do the trick, yeah?

 

[leloyon]

Thanks.

I went ahead and ordered a Hi-Point 45ACP online.

Gotta wait to get the whole, "your order is ready!" email, and then go in and do the whole paperwork thing.

Still undecided on ammo, but +p hollow point should do the trick, yeah?

Yeah, should do.

 

[Thisisme373]

It suck's I'm in UK and don't have access to a firearm :(

 

[leloyon]

It suck's I'm in UK and don't have access to a firearm :(

Now, as a resident of the UK myself, I would never advise any of my countrymen to violate our sacred laws.
*cough* *cough*
Oh, sorry, have a bit of a cough. Anyway, guess I can't help ya, sorry. Dunno how I'm so diseased that my coughs were coloured though, like they have some sorta link attached...

 

[lifeisbutadream]

I'm not opposed to a 9mm, and they're certainly cheaper. Hell, the hi-point .380 ACP, .40, or 9mm semi-autos are all less than half the price of either Taurus I mentioned above.

I just want to make sure that I can conceal it, and that when it is time to ctb, it is reliable and gets the job done (so long as I aim right). That was my reasoning for a snub nose revolver.

Not very relevant anymore as i see you ordered the hi point semi automatic, but i think your original reasoning was correct. A revolver is much simpler and more reliable, especially for a person not familiar with firearms, and also for those lacking hand strength. A shotgun, however, is generally cheaper and easier to buy and by far the most effective. Not very concealable, though.

 

[leloyon]

Not very relevant anymore as i see you ordered the hi point semi automatic, but i think your original reasoning was correct. A revolver is much simpler and more reliable, especially for a person not familiar with firearms, and also for those lacking hand strength. A shotgun, however, is generally cheaper and easier to buy and by far the most effective. Not very concealable, though.

Both of the revolvers they originally considered have considerable recoil, especially if they loaded 410 into the Taurus Judge.

 

[mehdone]

I've seen firsthand the results of a shotgun to a head- it's *brutal*, and effective. But no, it's not easily concealable or easily transportable to a peaceful place where your loved ones won't have to clean up the massive mess left behind.

 

[YellowCamels2000]

Any details on the blackpowder option? Preferably shotgun, but what caliber and how much grain?

 

[venomousSSërpent74]

Despite how cheap they are, a Hi-Point honestly wouldn't be the worst choice. They're known for being very reliable for what they are, and if you damage it I've heard Hi-Point has pretty good warranty and, in any case, they're cheap enough.

that is a beautiful gun tbh

 

[leloyon]

that is a beautiful gun tbh

Yeah, everyone insults Hi-Point but I like the look of their guns. Then again, my taste in firearms is very different from the norm.

 

[DeepCD]

bump?

Am I allowed to link/post infamous Political Video as well as infamous Mississippi Man who used a Rifle/Shotgun ... so we can differentiate?

 

[leloyon]

bump?

Am I allowed to link/post infamous Political Video as well as infamous Mississippi Man who used a Rifle/Shotgun ... so we can differentiate?

You'd have to ask the mods, I would hold off until they say it's all clear.

 

[DeepCD]

You'd have to ask the mods, I would hold off until they say it's all clear.

thanks for the great advice. I'm going to PM a moderator. thanks.

 

[DeepCD]

Infamous Politician Vid: what did he use? what did he do correctly?

Spoiler: Warning! Graphic Content!

Infamous Rifle/Shotgun Vid: did he use a rifle or shotgun?

Spoiler: Warning! Graphic Content!

 

[leloyon]

Infamous Politician Vid: what did he use? what did he do correctly?

Spoiler: Warning! Graphic Content!

Infamous Rifle/Shotgun Vid: did he use a rifle or shotgun?

Spoiler: Warning! Graphic Content!

According to Wikipedia, the politician used a Smith and Wesson Model 19 revolver chambered in .357 Magnum.
There has been some debate on what gun was used in the other video, though it's generally agreed upon that it's a single-shot long gun, either a shotgun or large-caliber rifle. Personally, I can't tell, though from watching gore that features shotguns I'm thinking it was a rifle in a large caliber, from what I've seen shotguns usually (keyword being "usually", from what I'VE seen) deform the face rather than completely blow it off. Look at the pictures of Vladislav Roslyakov's corpse for a good example of this.

 

[DeepCD]

@leloyon ... good explanation on the possible differences between rifle/SG.

as for the Politician ... assuming that he planned every move, he did very well. even pointed the gun up so he couldn't get snipped? possible that he knew where to aim from outside, just in case he would have been shot to live! lol

of course this is only innocent speculation, but every move of his was pretty much almost perfect.

 

[leloyon]

@leloyon ... good explanation on the possible differences between rifle/SG.

as for the Politician ... assuming that he planned every move, he did very well. even pointed the gun up so he couldn't get snipped? possible that he knew where to aim from outside, just in case he would have been shot to live! lol

of course this is only innocent speculation, but every move of his was pretty much almost perfect.

I don't think he planned it very well, in all the time he spent reassuring people they had plenty of time to disarm him and the way he was holding it meant it would have been relatively easy to snatch it. That being said, now that you mention it, him aiming upwards -could- be intentional, seeing as how the most common way to aim a gun at oneself is to put it to the temple, which would allow someone to grab him by the elbow area. I doubt he knew exactly where to aim though, putting a gun in one's mouth is still a common depiction of suicide and most people assume that any shot to the head is instantly 100% fatal and foolproof.

 

[DeepCD]

FYI, I am not suicidal. I do not own a firearm. I just like the discussion in general. and maybe others can benefit as well.

some people say the "brainstem," others will say the "medulla oblongata." what about the "Pons"?



the point I'm getting to is ... let's say you have a handgun. if you aim for the medulla oblongata, you take the risk of not hitting other parts of the brain. but, if you aim a little higher for the Pons, maybe there's a better chance to CTB? ... because you can damage other parts of the brain at a higher percentage? - similar to The Infamous Politician Vid.

also, would it be better to hold a handgun backwards? ... or upside down? - similar to the infamous politician. which route would you take? how would you hold it? etc etc..

what are your thoughts on this? thanks for reading and being part of the discussion. looking forward for comments/questions.

 

[leloyon]

FYI, I am not suicidal. I do not own a firearm. I just like the discussion in general. and maybe others can benefit as well.

some people say the "brainstem," others will say the "medulla oblongata." what about the "Pons"?

View attachment 122250

the point I'm getting to is ... let's say you have a handgun. if you aim for the medulla oblongata, you take the risk of not hitting other parts of the brain. but, if you aim a little higher for the Pons, maybe there's a better chance to CTB? ... because you can damage other parts of the brain at a higher percentage? - similar to The Infamous Politician Vid.

also, would it be better to hold a handgun backwards? ... or upside down? - similar to the infamous politician. which route would you take? how would you hold it? etc etc..

what are your thoughts on this? thanks for reading and being part of the discussion. looking forward for comments/questions.

I've heard the brain stem is generally fatal, I suppose my worry would be how fatal. There have been cases where people have shot themselves and just ended up drowning in their own blood afterwards, bleeding out in agony... I would rather just try to go for the medula than chance it.
I would personally hold the gun backwards, like so.

 

[DeepCD]

I've heard the brain stem is generally fatal, I suppose my worry would be how fatal. There have been cases where people have shot themselves and just ended up drowning in their own blood afterwards, bleeding out in agony... I would rather just try to go for the medula than chance it.
I would personally hold the gun backwards, like so.
View attachment 122253

I also agree with using it backwards, you have more control. upside down has less control, as well as increased muscle tension/fatigue from the shoulder to the fingers. (as for the infamous politician; bc of his circumstances, upside down makes sense in that situation.)

on the other hand. if the medulla is missed ... you could MTB (Miss The Bus) and miss contact to the brain, while having major injuries below the head? (if I'm not mistaken, people have survived this way?)

of course we will consider the expansion & assume one is using a "Real JHP" (no Semi-JHPs, Special-HPs, or etc..)

as for my Positive Comments relating to the animated image above. (assuming you are right-handed) The grip is on point, right hand grasping. left hand for support, and left thumb as the puller ...

... unfortunately I do have Negative Comments unrelated to our discussion dealing with the animated image. - I would not use this angle, nor the "head/face" for any references in relation to the grip in this image.

no doubt everyone's features and locations could be different, but for the average person & according to most human anatomy images, I believe my opinionated description below would be more useful? ...

... the "Pons" seems to be centered between the nostrils & bottom of eyes ... which is also centered with the ear canal? The "medulla" seems to be centered with the mustache area aka below the nostrils? as well as centered below the ear canal or bottom earlobe?

what are your thoughts on these roughly estimated reference points? what are your thoughts about other possible damages if you MTB going for the medulla in contrast to the pons?

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I am considering using a revolver with a .357 hollow point round instead of a shotgun to leave a nicer looking body. I would point it behind my ear.

What would happen if I failed to instantly kill myself (missed the brainstem) but received no medical attention? Would I eventually die anyways?

 

[leloyon]

I am considering using a revolver with a .357 hollow point round instead of a shotgun to leave a nicer looking body. I would point it behind my ear.

What would happen if I failed to instantly kill myself (missed the brainstem) but received no medical attention? Would I eventually die anyways?

Almost certainly. You'd likely still bleed out. You'd likely be unconscious though, although I've heard of cases where people have used weaker bullets and ended up not even being knocked unconscious.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Almost certainly. You'd likely still bleed out. You'd likely be unconscious though, although I've heard of cases where people have used weaker bullets and ended up not even being knocked unconscious.

I've heard some people here say that you might not bleed out if you shot your brain in the wrong place because the brain becomes severly inflamed very quickly. Do you think that's likely and if it happens will I still eventually die from trauma?

 

[leloyon]

I've heard some people here say that you might not bleed out if you shot your brain in the wrong place because the brain becomes severly inflamed very quickly. Do you think that's likely and if it happens will I still eventually die from trauma?

I think you'd still die. You'd still have at least one hole in your head, if not two (one entry wound and one exit wound).

 

[leloyon]

Since a video I liked to post on this thread was taken down by Youtube a while back, I figured I should reupload it for anyone here.
It is a guide to getting weapons when you are otherwise prohibited from purchasing conventional firearms. It mostly applies to the US, but it still has information that might be of note to people here, particularly on black powder firearms (which I am aware can be purchased freely in at least France and Poland, not sure about other countries).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/cl4q0gmq.mp4

https://files.catbox.moe/g6y39w.mp4

(both links are to the same video, just uploaded it on two sites in case one of them shits itself or gets taken down)
(also I do not support anything he says in this video, nor do I encourage anyone to do anything with the information provided, I am merely reuploading something which I feel could be useful or interesting to firearms enthusiasts here, who for all I know simply enjoy firearms as a hobby)
Skip to 3:10 and watch from there, as the video before that doesn't really help what we're doing here (mostly the creator ranting about the government and discussing crossbows, which suck for CTB).

 

[lostforever77]

Hello all, I'm thrw_a_way1221221, or you can call me TAW122 if that's easier for you. In this thread, here is all the information in regards to ctb'ing via a gun/firearm.

Everyone who is suggesting or choosing to ctb via 'N' and 'A' and 'H', that's cool. However, this thread is about GUNS (Not biceps) so.

First and foremost. The obvious.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

According to a 1997 study from the University of Harvard, Firearms wield a 82.5% success rate. Where as drugs have a 1.5% SUCCess rate (C what I did there)? Now of course, if you're not American, it's pretty much impossible to get a reliable gun. Although black powder is a thing, and I will get into that, because you know, I think renaissance festival enthusiasts are pretty cool (It's a joke laugh). Okay. Anywho. Let's talk guns.

I think that there has been some misconceptions with guns and reliability.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/firearms/reliability (Over 90%)
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/ (90%)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm (Suicide by firearm accounted for like 49% of all American suicides in 2015)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bal-te.brain05oct05-story.html (Only 5% survive a gunshot to the head)

Drugs.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/drug-poisoning-us



5,465 OUT OF 228,366.

'But TAW122 I can get N.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06ttdrug.html

While a totally old article, it still makes valid points and has correctly predicted trends in the United States. N is being manufactured less and less, and the legal demand for it just is not there. So yes. I'm sure they still use it in Mexico and other third world countries. It is also expensive. Are you truly ready for the painstaking and irritating time of finding a dark market, finding a reliable seller, and risking criminal prosecution (such as being intercepted by customs and all that shit)?

'But TAW122, I cannot purchase guns, I R not American'

In the UK, France, Italy, Poland, Czech Republic, and Serbia, you can purchase black powder replicas without a license.

Germany and Spain won't let you. Sorry ya'll if you live there. (Try moving to another country in Europe or so if possible.)


Guns beat drugs every day of the week. Sorry guys. When it comes to reliability. This is how it works. Now. Before we get into the joys of muzzle loading and you renaissance festival lovers, we're going to discuss for everyone in North America.

If you live in the US and do not live in California, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, or New York, and you have not committed a felony, and have not broken ATF regulations. You can purchase a gun. Congratulations.

plz read the laws and make sure you follow them okay, thanks guise

If you're going to catch the bus with a firearm in the US or Canada, using anything short of a shotgun is not really reliable (unless you are experienced with firearms and know how to shoot it well, where to aim, steady hands, etc).

'But TAW122, I have a .44 revolver/only have access to a handgun.'

If you can afford a shotgun, you should REALLY consider buying one. Plus, I believe in many states long guns (aside from the anti-gun, 2A hating states) are generally easier to come by. I live in NC so I have the opposite problem (NC has a pistol purchase permit law which is a holdover from the Jim Crow era and only serves to inconvenience people to buy handguns).

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...otguns/Maverick/Maverick+88+12GA+18.5+CYL+6RD

This bad boy costs UNDER $200 (as of current price). This is a fully functional and god-tier shotgun. The coolest part about owning a shotgun is when you cock it. It's just a sexy sound.

'But TAW122, how do I buy a gun from le Internet?'



TL;DR - Your gun is shipped to a nearby guy who has a FFL. He holds the gun. You go to his place. He does the background check. You leave with your firearm.

'But ammo'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/656_2081/products_id/60359

This is the only round you need. This is overkill and generally good if you can get it. However, birdshot does work too, and I personally have #4 shot, which will still be sufficient especially at point blank range.

'But TAW122, I am a minor'

Well, you shouldn't own a firearm in the first place. Wait until you are an legal adult (18 in the US), and then move out and/or go and buy one.

'But TAW122, I have never shot one before'




Watch some youtube videos, go to a local range where you live or something.

'But TAW122, I live in a state with harsh gun laws'

Muzzle Loaders and Black Powder. READ EM.

'But TAW122, I am an adult, yet live with my parents'

If you buy the firearm online and have it shipped to your FFL, it should literally take 30 minutes for a background check to be completed. You can be in and out in 30 minutes. EZ PZ.

'But TAW122, I can't do that.'

Muzzle Loaders do not require an FFL. You can have shipped right to your front door.

'But TAW122, black powder/muzzle loading when?'



It is just a bit more complicated, but with enough guides and videos on the Internet, I believe you should be able to figure it out.

'TAW122, plz make a recommendation on a firearm for me'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ons+P1060+Kentucky+Pistol+Percussion+50cal+10

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/97060/Mossberg+PATRIOT+20+308+Y+WAL


These are just a few examples (see above).

'But TAW122, you said not to use a handgun nor a rifle'

The first example is not a handgun. It's a hand cannon. There is a difference.

'But TAW122, I live in Europe, I can't buy my guns online'

There are many gun stores in the UK that will allow you purchase REALLY overpriced renaissance festival cosplay equipment. Remember, when you go into the gun store, you're buying it because you're going to be Ollie Cromwell or Henry the 8th or something. Act enthused and passionate.

'But TAW122, I live in East Asia (China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.)'

Gun ownership in Asia, especially in East Asia is very restricted and civilian ownership is pretty much banned.

'But TAW122, I live in Oceania, (Australia, New Zealand, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc.)'

Afaik, @stargazer has mentioned that is it very difficult to legally obtain a firearm in those countries.

'But TAW122, in the UK, licenses, licenses, licenses'

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/back-to-black-72074

You must demonstrate a good reason for having one. Possession of, and intent to use, a gun that is only proofed for black powder is a good reason.

'But TAW122, you did not list my country, or give me adequate information.'

Ask away and I will do my best to answer them.

'TAW122, where do I aim?'

See diagram below:

The happy place is the Medulla Oblongata (I like to call it, the Medusa Origin just for the luls) aka the brain stem. Once it is hit and destroyed, death is instantaneous/near instantaneous.

Quick question: When looking at a 12 gauge shotgun vs a Rifle, which one is more effective. I know the differeece between the slugs of the shutgun vs the bullet of the riffle..but still have no clue how this actually impacts the outcome.